(0:00) Something of a spectacle, right? And so that people are curious, they say, (0:05) motive mobility. I’m seeing this everywhere at CES. What is it? (0:10) From ICU hallways to factory floors to the future of flying cars, (0:14) Lori Lancaster has reinvented leadership at every level.

This is a story of courage, (0:18) evolution, and bold transformation, true BLTNT style. Let’s dig in. (0:24) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast.

I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:28) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:33) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen. (0:38) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, (0:42) and the journeys that inspire us to think differently.

If you’re on the lookout for (0:45) insights to propel you forward, stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration (0:49) on your next BLTNT move, you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in. (0:54) All right.

Welcome to this episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt Loria, (0:58) and I’m happily sitting next to Lori Lancaster. So thank you, Lori, for being here.

(1:03) Well, thanks for inviting me. Very exciting. (1:05) It is very exciting.

You’ve said you’ve never been in a room like this before. (1:09) Well, I’ve been in a room about this size before, but not a podcast room. (1:15) Mostly ICU rooms? (1:16) I said it’s like an ICU room.

I’m looking at a lot of cords on the ground, a lot of machines, (1:22) a lot of weaving in and out.(1:23) Okay, good. So that’s why you’re so comfortable.

(1:26) Excuse me. So I gave this really cool, I thought, really cool, cold opener about you, (1:34) and titling this one, Fearless Caregiving, Factory Lines, Flying Cars, The Ever-Evolving (1:40) Life and Leadership Journey of Lori Lancaster. So no pressure, but this better be good.

(1:47) Oh, I know. I know. My husband’s like, oh my gosh, you’re in a podcast.

You’re going to do (1:51) so great. It’s going to go viral. I’m like, you know, it can go viral for like negative (1:55) reasons.

COVID went viral too. (1:58) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

(2:00) Well, I think everybody’s going to be really excited about this because we love talking(2:05) about folks who have been bold, done something different, tried something new. And boy,(2:12) you’ve really reinvented yourself a few different times through your working career. And that’s not (2:17) even thinking about that you’re a mom and a wife and a sister and all these other things, but (2:22) kind of three distinct career paths.

So I can’t wait to get talking about that with you. (2:30) Where would you like to start? (2:32) Oh, I can start wherever you want to start. (2:35) Okay, good.

(2:36) That’s what I thought you were going to say. (2:37) Listening to that, I’m like, maybe it’s the life and crazy times of Lori Lancaster. (2:41) I like that one.

That’d be fine. We have plenty of creative license. We can do whatever we (2:46) want to do here.

So one thing I definitely want to make sure that we get talking about (2:52) is for those people who don’t know you, let’s actually just say what it is that you’re doing (3:00) where you’re working today. You’re the president of… (3:03) So I am vice chairwoman at Dakota Integrated Systems in vice presidential role of the Rush (3:10) Group of Companies, which was started by my sister, Andra Rush, way back in the day. And (3:18) probably going to get into that a little later on, but I came to help her out 14 years ago.

(3:24) And so I spend primarily my time with Dakota Integrated Systems, vice chairwoman. And then (3:31) we have started up Emotive Mobility. That is another company we’re starting kind of adjacent (3:37) to the automotive work that Dakota does.

(3:40) And what we’re going to… This is the little teaser so that people will listen to the whole(3:43) thing, is that you guys are going at this so hard that you’re actually going to be at CES this (3:50) year in Las Vegas, and not just in a 10 by 10 booth, but you’re… So you’re not always known (3:57) as the person to just go buck wild spending money. (4:02) Well, no, I like to spend it thoughtfully and carefully. We’re very philanthropic.

I will say (4:07) that. But I said, if we’re going to do an opening in CES and kind of a reveal party, then we need (4:17) to make it something of a spectacle, right? And so that people are curious, they say, (4:22) Emotive Mobility, I’m seeing this everywhere at CES. What is it? So I felt like a bigger booth (4:30) would help to really draw people in and get the curiosity going and help explain who we are.

(4:36) That’s excellent. So I would love to get a little bit of the backstory here, because you(4:43) have had what I would call a career arc that is pretty special. Everything does build upon… (4:50) Each step builds upon itself.

And so it really kind of puts you very well suited to be exactly (4:55) where you are today. But talk about where you started. And let’s just… We’ll do the college.

(5:02) Start with college and the service and things like that, because I think people should know (5:07) kind of the quick zigs and zags that you’ve made and things like that, that I got to hear about. (5:11) What does this crazy lady get here? So I come from a family. So there’s four girls.

My father (5:19) had four girls. And later in life, they adopted our younger brother from Russia. But that was (5:25) later on.

So I grew up with three sisters. And there’s quite an age difference between us. I (5:31) often joke that the parents I had were much different than the parents they had.

My oldest (5:38) sister, I think my mom was 18 when she had her. So there’s age gaps between me and my sisters, (5:46) eight years, 10 years, and 14 years. So I grew up kind of almost an only child, because a lot of (5:51) them, most of them were out of the house.

But I can remember growing up seeing Andra, and that’s (5:57) sister I work for now, filling out her college applications at the kitchen table and being the (6:02) first one in our extended family to go to college. She went to the University of Michigan. And so (6:09) from a young age, she was always a role model for me in that way.

I knew that I wanted to go to (6:16) college. School was, I was a high achiever in school, knew that was my path. I never wanted to (6:25) be a burden on my parents.

So I researched it. I said, how can I go to college but not have to (6:33) have them pay for it? And I didn’t want to go into debt, because it’s a little late with the clock (6:38) there. So I looked at the service academies.

I’m like, I was reading an article, and it talked (6:45) about Air Force Academy, West Naval Academy, they pay you to go to school. And they’re really (6:51) considered a top-notch education. Oh, that’s the way to go.

This was like in eighth grade. So (6:57) crazy even as a little kid. So I set that as my goal.

And I was laser focused on that. I said, (7:04) I’ll go to the Air Force Academy. I’ll get my pilot’s license.

Maybe I’ll go to NASA. That’s (7:13) the path I could go down. So I set down that path, achieved that.

With that came other (7:21) opportunities that I never really explored, because I was laser focused. So yeah, I went to (7:27) the academy. I was there like two weeks.

I call it summer camp, kind of weight loss camp. And (7:33) that’s where I met my husband Kevin. So fast track MRS there in two weeks.

But he had just (7:40) given me his number and said, hey, can you send me some Michigan gear? Because he knew my plan (7:44) would go to U of M. So you only went there for two weeks, and then you transferred to U of M? (7:49) Yeah, I had received a full ride from U of M. So that was fortunate. It kind of achieved my (7:55) original goal in getting out at the academy. I’m like, listen, this is everything they said it (8:03) would be.

It is. It is everything they said it would be. But there was a lot of self-reflection (8:08) saying, why are you here? And I’ve learned, and I don’t know if it’s my Native American heritage, (8:15) but when the universe talks to you, you better listen.

And I knew I was supposed to be at the (8:23) academy, but everything was saying, you’ve got to go. This is great. You achieved your goal, (8:28) but really, it’s not for you.

Amazin’ Blue, we’re calling. (8:34) I know. So my family’s like, what do you mean you’re coming home? This is what you’ve been (8:37) working for.

I’m like, this is the right decision for me. I know it. I feel it.

And so in the (8:45) looking back, I mean, you knew without equivocation that it was the right move? (8:50) It was the right move to go and the right move to leave. I felt it strongly. And I know others (8:57) do.

And I always felt like if I stayed, I can do it. It wasn’t an ability issue. It was just like, (9:04) this is where I’m supposed to be.

But hindsight, I’m going to marry 35 years in December, (9:11) and that’s where I met my husband. I’m like, well, maybe we’re supposed to go for that. (9:16) Of course.

Yeah, that’s great. (9:17) I love the Adjustment Bureau movie where it’s like, the universe is always tweaking you to get (9:22) you where you need to be. So I say that every time I miss a train.

I wasn’t paying attention. That was (9:29) the Adjustment Bureau. From doing this though, I mean, and I think I say it in almost every episode (9:33) is that the thing that always comes through with everybody that I talk to is that the person (9:39) sitting next to me is always doing exactly what they’re, geez, how do I say it? (9:49) All of your experiences have built up to have you be exactly where you are right now, right? And (9:56) you look back and you go, hey, I had the guts to leave when it felt right to leave.

And (10:02) your husband came out of that, your education came out of that. And then after that education, (10:08) what came from your U of M education? Was that was where you went into nursing from there? (10:13) Well, I was a political science degree. I later went back to school and got my nursing degree.

(10:18) Okay. I should have said it’s four different careers then. (10:21) Yeah, you know that.

Why stop at three when it can be four. (10:26) So where did you think you were going to go with the poli-sci and what did you? (10:30) I was thinking I was going to go to law school for that. I talked to a lot of lawyers (10:34) before I did that and they’re like, oh God, don’t do that.

So I didn’t, I pivoted. (10:42) And so, you know, we had gotten married and I had had some, we had three children who are now, (10:48) I don’t know what to call them because they’re not children anymore, but (10:52) they’re great and they’re off in the world doing wonderful things. And, (10:57) um, you know, had been, uh, moving around a lot and was in Boston working in critical care nursing (11:05) at Mass General Hospital before I came to work with my sister, Andra in automotive.

And, and (11:12) I, our oldest at that time had just started at U of M and we had come back to take him, (11:19) you know, drop him off for his freshman year. And I was talking with my sister then about, (11:25) you know, I think I’m going to make a change at a nursing. Maybe I’ll go back to school, (11:30) get my, you know, CRNA degree.

And that’s, that’s very daunting, you know, but I’ve been accepted. (11:37) And, um, so I think I might make a change. It’s time.

She’s like, oh, well you want to make a (11:45) change. You should come work for me. And I said, what are you talking about? I said, I don’t know (11:51) anything about what you do.

And she’s like, no, it’s, it’s people, it’s problem solving. It’s (11:57) critical thinking. It’s all the things you have, the rest you can learn.

And, um, she’s like, I (12:03) have these three companies now I’m spread way too thin. You know, when I look at succession planning, (12:08) I expect it for my people, but I look behind me and I don’t see, you know, anyone that’s wants (12:14) to step in that role. So, no, you come and you do it and you like it.

That’s great. If you don’t, (12:20) you can be our, our nurse on the shop floor and give a, you know, vaccinate. So, you know, I did (12:29) my husband being a pilot, he could make that move.

And, and so Ron, what year, what year was this? (12:34) Was this the 2014? Did you say? Yeah. So at the end of 2013, we moved and I started January of (12:40) 2014. That’s about when I pivoted and got into this business.

So yeah. Well, what did you do (12:45) before that? Now your business now is, is it solutions and cybersecurity. Yep.

So we, we, (12:51) we help out, um, we help out companies, um, mostly those in the middle market. So not, (12:57) not quite the Fords of the world, but also not the kind of single person office type of (13:02) organizations. And we help them with everything from managed it, where we come in and take care (13:07) of all or a portion of their technology to just simply selling them the hardware and software (13:13) that they need to all of the cybersecurity, uh, needs that they have.

So we, we do all of that. (13:19) Yeah. Do you do stuff in AI? And we do.

Yep. Yep. So our, our, our chief information security (13:24) officer is also our head of AI.

So we do some AI consulting, uh, as well. That’s kind of the (13:29) budding area of our organization. It sure is.

I mean, we’re trying to figure out like, you know, (13:33) how we use it to, to make our, our team, you know, everyone’s saying, Oh, we have so much more to do. (13:41) So I’m like, well, how can we do it smarter? And I, we have tools in AI that would, you know, (13:47) allow us to do that once, figure that out and get over the fear of just, just play with it. See what, (13:53) what comes out of it, what you can do with it.

It’s interesting to be in this kind of this, (13:56) this playground time, right? I mean, there’s certainly some rubber meeting the road. Um, (14:01) definitely in our industry, there is, there has been for a while on the cybersecurity side. I mean, (14:05) the bad guys have been using it for a while.

Yeah. So the good guys have created a lot of (14:09) technology to be, uh, to be thwarting that, but it’s also creating a cybersecurity nightmare (14:14) because we’re in this playground time where, you know, um, uh, forward thinking leaders like (14:20) yourself are saying, Hey, let’s figure this out. Let’s play with this and giving, giving, (14:24) uh, the open ability for employees to start trying it, to try to hack their job and things like (14:29) that.

But now all of a sudden we have this other cyber risk of now we’re putting all this data (14:34) into these systems that we don’t know where the data’s going and how are we protecting that? And (14:38) so that’s, that was where it made the logical sense that our cybersecurity and AI division is (14:44) currently together in the same, the same silo. That makes sense. Yeah.

Cause I’ve challenged (14:49) the it team. Like, you know, we’ve got to educate the team on what’s okay to put out and open AI (14:55) and what you have to have, you know, your arms around your walls around to protect it. (15:03) They’re going to see a whole bunch of new technology that’s emerging on how to protect (15:07) that.

And because we can only say it so much, right. And then we need the, we need the guardrails(15:12) put up with the technology. So, well, I appreciate that kind of work because that’s the kind of work (15:17) we do.

Good. Good. Well, thanks.

Yeah. Thanks for that. Um, and we met just, uh, just a little bit (15:23) of quick, quick history.

So we met cause we both do some work with, with cranes, Detroit, right. (15:28) Doing advertising and doing, uh, different events that we sponsored together with them. And so we(15:33) met, uh, met at opening day with, with cranes this year.

Yeah. It seems like a million years (15:39) ago that opening day. So there’ll be another one around the corner.

So it’s great how that network (15:47) just kind of brought us together to, uh, to be able to have this conversation. And then, uh, (15:51) and then Todd from your company has been, been great at connecting us and making sure this (15:55) happens. So he’s good at pushing me outside my comfort zone.

He’s pushing me outside my comfort (16:01) zone too. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Now all of a sudden I’m looking into CES more and thinking, man, (16:07) why am I not there? That’s what I wonder. Why are you not there? Be careful. You’ll have a giant (16:13) booth.

Yeah. 50 by 80 booths. A big old price tag to go with it.

So when, when you came over 2014, (16:24) what did you start to do? Um, well, that’s a great question. Like the, like the consultants (16:30) from the office office was an office space, you know, like, what is it that you do here? (16:34) I know that was a question I got. So what do you do, (16:38) Lori? It’s like, well, that’s a great question.

Yeah. So, you know, when I came to work for the (16:46) rush group of companies, you know, at that time, my sister and a lot of people are familiar with (16:52) her story, but in case you’re not, she started, she was a nurse. So I joke often I followed in (16:58) her footsteps without really ever meaning to follow in her footsteps.

It’s kind of how it (17:03) happened. I talked about her going to U of M and I went to U of M and then her degree from there (17:09) was in nursing. And then I ended up getting a nursing degree later on and then, um, coming to (17:15) work with her companies.

So I feel like it’s kind of paved that path there and I’m walking down it. (17:22) Um, but I came to work with her cause she had rush trucking still from that in 2001, (17:28) she had started a joint venture with Magna, which is Dakota integrated system. So that company’s (17:34) been around 25 years now.

And then in 2012 timeframe, she started a joint venture with (17:43) Farisha, CF or via, however you want to say it, um, which was Detroit manufacturing system. (17:50) So she was spread pretty thin. And you know that we had Bruce Smith and Tom from DMS have (17:57) actually been in this room.

They’ve been good stewards of the baby there doing great things. (18:04) Yeah. Great people.

And they sure are. And, um, so I came to work and I spent initially (18:11) probably that first year, many times, a lot of my time at DMS, but what was, what I tried to do (18:19) was, you know, if we had best practices at one company, it often mystified me when I, (18:26) you know, inserted myself in meetings, which I had to do initially on, it’s like, you know, (18:31) opening doors. Oh, here’s where the meeting is.

I didn’t get the invite, you know, just invite (18:37) myself. Um, you think that was by design? I think people were probably maybe not, you know, she’s (18:44) the owner’s sister, so she’s probably a spy and she carries around that notebook all the time. (18:50) I’m just trying to like, learn the language here.

So (18:53) if you’re a real spy, I think maybe you wouldn’t have told them that you were her sister. (18:57) Right, right, right. Yeah.

So for sure. Try to keep that on the low, but, um, so yeah, (19:03) if we had best practices at one company and then another company was, you know, (19:08) running into a challenge that we’d already solved, it just mystified me why it’s like, (19:13) why aren’t we talking with each other, helping each other? It’s like, let me help connect you (19:18) with somebody in the family of companies. That’s how we run it.

And, you know, one team, (19:25) let’s figure it out together. So that was initially, you know, kind of that role in (19:31) that umbrella company is, um, vice president of the rush group. Were you able to break down (19:36) some barriers by kind of, uh, going over top with the umbrella basically? Yeah, for sure.

I mean, (19:42) it helps to get people in a room and talking and, uh, you know, I hosted early on when I came, (19:48) I used to host this, I’d call it a summer social, which I brought all the company leadership (19:52) together. We did it at my house and they really got to like get face to face with each other. (19:57) So I think that helped to, to, to bridge that because, you know, it was, it’s, it, it amazes (20:05) me and we still struggle with it today.

You know, if people are in a challenge, of course, (20:10) you want to always try to solve it yourself first, but there’s no shame in asking for help (20:15) or raising your hand or saying, Hey, I need a little extra assistance. I mean, oftentimes, (20:21) you know, that’s, as you know, as a leader of a company, that’s what we’re there for. (20:25) We’re there to help remove roadblocks and, and, and help you get your best work done (20:30) and solve any problems that you’re having.

Well, I think that, you know, where you were sitting and (20:35) this, this comes from a, one of the mentors that my, is my brother’s mentor. And then, (20:40) then I got, I got a lot of benefit from him as well, a fellow named Larry short. (20:44) And Larry would always talk about the cone, the leadership cone and the person (20:47) sitting at the top, the CEO has a view down from that cone to essentially everything in (20:54) the organization through, through their lens.

Right. And everyone else sits at a different (20:59) area of the cone. So they, they don’t know what is happening next to them per se, (21:04) because their cone is going down from where they are.

They don’t know exactly what’s happening (21:07) above them. And so what I feel like when you, when you talk about that is that you had a perch (21:13) on the cone here that was able to see down in a unique way and then be able to break down the, (21:19) you know, break down what you saw was, or, or bring together what you saw was missing. (21:23) Oh, we have the same problem over here with this group.

You know, we can apply the same principles (21:27) to fix it right over here. Got to get you guys talking. Why? Because on a day-to-day basis, (21:32) you can’t see from this, you know, from this vantage point.

So I think that’s great. (21:39) Even though you were a spy, right? So spies can still do good things. (21:43) I had one, one plant manager really, he really knew how to manage up and he was funny.

He thought, (21:52) oh, well, I’m going to call like a 4.30 AM. We’re going to like walk the plant type of thing. And (21:57) you know, he was very surprised when I was there, like, oh, you’re here.

I’m like, yeah, (22:02) you said this is when the meeting was going to be. Why wouldn’t I be here? And it’s like, (22:08) buddy, I work the night shift. Yeah.

You’re not going to scare me. So yeah. (22:15) How did, how did people deal with, and how did you deal with, you know, the, the whole, (22:20) oh, this is the, this is the owner’s sister, or this is the owner’s sister, a nurse, (22:24) you know, what does she know? How did you deal with that? Both, you know, on the internal side (22:29) and on the external side, you know, feeling that feeling those pressures? (22:34) Well, I think, you know, you have to earn people’s respect.

I mean, you can’t just walk in there and, (22:40) you know, think you can just tell them how to do your job, right? You have to, you have to sit back. (22:46) I took time to learn. You had to learn the language.

We talked about that a little bit. (22:51) Um, and you have to show up, right? You can’t just come in there entitled, (22:57) you know, because I’m related to ownership. So give me an office and, you know, don’t give me (23:04) anything to do.

That’s not how you show up. You’ve got to show up, roll your sleeves and get in the (23:11) fray. And I think you do that enough.

And people are like, oh, legit. She really wants to be here. (23:18) And, you know, they will share and you earn trust that way.

And, um, so that’s what I did. (23:26) I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the knock. When an employee knocks on your office door and (23:30) says, got a minute? And you immediately know it’s some sort of IT incident, but Oxium IT can help.

(23:36) Whether you’re having a problem, need consulting, an upgrade, or a managed IT approach, (23:40) they focus on preventing cyber attacks and proactive solutions that deliver results. (23:45) My friend, Matt Lauria and everyone at Oxium are ready to help before or after you get the knock. (23:52) Visit Oxium.com and let Oxium IT help you outsmart chaos.

(23:59) Great. And what were, so what was the, what were the learnings from, okay, so you learned a thing (24:05) or two in critical care. Yeah.

Then what, how, what did you, what did you apply from there? (24:09) Would you say, you know, that was like, oh, this cross industry value, right. That you brought, (24:15) what would you say that was? Well, it was, it was interesting, right? So I came, I, you know, (24:21) I would get on these calls. I wouldn’t know a lot what was going on, but we would have these (24:26) morning calls, which all the plants would call in and they would talk about what happened the day (24:30) before and any issues they had, maybe a quality concern or what have you.

And, and so I would get (24:37) on these calls and not listening. And then I had one plant that said, oh, we had a code blue (24:44) yesterday at our plant. And I was like, oh, I know what this is.

I’m from healthcare. So I was, (24:51) you know, get off mute and say, oh, well, did you get the, the AED? Did they call 911? What was the (24:57) outcome for the patient? And they’re like, Lori, what are you talking about? It’s like we, a code (25:04) blue, you know, we almost shut a plant down because we didn’t have a part. And I was like, (25:10) oh, so that’s your code blue here? I said, oh, we’re going to be okay.

It’s going to be okay. (25:18) But I would imagine that today you think a code blue in this industry is, it’s a pretty big deal. (25:24) It is a big deal.

I have learned that it’s a big deal and you really don’t want that to happen. (25:28) And it might be your own life that’s at risk if you do cause that. (25:35) Um, when you, uh, so, so 2014, then, you know, you speed up and get into COVID.

I would imagine (25:43) that there was some value that you brought to the organization, you know, from your history. (25:48) Were they happy to have a nurse on the team that they could call 24 seven and say, hey, (25:54) I think I have this issue or that do I have to send it? It’s like, no, no, calm down. (25:59) We’re mitigating risk.

And, and I think that was very, I was very busy during that time because (26:05) there was a lot of uncertainty and people trying to understand, you know, the CDC guidelines that (26:10) were changing constantly. And, and, you know, we were in an industry, of course, automotive, (26:16) we’re back to work. I mean, and what was your title by that time? What were you, (26:20) what were you doing exactly at that time? I was, um, vice president at Dakota still, (26:26) you know, the rush group vice president, of course.

And, um, you know, I had taken over (26:31) the health and safety aspect of that as well. I mean, definitely in the day to day operations (26:38) aspect. Um, I had moved into the president role, I think in 2021 after that, but, um, 2020 COVID, (26:46) that was, you know, we, we did very well at the plant level.

Um, we didn’t have any fatalities (26:53) or any major outbreaks. So I was really proud of how that’s, you know, came together, followed the (27:00) guidelines and really kept our people safe. Yeah.

That was a tricky, tricky time. So I bet that was, (27:06) uh, it probably helped to have a little bit of healthcare experience under your belt. We (27:10) didn’t have that here.

So I did more of the panic. I know, I know it was always, (27:15) there was a lot of coaching for sure. It’s like you never get a hundred percent risk out of the (27:20) out.

So, so yeah. Um, what was the impact with the supply chain at that time for you guys and(27:30) how did you navigate that? Well, at that time, 2020, it’s like, oh great COVID’s lifting. We(27:41) can, um, you know, things are going to be rosy again, but, and, and of course we had the chip (27:49) shortage and then the labor crisis.

And I guess, I guess my question is how that affected you guys (27:54) then in, in what you, what you build. Cause what were you building at the time? Uh, so we build, (28:00) um, suspension systems for like the, the grand Cherokee and explore or the GM products out of(28:11) Lansing. And so we do that overheads and instrument panels.

So the chips are in all of those (28:17) vehicles. So when volumes are down, you know, that just affected us dramatically along with (28:22) every other supplier. Um, and then there was a huge push right after that for, you know, the, (28:30) to move into EVs, the OEMs were pushing suppliers to that.

So, you know, we had to be very strategic (28:38) around those decisions and where to deploy our capital for new programs. So that was key. Um, (28:46) how has that been though, as from the whipsaw effect of that, of the, the EV push to now, (28:51) not so much of the EV push.

What, what, what have you guys done with that? (28:56) Well, you know, we, when that came, when we had opportunities, um, for the EV, we were strategic (29:03) on what we did bid for. And some, we just said, no, we’re okay. So, I mean, I thought our poor (29:12) sales guy was going to fall over or crying, but I’m like, we’re not going to do the F-150 lightning.

(29:19) Sorry. He’s like, why? I’m like, I’m not the burden of, of all of that capital investment(29:27) with no backstops. I can’t believe the volumes.

There’s no history for that. (29:32) Right. And so it turned out to be the right decision.

I mean, you had, (29:37) we had to be strategic on what, when we went into the, I mean, we support some EV vehicles now, (29:43) but we didn’t do it back then. We took a pause and a step back, which, you know, (29:49) thankfully that was the right move for us then. Um, but at the time it was very scary.

It’s like, (29:57) are we cutting ourselves out of this whole, you know, opportunity? (30:02) Cause all of a sudden you say no on one project, then nobody comes back to you for the other (30:06) projects. You know, you’re bidding so early in the process, you know, three or four years before(30:12) the programs actually start and starting to invest that capital then I, I worry, worry for(30:21) those that took that risk. I didn’t want the company to have that risk.

So we took a pause (30:29) there and it was the right move now that we have the hindsight to know that we were able to grow in (30:34) other areas, which is good. Were you able to take some of the learnings though, um, along the way (30:38) for any of the EV projects that you did do is that, was that, was that some of the catalyst (30:43) into Emotive, the other company that you’ve, that you’ve formed? (30:47) It, you know, that Matt started when I first came, right. When I first came in there teaching (30:52) me the language and, and one of the first lessons I learned was, Oh, this is automotive.

So you need (30:58) to understand, you know, how the industry works. You know, it’s very cyclical and usually about a (31:04) seven year cycle. You know, we, it rises real well and then we’ll have a little peak and valley (31:09) and, and I was always challenging team.

Well, why aren’t we using our core competencies that we do (31:15) so well in automotive? They can translate to other industries, adjacent industries. I mean, we, (31:22) we do, um, value added manufacturing for our OEM partners. You can do that for in healthcare.

You (31:30) can do that in aerospace, do it in a lot of different industries. And, um, you know, the(31:39) team said, Hey, that does make a lot of sense. They just didn’t know how to get there.

I mean, (31:45) you take a lot of, you know, diehard, a hundred percent automotive people and try to get them to (31:50) think that way or see how that can translate. It was very difficult and we didn’t seem to get (31:57) any traction. And, um, at that time, you know, you had talked about Bruce Smith and his organization.

(32:05) We had sold DMS in 2018 and we had sold Rush Trucking in 2020. And at that time, you know, (32:15) we were kind of, you know, we had divested of those and we were Dakotas. We have a great company (32:23) culture and people come and they, they love working for the company.

And so we had a lot (32:29) of leaders that were there for a very long time. And that is great. They, they were great stewards (32:35) of the company, but it came time for them to retire.

And in 2022, we kind of, we had a transition (32:41) with a lot of, um, our senior executive leaders that were hitting retirement age. And it just (32:47) seemed like they were retiring one another. So with that change, there came opportunity.

So, you know, (32:54) as we looked for people to come and, you know, I was president at that time. So I looked to bring (33:01) people in to, to help in those positions. I was able to find individuals who had some automotive (33:07) experience, but really had some strong experience in adjacent markets.

So I brought in a CEO. (33:15) Okay. That’s when I moved into the vice chairwoman role and brought in Aaron Rivers.

So he’s our CEO (33:21) at Dakota and automotive. He is able to, he has experience in automotive, but he has experience (33:29) in those adjacent industries like aerospace and the energy fields. So that’s been really (33:37) pivotal in our transformation.

So you kind of had like, um, I mean, I’m just putting this together (33:42) right now for myself. Um, it’s not in my notes, but you, you, you had a few different things (33:47) happening. You had a retiring workforce, which allowed the culture to maintain, obviously, (33:54) because you’ve been in business for quite some time, but also had that, the changing of the (33:58) tides able to bring in some new, new blood, right.

Um, you had the learnings of, Hey, we’ve, we’ve (34:05) played around with Evie and other technologies. So we’ve, we’ve got some technical know-how here, (34:10) but you then realized that you had to, um, actually put those in two different separate (34:18) pillars, right? Because there was still some of that. This is, this is the, the DNA of automotive (34:24) and this is the DNA of something else.

Is that why you did that? That’s a pretty good way to put it. (34:30) Right. And so as we look to, to build out a mode of mobility, um, you know, we have those core (34:37) principles we learned from automotive, right.

And, and so we take that and we put it into, (34:44) we have some intellectual property there. We’re looking at the energy space and how we can help, (34:50) you know, um, energy companies make smart transformers. And so we have some technical (34:56) capability around that, that we are putting to use.

I’m very excited for that because we need (35:03) it as a country, as, as we look to try to push EV and electric vehicles forward. And it’s really (35:11) a good answer for our sustainability of our planet, right? We have to have the infrastructure (35:18) to support that. And right now in the United States, our infrastructure is aging.

That’s (35:25) no secret to anybody. So trying to take it a step back and saying, how can we solve that problem? (35:32) So we can make the EV successful over here, I think led to us looking at, you know, (35:38) building transformers and being able to really get that infrastructure where it needs to be (35:43) in the United States, help to be a solution provider for that and make them be smart is kind (35:50) of key. That’s one of the things we’re doing at Emotive Mobility.

And we’ll show that at CES. (35:56) Great. You had, you had talked about being a value-added manufacturer.

So, so value-added (36:03) manufacturer and then mobility. So those are, can you explain kind of what the, what the difference (36:09) is between the two? Because the, the piece that I want to make sure that we share here, because I (36:14) heard this from you the other day is that, and you just mentioned it now, but we didn’t, we didn’t (36:20) totally grab onto it. You have IP, you have intellectual property, you have something that (36:24) you guys have developed and created in this, in this side of the house, in the mobility side of (36:30) the house.

But before we go into that, what is a value-added manufacturer? So a value-added (36:37) manufacturer is where, you know, it’s what we do very well at Dakota today, right? We, we work with (36:44) our OEM customers, our automotive customers, and we’re pretty much an extension of their plant. (36:50) And we can take, you know, like thousands of parts and add to the, add, put them together, (37:00) right? Assemble them into a component, complex component that we can chip it right then. So we, (37:07) we manufacture that whole thing together and give it to the plant to just pop it on, (37:12) a big leg of piece.

Right, and just in time too. Just in time, just in sequence for that. (37:17) We do that as well.

So we, we do that and we do it well. And, but in the meantime, we do, (37:25) you know, as we look to the mobility piece of it and trying to, you know, push, push forward that (37:34) way. You know, we’ve come up with some ideas around the EVs, the energy transfer, how you (37:44) propel vehicles, how you can take, you know, a vehicle’s energy that it’s not using, (37:50) but creating and is going to waste and almost recycle that within the vehicle to power it.

(37:57) So we have some patents around that, that we’re really excited about. (38:02) Interesting. So you take the manufacturing plus the, plus the design capabilities, (38:06) the engineering capabilities.

And now with Emotive, you can work with a company, (38:10) doesn’t have to be as big as a large OEM, like, like Chrysler or Ford or General Motors. (38:20) This can be things like what you’re showcasing at CES, which are the, the flying, the drones, (38:25) the flying car part. Yeah.

We should probably talk about that. (38:29) So we can integrate all that together. Right.

You know, the, the, you know, the technology pieces, (38:36) you know, along with the manufacturer and, and how you can take a product or work with a startup (38:42) that has an idea, but they don’t know how to manufacture to scale. And they don’t know how (38:47) to follow the rigors that you need to be in an automotive space or in an aero space, space (38:55) to do that. So, yeah, we are showcasing, we have a partnership with an EV talk company.

(39:03) So that’s electric vertical takeoff and landing. So it looks like a flying car and it can,(39:09) some of them, it’s almost like a big drone, but it really holds people. So that’s the car part.

(39:15) It looks like a car when you’re in the inside and you know, you can deliver goods and services that (39:21) way you can deliver people that way. So when you look at use cases, there’s airlines that are (39:30) looking at that for like, how can we shuttle between going from you land in, you know, LaGuardia, (39:38) but you have to connect to Newark. It can take, that can be hours where we could just put you (39:43) in a VTOL and get you over there.

Like it’s a shuttle at the, like you’re getting on the tram (39:48) at the airport. So that’s, you know, a use case. But we’re working with a company coming out of (39:55) Israel and they’re doing their testing, the air force and the FAA.

And once they come, we will (40:01) help them, you know, to integrate, you know, their technology with our capabilities and be able to (40:07) make that. Can we pull up a picture of, and is this a prototype that’s in the, that’s in the, (40:12) on the website or is this actually? They’re actually flying in Israel. Okay.

But to come (40:17) to the United States, they have to go through the testing. You thinking that it can hold some cargo (40:23) as well? It could hold cargo. Or package delivery, things like that.

Yeah. That’s a package, well, (40:31) I mean, like heavier payloads, like bigger things, I think. So this is, this is for something a (40:37) little bit bigger.

It’s not going to show up. It’s not going to show up with your Amazon Prime (40:43) package. Okay.

But as we know, the, right here in Southeast Michigan in the Pontiac location for, (40:50) where the Pontiac Silverdome used to be as a Amazon facility. And that facility is a drone (40:56) launch site, correct? Yes. Yes.

Pontiac is like the test site here. There’s a drone corridor (41:01) in Detroit that they’ve opened up. Mayor had a dozen yellow light donuts delivered to him that (41:08) he handed out to the police officers there.

That was pretty cool. But yeah, so they’re, (41:14) Amazon’s delivering packages. And like, I heard, and I could wrong by a dollar, (41:23) but I think it’s like $4.95, $5.95 for a Prime member to get a drone package delivered.

And (41:31) not, it’s like seven bucks. Okay. And it’ll probably be weight restricted.

You know, (41:36) obviously it has to be able to get lift off with the, with what it is, but if it’s something small (41:41) or whatever. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So I think that it’s super exciting. I think this, I call (41:49) this like a very big drone, but it’s much more than a drone. It’s pretty much into the aerospace (41:54) because it’s with the FAA.

When do you think we’ll see, when do you think we’ll see those? (41:59) So, I mean, if they’re getting their approvals and moving forward and you know that the technology (42:03) works and you’ve got an ability to help manufacture these and probably solidify more design work and(42:10) things like that and put them all together at a certain point. Yeah. Well, there are some that (42:15) are operating.

I think there’s Archer, Dovey who have some operational EV tolls in different cities (42:22) in the U.S. right now. Okay. And this would be, this is a unique opportunity with air because they(42:31) would be able to fly in the, what do they call that, the sport, the recreational sport aircraft (42:40) ability too.

So somebody could get, you or I could go get like our pilot’s license to fly that (42:47) ourselves versus having it be like an automated, somebody else flying it and just getting it in. (42:53) But they are using air taxis like this in different areas in the United States right now. (42:58) So what’s your, what’s your guess? If you’re, if you’re a betting person, when do we see it here?(43:02) 27 is what I’ve been hearing, 28.

Maybe here in Detroit area or, or widespread. (43:07) Yeah. Widespread.

I think the FAA is figuring that out there. Okay. You know, they’re mapping (43:12) out with, we have a local company here that would probably be interesting for your podcast.

They’re (43:18) called Airspace Link. Okay. And they kind of are like the one of like two or three companies that (43:27) are really mapping out the airspace for drones across the United States.

And, and that’s, they’ve (43:34) got to get all these different like airspaces defined and patrolled. Especially when you (43:44) introduce, you know, a machine like the eVTOL into the airspace. Wow.

I know. Wow. Interesting (43:51) stuff.

So just as we get our cars figured out to where they’re breaking and maybe not hitting each(43:57) other as at the same rate, now we’re going to have drones and have the whole next level of, (44:02) you know, how are we keeping those safe? How are we keeping those from, (44:05) you know, intersecting with each other incorrectly or, you know, having issues. (44:09) It’s the Jacksons. Wild.

It’s happening now. Wild. Back to the future.

It’s finally coming (44:14) after this. They thought 2015, I think with back to the future, but they’re, (44:18) they were off by 15 years or so. So, so the next thing I want to talk about is we’ll cut this big (44:34) long hash out here.

Next thing I want to talk about is culture. So you had mentioned that (44:45) Dakota has a special culture, a culture of longevity, long tenure, familial leadership, (44:53) just a familial feeling throughout. What are you doing now to make sure that that emotive has the (45:02) same and that you’re, you know, you’re carrying that torch on for the next five, 10, whatever(45:07) years that, that you, that you’re looking ahead from here.

It’s a lot of training and education, (45:13) right. For our team internally. We talked about, you know, people being fearful to raise their (45:20) hand for help and all of that.

And so when, when we have team members that come on board, (45:27) that maybe haven’t come from companies that have a culture like ours, they are reluctant to, (45:33) to do that, to ask for help with that. And so there’s training around, like we talked about (45:40) before, Hey, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, you’re not looked down upon if you raise your hand, (45:45) you know, it’s actually what we want. Give us the bad news so that we can help you, you know, (45:52) work through it together.

And so that’s kind of eye-opening for some of the individuals that (45:58) come from other companies or, you know, other suppliers, definitely automotive suppliers for (46:05) sure. And so it’s kind of the education piece around that. And I think that it is hard trying (46:15) to bring, you know, cause that comes a lot from the leadership.

And as I said, we have new (46:20) leadership on board, so they really get it. And, you know, at the same time we work to, to, (46:28) to make our companies lean and to make sure we’re growing in the right spaces, (46:35) right. And learning the new technologies we talked about, you know, we’re challenging our teams to, (46:42) to figure out how they can use AI, how they can look at their processes and say, (46:48) if I were to rewrite my process from ground zero, you know, what could I eliminate? You know, (46:54) what could I automate? That’s where AI fits in, you know, and what needs more of my human (47:00) so that they can, you know, not feel like they’re overburdened with tasks that are just, (47:08) you know, repetitive.

And, and I think that that is really a key for us to, (47:13) to grow and to move forward and to be competitive for sure. (47:16) Sure. Well, how do you, how do you balance the high performance nature of yourself, (47:24) your organization with the, with the, this place feels like home, right? So how do you make sure (47:31) that you’ve got the throttle, but you also have the, the compassion, the empathy, how do you (47:37) balance that? Well, it is hard to balance.

I think, you know, part of it is I try to be very (47:45) approachable. I mean, sometimes it may be, I’m not, sometimes I might seem like I’m not, (47:52) cause I go to the plant. I, but I have like a whole day full of calls to be on.

So it’s like, (47:59) gal, is it really effective for me to go there? But my doors close the whole day. Cause I’m on (48:03) one call after another, after another. So you have to be intentional about it.

Right. And, (48:08) and try to get out on the shop floor and, you know, and, and make sure that you just, (48:14) it’s the little things that count, right. When you’re walking through, just make sure you say (48:19) hello to people.

I mean, it seems so simple. It seems like, well, of course you would do that, (48:25) but sometimes you can be as, you know, when you have so many things on your mind and going on,(48:33) you know, it can be easy just to be in your own head, walk into your office down the hallway (48:39) and, and walking right past people. So I try to be intentional about doing that.

(48:45) And, and I think that’s helpful because people feel like they can come talk to me. (48:51) And I think other leaders see that and emulate that. So I think that’s part of, you know, (48:57) you can be busy, you can be solving the problems that come up every day, (49:04) but you can also do it in a human way by offering respect to those.

(49:11) We’ve noted that that’s been part of Hondra’s culture from the very beginning. (49:17) Well, she’s known as a high performer. Oh yes, yes.

She’s very much so. (49:22) That exists in your organization. It comes from our parents.

You know, (49:25) they had a great work ethic. You had mentioned to me that your parents,(49:29) your dad was entrepreneurial. He was entrepreneurial.

(49:32) So what did your dad do? So my dad, when he was 15, (49:37) because he had eight brothers and sisters, my grandmother came from the reservation. (49:43) So she was a native American Mohawk Iroquois and married our grandfather, who she said was a Heinz (49:52) 57, because he was an orphan and she’s like, he’s got a little bit of everything. (50:00) But they had eight children.

They lived in Detroit. And when my dad was like 15, (50:06) he got a job to help the family and he got a job in a bump shop, you know, so like a collision (50:13) repair shop and, and, you know, just sweeping up. And, but he was watching the painters and (50:20) he learned a trade.

So he learned how to paint cars. He’s very good at painting cars. Like, (50:27) you know, you got in an accident and you know, he could paint it.

So it never looked like it (50:32) ever had anything done and taught all of his brothers, the trade. They eventually, (50:38) he eventually worked at the, at the GM technical center, the tech center there. (50:46) Got all his brother’s jobs.

They were like, you know, a crew in there, but very talented (50:54) in what he did. So he did that. But when he worked in the bump shop, he also like (51:01) worked out of the garage, you know, fixing up old cars, (51:07) repairing them and selling them.

And for a while, he had a collision shop in Pelston, (51:14) Michigan. He lived up North for a while when I was growing up. So after my sisters had, you know, (51:21) moved out of the house.

And so he was up there with his own business for a while doing that. And (51:26) then he got the opportunity to go back to the tech center. And so he did that.

So he’s very (51:33) transformative too. So maybe that’s where I get this wanderlust. Yeah.

Yeah. But also, I mean, (51:38) never this wanderlust, not, not, not misguided or unguided. I mean, following really smart, (51:46) smart paths.

Always trying to challenge yourself in new ways. It was like you were hitchhiking (51:50) across the, you know. No, kind of, but you know, just like saying, Hey, I’ve, you know, I’ve been (51:57) working in this situation for, you know, maybe nursing and call it a situation, but I’ve been(52:03) working in this profession for a while and what can I do next? Like, what’s the next area I can (52:09) grow in? I mean, definitely coming to automotive is in a logical first step, but you know, it was (52:16) using different skills or skills that I didn’t use at all.

Maybe like Excel. I can get it, (52:28) get it done in Excel. It might take me a while.

I might have to phone a friend, but (52:33) to use those in different ways. So it’s all about that. But what about, and what about the fear? So (52:40) show some people the human side of it.

When, like, what was the scariest thing (52:45) making some of these transitions for you? Oh, well, I’m an introvert, you know, by nature. (52:51) So just even talking in front of people, I, I hate it. But I do it.

People push me into it. (52:59) Okay. So I do what needs to be done, even if I don’t like it.

That’s part of my nature. (53:07) But yeah, I always struggle with a posture syndrome. I think that’s common.

It’s, (53:15) it’s very common, I think, in women leaders to have that. But I think men face that just as well. (53:22) I wouldn’t say so.

Yeah. They pull it off really well if they do. I mean, (53:35) I don’t know.

I, I, there’s always self-doubt, right? And I think if you, you show up and you (53:48) are committed to the work, you’re not afraid to put the work in, I think you can get there. I (53:54) think people are willing to help you and you have to be willing to let them. (53:59) I think that that’s one of the biggest mistakes that I see people make is this (54:03) sense of foolish pride, not asking for help and how I find it to be the most helpful.

I mean, (54:12) the most transformative, the most helpful thing for me is that I, I just ask for help, right? And (54:18) you had mentioned some people, you know, like Paul Glantz, you know, if I have, if something’s on my (54:23) mind, I call him, right? And I know this may sound stupid, Paul, but what do you think about (54:28) this? You know, and I have no problem just sharing that with him, but he’s been, but he’s been such an (54:35) open person to me since the first day I met him, you know, that I have that, that line with him, (54:40) but really with everything, I mean, I, I feel like people don’t understand reciprocation and the, (54:46) that, that effect that, that people, that it doesn’t bother people to be asked to help. (54:53) And I think they’re surprised if they send an offer out there. (54:58) I always take people up.

I’m like, don’t be surprised. I will take you up on it. (55:03) My wife says, don’t ever offer to Matt.

Don’t say that there, we have a pool, (55:06) come on over anytime. Cause cause I’ll come over. It’s the same thing with help.

(55:10) Yeah. So, but I think a lot of people maybe don’t take people up on that. (55:16) Yeah.

I think that that’s, that’s very true. Cause I mean, I, I, how many times have you (55:21) offered help to someone that you knew that you could, you could guide them in some way, (55:25) you could affect change in some way. And they never called back.

Right. And you were a willing (55:31) participant in that. They didn’t, they didn’t understand it.

And I wonder why is it, is it (55:36) because there’s a pride that they don’t want to ask for help. Don’t want to admit they don’t know, (55:41) or is it the fear of change? Well, fear of change changes hard, but it’s worth it. (55:52) Yeah.

I think people need to listen to people like you who have made the change and it’s like, (55:56) Hey, the changes, the change is not easy, but it’s worked out pretty much every time. (56:01) Yeah. I mean, I, I always like to say, what’s the worst that can happen? Right.

You know, (56:06) kind of like my sister put that backstop in. Well, if you don’t like it, you can just go (56:11) back to, you can give shots in the plants and sure. Like, well, okay.

Yeah. What’s the worst (56:18) that can happen? You know, my, my sister-in-law gave me a sticker that, that is, is it’s not, (56:22) I didn’t stick it to my mirror, but it’s sitting next to the mirror in the morning. It says, (56:26) but did you die though? Yeah.

Right. Exactly. Cause no matter what it is, (56:32) so I hope others will, uh, we’ll listen to that.

What would you tell your younger self (56:37) that you know today that maybe you didn’t know 20 years ago? I mean, you would have been nine then, (56:44) right? 20 years ago, you were around nine. Um, I think that coming when I was young, (56:53) I felt everything had perfect, right. A perfection mentality.

So I think one of the things is (57:01) probably a couple of things I would tell myself. One of the things is, you know, don’t be afraid (57:05) to be wrong. Don’t be afraid to make a mistake.

You got to give yourself grace to do that because (57:11) that’s how you learn. Right. And don’t be afraid to ask the question.

Talked about imposter syndrome (57:20) and you know, it would always like make me so internally angry with myself when I’m in a meeting (57:27) or, you know, question and I say, wow, they probably all already know that. And that’s (57:34) his question. And then some guy would ask the same question, be like, Oh, I knew that was a (57:40) good question.

So don’t be afraid to do that. That’s great. Um, what, what grounds you outside (57:49) of work? Um, okay.

When you’re not in the office, let’s say we know you’re always working. No, (58:02) I mean, I try to stay active. I try to watch over my health, right.

I, I try to get up in the (58:11) mornings and do my workout first thing. Cause I’m not good at doing it after I had a day of work. (58:19) Um, so I try to be intentional about doing that.

Try to, what time do you wake up? (58:27) Okay. (58:30) About one. I mean, it’s in a while.

It’s like, Oh, but I was sleeping before. (58:36) I see alarm. Maybe I should, maybe I should listen to my body.

Um, but no, I try to, um, (58:46) to be physically fit. I try to watch what I eat. Um, the team knows this.

They’re always ordering (58:52) me salads, but it’s very nice of them. Um, but I don’t know. My family grounds me for sure.

(59:02) Yeah. I am very spiritual. And, and so I like to do self-reflection.

(59:14) Oh, that that’s important. Um, (59:19) what did the, what did your husband and kids say when you were, when you made the move from (59:25) nursing to automotive? They’re always supportive. They’re very supportive.

Of course, (59:32) my middle girl wasn’t going into 10th grade. So she’s like, my life is ruined. You are terrible.

(59:38) But I mean, it teaches resilience. Right. And then the young one, she was, (59:44) she was going into fifth grade.

So she, they were okay. I mean, they’d moved before. So it (59:50) wasn’t anything they’re like, here they go again.

But, um, you know, they’re, they’re doing well. (59:58) They’re very resilient. They are very independent.

And, uh, what are they all doing? (1:00:04) So my oldest Brett, he is a CPA. He works for EY in Chicago. And then my middle girl is home.

(1:00:13) She is finishing up her doctorate work. She’s going to nurse anesthesia school. So,(1:00:19) you know, never want to do your kind of nursing followed in those footsteps, right? Like you never (1:00:27) say never.

Cause there’s somebody that writes those down somewhere. Yeah, exactly. And then (1:00:33) the youngest, she just finished up at Cornell and she is out in Madison, Wisconsin, starting her(1:00:39) PhD program in biomedical engineering.

Wow. He talks about what she’s doing in the lab and it’s (1:00:44) like, my husband, I don’t know. And is he still flying? Yes.

Okay. For? He flies for American (1:00:56) Airlines. Okay.

What kind of equipment is he on? He’s on the 737. So he’s a Czech pilot. Okay.

So (1:01:03) he spends one month doing simulator work and training with pilots in Dallas. And then one (1:01:09) month on the line doing checking off pilots and training. So he’s not, not flying as much as, (1:01:18) or is he flying at all right now? He’s, he, you know, he flies the line every other month.

So (1:01:26) fly the line means. Yeah. So like if you’re a pilot and you just upgraded from first officer (1:01:33) to captain and, uh, they have a check off with, and you check pilot who’s a lot of hours in that (1:01:40) plane.

Cause you’re moving from one seat to the other. So he has to, they have to have so many(1:01:46) flights like that. Oh, interesting.

There could be new first officers who’ve never flown into like (1:01:53) special terrain, like Latin America, where you’ve got the mountains and short runways. (1:02:00) You know, the first time they’re going to do that, they’ve got a lot of guys. You want a guy (1:02:05) that’s done it a bunch of times that’s done it.

And that can say, watch out for this. (1:02:12) Wow. So how many hours does he have? Would just do, do you know a gazillion? Yeah.

(1:02:19) That’s as big, I don’t know how to put that in the transcript. So we’ll just, (1:02:22) we’ll just put a lot of zeros on it. Wow.

Wow. Great. And how much longer will he do that? (1:02:29) Mandatory retirement is 65.

Okay. Okay. So he’s got 30, 30 more years date on his birthday.

Okay. (1:02:37) Good. Good for him.

Five milestone birthday coming up. Okay. Um, a lot of our viewership (1:02:49) or listenership is, uh, the business community, the middle market business community.

We’re all (1:02:55) certainly wondering what, what, what others think the economic outlook, uh, appears to be. (1:03:02) So from your vantage point, you obviously have purview into different orders, (1:03:06) different things of that nature. What do you think in the next three to five years looks like? (1:03:13) I think, I mean, I wish I had a crystal ball to be able to really say that, um, you know, (1:03:21) right now things I think for our customers, there’s trying to figure out (1:03:28) rambling, especially the tariffs and, and bring things back to the U S which (1:03:35) that’s, that’s good to do.

I think it’s going to take some time to do that. Um, (1:03:44) there has to be a market for that could be expensive to do that. Um, I think a lot depends (1:03:51) on, you know, kind of this for our industry, the flip flopping of administration priorities (1:04:00) is a challenge.

Like what we talked about with the EVPs full speed ahead, you know, (1:04:04) we’ll put all our investment there. And then kind of the pullback on that has caused a lot (1:04:09) of scrambling, but I figure it out. So I feel like, you know, maybe pulling it back a little (1:04:18) bit has opened some opportunities for, you know, maybe hybrid vehicle space to come on board that (1:04:26) maybe you’ll get more adoption into EVs by that slow roll, like people more comfortable with the(1:04:34) range anxiety, but still feel like they’re doing right by the environment and their wallet(1:04:43) through buying gas.

Right. And so I think that, you know, we’ll level out. It’ll be okay.

Will (1:04:50) there be bumps in the road? Definitely. Yeah. I think we’ll find a path.

Okay, good. So you (1:04:57) think there’s a little pain of change, but, but, but good. That’s what I hope.

Good blue skies (1:05:03) beyond that. Well, we’ll figure it out. That’s what I think is great.

I mean, (1:05:08) we will figure it out, right? You will, whatever it’s going to be, we’ll figure it out. That’s kind (1:05:13) of my mantra. We got to sometimes take it as it is.

Yeah. I think that’s a great attitude. I mean, (1:05:19) I think that that’s where whether it’s the media or whatever, or just people, you know, (1:05:25) misery loves company.

Everybody loves to talk about that negative side of things. But (1:05:29) when you, when you look at folks like yourself, or you look at Andre, or you look at Paul, (1:05:34) or you look at Bruce or any of these other people that we’ve, we’ve mentioned is I don’t care how (1:05:40) bad it gets. They’re going to find a way to do something that brings value to the economy around(1:05:45) them and to the community around them.

And we’re going to make it work. Yeah, exactly. So keep (1:05:51) your eyes open and, but always be keeping your head up for sure.

So what else, anything else (1:05:58) you’d like to close out with words of wisdom? I don’t know. Don’t be afraid of change, right? (1:06:09) Look for emotive immobility at CES. Yeah.

Yeah. That’s actually something we should make sure (1:06:14) that we, we highlight before we go is CES is coming up in January, January 5th. Okay.

The 10th, (1:06:21) I think in Las Vegas. So, and we know a lot, I mean, what, a couple hundred thousand or (1:06:25) more people go to that every year. Yeah, for sure.

And, and what’s your booth going to be (1:06:30) filled with? It’s going to be with emotive. You’re going to have the folks from air there as well. (1:06:36) And, and who else, and what’s, what’s this going to be all about? We have a startup that we’ve (1:06:40) supported called selling.

So they are doing some really interesting, and we are helping them (1:06:45) integrate that with some of our, our capabilities and contacts, right? So they’re doing some (1:06:52) lightweighting through wire harnessing. I don’t know if you’re familiar. So, you know, those are, (1:06:59) if you’re putting together, say an instrument panel, all those little buttons have to have (1:07:04) wires that come through them.

And as we have instrument panels that do more things for you, (1:07:11) right. Your infotainment center and all that. I mean, some of these, these, these wire harness (1:07:17) are like, sure.

Yeah. I mean, we have to put them under heaters to be able to bend them and all that. (1:07:23) Well, they’ve come up with a technology to lightweight that to make that a flat.

Oh, interesting. (1:07:28) Yeah. So we’re, we’re helping them move down that path with, with our customers and (1:07:36) helping our customers to see a different way of doing things, which is key.

So they’ll be there. (1:07:42) We’re going to have our new transformer prototype there. Our smart transformer along a pad mount and (1:07:50) a pole mount.

Okay. So that will be in the booth. That’s very exciting.

And the way that works, (1:07:54) it sits outside of the vehicle and, or it sits inside the vehicle. This is for like your houses. (1:07:58) Like when you walk through your neighborhood and you see those little green boxes that are everywhere.

(1:08:03) Well, you know, currently those are supposed to, you know, supply like maybe 10 houses. (1:08:09) I’m making that. I don’t know how many, but as an example, 10 houses, you know, (1:08:15) now we have all these devices, iPads, households are plugging in more things than they have.

So (1:08:21) they can’t support as much, not to mention they’re really old. Um, in the lead time to try and get (1:08:28) any, uh, it’s, it’s crazy like here to get transformers in 50 some months. And they’re (1:08:38) probably, I would say at least 50% are made outside of the U S if not more.

(1:08:45) Okay. And so we are looking to, you know, be a solution that can put that manufacturing here (1:08:52) in Michigan and to have smart transformers and to be able to do it to scale, manufacture to scale (1:08:59) for that. So our design, our capability.

So I thought, I thought you were talking about the, (1:09:07) the, how the car charges as it’s breaking or, or the vehicles and all that. This is, this is (1:09:12) actually actually the energy company. Got it.

Okay. I was actually confused about that. I’m (1:09:17) glad you clarified that big deal.

So you could be in all of our homes, open, good stuff and power (1:09:25) in the future. Right? Great. Yeah.

Sustainable way. So that will be there. We’re going to have, (1:09:32) um, also I was talking about that, uh, intellectual property we had.

So we have a, (1:09:38) a transfer case that goes into, we think the use case will be mostly commercial vehicle, right? So (1:09:45) you have a lot of, um, tractor trailer trucks that spend a lot of time idling. All that energy goes (1:09:52) to waste. We found a way to harness that and put it back into, into powering the vehicle (1:09:58) or other things.

So we’ll have that there as well. And then we do some, um, (1:10:04) warehousing services and warehouse management system and software that we will have showcased (1:10:10) in. Okay.

And is that a, uh, kind of eat your own dog food type of stuff? The, the warehouse (1:10:15) management, uh, software, you guys are using that already? Yes. Yes. Okay.

And are you using it in (1:10:22) in your other organizations? Yes, we are. Oh, great. Okay.

So as warehouse experts who have (1:10:29) done this for a long time and manufacturing experts, you’re now saying, Hey, we can share (1:10:34) some of the, of what we’ve learned to be optimized. Exactly. We can be a logistics center for your (1:10:40) business, right? And we can manage that inventory for you.

99.9% accurate and deliver it to you. (1:10:48) What you want exactly what you need. Okay.

So it’s, it’s how you would explain it at a cocktail (1:10:56) party? Because I mean, the, the group of companies does just quite a bit of stuff. Yeah. So put that (1:11:02) in a nutshell one more time.

Well, I don’t know. I mean, we’re trying to accelerate sustainable (1:11:09) mobility. That’s the tagline, but you know, it’s, it’s that warehouse management, um, (1:11:15) service is, is very key.

Okay. Um, you know, for a lot of different industries. And so (1:11:21) of course, automotive loves it, but we know that other industries are going to love that as well.

(1:11:27) Yeah. I mean, with all this emerging tech, I mean, they have to be leveraging your(1:11:31) people like yours expertise on how do I bring this thing to market, right? So I’ve got this idea (1:11:36) and now I get an order for a hundred thousand of these things. How do I then(1:11:41) put that order together? Well, sure.

And as we want manufacturers, you know, to, (1:11:46) to bring things back to the U S they only have so much square footage in their plans. They don’t (1:11:50) want to put up more brick and mortar. Okay.

So what can you take out of your plans to give you (1:11:54) more space to do that? And we can manage that for you. And then you can do more of your manufacturing, (1:12:02) whatever it is and handle all of you, you know, we’ll handle the supply chain for you. (1:12:07) We will handle all of the inventory for you.

We will keep it accurate and we will get it to you (1:12:14) when you watch on time. Good stuff. All right.

Well, I, I, I think we’ve covered a lot here with (1:12:26) you. I mean, I think that this is so exciting. This next chapter with emotive.

I think that’s (1:12:32) great that we’re going to have some feedback from you. I hope after that we sit down again (1:12:37) and you tell me all about CES and what you learned and you know, maybe what, what others (1:12:42) who have technologies or processes or things like that, that they want to take to market, (1:12:47) right. You know, what, what they could learn from you in doing this.

Cause I think this is a bold (1:12:51) move. You’ve partnered up nicely and you’ve built a big booth to, to go do this and showcase. So (1:12:57) I think you’re going to bring back a lot of, a lot of learnings for the rest of us.

I know (1:13:00) that’s going to, it’s exciting. And the world is going to know what emotive is all about too. (1:13:05) That’s the game plan.

Good stuff. Well, thanks for doing this. Great job.

Thank you. Thank you. (1:13:11) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Auxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed (1:13:16) to outsmart chaos.

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