(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

All right, welcome to this episode of the (0:40) BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt Loria with some very special guests here on what is a special episode (0:46) for us. This is our 9-11 special episode where we’re going to be honoring the victims, the heroes, (0:51) and the patriots involved in the attacks of 9-11-2001.

And I’m so happy to have these (0:57) three gentlemen with me. We’ve got John DeMoose, who’s a senator from Michigan, (1:03) the 37th district. We’ve got Israel Hernandez, who is a finance fellow, if I will summarize in (1:10) one way, but who was also in the West Wing that day of the 9-11 attacks at the White House.

(1:17) And then Bob Darling, Lieutenant Colonel, retired U.S. Marine Corps here, who actually has a full (1:24) professional keynote speech that he’s been doing for 15 years, explaining to people what it was (1:30) like to be inside the president’s bunker the day of and days surrounding the 9-11 attacks. (1:38) So, you know, in the words of Todd Beamer, I think it’s apropos. Todd Beamer was the gentleman who (1:45) helped storm the cockpit on flight 93.

So let’s roll. Let’s roll. That was a day that changed (1:52) history for all of us, you know, for sure.

And, you know, we kind of live in this world of where (1:58) it was pre-9-11, post-9-11. I know not everybody remembers that feeling, but, (2:04) you know, that loss of innocence that we had after that whole event took place. So would each (2:11) of you guys just give a little introduction and a little more color of what happened to you, (2:16) where you were, day of 9-11, who you are, all of that sort of stuff, so the audience (2:21) gets a chance to know you, and then let’s dig in on some questions.

(2:24) John, you want to start us off? Sure. Yeah. My name is John DeMoose.

I’m the (2:28) state senator for northern Michigan and the eastern upper peninsula here, and(2:32) that has nothing to do with my 9-11 story. The 9-11 story, we came out of a (2:36) film production background, and we were working on a project to tell the great stories of Arlington(2:41) National Cemetery and just so happened to have a meeting in the Pentagon with the chief of (2:45) public affairs for the Army that morning on 9-11. So we were in the E-ring right on the corridor (2:50) when it got hit, and it was eye-opening and life-changing, and we learned so much that day.

(2:56) Wow. That’s incredible. So my name’s Israel Hernandez.

I live in (3:00) Harbor Springs, Michigan, a beautiful part of the country, but on 9-11, at that point, (3:05) I worked at the White House and officed in the West Wing, and yeah, it was a very,(3:11) kind of very unique moment, and look forward to talking about it. (3:14) Great. And, you know, before we go on, I think everybody who watches this podcast (3:19) will probably notice a slightly different background than what we normally would have.

(3:24) We’re actually at the Otis Harbor Springs Hotel, which is in Harbor Springs. We’ve shot episodes (3:31) here before, In Your Lounge. Israel’s one of the general partners here and so graciously hosting (3:37) us on the ground, so thanks for that as well.

And I’m Bob Darling, a retired Marine Corps (3:44) lieutenant colonel, and I had the pleasure of serving with the White House military office (3:48) in airlift operations during the attack of 9-11. My background was as an attack helicopter pilot (3:54) that eventually went to HMX-1, Marine Helicopter Squadron 1, which eventually brought me to the (3:59) White House. So I was there that day supporting the president’s trip to Sarasota, Florida.

(4:05) So Bob and I officed at the White House during the same time. (4:10) Wow. (4:10) Which is kind of amazing.

(4:12) A couple hundred yards away? Not even? (4:15) Not that far. Within the grounds, within the White House grounds. (4:18) But we got to be fair.

He was a deputy assistant to the president. (4:22) Okay. (4:22) I was a major, you know, at the time in the White House military office.

(4:27) Majors didn’t hang around with deputy assistants. He was over there, you know, with the fine china. (4:33) Yes, but you got saluted and he didn’t, right? He just got the handshakes.

(4:37) Exactly. (4:37) Or even if ever. (4:39) So what I’d really love to do today while we’re talking, for those of you who know me, (4:46) you may have seen me posting about Bob and the keynote speech that Bob gives that really (4:52) walks everybody through this in the book that he’s written.

I’m going to let you kind of run (4:56) timeline on this because you know it so cold what happened. (5:02) My interaction with 9-11 was kind of the best near miss that I could have ever expected, (5:09) which was I was scheduled to be in the World Trade Center helping with a repossession. (5:15) I was working for a computer leasing company at the time and there was a repossession for (5:19) someone who was in default and somebody needed to go in and inventory computer equipment and then (5:26) figure out where to sell it off and everything like that since the person wasn’t paying their bill.

(5:31) And so I was in my offices in Walled Lake, Michigan and I mentioned something to my boss (5:37) and he asked me to do something. And I said, well, you know, I’m going to New York City. (5:42) And he said, why? And I said, oh, you know, Bill from the warehouse asked me to go(5:47) take care of this.

And he says, no, no, no, no, no, no. I got this and this and this for you. (5:51) You got to do this.

Ask him to send somebody else. So, you know, unbooked my hotel and (5:57) changed my plans. And, you know, very fortunate near miss, you know, I would have been I would (6:03) have been right there at ground zero.

And, you know, I’m so thankful that I wasn’t. And, (6:09) you know, the lightest brush with the tragedy, you know, versus what you guys experienced. (6:15) I’m actually I just remembered a moment about that.

So there was a friend of mine, a colleague (6:21) who officed with us in the White House grounds and her brother officed in the World Trade Center (6:28) and their parents were in Europe on their on a trip that they’ve planned for years. And it was (6:36) hearing that both of their kids were in the two places that were moments of target. You can (6:43) imagine the moment of that family.

That’s crazy. Anyway, we’re going to go crazy. Go back.

Yeah. (6:49) Yeah. So so let’s let’s kind of start off with, you know, where where were you guys each when (6:54) you realized something was was terribly wrong? And I think you probably had the first (7:01) inkling of it or did you hear about it on the news, too? (7:04) No.

Well, we were watching the news. We are in the Eisenhower executive office building. We’re(7:08) adjacent to the West Wing.

We’re on the White House campus. And that’s where, you know, most (7:13) of the staff in their offices reside. And sure enough, the president was already in Sarasota, (7:18) Florida, and he was planning on doing his academic agenda that morning at the M.E. Booker (7:23) Elementary School.

So we’re monitoring his progress. Our job was to support him. Helicopters, (7:30) limousines, snipers, doctors, phones, whatever he needs.

So if something goes wrong, we have to get, (7:34) you know, a replacement part in there. So we’re monitoring the president’s event. And all of a (7:39) sudden, somebody came running into airlift operations and said, hey, quick, turn on CNN.

(7:43) A small airplane just hit the North Tower of the World Trade Center. Looked up. It was 846.

It (7:48) just happened. And all the TVs were going on. And now we’re monitoring that event in New York City.

(7:54) Wow. Okay. What about you, Phyllis? (7:56) I’m going to go back just because as we speak, I just think of things.

White House Ops is an (8:04) amazing, impressive group of the most capable of our military. When I worked at the White House (8:12) and I had this honor and pleasure of working with the military aides, the White House Ops for trips (8:18) that the president had to take, the level of experience and attention to detail. Actually, (8:25) I learned so much from this team.

They were so impressive. They were amazing. So it’s an honor, (8:31) really, Bob, to spend time with you because I worked with your teams all over the world as (8:37) president traveled and even just at the White House or just to go to Camp David.

(8:42) I mean, such an effort every single time. So anyway, I had to kind of make note of that.(8:48) So see what I was telling your wife, Angela, that you are a pretty big deal.

(8:51) See that? She didn’t totally believe me. When the camera’s off, I’ll slip that $100 over.(8:56) Thank you.

So where were you when you realized something was really wrong? (9:03) Well, the president was in Florida and I worked for the president as a deputy. I (9:09) officed in the West Wing. My office was on the second floor.

Downstairs was where the president (9:15) office, where the chief of staff office, where Dr. Condi Rice office, where the vice president (9:20) office, but upstairs were a lot of the deputies, which included at that point, Margaret Spellings, (9:26) Karl Rove, the economic advisor, just Karen Hughes. And then I office there as well. So I was (9:36) quite honored to have office there.

So we always watch the president in these events because we (9:42) had to really kind of make sure we will follow through or just listen to what’s going on, (9:46) if there are any side things that were mentioned or announced. And we too saw the news of the hit. (9:54) And that was really kind of unusual and peculiar.

So we kind of got sidetracked with what was going (10:00) on. I mean, I don’t know if you remember, but there was a dual screen. There was like the (10:04) president and New York City and it was on TV.

I could see both and watching him at the school. (10:13) Yeah. Watching him at the school and then watching the tower get hit and then the smoke.

(10:19) And then we all saw the second plane hit and that’s kind of when everything changed,(10:23) but that’s where I was. Okay. Yeah.

Well, we had just, we had been filming oddly enough in Cuba (10:30) the week before with a humanitarian organization and had just arrived in Washington for a series (10:36) of meetings on a film we wanted to produce and just found out the night before that our meeting (10:40) was at the Pentagon. And so we took the Metro over there and I was all excited. I’d never been to the(10:46) Pentagon before.

And we were supposed to meet with the chief of public affairs of the army and (10:50) arrived probably about 10 after nine. And we were up where you had to get your badges and check in(10:54) and wait for your escort. And I saw all these people running around on cell phones and I heard (10:59) him saying things like, well, was it a terrorist attack? What happened? There were two planes.

(11:03) And I think the second plane had just, it was probably about nine, 10, we got there. So the (11:07) second plane had just hit the world, the second tower in New York. And so I called my wife and I (11:12) said, so she was sitting in Northern Michigan, eight months pregnant and scared to death here.

(11:17) And I said, what’s happening? Somebody just said something about a terrorist attack. And she told (11:21) me what happened. I said, well, you’ll never guess where we’re at.

We’re at the Pentagon. And she said, (11:24) well, you need to go back to your room. We stay, we’re staying right in DC because there’s more (11:28) planes missing and I’ll never forget.

I told her, I said, Margo, this is the safest building on earth. (11:35) We’re just fine. And right then our escort came and flagged us and started walking us back.

And we (11:41) were in the E-ring. When the plane hit, it was just rounding that last corner there. So we heard (11:47) screams behind us and in front of us because evidently jet fuel, like a flare from the jet (11:52) fuel went through one of those cross cutting corridors.

And it was amazing because right (11:56) afterwards we turned around and we started walking out and Margo called, my wife called and she said, (12:04) are you guys okay? I see something about smoke at the Pentagon. And this had to be instantaneous. I (12:09) mean, talk about the power of media.

She saw a little scroll and I said, yeah, we’re fine. We’re (12:14) leaving the building. And then right afterwards they cut off cell phone communication.

So it was (12:18) hours before we could talk to her, but it was literally right as we were leaving the building. (12:21) Did you hear it? (12:22) We heard it. You know what? It’s funny because it’s, we heard it and we felt it more than (12:27) anything.

I mean, because it was like this deep rumble and it’s weird. You’re almost, (12:33) I had to really wonder in the years following what’s wrong with me because like I found there (12:38) was nothing scary about it. It was just weird.

(12:41) For those that don’t know, the Pentagon is an enormous building with rings that are very deep. (12:47) So it’s the enormity and the scale of this building, it’s unlike many others. So I can see why.

(12:53) But we were in the outer ring that got hit just out and it was funny because we’re walking around (12:58) and I mean, that’s why I say I was wondering for years what was wrong with me because I didn’t, (13:03) wasn’t having profound thoughts. I wasn’t particularly alarmed. Literally we turned (13:07) around.

Somebody said some helicopter just crashed on a helicopter pad, which was right (13:11) down from where we were. And then somebody else said, well, no, it’s a car bomb. And I remember(13:16) I didn’t have any grand thoughts of reviewing my life or taking stock of things or having regrets.

(13:22) Literally the only thought going through my mind is we could be walking into the next car bomb. (13:27) I wonder if that’s going to hurt. Like that’s the extent of it.

And then we walked past the door (13:31) that looked out over some green grass and it looked really inviting. So we turned around and (13:36) went out that grass. And it was interesting.

I’ve searched, you know, when you search for things (13:39) for years, because we actually walked out over this piece of green grass that was over the building. (13:44) And there’s only three of us who did that because everybody else knew it didn’t go anywhere. And so (13:49) we got flagged back, but I’m sure there’s a picture somewhere of these three aimless guys walking(13:53) around.

Well, I’ll never forget. We walked out and everybody says this, how clear blue that day (13:59) was. And when we walked out, it had just happened in the black smoke, which is just starting to(14:03) rise right in front of our faces over there.

We were also getting ready for a state dinner (14:08) that week, which never happened. We had to cancel. I do remember that day was very clear.

(14:14) Going outside is so blue and beautiful. Everyone made note of how beautiful the day was because (14:19) of the state dinner. I think everybody remembers.

I mean, I remember I was on M59 in Southeast (14:25) Michigan, driving over to Quinder Road. There’s like a little overpass there. And I’m listening (14:30) to the Drew and Mike show on 101.1 in Detroit.

And it was kind of like a comedy, kind of like a (14:39) little bit of a cleaner version of Howard Stern. These guys had this show and one of the hosts (14:45) was a pilot. So they always talked about pilot stuff and different blunders and things like (14:51) that.

And so they started off with it as a big laugh of some bozo in a Cessna. And you’ve said (14:58) this in your talk. Some bozo in a Cessna.

How did he miss seeing that building and ran right (15:06) into it? And then quickly hearing that kind of digress into, oh no, this is something way more (15:12) major. And then I pull into my office and I go into my office building. I was the youngest guy (15:17) in the office at that time.

And watching these adults, watching their screens and crying and (15:24) sobbing and the people running around. And this was in Michigan, right? So far away from this, (15:29) but we all were wondering, you know, are we under attack here? And the owner of the company, (15:36) his son was in New York city. So half the people that knew him, you know, half the people in the(15:41) company knew him, you know, since he was a kid, I didn’t.

And so they were just bawling and just (15:46) wondering where he was. And it was just, it was just wild. I remember trying to call my friend, (15:51) Joanne, who lived in the city and, you know, couldn’t get through.

And it was just such a (15:56) chaotic time, but, but that feeling of kind of that same thing that you mentioned, John, of like (16:02) this at first it’s like these kind of light thoughts and then it’s like, oh, wow, the gravity (16:08) is just sinking. You go back because I’m actually fascinated that you’ve detailed so much of (16:15) the early phase. So can you go back to that moment? Sure.

So we got the first tower, (16:20) the north tower was hit at eight 46, like everybody else watching TV. We saw the second (16:25) tower get hit on TV nine Oh three. That’s when everything changed in the airlift ops over in (16:30) the Eisenhower building.

My boss who was Colonel Mike Irwin at the time, he came running in eyeballs (16:36) on me, stop what you’re doing terrorist event in New York city. And we’re going to do everything (16:41) the white house wants us to do to support the rescue and recovery of the American people in New (16:48) York city. We were busy doing that, John.

And all of a sudden we had an airliner over fly the white (16:54) house, which is prohibited airspace. And we thought, Holy mackerel, there’s another one where, (17:00) you know, we’re potentially a target and we had breaking news. The Pentagon was hit by American (17:04) airlines, flight 77, what turned out to be, you know, a completely different plane that overflew(17:10) the white house.

Back on nine 11, we were doing a large air force, nuclear command and control (17:15) exercise. We parked an air force E four B a seven 47 with a weird cone on top over at Andrews joint(17:23) base, Andrews 15 miles to our east. The Pentagon activated that air crew and said, get to the (17:29) president of the United States in Florida.

So when that seven 47 took off, they put a laser (17:35) line to Sarasota, Florida, and it took them left flying right over the white house, unbeknownst (17:40) to all of us. No, I didn’t hear that. And then that’s what got vice president.

Actually, I remember (17:46) a noise that was over us. I thought it was the plane that was going to the Pentagon, but I (17:55) honestly, I’m not going to remember exactly, but I did hear, you never hear a noise above (18:00) the white house because it’s restricted space. I always would remember Marine one landing.

You (18:06) can hear that the three helicopters, but yeah, there was a lot going on that time.(18:11) But you do remember all those sites and sounds. I mean, I went out.

So when we went out there, (18:15) we stayed there for 45 minutes or so. And we were, I was talking to a man who had been out, (18:19) like walking down the pathway there who watched the plane hit. And he said he was like in shock (18:25) at the size of a huge jet like that at full speed that low.

And I mean, but there’s all those (18:31) sites, the sound sight and sound I remember is when we went outside, you are wondering, okay, (18:35) what else is about to happen? And I thought this would be a great ad for the military, (18:40) for the air force, because all of a sudden there was a military jet scrambled about circling above (18:46) us. And I thought to myself, okay, it’s done here now. Like no more, nothing else is going to (18:51) happen here.

Just the reassuring to it, to a civilian, how reassuring that was to see one of (18:57) our military jets up there protecting us. It put all fear aside that something else was about to (19:02) happen. Wow.

Yeah. And then for the second time in American history, you remember, I remember (19:07) the white house was ordered evacuated. The white house was ordered evacuated.

So let’s go all the (19:12) way back to the war of 1812. You remember the first time? 1814. British are burning down Washington (19:19) DC, Dolly Madison running out the back door.

Oh yeah, of course. That was all the art pieces and (19:23) that’s the first time. Under 87 years later, we’re evacuating our white house for the second time.

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(19:47) So in Bob’s talk, you know, he talks about the, the, um, at that point when, when the evacuation (19:54) occurred out of the white house, uh, the secret service or the, the alert over the loudspeaker, (20:00) what was kind of, did you, were you still in EOB? Yes, still in the EOB because we were supporting (20:06) cargo flights now trying to get to New York with FEMA and a lot of other emergencies were, you (20:11) know, supplies at the white house. The president wanted everything we had to New York city. So (20:16) we’re doing our job and airlift ops when all of a sudden our loudspeaker bled to life to evacuate (20:22) the building.

I could not leave. I grabbed Colonel Irwin and said, the president’s not coming back. (20:28) I was responsible for his logistics.

So wherever they were going to divert him (20:33) on nine 11, he’s going to need limousines, snipers, doctors, helicopters, and phones. (20:37) He’s going to need the package. And he said, well, you can’t stay here.

Go across the street, (20:41) go underground and go inside the president’s bunker, the president’s emergency operation center (20:46) and do logistics. The rest of us are out of here. Yeah.

Wow. And was there an allowed speaker or (20:52) where you were, even though we’re both on the white house grounds, the executive office (20:58) building, which is where the majority of the staff of the president, vice president, the military, (21:04) that’s where the office. And then there’s the West wing, which is part of the white house.

And (21:09) there, there are no microphone, large microphone in the white house. Uh, but we had, uh, we normally, (21:16) I think at that point, what happened was we had the snipers came in to the white house. (21:24) It was the military came in and then there was one of them that was right in front of my door (21:31) on the second floor, which they’ve never done that.

They’ve never been inside. They’ve never (21:36) gone inside the halls. And with a very serious face, very calm face, actually, he said, (21:44) you know, in 30 seconds, we’re going to open the gates of the white house and you are going to have (21:50) to run out the gate and you’re not going to look back.

You’re not, you can’t take anything with you. (21:55) No laptops, nothing. And ladies take off your high heel shoes.

And when I say go, (22:00) you have to run downstairs, don’t look back and run out the gates. And so when he did a countdown, (22:06) he’s like 10, nine, eight. And then he said one zero.

And when he’s, and then when he said go (22:13) in the most loud, clear voice, he said, run, run, run. And it just was at that moment, (22:20) you’re like, this is crazy. And so everybody just literally, I mean, we’re talking about the (22:26) white house staff and the West wing and you just had to, and I have never seen the gates of the (22:34) white house open.

They’ve never been, I mean, they open for a car of visiting, whether it’s like (22:40) the joint chief of staff or a guest of the president or a secretary who’s coming to meet (22:46) with the president through the West wing, those doors, those gates open, but they never stay open.(22:52) So when you’re running out and you see all your friends, your colleagues running out(22:57) at the same time, the gates are open and you’re looking out into Lafayette park. (23:03) You’re looking at all the streets around Pennsylvania Avenue, because back then there was no(23:09) block order, you know, there was, it was blocked, but there was cars there all the time.

(23:15) There aren’t any cars anymore, but back then there were few cars. Just the mayhem of all the (23:22) offices around the white house of people running out of their buildings, people trying to get (23:27) to their cars, just a lot of just evacuation at the same time. So what time would that have been? (23:34) 945.

Yeah. Yeah. 945.

That happened in the Eisenhower building. So I’m sure the same time (23:39) over there. And then when I grabbed the planning kit and started heading for the West wing, (23:43) I saw what you just described, the gates to the North and South wide open and secret service (23:48) with a bullhorn and automatic weapons yelling at the professional staffers, ladies run, (23:54) take off your heels and run.

And you can, what a surreal sight. It was unbelievable. (24:00) Everybody was shaking.

I mean, how can you not? I mean, it’s never happened in history. Like (24:05) you don’t access, you don’t get trained for that. And what you end up also learning is that (24:13) all of that exercise is just really to protect the president.

The whole staff, they’re not there to (24:19) protect you, which is why they told everyone to leave because there is no plan to protect the (24:25) team. They’re there to protect the principals for the obvious reasons. I mean, that’s enough to (24:30) take care of.

So you find yourself in a moment where you’re in a high target area, there’s (24:37) evacuation taking place and there’s no direction as where to go, how to get out of there, like (24:43) what to do. Um, so yeah, it was, it was just a very… (24:47) Where, where did you go? (24:48) So there was a group of us that banded together and we went to a office. So Anita McBride was (24:56) the chief of staff to Mrs. Bush at that time.

Her husband, Tim McBride, who’s I have known for many, (25:04) many years, he was the aide to president George W. Bush years back. I knew where his office was. (25:10) And so it was Ashley Estes, it was Logan Walters.

And, uh, there was a few of us that worked in the (25:18) West Wing that ran out together. And then we officed, we went to Tim McBride’s office. It was, (25:26) he was, he worked at the, I think at that point for Daimler Chrysler.

Um, and so we seeked refuge (25:32) there and we stayed there until we heard what was happening next. So while everyone else was (25:39) leaving Washington, we actually stayed in an office and we were watching everything out the (25:46) window of people trying to figure out where to go, how to get out of there. (25:50) And did you have television in there? Did you have… (25:53) We had phones connected to the White House about where the president, I mean, of course they didn’t (25:59) tell us where the president was, but that the president was, you know, somewhere and that we (26:04) should just stay there to figure out what’s next.

And so we stayed behind. (26:10) I do remember that though, with that evacuation, because I mean, I don’t know if it’s just how I (26:14) think or if it’s because of what I do. I, I tend to notice little things.

And one thing I noticed (26:19) in the Pentagon that was really interesting is that in that moment of crisis there, (26:23) it’s a real leveling thing. We were walking backwards, um, and, uh, turned around and (26:29) started walking out and a highly decorated military officer turned to me and said, (26:34) are we supposed to go deeper in, meaning deeper into the Pentagon, or are we supposed to go out? (26:37) And I said, I don’t know. I’ve never been here before.

But at that moment, (26:41) we’re all just like human beings trying to figure out where we’re supposed to go here. (26:45) And that frankly is why I was so impressed. And I know you, Bob, have a story of, we’re talking (26:50) about this, but so impressed with the people who don’t think like that, like Donald Rumsfeld, (26:54) for him to think, I’m going to go help.

I mean, I don’t think any of us decided not to do it. (26:58) You’re just sort of putting one foot in front of the other. For those people who have the foresight (27:02) to respond, that’s really a testament to their knowledge and understanding and their character, (27:07) frankly.

Wow. We were not part of the security team that was with Bob. Okay.

So we were just (27:16) staff. Yeah. So we don’t have the security that is like, uh, for military purposes.

Okay. So (27:22) there’s a distinction there. People did stay to help the president, but they’re secret, they’re (27:28) high level military focused people.

Okay. So Bob, then at that point, that’s true because (27:33) national emergency, we have places to take the president. We have times the president has to be (27:39) certain places.

So it’s a, the military would take over, secret service takes over (27:44) and they execute and they execute on emergency operation plans to keep our president safe. (27:49) So, so do you know the story that, that John is talking about, about (27:53) was it Rumsfeld at the Pentagon? Yes. So the secretary of defense, (27:57) Donald Rumsfeld was eventually in his office, right? He was in his office for the first hour, (28:03) 846.

And then they entered his office to try to get him to the national military command center,(28:07) the war room at the Pentagon at nine Oh three. But he was said he was due for a CIA briefing (28:12) at nine Oh five. So we stayed in his office on the topic of the attack or on something, (28:17) some other probably on, on who’s responsible, where they are, what do we know what, you know, (28:23) those kinds of things.

And at nine 37 with the impact of flight 77 on the Pentagon, (28:28) his desk literally shook. So like a, a caring human being, he got up out of his office and he (28:35) ran outside to assist with evacuating the wounded. But we only take military orders from two (28:41) individuals, the president and the secretary of defense.

So now our entire national military (28:47) command and control structure is in motion and we don’t know where the secretary is and the (28:51) president’s trying to get airborne. We have nobody at the helm to tell our pilots the rules (28:56) and engagement to defend America. Cause they’re the only ones who can, who can call a true (29:01) offensive.

Sure. That’s how our protocol works. See, we have the secretary would tell the, either (29:06) the joint chiefs to tell the combatant commanders to do something, but it usually it comes on orders (29:11) from the president.

And now we didn’t hear from these guys in the president. We didn’t have Donald (29:16) Rumsfeld giving orders to the combatant commanders. So we ended up in the bunker complex(29:21) that morning with vice president Cheney given orders because he used to be a former secretary (29:26) of defense.

So we had the right guy who knew all the plans, but he didn’t have the authority (29:31) to do it, but he was getting America going forward. Wow. Wow.

(29:37) So what’s next? I’m actually fascinated to hear what’s next. (29:41) No, there’s all the air from outside here just went away. So you gotta, you gotta take it.

(29:45) Let me tell you what’s next. Okay. So I’m in the bunker.

My first phone call at nine 52, (29:51) seven minutes after the white house was already evacuated. It came from the West wing situation (29:56) room now calling downstairs. And the gentleman on the other end said, major, we have another (30:01) hijacked aircraft, 16 miles South of Pittsburgh inbound Washington, DC.

I turned to share that (30:08) information with vice president Cheney’s military aid, who was an air force major, a colleague of (30:13) mine. And I was intercepted. There’s vice president Cheney right here, right next to me (30:18) going, what do you got? Mr. Vice president, 16 miles South of Pittsburgh inbound.

He turns and (30:24) now he’s looking for Donald Rumsfeld. He’s got a speaker box, a landline on the wall down there. (30:29) And he’s reaching out for the, for the secretary of defense, the national command authority, (30:33) but Donald Rumsfeld isn’t there.

He’s out in the parking lot. President’s trying to get airborne (30:38) and vice president Cheney fell into a role of. Former sec def knowing what needed to be done, (30:45) started ordering the national military command center to get two F fifteens at Otis air national (30:52) guard base, Cape Cod.

Let me know when they’re airborne. And then he said, stand by to shoot this (30:58) aircraft down. And we were like, assume that he has just assumed the command.

He’s assumed the (31:04) and everybody was like, wow. It was like the air got sucked out of the room. And now we’re (31:09) listening to the national military command center.

Repeat that order to Cheyenne mountain, Colorado, (31:14) home of NORAD, where they button up the mountain for the first time in our history in anger. And (31:21) that four star calls the Northeast air defense sector two star and they scramble. They launched (31:28) those two F fifteens within minutes.

We heard they were supersonic over Long Island, New York, (31:36) heading for, you know, United flight 93 heading for Shanksville and they’re going 1500 miles an (31:42) hour. They can cover 300 miles in eight minutes. They’re they’re rocking and rolling.

And Cheney (31:48) said, vice president Cheney said, make sure they know their weapons free to engage. (31:53) And no, and no one question, no one question said, Hey, how about we go now go back to them? (31:58) So fast. And everybody was just executing to defend America.

We did not want that airliner (32:05) to kill scores of Americans on the ground. So I know that eventually you’re going to say, (32:10) Hey, tell me something that impacted you. And I can share with you all now decision-making (32:15) in crisis and the courage to move to that level of action is unmatched by anybody I’ve ever met.

(32:21) Vice president Cheney, having that courage to say, I’m going to take American lives out of the (32:26) sky to save more on the ground. But Bob, isn’t it true? So, cause I got the interview when we did (32:33) that documentary, we can talk about later Dick Cheney about this. And I believe it was him who (32:37) told me that directly.

Wasn’t there a moment of relief where, where after the plane went down, (32:41) where they thought, and he, I mean, he was very sensitive. Did we shoot it down? And we’re so (32:46) relieved that we did. Can you tell, were you there for that? Yeah.

So John, that was the moment, (32:52) you know, in life, have you ever been caught in a, in a vortex where you’re elated that something (32:58) didn’t happen and yet you’re in despair that what did happen took lives. So we thought for 30 (33:08) minutes, when we heard over the satellite radios, aircraft down, aircraft down 60 miles South of (33:15) Pittsburgh, no survivors on orders from the vice president. We thought that was it.

He turned and (33:20) said, get me the president on air force one and why we are reaching the president. Those same (33:26) loudspeakers, those same satellite radios played back to life. The F 15s never fired.

(33:31) It was amazing American heroes on board your Tom Burnett, Todd Beamer. So there we are (33:36) elated that we didn’t shoot it down, but we have another airliner on the ground. So we were caught (33:41) between elation and despair in that moment.

There was, was Condi writes with you? Yes. Yeah. (33:49) She, she’s a hero.

She’s amazing. Um, she proved to me that the most vertical chain of command (33:57) can lay down completely horizontal. And she was willing to do anything to defend America, (34:03) to do her job, to be the best she could be.

She would have gotten me a sandwich if I was hungry, (34:07) or she was willing to tell the president, we need to move, you know, our forces into Europe right (34:12) now, or, you know, into, into combat somewhere around the world. She was the most impressive (34:18) asset, you know, I say asset at national level asset we had that, that day. Yeah.

That’s what (34:22) I was going to ask you guys is, is there anybody who stood out, you know, on the positive or (34:26) negative? And I think we were, maybe I already did ask that once, which, which you mentioned (34:30) Rumsfeld and Condi rice and anybody else that you guys would say. I just, I think maybe I would (34:38) just say that while none of us were all there in those private security meetings, you know, (34:44) I had the honor and benefit of being in meetings before that. And even after that with vice (34:51) president Cheney and you know, Dr. Condi rice, you know, secretary Rumsfeld, it’s amazing the (34:59) experience that they brought.

They’re so calm, their disposition, the way they present things (35:05) in meetings to the president, the way they outline history and, and they come forward with (35:10) all these different options. And then maybe really for them, what they think is the best path forward.(35:15) I just felt so calm and honored to have seen it for myself.

And I think sometimes if there’s one (35:23) thing that I always wished when I was at the white house is I wish everyone that I knew could be with (35:29) to witness these moments, to see the intellect, the talent, the decision-making process, and just (35:37) the moments of history. When it’s just you being a part of it, you wish everyone you knew could be (35:43) in the same room with you to witness it as well. I would say I was never more proud of the, of just (35:50) the way they handled themselves, the way they thought about people, the weights that they had(35:55) to deal with and, and the president as well.

I mean, the president often gets chastising or (36:02) misspelling words or saying things, but I was in meetings where he would ask that one question (36:09) that nobody knew. And you would be surprised because you have such smart people around, (36:15) but he was curious. He did ask a lot of probing questions.

He did ask a lot of great questions. (36:21) Um, yeah. And in this moment you saw it, you know, not just that day, but the days after.

(36:28) You think that rubbed off on you? I mean, I, I mean, I, I, I was here and I was with my dad and (36:34) we walked out and he said, that’s got to be one of the smartest people I’ve ever encountered (36:38) talking about you. Me? You? Oh, no. Well, he doesn’t, he doesn’t get out much.

(36:43) I have this unique honor. There’s a demeanor about you. I do have a, such an honor that I feel blessed (36:52) that at such a young age, I started working for George W. Bush, um, when he wasn’t a governor or (37:00) a president, he was just, you know, he owned a baseball team and, but I’ve learned so much.

(37:08) And I think of, I’ve thought a lot about this. I think moments bring out what’s already inside of (37:14) you. It just exposes whether you can handle it or not.

And what I always have always treasured (37:21) is that the president saw in me, maybe a capacity that over time, he just kept allowing me to do (37:28) more. And I was able to demonstrate because you can’t work at the white house because someone (37:33) likes you. You actually have to remember, I mean, when I walked through the gates, when he got sworn(37:39) in, we went to the white house.

I felt the weight. I was so young. I was in my twenties, but you feel (37:46) the weight and you’re like, you feel like this is so serious.

All I want to do is work so hard to (37:53) make sure I provide the best information for them to make the best decisions because it impacts so (37:58) many people. And when you walk through the gates of the, of the white house, you, you, history comes (38:05) and brings you and brings it forward to you. And, um, you then start to see the talent that’s around (38:11) you.

And, and that’s why I was honored to work for an administration of so many smart, capable people. (38:17) So that’s why I keep asking Bob all these questions, because I think that moment brings out in people (38:23) their, their ability to understand the gravity and then make really good decisions. So I’m going to (38:29) give it back to Bob.

Wow. Thanks. And that was really what I took too, is the courage to make (38:36) crisis leadership type decisions.

It’s one thing when we have time and I can go, John, what do you (38:40) think is real? How about you? You know, over to you, Matt. All right, here’s what we’re going to do. (38:44) But when people’s lives are at stake and seconds are counting down and there’s no one around,(38:49) can you cross the action line? Can you make it happen? And that’s what we saw and right or wrong (38:55) authority or no authority, everyone in that room would have followed vice president Cheney up the (38:59) highest hill.

He was moving America forward. He was defending the homeland. He was getting our (39:05) military, you know, doing what they needed to do to, to stop these terrorists from succeeding(39:11) and crashing these airliners into national landmarks.

I remember that day though. Um, (39:17) I mean, George W. Bush became a personal hero of mine on that day. And, you know, he got so much (39:22) accolades as he should have when he went up to New York and stood there at the site of the towers (39:26) and, you know, said, we’re not going to stand for this, but, but it’s often overlooked the courage (39:32) and the character and the self-control it must’ve taken when he was speaking in front of that school (39:38) group and somebody whispered in his ear, Mr. President, the country’s under attack.

And you (39:44) look at his face and I mean, he didn’t just go berserk. He didn’t do, he was, he didn’t want to (39:50) scare those children. And, but can you imagine what’s running through his mind? And he, he ended (39:55) it early, but he ended it appropriately and left without, without doing, I thought, what, (40:01) what character it takes to do that? I mean, that moment, I think is one of the best moments in (40:04) American history.

He could have just said, this is more important than, you know, the attacks are (40:10) more important than this, than the school. Yeah. I got to jump.

No, but to take a few minutes and (40:14) end that properly and to care for those kids who are right there, I mean, that’s a real sensitive (40:19) thinker who would do that. I was very impressed by that. That was Andy Card who mentioned it.

(40:24) He must’ve had some trust though, in his team though, too, to, to be able to behave like that (40:28) and not think I have to be the only one that can react so fast to this, that he had to have (40:35) had some trust. I would say the president had so much trust in his team. I mean, here you have (40:41) Andy Card, a very experienced statesman.

You have Condoleezza Rice, you know, Rumsfeld. I mean, (40:48) just go down the list. It’s an A team in many ways.

It’s kind of amazing. But when you walked (40:53) out of the Pentagon, where did you go? So we, we stood out there for about 45 minutes or so (40:59) watching this, this go on. It was amazing because all these people have all these conspiracy ideas.

(41:04) There were pieces of the plane that blew out all over the place. I was standing by a little(41:08) chunk of the plane. And again, your adrenaline’s so high that you’re not really, I mean, you’re (41:14) not really thinking clearly on this.

So I looked down and just, there was a loose bolt sitting (41:19) there. And I thought, wow, this is a piece of history now. It’s terrible as it is to admit (41:24) that.

I thought, I’m going to take that bolt with me. And I thought, no, we’re, we’re flying home (41:27) tomorrow. And I thought maybe there was a bomb on board.

And, and so I shouldn’t take this. It was (41:32) a stupid train of thought. I mean, it was later in the day when I saw the towers come down and I (41:37) really contemplated how many people just died.

It was devastating. And you just felt like you’re (41:43) going to throw up, but when you’re, when your adrenaline’s that high. So we stayed there for (41:47) a little while.

Then we said we were going to go, we were with a three-star general who was (41:52) accompanying us and he was staying up at Fort Myers up, you know, just past Arlington cemetery (41:56) there. And so we decided we’d walk back there. I’ll never forget the woman who was our escort (42:01) said, okay, I’m going to need your badges back.

I’m like, okay, why did I give it back to her? (42:05) I mean, it said September 11th, 2001. I mean, that just would have been interesting to have (42:10) for that. But we walked away and I remember we were walking back and… (42:13) Fort Myers is elevated too.

(42:14) Yeah, it’s elevated. And it was a ways away. And when we were walking, I remember we heard some (42:19) giant noise and the general turned to me and he said, that’s not good.

And I think it was when (42:23) part of the building collapsed and we went up there and Fort Myers was wild because that was where the (42:29) Joint Chiefs was staying at the time too. And literally every 10 feet they were checking our (42:33) IDs. And so we went back there and then we went in and we watched the television and saw what was (42:39) happening.

And then we ultimately went, we had lunch there and once the Metro opened back up, (42:45) we went downtown DC. But that was probably the most jarring thing of all. You guys saw it,(42:49) that we were wandering around the city all day and this place was on lockdown.

(42:53) The only sounds you heard were sirens. You could see the smoke rising across the(42:58) Potomac from the Pentagon because that fire burned for days there. But we were staying just (43:03) a block and a half away from the White House at the Army Navy Club there on 17th and I. So we were (43:07) real close.

(43:08) Close to the White House. (43:09) Real close. And so there was a perimeter set up around it.

It was just unnerving seeing that, (43:15) but then, I mean, the sights and sounds I’ll never forget. I remember watching them (43:18) take down, lower the flag above the treasury building. I remember watching the helicopter (43:23) with the president on it when he returned to the White House.

I mean, (43:27) this was just literally like being in the twilight zone. We’d never seen anything like it. (43:31) So John, you were there to make a different film.

(43:33) Yeah. (43:34) Right. And then they ended up ultimately, they hired you to make a memorial for the Pentagon.

(43:40) It was wild. (43:41) The documentary. (43:41) So we ended up five years later making this film, (43:44) sort of telling the great stories about Arlington National Cemetery.

I mean, (43:48) this is our national treasure. These are the people who have paid the price for our freedom. (43:52) And it’s all right there on display.

And so doing that film, we worked with chairman of the Joint (43:57) Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, General Myers, just a great, great man. And he didn’t even (44:03) realize we were at the Pentagon that day, but he got really involved with the building of the (44:07) Pentagon 9-11 Memorial as they were building that and opening it up. And he recommended us to the (44:12) Pentagon Memorial people to produce the film on it.

And they call, I’ll never forget the call. (44:17) I got a call saying, General Myers recommended that I reach out to you. We’re talking about doing (44:23) a film to be released and to coincide with the dedication of the Pentagon 9-11 Memorial.

Would (44:30) you have any interest? And I said, not only would I have any interest, I feel like it’s my duty (44:34) because we were there that day and they had no idea. And so coming full circle, we ended up (44:39) getting to know all these families who lost their, I could tell you, you ask them, we’re 25 years (44:45) almost out. I guarantee it’s like yesterday to all these people and telling the story of the (44:49) memorial and the families who were lost.

It became real personal for us, not just because of 9-11, (44:55) but because of working with the Pentagon Memorial. Wow. I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the (45:00) knock.

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I mean, I was writing some notes out last night in preparation for today. And (45:36) you know, that’s what hits me about you two, you know, about John and Bob specifically is that (45:43) you’ve taken this on as a calling, right, to make this your duty to share the story, (45:51) you know, and you consistently, right, over the last 15 years. And it’s just remarkable.

And, (45:57) you know, who would have thought that that would have been the tap on your shoulder to be that or (46:01) to be the guy to do that? I mean, you know, 10 years prior, nobody would have thought that. (46:06) It was President Bush and his comment, his quote in front of that joint session of Congress on (46:13) September 20th, when he told the whole world, I will not forget the wound to our country and those (46:19) who inflicted it. I will not yield.

I will not rest. I will not relent in waging this struggle (46:23) for freedom and the security for the American people. What more of a calling do you need other (46:29) than those words? I mean, you’re wearing the uniform of the United States.

You need to go and (46:35) defend this country and defend it today is doing things like this, meeting people like you and John (46:42) and Israel to say, are we prepared? Are you doing your job to fill those gaps and risks? Have you (46:49) trained your people? Where would you go if this place, something happened here? Would they go to (46:54) an alternate site? Could they rally somewhere without communications? I’m trying to build this (46:59) grassroots resilience at the lowest levels on them. (47:03) These people’s stories could do that. I mean, we talk about one thing I love in this line of work, (47:07) and you’re seeing it, Matt, with their podcasts is you can see what a person’s really like when (47:11) the camera’s not on.

And we got to interview, uh, vice president Cheney in the old executive (47:17) building there for this documentary. And I’ll never forget that he was saying something to (47:21) honor those who are lost. And he said, you know, hold on, can you turn off the cameras? And he looked (47:26) and he said, I really want to honor these people.

And I mean, he was, that wasn’t on camera. And he (47:30) thought about what he was going to say. I just, and you saw, this is what people need to remember.

(47:35) I never forget interviewing Elaine Donovan, who was, um, her husband was killed in the Pentagon. (47:40) And she went and she got her kids that day. And she knew she couldn’t get ahold of him.

She knew (47:45) where his office was. So she knew he wasn’t coming home. These kids’ father wasn’t coming (47:49) home.

And she said to me in the interview, she said, so I got the kids home and I made them a (47:54) big meal because I figured that they wouldn’t be eating for a while. And I thought, oh my gosh,(47:58) stop right there. Only a mom would think of that.

Like a caring mom would think that the kids need (48:03) some food before we, before we do this. I mean, I can go on with all these stories of people. (48:07) We, uh, one man who became a part of the board of this, he was just talking and he got all choked (48:13) up.

He said, I just miss sitting by her at night. He lost his wife there. He says, we didn’t even (48:18) have to be talking.

I just miss looking at this couch that we were sitting on. And he said, and (48:22) not seeing her there. I mean, these are real stories that we tend to move on as a country, (48:26) but I mean, as we’re coming up on the 25th anniversary next year, I hope we remember (48:31) these, these.

Well, I’m so glad we’re actually doing this now that we’re in the middle of talking (48:35) about this, because when you think about it, 25 years, we have a generation, more than a generation(48:42) of people who weren’t even there or didn’t experience it, have no concept of it. So(48:47) how does it relate to them? And I also am glad because it’s a moment to honor and give tribute (48:53) to all the people there. I didn’t realize how much it affected me.

I’m not that much of an emotional (49:00) person. Like I don’t like, I don’t cry. Uh, I mean, I cry of course, but not on a whim and all these (49:05) stupid things.

But on the fifth anniversary, I saw this tribute that CNN was doing. And (49:14) I don’t know if it was just a lot of emotion from that moment of 9-11 that I just finally (49:20) let go. But I started watching the early segment of it and I just started crying.

Like tears just (49:28) come down my face and I had to stop and say, what’s going on? And I think it just, I just (49:35) ended up remembering the families that were impacted just the day there of like how much (49:41) had changed and being a witness to it at such a young age. Yeah, it was, it was amazing how much (49:48) it touched me. So having these podcasts, having a moment of tribute, remembering the people that (49:54) it impacted, or just trying to figure out, you know, how can we learn from a moment like this (49:58) is actually a great thing.

Yeah. Thank you. You know, when you talk about the emotion, I, (50:04) we went to, um, New York city for, for my wife’s best friend for her 50th birthday, (50:10) we surprised her and, and, and met the other couple there and, and her husband’s a lot more (50:15) organized than I am.

So he was, he was setting up different tours and things like that. And (50:18) they had a tour set up to go to the, to the 9-11, the 9-11 tour. Okay.

The ground zero tour. (50:25) And we didn’t sign up for it at first. We signed up last minute and we ended up going, (50:30) and we weren’t with them.

So it was just, just the two of us. And that I could not believe (50:36) the impact that that had. And I think every American should have to go, (50:40) should, it should be required for school, uh, to be able to, to, to have to go to that (50:45) because the, the tour is put on, it’s a walking tour put on by survivors.

That’s, that’s, who’s (50:52) walking you through this. So they got a little speaker on them and they’re talking to their (50:55) little microphone. And at first you’re, you know, you just think this is kind of, kind of hokey, (50:59) right.

And then they explain, I was there. This is where I was that that’s the building (51:04) that I was in, or that’s the building that used to be there. I was in that and had to run out of (51:09) it or whatever, whatever their story is.

And the buildup that I had going through that walking to (51:16) and going to then, then seeing the pools and everything and seeing the placards, uh, you know, (51:21) on the fire station of the whole, the whole fire station that was, that was all killed. (51:25) Cause they were the first ones in. That was the 1010 house.

Yeah. Yeah. I just stood at (51:29) those pools and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed.

Couldn’t believe it. Yeah. Oh, go ahead.

(51:38) I was going to say 325 firefighter brothers and sisters were wiped out in one day. You know, (51:45) we lost 59, I believe was a number of port authority police officers. One day, one,(51:49) one hour and 45 minutes gone.

So yeah, it just knocked the earth off its axis. (51:56) And those are guys though that are, that are trained to be, you know, trained to be brave, (52:00) right? You had people who were just trained to be punching stuff in a computer, you know, and, (52:06) and look at the fear and the, you know, the terror that was caused there. And there’s a, (52:10) there was a line.

I was watching John’s documentary and talking about the, what terrorism (52:16) really is. Do you, do you remember the, the line and talking about terrorism and what (52:21) terrorists really are doing and how they affect the people that are free the most? (52:26) That’s right. Right.

Could you, could you, well, I can’t remember that. I remember the (52:30) point we were making of what the intent of terrorism is. Which line are you talking about? (52:36) It was, it was a terrorists terrorize and free people are the most vulnerable.

That was the (52:40) note that I took. And I thought about that and I’m like, you know, cause yeah, here we are, (52:46) we’re free. We’re whistling Dixie, right? The people in Russia or China, they know that there’s (52:51) something draconian over their head.

Well, for sure. Yeah. You know, or, or if you’re walking (52:56) around Israel and you see, you know, automatic weapons are where you kind of know you’re living (53:00) in a little different.

You’re right. I mean, from a logistics standpoint, we are more vulnerable (53:05) because we choose to, we choose to allow ourselves to be more vulnerable so we can live life to its (53:10) fullest. I mean, if we’re in beautiful Harbor Springs, Michigan right now, you know, there are(53:14) ways we could make ourselves more secure, but that’s not what America is all about.

And we take (53:19) on this risk. And I think it makes the terror, the terrorists know this, they know that they (53:24) can disrupt our life. And the point of terrorism, you guys would know, Bob would know it better (53:27) than any, both of you would with your background, isn’t just to kill those immediate people.

It’s (53:32) to cause chaos and fear and break down our entire system here. That’s the goal of terrorism is to (53:38) magnify those murders into something that radically changes our, because people don’t like that we (53:44) live like this. And so, yeah, it’s amazing, but I want to say something about those memorials (53:49) because Bob was just mentioning this and it’s important.

And you were saying this, people (53:54) need to go see these and they need to take the time and just lock in on a name or two and wonder (54:00) about that person. And you could probably search those people out and just that in and of itself (54:06) is a tribute. And it’s important that we do that.

I was, I saw this in, in New York. I had never (54:11) been to the World Trade Center Memorial until last year. And I wanted to go see it.

So we went (54:15) out there and saw it. And I just happened to be browsing names and I saw Dave Laycheck. I’m like, (54:20) boom, all of a sudden, like my heart literally skipped a beat because Jim Laycheck was the one (54:24) who was the head of the Pentagon Memorial.

And I hadn’t talked to Jim in probably 12 or 13 years. (54:29) We just lost, ended up losing contact. And I didn’t even know if his cell phone was the same, (54:33) but I, I just texted him just in case I said, Jim, I’m, I’m seeing your brother, thinking about you (54:38) and your brother right now.

I just saw his name at the World War or the World Trade Center Memorial. (54:43) And I said, I’m praying for you guys. And he wrote back and he said, thanks for remembering him.

I (54:48) mean, this is really important stuff for people to do this. And we need to wonder about these (54:52) people who are lost. Well, I think, you know, I mean, when you, when you hear things on the news (54:55) about how much it costs to move the president from here to there, or you hear about how much (55:00) they invested in this, this documentary or this this memorial, you know, in front of the Pentagon, (55:06) and it’s these multi-millions of dollars or the, or the, the World Trade Center, right? We’re, (55:11) we’re letting this piece of real estate just sit empty with these big pools.

I mean, you could look (55:15) at that from a business perspective, or even just from a, just being judgmental. And you could say, (55:20) oh, that’s, that’s silly. And I say, go there.

I dare you to walk away thinking that that’s silly. (55:27) Yeah, absolutely. (55:28) Boy, that’s powerful.

Those fountains, it’s powerful stuff. It’s hollowed ground. (55:34) But Bob, I want, I’m going to keep coming back to you because we’re not done with the day.

(55:37) No, that’s for sure. (55:38) Okay, we’re, we’re, we’re like at 1045 and we still have a whole day. So you go back because (55:46) I’m remembering these moments that you were helping lead where I was still in DC (55:52) waiting to figure out what’s next, because we were in an office waiting, still in contact (55:59) with Andy Card, chief of staff with the president on the plane.

We don’t know where, (56:06) but what’s going on? (56:08) So we just got past flight 93. President’s now on board Air Force One. He’s heading West.

(56:15) Continuity of presidencies in effect. We’re separating the president from the vice president (56:20) and he decides, you know, they decided to take him West. When all of a sudden we’re down there (56:26) again.

And this time secret service call in and go, we got an unidentified aircraft, eight miles (56:31) out, low and fast heading for the white house. So I turned Mr. Vice president. We got another bogey.

(56:38) We call it a bogey because we don’t know what it is. If it’s a bad guy, we’ll elevate them to band (56:43) it. So we’re using the term bogey and he’s coming right at us.

He turns to the wall, calls Donald (56:49) Rumsfeld on the speaker phone, who is in the national military command center. He goes, (56:53) Hey, Don, we got a bogey at six miles out low and fast inbound. Do we have an asset that can take a (57:00) shot at this guy? And at 15 and F 16 F 18, a fighter over Washington, DC.

And he goes, we’re checking. (57:07) We don’t have it yet. We’re checking.

We’re checking. And then all of a sudden that we’re (57:10) counting down four, three, and he goes, Don, he starts yelling, Don, I’ll authorize an over the (57:19) shot. No visual confirmation required.

If you can lock onto him from Baltimore, shoot him, (57:25) shoot him. And I said, Mr. Vice president, two miles. He goes, stop counting.

If the secret (57:31) service can’t deal with it on the roof, everyone stand by for impact. I put my hands in the console (57:37) in front of me. Couldn’t believe it.

The world’s greatest military superpower didn’t have a (57:41) response. When all of a sudden the loudspeakers blared the life. That’s not a bogey.

That’s an (57:47) army medevac helicopter carrying six army doctors from Fort Belvoir, 10 miles to our south (57:54) to the Pentagon, not talking on the right frequency. Oh gosh. Think about this crew.

(58:00) They took off. We got lives to save burn victims of the Pentagon. And the protocol is when you’re (58:05) five miles outside of Washington, DC, you call Reagan national airport for permission to enter (58:10) the airspace.

Reagan national evacuated with the flyover of flight 77. So no one called them back. (58:18) They can see the Pentagon burning.

We got six doctors on board. Let’s go. And they decided (58:23) let’s get low and fast.

And hopefully nobody notices. And on our sensors, our defensive (58:29) sensors, we picked them up and we were trying to do everything and anything to kill them. (58:37) Wow.

That’s crazy. Well, it just shows you the mayhem of the moment. (58:42) Yes.

They called it fog of war. It would have been a tragedy and we would have just (58:47) chalked it up to fog of war, but we would have killed six doctors going to save lives and an air (58:52) crew. Wow.

So that’s enough right there to shake you down. We just couldn’t believe it. And that’s (58:58) when we decided to, uh, vice president Cheney talking to president Bush cleared the skies,(59:03) every airplane coast to coast on the ground, do it now, not a ground stop in Boston or LA or New York.

(59:10) So let’s ask this though. So you, you mentioned the word mayhem and my, my notes. I bet I, when (59:14) Bob called the fog of war, you know, he talks about all these, a couple of near misses, right.

(59:20) And so I’m calling them like the miracles in the mayhem. So, so we have the medevac copter (59:26) not getting shot down. Correct.

We have that the rumble over the white house was the, (59:33) was the, uh, the funny looking, uh, yep. Going, going over the white house, (59:39) heading down towards the president. It wasn’t flight 93.

It wasn’t flight 70. It wasn’t flight (59:44) 77. I’m sorry.

Um, what are some, what are some of the other miracles in the mayhem? And, and, (59:50) and you guys might’ve seen them right there, you know, on the ground, right. What, what, (59:55) what would you, what would you say were miracles in the mayhem? Well, I want to say one thing(1:00:01) that I found inspiring and emotional vice-president Cheney making all these tough calls. (1:00:07) Let’s take lives out of the sky to save them on the ground.

You know, who was right here? (1:00:10) His wife telling him she didn’t go sit at a table in the conference room. She stood right next to (1:00:16) him telling him in his ear, you keep doing it. You do what you know is right.

You make the tough call (1:00:22) and you can see him pulling inspiration from her. And she was like, you keep going. This is (1:00:29) important.

You’re saving lives. And he did it and he stayed in the game, but she would not leave (1:00:35) his side. You were never going to peel her him away from her on that.

Wow. And then what happened? (1:00:43) Well, you love all these only because I was there. I mean, I’m, I was waiting to hear, (1:00:49) they kept saying, stay there.

Don’t leave, stay in DC. Meanwhile, everyone in DC is evacuated. (1:00:56) You have cars that were just parked, not even parked.

They were just left on the street. (1:01:00) So you were being told differently than, than what the rest of the general public (1:01:04) was being told to evacuate and you were being told to stay?(1:01:07) To know, to just, to really, um, what we didn’t know what was next. So not that we had security (1:01:15) clearance to be in the military team, that we were, we were there to support the president (1:01:21) if he ever came back.

And if we had left, there wouldn’t be enough of a support team to help. (1:01:28) So at least stay united. (1:01:29) We stayed.

And then, um, later in the day when we heard he’s coming back, (1:01:35) he was going to address the nation. He added, we had to come back and help. (1:01:41) Well, what happened next was really a proud moment.

We went from taking body blows from (1:01:46) terrorists to being caught on our heels to try to catch up to looking for, you know, (1:01:51) secretary of defense and everybody to get in position. The president wanted to go into (1:01:57) Barksdale, Louisiana, Barksdale air force base, because he wanted to talk to the American public. (1:02:01) But right before he did that, he had had enough.

And he called on the SATCOM radios (1:02:08) for an air threat conference. An air threat conference is a cabinet level meeting in the sky. (1:02:14) It doesn’t matter where you are.

You could be in Japan. You better open your briefcase, (1:02:18) dial the air force one. The president wants to hear from you.

He wanted to know from his team, (1:02:23) his cabinet level secretaries, what is happening in your AOR area of responsibility. And what are (1:02:28) you doing about it? And as they were going around the horn, you had 15 seconds to talk to the (1:02:33) president. It was the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, who said, I recommend we take (1:02:37) our nuclear weapons from defense condition four up to DEFCON three, defense condition three.

(1:02:45) Five is peace. One is imminent nuclear war. But Mr. President, it doesn’t matter if you’re a (1:02:51) sailor in Australia, you know, a Marine in Japan or a soldier in Germany, everyone move when a (1:02:59) DEFCON condition changes.

And it was the quickest way to get the U.S. military on a level footing (1:03:04) back to work and prepare for war. And when he came back and said, as Dr. Rice is sitting next (1:03:10) to me, it’s a great idea. I’m standby for DEFCON two.

Wow. So unbelievable. And sure enough, (1:03:18) vice president Cheney turned to Dr. Rice and said, do it.

She picked up the red phone, (1:03:22) called over to the Pentagon executive order of the president of the United States, (1:03:27) move our nuclear weapons from defense condition four to DEFCON three, standby DEFCON two. (1:03:34) We buttoned up the mountain, Cheyenne mountain, Colorado, home of NORAD, first time in history in (1:03:39) anger. And we listened to that four star combatant commanders call every four star combatant (1:03:45) commander around the world.

And we heard central command, Pacific command, European command, (1:03:51) Southern command, joint forces command, strategic command, NORAD. We are DEFCON three, (1:03:59) standing by DEFCON two. We’re going to war.

We just don’t know who we’re going to war with yet. (1:04:06) President Bush took control and said, now we’re on offense. I’m tired of taking- (1:04:11) Well, and the enemy has changed.

It’s not an army. It wasn’t a military. It’s, (1:04:18) you know- (1:04:18) Yeah, it’s a terrorist organization.

(1:04:19) It’s a terrorist organization. (1:04:22) But that’s so reassuring as an American. I mean, that reminds me, just to remember how powerful (1:04:27) this country is.

I remember we worked with a different general who had been in charge of (1:04:31) this sort of air war over Kosovo. Remember that? And I was interviewing him about something on a (1:04:36) different project. And he said, you know, John, everybody on earth should understand (1:04:41) that the United States military is so powerful, so organized that we can destroy any target on(1:04:48) earth within 24 hours.

I just sat there in awe. I mean, people, as they want to take shots on us or (1:04:54) saber rattle like Iran and all these guys, well, I think we just showed Iran we can do that. But (1:04:58) that gives you real pride.

The amount of time and effort that we’ve poured into our defense, (1:05:06) it’s important in moments like that. (1:05:08) Absolutely. We cheered his name, you know, as he went into Barksdale.

We lost (1:05:12) the North Tower right after that. So we had to call him and tell him we had 40,000 dead (1:05:17) Americans was our best guess in New York City, 40,000 dead. Thank God that wasn’t, you know, (1:05:24) the truth.

And, but why wasn’t it the truth? It wasn’t because the U.S. military did such a great (1:05:29) job that day. It was regular, ordinary Americans, people that come here that decided to come out of (1:05:37) their offices, help a complete stranger find a safe place to go. Shopkeepers opening up their (1:05:43) doors, giving away food, housing, shelter, whatever it is.

People getting carried down (1:05:48) the stairs and the towers, firefighters, everybody going up the stairs. America really showed if, (1:05:54) you know, we can bicker, but when we’re attacked, that’s a, that’s a titanium American line. (1:06:01) So after the call with the cabinet members?(1:06:03) I just stopped asking my questions.

I just deferred. (1:06:07) So the president was on the ground at Barksdale. (1:06:10) Yeah, I remember that.

(1:06:11) He wanted to talk to the American public. We were cheering him on, you were cheering him on, (1:06:15) and we wanted to get him airborne again. Where are we going to take him? Where’s he going to go? (1:06:19) And they decided right away that Offutt, Nebraska, home of strategic command would be an ideal place (1:06:24) for him.

But he was so anti, he had enough, he wanted to come home. It was now the security (1:06:30) protocols, the safety protocols that were keeping him out of Washington, DC. And we were preparing (1:06:36) for his, you know, return home as well.

We, the attack seemed to be over. Now we’re, you know, (1:06:42) the apparatus of the United States on the intelligence side and the military side, (1:06:47) the medical side, everything was in full motion. We were going to war and the president needed to (1:06:53) come back and talk to the American public about going to war.

He canceled continuity of presidency (1:06:58) in Offutt and said, I’ll be wheels up on Air Force One in 15 minutes, I’m coming home. (1:07:03) And when I get there, I want another presidential daily brief. He gets a brief every day by the CIA.

(1:07:10) And he had one that morning in Sarasota, eight o’clock in the morning. And he wants to know, (1:07:15) he’s going to get another one. And he wants to know who did it, where they are,(1:07:19) and what are his options to deal with it? I’ll see you all at 630.

And he was- (1:07:24) So that’s, after that, well, I don’t, can’t remember how we got informed that the president (1:07:30) was coming back because we were not on a secure line, but I do remember being informed that he’s (1:07:37) coming back and that we should get ready to go back to the White House in preparation for his (1:07:42) arrival, for his address. And leaving that office building, walking back through Lafayette Park, (1:07:51) you could hear a pin drop. There was nobody around except military protecting the perimeter, (1:07:59) outer perimeter of the White House.

And it felt like it was a movie set. (1:08:05) How could we be in Washington, D.C. with cars parked, left opened in the middle of the street, (1:08:13) military protecting the grounds around the White House, not a soul in sight, as quiet as it can be (1:08:19) in Washington. And walking back thinking, this is so unreal.

It’s so surreal. Yeah, (1:08:29) that was, it was a, it was a very crazy moment. How proud were we all watching the president (1:08:36) enter that Oval Office and tell our country that freedom’s going to be defended? Buckle up.

(1:08:44) Well, everyone, I’m sure, Namin, when you think back, was trying to figure out what is going on, (1:08:50) like what’s happening. And so to have the president come back and speak to everyone, (1:08:56) yeah, it was, it was a great, great decision. Yeah.

(1:09:01) You know, when I met you, Israel, I was so enamored really with your past, but the people (1:09:07) that I was, I’ve been telling are my heroes, Vice President Dick Cheney and the National (1:09:13) Security Advisor, you’re personal friends with. Oh yeah. And I’m like, tell them I’m proud of (1:09:18) them.

Tell these people like me that have posters and banners of them at home, that they were the(1:09:25) ones who stepped up to get America going through that, that storm. You know, you think about those (1:09:30) people though, like that you’re, that you’re talking about and think about how sometimes (1:09:33) the media or the public, they deduce them to certain things. Like, like, you know, (1:09:38) Cheney’s been deduced to, to being a pretty, um, heartless man.

Um, and then John can attest to, (1:09:48) no, you know, I got to see him off camera. Right. You know, these people, right.

And, and, and I know (1:09:55) you, and I know your character, you’re not going to associate or pal around with, you know, (1:10:02) these evil, the evil emperor. Right. Well, I mean, that’s why I’m going to go back to (1:10:07) what I said was every time.

And I, so many moments where I just wish everyone I knew could (1:10:14) be a witness to the character, the thought process, the deliberative conversations, (1:10:20) the way things were decided, the work that was done. I just wish people could be there with me. (1:10:30) And oftentimes when I want to talk about it, I feel like I’m bragging.

So I really don’t talk (1:10:36) about it to many people because if I say that I worked in the West Wing and I traveled on Air (1:10:41) Force One and I went on Marine One and I’ve been to Camp David and I traveled all over the world (1:10:46) with the president, it could sound like I’m bragging, but that was my life. That is how I (1:10:51) lived for several years. And I wish I could talk about it more, but I don’t want to sound like (1:10:59) I’m bragging, but I’m so proud of the people that I got to meet and work.

And I learned so much from (1:11:06) them about how to just think about things, how to analyze things, how to speak about things, (1:11:12) just how to really conduct myself. So, yeah, I was, I feel like it was a privilege and I learned (1:11:20) so much. And still today, I think about everyone.

I’m glad when you, when, when you share it. And I (1:11:25) mean, and I don’t, I think I got to know the character of you before I got to know the stories (1:11:31) of you. And I think that that’s the, that’s why when you, you know, I’m like, Bob, I’m like, (1:11:36) more stories.

Come on, Israel, come on. And because I know it’s not bragging. I want to hear it.

You (1:11:42) know, Nadine has this, this, this sign in our house that says, we didn’t know we were creating, we, (1:11:48) we didn’t know we were creating memories. We just, we just thought we were having fun. We didn’t know (1:11:51) we were creating memories or vice versa.

I can’t remember. But, but the, but think about your, (1:11:56) think about your experiences. Think about Bob’s experiences, John’s experiences is that (1:12:01) you didn’t know that you were part of history.

You didn’t know you were going to be part of (1:12:04) history when you, when you walked into George Bush’s office at the Rangers the first time, (1:12:09) you didn’t know you were going to be part of history. You know, maybe you thought it a little (1:12:14) bit more, John, because you were making historical videos, but. Well, I thought I was going to be (1:12:19) talking about history, not being, not being part of it.

But, but one, one thing, I mean, you, (1:12:25) you’re onto something right there. I deal with this all the time now in my current role is, (1:12:31) and I do meet my fair share of people who I think are doing this for their, for their own good. (1:12:35) No question.

There’s a number. But one thing that, that always stuck out with me, I have gotten the (1:12:41) pleasure to interview Mark Warner, Democrat Senator from Virginia, numerous times. I remember one time (1:12:47) he knows I’m a Republican, he’s a Democrat, neither one of us care.

And I was asking him (1:12:50) some questions. He said, John, you know, you, you got to remember one thing. Most of the people come (1:12:56) here just really want to do a good job.

I’m like, that’s the most simple statement you could ever (1:13:01) imagine, but it’s absolutely true. And I mean, we, politics is a blood sport right now. And I (1:13:06) remember, let’s not forget that how horrible people were to George W. Bush by the end of his term.

(1:13:13) They just hated his guts and everything about him. But the point is, these are good people who (1:13:17) are stepping up, trying to do the best they can in an inexact science. And they’re surrounded by (1:13:22) all kinds of people who’ve foregone other opportunities because they think they can (1:13:27) make a contribution to our country.

And so, I mean, I think things like 9-11 and hearing these (1:13:31) great stories of just people who are on the ground trying to do the right thing should remind us all (1:13:36) to take a deep breath and let’s give some of these guys a break. I don’t care if they’re Democrats, (1:13:40) Republicans, or whatever. There’s a lot of people who are sacrificing a lot trying to make this(1:13:45) country work.

But what about, are the ones that are showboating and that are there (1:13:51) for these other reasons, are they polluting the whole thing? You know what? So we can do a whole (1:13:58) nother podcast on this because I’ve been shocked by some of what’s going on. I don’t know whether (1:14:03) they’re polluting the whole thing or whether they are the product of a polluted society. (1:14:07) Because the way this politics are set up right now is that the people who say the most outrageous (1:14:13) things or punch the other side more tend to have more support from their base and get people back (1:14:19) home cheering them and get reelected easier than the guy who’s willing to operate from a position (1:14:24) of grace or civility.

Again, that’s a different podcast, but we talked about this beforehand. (1:14:28) That’s not a different podcast is what happened after 9-11 and how, you know, I wanted to, I (1:14:34) designed a whole thing and we couldn’t get it off the ground to produce another documentary,(1:14:38) which was called the Flags of September 12th. Because while something profound happened on 9-11, (1:14:44) something profound happened on 9-12, which we all remember.

Flags, that’s based on the idea (1:14:48) that flag sales went through the roof, like 5,000% in one day. But we saw that for that brief moment (1:14:53) of time, we were all Americans again. And we put aside all these differences.

And if you remember, (1:14:59) we were in a contentious time there. It wasn’t as hate-filled as what we have now. But in 2000, (1:15:04) the presidential election was decided by the Supreme Court.

I mean, it was an extremely (1:15:07) divided time. And all that went away after 9-11. Now we’ve all gone back to our own corners and (1:15:14) we’re punching each other again.

But why do we have to wait for something like that? You mentioned (1:15:18) this earlier, to bring us together. There’s so much that we have in common here. And it’s just (1:15:23) wrong to be fighting at each other’s throats all the time.

It blows my mind because we know so much (1:15:27) about human psychology. And so we know what’s happening here. And the economists are even (1:15:34) talking about it, that one of the things that could shake us away from having the next Great (1:15:40) Depression or whatever, based on a few different factors that they’re predicting in the 2030s, (1:15:46) is a great war.

A great war that unites us and helps to fix some of the monetary policy and fixes (1:15:54) the attitudes and brings us back together and unites us. And it’s like, if we already know (1:16:00) that, how about we just do it without the occurrence of having to create a war or having to create (1:16:07) catastrophe beforehand? And it blows my mind that we’re not smart enough as a society or united (1:16:13) enough. And maybe that’s where, I mean, I know leadership is where it’s got to start.

It’s got (1:16:19) to start at the top. (1:16:20) Well, I think we have an opportunity and we need to start with a resounding call that we’re done (1:16:25) with this division. And I think we’ve got a great opportunity.

Next year is the 25th anniversary (1:16:31) of 9-11 and it’s the 250th anniversary of our country. And I think that might be a good time (1:16:37) to issue this clarion call to stop. Let’s come together again and let’s vow to never be broken (1:16:43) up again like we have been over the past and to stop the forces which are pulling apart.

(1:16:48) And let’s do it this time without requiring a Great Depression or a great war to bring that (1:16:53) to pass. So let me ask this as a guy who understands commerce and as a guy who understands (1:17:00) human behavior from the military level, you’ve got a smirk on your face about this one and you don’t (1:17:06) look convinced that that’s going to happen. So would you guys speak into that a little bit? (1:17:11) I’ll let Bob go first.

(1:17:13) You always do that. But listen, America is great because we’re competitive because we like to win. (1:17:19) We boil everything down in our young youth sports to business school, to professional sports, (1:17:27) to business.

Everything is about winning over the competition, overcoming adversity, (1:17:34) getting to the next level, growing, exiting, making money in this capitalistic society. (1:17:39) It’s very difficult to say, I know you want to win, but why don’t we all just take a breather (1:17:47) and come back to the center? The thing is, we don’t have to give that up to make what you want (1:17:55) us to be possible. We got to find something to rally behind that we’re not competing for, (1:18:02) we’re competing to protect.

And the 250th anniversary of this great country of ours, (1:18:07) we can potentially rally around the flag. We just might have common ground, (1:18:13) but we’re never going to give up our sports. We’re never going to get up winning.

(1:18:17) The nature of the competition has changed, I think, over the past several decades. I hear it (1:18:22) all the time from people who’ve been involved in politics that it didn’t just used to be like this. (1:18:28) Yeah, you may have disagreements, but you didn’t hate this guy and want to see him (1:18:32) disappear from the planet earth.

It’s so vindictive now. It’s so vindictive. But I think also (1:18:37) what I’ve also learned being in government is that government is reactive in nature.

(1:18:43) There’s very few times that government has been a proactive voice. It does require,(1:18:49) that’s kind of when we find leaders who actually step up and find these moments of clarity (1:18:55) where we come to recognize by those words, man or woman, because I think I’m a huge fan of Dr. (1:19:03) Condoleezza Rice and the way she speaks of who we are as a nation. But it’s also Steve Hadley, (1:19:09) who was a national security advisor after Condoleezza Rice, who was an amazing, (1:19:13) is an amazing person.

It could be someone who is a mayor today or a governor or a business person (1:19:21) who can just bring back a sense of why it matters and why we should pay attention. (1:19:28) But I also, having been in government, I just see government’s very reactive. (1:19:34) Something has to happen for it to recognize it has to change.

And so I’m not going to look (1:19:40) to government for that. I’m going to look for voices within our country, wherever they may be. (1:19:46) And it may be a surprise of who that is, but we have seen it in history.

(1:19:52) No, we’ve seen it in history. And I know that we’ll see it again where people will stand up (1:19:58) and bring notice to something that has value within all of us, that we all stop what we’re (1:20:06) doing and say, you’re right. It’s worth it.

Our country is worth it. If nothing else, (1:20:12) for the sake of our children, for the sake of what we want to be, for the way we want to define (1:20:17) ourselves against what’s happening with the rest of the world. And I’m very optimistic about that.

(1:20:25) Without it having to take… (1:20:27) Without waiting for government to be the vehicle to do it. (1:20:31) What about without it being a war or something like that, that we have to roll behind? (1:20:35) You’re optimistic that it could be something less than that? (1:20:37) It doesn’t have to be a war. It could be a movement within our country that we finally (1:20:43) realize of value that people come and unify over something they find important.

And that voice (1:20:51) is someone who is coming, who will bring to people’s life a moment where they stop and realize (1:21:00) that, yes, together, there is such power to build a future that takes moment to recognize of how (1:21:12) beautiful of a country we live in and the richness that it has given us and find ways to build it for (1:21:20) the future of generations to come. And I profoundly believe in that because I’ve seen it and I know (1:21:28) it will happen again. So I’m very optimistic about that.

(1:21:31) Right. That makes me happy. (1:21:34) So well said.

(1:21:35) Well said. (1:21:35) Very well said. You know, I think we should wrap it up right there.

That was so (1:21:41) beautifully said. (1:21:42) Thank you. (1:21:43) And so profound.

So thank you for that. What do you guys think? (1:21:48) I think you can’t say it any better than that. And I think it captures the heart of this day (1:21:52) and the heart of what the call is for us.

(1:21:54) Where we need to go. (1:21:56) You know, from your young, early 20s, you were saying, you’ve been at the right hand of power. (1:22:01) You’re 15 feet away from the epicenter and you’ve seen it all and you’ve seen the good in people (1:22:08) and the decision making and what a perspective you had in your life around the seat of power.

(1:22:15) How lucky am I? (1:22:16) How lucky are you? (1:22:17) John, thank you. And of course, you know, Matt, thank you. But Bob, I just need to stop and (1:22:23) just tell everyone that having worked there and seeing all the different levels of power (1:22:31) and experience, I just want to say thank you because I know your job and what you did.

(1:22:39) And as I said earlier, I’m such in awe to be here with you and just want to say thank you for all (1:22:45) that you did, because at a moment of uncertainty, you brought such clarity of knew exactly what had (1:22:53) to be done. You worked in team and on behalf of the American people. And yeah, it’s an honor just (1:23:02) to be here with you.

(1:23:03) Thank you. And I feel the same about you and Senator John DeMouche over here. Thank you.

(1:23:08) Thank you all. Thank you, Matt. (1:23:09) You’re welcome.

(1:23:09) Bringing this team together. (1:23:11) You’re welcome. (1:23:11) And yeah, I think we should also maybe stop and remember the families and all those impacted who (1:23:17) today live thinking about a life that was cut short.

And I hope people today stop and realize (1:23:26) that maybe you should use this time to spend time with your family, maybe do the things you love to (1:23:32) do and maybe go help someone else in need. (1:23:36) You know, real quick, when you mentioned that, I couldn’t help but think back. Somebody asked me (1:23:41) about that day and I picked up slugs that morning, slugs that we have this HOV, the high occupancy (1:23:48) vehicle.

You can take strangers. You can pick up two strangers. You got three in the vehicle.

You (1:23:53) want to pay the toll. I never made eye contact with those two ladies in my car as I dropped them (1:23:58) off at the Pentagon that morning. And I thought about them.

Did they survive? One of the changes (1:24:05) I made to my life is to stop and make eye contact with everybody you meet, because you never know (1:24:10) if you’re ever going to see them again. And they were in my car. And I appreciated those bodies (1:24:17) so I could use the HOV, but I didn’t take the time to actually make eye contact with them.

(1:24:23) Well, hopefully, I mean, I’m so happy, Matt, that you’re doing this too. And maybe we take Israel’s (1:24:28) words there and Bob’s words there and do something this September 11th. You know, I always find (1:24:33) myself, I just sort of don’t want to do a lot on that day.

I don’t want to be around people. You (1:24:40) know, I think everybody should have at least a few moments of discomfort that day to remember (1:24:44) what happened. Don’t just go about your normal life.

Yeah, that’s nice. I agree. I agree.

(1:24:51) Man, 24 years ago, the world stopped for all of us in different ways and got really busy for others (1:24:59) like yourself. So thank you all for doing this together. You know, it was a great conversation (1:25:05) and I think we should pick it up again and we can probably go into the days after.

But right here, (1:25:13) I mean, I think this is honoring the victims and the heroes and this is one little way that we can (1:25:19) give back. And we’ll make sure that when this goes live, that we post your documentary, John, (1:25:27) on the Pentagon and your talk that you give so that everybody can experience that as well and (1:25:34) see the full cohesive timeline throughout. Okay, great.

So thank you all. Thank you. Thank you so (1:25:41) much.