(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes from (0:10) career shifts to life-altering decisions, and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

Well, here we are with another episode of the BLTNT (0:40) podcast. I’m Matt Loria, and I’m sitting here with my guest, Dan Weingartz. (0:44) Great to be here, Matt.

Thanks for inviting me. (0:46) Thanks for being a part of it. I have two separate bios that I pulled in off the internet about you, (0:51) but I decided I’m going to scrap that.

I’m just going to ask you, when people ask you, (0:56) what do you do, would you explain who you are and what you do? (1:01) Oh, sure. So, I guess starting with (1:07) husband and father. So, I’ve got a wonderful family.

My wife and I have been married for 28 (1:16) years, and we have four great adult children now. So, all kind of in the young adulthood, (1:23) two girls that are 23 and 21, and sons that are 20 and 18. And so, that is, (1:34) raising them has been kind of the best thing in my life.

Also, the CEO of W&P Management, (1:45) which is, I guess I would describe it as a family of family businesses. And so, (1:50) we are all in the power equipment and power sports industries. And so, we’ve got the (1:56) Weingarts Retail Stores, where we’re celebrating our 80th year, six retail stores in Michigan.

(2:02) And then a distribution company, Power Equipment Distributors, with locations in Richmond, (2:08) Michigan and McDonough, Georgia, that we serve. About a third of the country (2:15) as equipment distributors to dealers like Weingarts. And then BW Retail Solutions,(2:24) which is a e-commerce retailer of power equipment and power sports parts, (2:31) through various channels, primarily Amazon.

So, those businesses, and then the W&P Management, (2:40) I guess would say, is where I spend a lot of my time now. It’s kind of the support system (2:47) for all three of those. So, we do finance, HR, IT, and purchasing support for those businesses.

(2:56) And so, along with my partners, which, so there’s four third-generation partners in the business, (3:08) as well as five fourth-generation and some additional fourth-generation that are kind (3:14) of coming up through the business. And so, that’s another aspect of my life. And then I would say, (3:22) overriding all of that is that I would say I am a very proud Catholic and somebody who (3:30) hopes to live his faith in a serious way and have that inform everything that I do.

And so, (3:37) I always say that I’m a Christian first. That should be my number one identity. And then (3:43) that’s where it hopefully informs the husband and father and executive and the other things that I (3:51) have to do.

So, along the way, have gotten involved in some really awesome things that (3:59) maybe we’ll get a chance to talk about a little bit today, where some charitable organizations (4:05) that are doing incredible work that I’ve had a chance to get kind of intimately involved in. (4:11) And so, it’s been an unbelievable life. I am incredibly blessed and hope to continue to be (4:20) able to do, kind of going to show the gratitude for those blessings as I go forward.

(4:27) Awesome. I’m going to jump right along to what you said there. You actually said to me the other (4:35) day, we’re not called to be successful, only faithful.

So, I thought that was pretty, (4:44) I mean, exceptionally apropos for the man I know you to be. So, can you build on that a little bit (4:52) for us? Yeah. So, that’s a quote from Mother Teresa, Saint Mother Teresa now, is that I’ve (4:59) always really loved is that, and I would say, as I’ve gotten older has made a lot more sense to me (5:07) because I would say I spent a lot of my young adult life and as I was kind of building a career (5:16) and a family, I’m really focused highly on outcomes and really thinking about, (5:23) you know, we’ve got to be, you know, we’ve got to get this done.

We’ve got to, you know, (5:28) kind of hitting all of these milestones. And I’ve taken a lot different approach, (5:34) I would say, in the last decade or so, which is that, you know, we can do a lot of things (5:41) if we focus on what we’re doing, why we’re doing them, how we’re doing those things, (5:48) and allowing outcomes to be what they are. And I have found that to be kind of liberating (5:56) from a standpoint of not being so worried about things, not having so much anxiety over decisions.

(6:05) And, you know, and just frankly, you know, with all of my roles, there’s, you know, there’s a (6:10) number of high stakes decisions that you have to make, but understanding that, you know, (6:18) the process kind of is more important, you know, how, you know, what is it that’s driving those (6:23) decisions? I’ve become very particular, I guess, about, adamant about our values in our businesses (6:33) and how we are living those. And then I would say even personally of like, you know, what are the (6:40) decisions that I’m making? How do I think about these things? Because then it does take some of (6:46) the pressure off of, as I say, I’m just simply not smart enough to make all the right decisions. And (6:53) so you’ve got to kind of trust the process to say, I can live with whatever the outcome is, (6:58) if this is the way that I’m thinking about it, if I’m doing it for the right reason.

(7:02) I had a mentor and I’ve said this plenty of times before on other episodes that we’ve done. I had a (7:09) mentor who would say, resign your position as general manager of the universe. And, you know, (7:15) at the point in time when you do that and you stop, realize or start realizing that you cannot (7:19) control everything, even though you’ve got a powerful job and you’ve got a lot of people (7:24) that are responsible for you or you’re responsible for, and they’re responsible to you.

You know, (7:32) we can’t control it all. I listened to another interview that you did regarding(7:44) people of faith in the business and how they’re running their organizations. And in that you (7:51) said something really interesting that I wanted to make sure that we shared here, which was (7:56) you were talking about your career.

And I want to understand your career of when you (8:00) joined the organization and to where you are now. But you said I was unqualified at every point in (8:07) time because the business was growing so fast. I was always being put into something (8:11) that I was unqualified for.

So I will say that your statement about trusting, you kind of always had (8:18) to have that trust, you know, somewhere there because you knew that you didn’t know everything. (8:24) Yeah, no, that’s absolutely the part of where, yeah, that is my career is that. So I’ve really (8:32) had one job my whole life.

This is from age 13 till now is all been just a progression and (8:41) not always a straight line progression, I would say is like I’ve done lots of different things (8:46) because that’s what the business required. And never once was I qualified to do what I was doing (8:55) that, you know, I never had the requisite. But but it was a family business.

And and we were (9:00) fortunate to have a lot of growth. We certainly went through the pain that growth that you’re not (9:09) prepared for, you know, can bring. And so, yeah, I’ve always about the time that I start to feel (9:18) like maybe I might actually be decent at this.

There was always something else. And so it’s been (9:26) in hindsight, that has fed my personality and my kind of the way that I like to operate. I love (9:33) challenges.

And I do, you know, I kind of like the idea of of being underwater. (9:40) I will say less so as I as the older I get, I used to thrive on that, you know, as if I was (9:48) underwater than that was, you know, you can kind of outwork it and try to use, you know, whatever (9:53) you have. And those challenges really excited me, I would say.

Now, I very much like having things (10:00) more in front of me. And I think that’s a little bit of, you know, kind of understanding how we (10:05) change in life. And, you know, I do understand that the drives of the things that drove me before (10:13) are different now.

But but absolutely, that is my now 39 year career in the business has been one of (10:24) I’m always being, you know, kind of a little bit over my head and trying to figure it out as I went(10:30) along. Yeah, you, you had mentioned, you know, one of the questions that I asked you when we (10:36) were chatting the other day was, is there a is there a book or anything that’s kind of (10:39) helping to shape your thoughts? And I wonder, you know, you had mentioned a book called halftime. (10:45) Yep.

And I’m kind of curious, did you start to have some of these feelings about, boy, (10:52) I’m starting to think differently? Or was it was it just really great timing that the that the book (10:56) kind of came into your life and make sure that you explain to folks, you know, who don’t know(11:01) what it is? Let’s let’s bring them up to speed. Yeah. And I would say it’s it’s it’s reinforcing (11:09) a lot of my biases.

I got I got interested in in in reading the book. So halftime by Bob Buford (11:15) is is really about, you know, kind of having the second half of your life have significance, (11:22) especially for folks that maybe had a successful first half of their life. And the idea, it’s a (11:27) sports analogy that says, you know, you don’t you got to take some time in the middle there to figure(11:34) out, you know, kind of what adjustments you need to make for the second half.

And and so, (11:42) yeah, I would say the reason why I think it’s a good book. And but but I wouldn’t say it’s (11:49) life changing to me because it is reinforcing a lot of the things that that’s that have been on (11:54) my mind, I would say, I think, especially as my my children entered adulthood and kind of you get (12:01) that as a as a parent, kind of a sigh of relief that like they’re going to be OK. And they’re (12:10) even if it wasn’t always, you know, I would say, you know, in business, you know, they’re (12:16) at least on the surface or at least in my the story I was telling myself was always, (12:21) you know, you’re working for them and, you know, you want to do these things to (12:26) to, you know, make sure that as a husband and father, that you’ve, you know, prepared a good, (12:32) you know, a good life and of that.

It’s, you know, kind of apparent to me that like (12:38) they’re going to be fine, like they they’ve got their own skills and abilities and how they’re (12:42) going to impact the world. And then so it’s, you know, it’s very much of, you know, what what’s (12:50) next and how do I take, you know, these this desire to kind of attack challenges and and say, (12:59) how do I make it significant? Because I am different than I think a lot of folks. I do (13:05) not look forward to retirement.

I certainly there’s there’s pieces of maybe having more (13:11) control over your time or more, you know, time to that’s discretionary, I guess, you know, that (13:19) like that is the that that’s super attractive. But I also understand, like, I think I’ve got (13:30) more to offer. I think there’s more things that I would like to have an impact on in my life.

And, (13:36) you know, I ultimately would like to, oh, yeah, I guess just, you know, have some significance that (13:43) says, you know, maybe even outside, maybe within the business, because I think that’s certainly (13:48) one area. I’m not closed off to the idea that that’s that that’s a big part of what the second (13:54) half is. But I think I’m kind of still figuring it out of where, you know, what is the, you know, (14:02) what’s the next? How do you add significance? And I, you know, for me, it’s, I would say it’s (14:09) not about like legacy.

I think, you know, I hope that part of my legacy, legacy wise, (14:16) number one, I guess, I don’t think it, it means a lot to me. But, but that’s in what you instill (14:23) in your family, and kind of, you know, those values, both in my kind of immediate family, (14:29) and then with, you know, with, with the family business, and the employees and everything else (14:35) that comes along with that. But it’s just like, I think, I think we’re called for it.

I mean, (14:44) I, you know, so much of this always comes back to my faith is like, you know, there’s a lot of (14:51) work is good. And, and it’s, you know, it’s been given to us as a, as a way to be able to, (14:58) to make an impact on the world. And I, I’m grateful for, you know, I, I often say I was (15:07) given a bucket of gifts that are, are valued at this point in time, you know, a couple 100 years (15:17) ago, you know, a lot of my skills and abilities would have been, you know, would not have been (15:24) highly valued, a strong back would have been a lot better.

And I’m not necessarily good at that. (15:29) And so it’s a good time during the riding lawnmower era. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And so, (15:37) so yeah, I’m, I’m very interested in and, you know, try not to get in my head too much about, (15:44) you know, what it means, but very interested in trying to be purposeful about (15:48) what, what the second half of life is going to look like. You know, something coming up for me (15:54) is you had mentioned, you know, having that success in the first half of life, what would (15:59) you say to maybe a peer of yours that maybe hasn’t reached the certain successes and is now staring (16:05) down the barrel of second half? And, and, and how would you advise them to be looking at things? (16:12) Yeah.

So first and foremost is that, be careful of what, how you define what that success looks (16:20) like. Actually, I was just having a conversation a month ago or so with a, with a good friend of(16:28) mine and it was, you know, kind of has a small business and was talking about, you know, some (16:36) challenges and, you know, some regrets about, you know, kind of that maybe there was opportunities to, (16:43) to make it more successful and kind of reminded him of, you know, what he had built and, and (16:51) so much of it outside of the business with a, like a great marriage and a great family and, (16:58) you know, a group of friends that really love and respect him. And, and I am like, (17:03) you know, just, you know, first of all, be careful how you, you know, because, you know, I think, (17:10) I think that’s a danger for, you know, folks that like our business has been in all accounts very (17:17) successful.

But that does not necessarily mean that, that we’ve been successful doing it. Now, (17:23) I’m very happy with where it’s at and how we’ve gotten there and all of that. But so, so I guess(17:29) that’s the first.

And then the second is, you know, we see it in sports all the time of, you (17:35) know, you, you talk about teams and players that are second half teams, you know, and that they (17:41) come on stronger when, you know, after they’ve made some adjustments and they’ve done. So I think(17:46) that’s, and that’s, I think the, the, the interesting thing in this book is that it does (17:53) not have to be a continuation of what the first half of life is. It can be something that’s (18:00) totally different in a rewrite of, you know, kind of what the game plan is of, Oh, Hey, you know(18:07) what? Maybe I didn’t go, you know, cause very similarly folks that are very successful, but (18:15) maybe some of the relationships didn’t go as well as they hope.

We all, we all know plenty of folks (18:22) like that where from the outside looking in, people would say, wow, they’ve, they’ve had a (18:26) measure of success. And we know the, we know the personal wake that, that goes behind them. (18:31) Absolutely.

And, and, and that, that doesn’t have to be defining either. Like, you know, I think (18:36) using that second half to, to really concentrate on, you know, what do have, you know, what does(18:42) it mean to have, you know, really solid loving relationships and, and, and so I think there’s (18:50) so many of these things that just say, like, I think a lot of us get into and I certainly do. (18:56) So this is, this is no preaching.

This is me talking, you know, to myself as much as anyone is (19:02) on this kind of self image of I am who I am and I won’t be like, I don’t have any ability (19:11) to change. And I think we have so much more ability to, to change and, and to, to control (19:19) our future than, than we would ever imagine. And I see those opportunities.

I love it when I, (19:28) you know, lean into those opportunities to, to stretch myself and get out of, (19:32) get out of my own, you know, head or whatever. But I also know that my natural tendency is to say, (19:41) yeah, that’s just not who I am. And, and so, so I think, you know, you know, challenging and, (19:47) and I would say, you know, another theme in the book that is one that I firmly believe in and (19:53) one that we try to stress in our business and, and I tried it with my children is, (19:58) is to work from strengths also.

Like, I think spend way too much time (20:05) worrying about the things that we’re not good at. And instead of just understanding, like, (20:11) of course, like you, you’re not good at everything. Like you were saying about (20:14) being general manager of the, of the universe is like, of course we’re not like we’re given a (20:21) bucket of skills and abilities and life’s so much better when you work from the strengths of those.

(20:27) Then when you worried about, yeah, it’s always, it’s good to try to improve on deficiencies, (20:34) but it’s hard and it’s usually not fun. And so breaking through some of those, that’s, (20:40) that’s wonderful. But, but spend most of your time worrying about like, or, or, you know, (20:47) trying to figure out how can I take the strengths that I’ve been given and, and really use those to, (20:53) to do the things that I’m looking at.

(20:55) I agree that we’re in, I feel like my own management, you know, style is, is point out(21:03) the constructive criticism, right? You can work on this, you can work on that. And over the last (21:08) couple of months, I’ve been trying to focus on, okay, let’s go back to what’s the person’s wiring. (21:12) What are their strengths? Let’s focus on that.

Let’s find the wins and then, and then exacerbate (21:17) on those. Let’s take the B’s and turn them into A’s. Let’s stop trying to take our C and D skill (21:23) sets and turn them into B’s and A’s.

It just, it’s, it’s not worth it. The juice isn’t worth (21:29) the squeeze. That’s a hundred percent right.

And it’s frustrating. And you know, you, you just, (21:34) and you can accelerate things so much more quickly when you take, because, because that’s (21:40) when people are excited and they’re, they’re going to give you the most effort. I mean, I know I do (21:44) like when I can do the things that I, that I feel like I’m kind of naturally good at, (21:49) um, that’s energizing when I’ve got to do the things.

Uh, if I got to sit down and, um, like (21:56) read contracts, I just know that’s going to be a low energy day for me. I actually try not to, (22:00) like, if I know I’ve got a lot of detail work that I, I, I’m not good with them. Like, and I know, (22:06) but the job is like, sometimes you just have to do it.

But I intentionally, I don’t want to have (22:11) a lot of important meetings that day. I don’t want to have a lot of other interaction because (22:16) I know that I’m going to be kind of miserable. Yeah.

(22:19) Yeah. Listen, you listen to your energy, right? I know that I’m, I’m not, I might, (22:24) I might kick the dog, you know, if I go home after reading too many contracts. (22:29) Yes.

(22:29) Um, you know what I like though, about the conversations that we’ve had and, and people (22:33) hear me talk about, you know, Patrick Lencio and I got a picture of him behind my desk. It was (22:37) the ideal team player is humble, hungry, and smart. And I always think humble when I think of (22:43) you.

And when you were talking about gifts, you know, you, you said, you said to me earlier that,(22:49) not in this episode, but when we were talking the other day, that intelligence and privilege, (22:54) that you look at those as, as unearned gifts, you know, it’s like, it’s like you said something to (23:00) the effect of, it’s like being born tall. Yes. There are certain things that you were born with.

(23:04) Maybe that’s why people gravitate towards you as a leader and they want to do good for you is (23:10) because you acknowledge some of those things that maybe other people don’t acknowledge, (23:16) which, which then says, Hey, I’m going to celebrate. I’m going to celebrate. What’s (23:20) a strength that I actually built.

And I’m also going to leverage the platforms that I was, (23:25) you know, gifted into. And I’m going to build upon those. I’m not going to look at them (23:29) as though I did this all.

This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, (23:44) business IT, and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, (23:49) automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform. The world’s first AI driven (23:54) wired and wireless network.

It’s yeah, I will say that’s like a, that, that comes from an article I (24:10) read probably over a year ago. And, and it was, it’s just taken like so much headspace. It was a (24:20) relatively short, you know, kind of like, you know, internet blog kind of, you know, article (24:27) that has taken so much of my mind space because I just, because I just think it helps me with (24:34) compassion of like, of, um, it’s, we talk about people being smart, like it’s an achievement.

(24:44) And, and the reality of life is like, I was always smart. Like I was, I was a smart kid. (24:51) I was school was easy.

It wasn’t that I put in any extra work in order to be smart, you know? And, (25:01) and in today’s kind of knowledge society, like I say, having the bucket of gifts that I was given (25:06) is, um, it is, uh, I, I realize that it makes life a lot easier. Like it’s, it is a thing, (25:17) you know, it is a gift that has made my life enormously easier. And, um, (25:24) and it is really akin to like, we, we try to put, um, to me like a, like that has a shine.

Somebody (25:34) being smart is like, but you don’t say that somebody’s tall, like it was an achievement of (25:39) theirs. Like good job eating all that, all that tall enhancing food. Exactly.

Or that you, you (25:47) know, like, and, and that you somehow worked harder to, to, to be tall and, and, but, but we do that (25:54) with, with intelligence. And, um, and that was kind of the, the meaning of this article was, (26:00) you know, like, maybe we should have some more compassion around folks that that is more of a (26:05) challenge and that, um, and, and we kind of almost treat like ignorance as a, as a, it is a derogatory (26:15) term. Almost everybody would say it’s a derogatory term when the reality is it really just means that (26:21) you don’t know.

And, um, and I’ve just like, that’s been on, on my heart a lot of like, (26:28) how do we look at people? How do we look at the way that people live their lives (26:35) absent of intelligence? Um, because it is such the ultimate trump card, um, as far as getting, (26:44) um, to, to making life easy in the time that we live in today. And, um, and so how do we, (26:52) you know, treat folks with compassion that, that those things don’t necessarily come too easily (26:58) and, um, and not to put so much shine, like myself, not put it, but so much (27:03) shine or respect on those who just are smart. And, uh, because I think there’s a way that we (27:10) use our gifts that, um, I don’t think those things are like, I look at privilege as a, (27:17) um, is not a derogatory term either.

I think it is like, I am so grateful. I came up in a (27:24) number one in a loving family. Like, you know, I have, um, I’m one of seven children with, (27:30) you know, parents that loved each other and that had an exceptionally stable household and, (27:36) and a family get along very well with all my brothers and sisters.

Like I’ve got like, (27:43) it’s a life lottery, you know, huge hit on top of, you know, kind of the financials and the (27:49) business and everything else. I understand that like, and, and I don’t have any guilt about any (27:58) of that. Like, I am so grateful for all of it.

Um, but it’s also what I think we should be striving (28:05) for for everyone. And so I look at when you, you know, you talk about privilege, I want everybody (28:10) to have that privilege. And if they’re understanding that not everybody does, (28:16) certainly is something that we should, you know, be again, compassionate about.

But, (28:22) but I don’t think that means that anybody needs to feel guilty about kind of what their background (28:28) is either. And I, and there is no question when they talk about the, you know, people that born (28:34) on third base, man, I, you know, I got it, you know, I, I couldn’t have been more. So, you know, (28:39) when you talk about, you know, kind of family opportunities, um, faith, all of the things that, (28:48) that I was given and I will always be grateful.

Um, but I will say over time, it’s taken me a (28:56) while to get to where I don’t feel guilty. So I can just say, and this is, you know, this is the (29:02) lot in life that I’ve got now, what do I do with it? And, um, and so, um, so yeah, that’s, that’s, (29:10) that’s probably been, I will say like kind of over the last year, that’s just been a lot of where, (29:15) kind of where my headspace has been of like, you know, how do we just look at others as, (29:22) as they are instead of, um, you know, kind of what, what gifts they were given. (29:28) You know, what about the, the term meritocracy and the things that, that, that, that people (29:35) earn on their merit? How does that play into, you know, what you’re saying here? (29:40) Yeah.

So, um, I think it’s absolutely the right way to, um, organize the world, you know, because(29:49) I think it’s best for everybody. If the, the folks who can do the most good kind of get the(29:56) most benefit. I mean, there is a, um, agreed portion to that, that says, you know, what’s(30:02) our best opportunity to make the pie as big as possible.

It’s to put, you know, the folks who (30:08) do the most with it. Um, but I don’t think it’s the right way to run, uh, your life, you know, (30:15) and to say, um, because everybody would say, you don’t love your kids more or less (30:23) based on what they achieve. Right.

If one kid can cut the lawn, (30:28) cuts the lawn more times a week than the, than the next one, we still love them equally. (30:33) Yeah, exactly. And it is, um, so it’s really obvious when we come to our family to say, (30:39) well, of course that would be kind of gross, right.

To, to say that I love my kids because (30:44) of what they’ve done, not of who they are. Um, but I think we should be more (30:52) kind to each other, you know, in, in other, there’s a big difference between, I think, (30:57) the way that an economy works and the way that our soul should work. And, and I think, and you (31:05) know, our, our soul should work in one that says, I have a, um, I can really think of everyone as (31:13) an equal, um, in an economy that would be a really bad way to run things.

I mean, that would be, (31:19) you know, it would be disastrous, um, to say, well, kind of, you know, anybody can be CEO, (31:25) so let’s put them in that, or anybody could be the accountant. Um, well, no, you need somebody (31:30) that’s got that skill and ability and, you know, the, the things that, um, and that’s why we have, (31:36) you know, engineers and accountants and salespeople and all of these different roles, (31:41) um, we should be putting in people into their best use. And, and the market is going to determine (31:47) sometimes that like the financial outcomes of those things are, um, are going to be different (31:53) because of supply and demand and, and how much value that brings.

That’s just an entirely, (31:59) and I think people want to conflate the two. And I, and, you know, I, uh, I mean, I, I certainly (32:06) hate politics nowadays. And, and I think that’s one of the errors that we, that we make is that (32:12) we try to say the way that we should put together the decisions we should make based on economics, (32:20) which in my eyes should be all about how do we make the pie as big as possible so that we lift (32:26) as many people up as, as we can, um, with the way that we should run our hearts and which is that, (32:34) you know, we, you know, we should absolutely look at everybody as equals and, and how do we, um,(32:39) how do we treat one another in, in, in, in our interactions? Um, we conflate those things like (32:46) that there, um, if you gotta be one, one, one way that you should be, you know, the, the same, (32:52) uh, on the other.

And I just think that’s, um, just not sensible. Yeah. Um, well, I mean, (32:59) you certainly live it though, too, with what you’ve done, uh, you’re, you’re heavily involved (33:03) with a group called International Samaritan and the, there’s some very poignant, uh, words (33:11) and feelings that come up when you talk about that organization and what it does and, and the(33:17) people that it serves.

And, uh, I think that would be, you know, living proof that you, that you (33:23) treat all or that you, you at least strive to treat all, we’re not perfect, but, uh, that you (33:28) strive to treat all people, uh, with dignity and dignity is a big, big word for both of us. (33:32) And, um, uh, so I want you to talk about that organization, the word garbage dump community (33:39) just hits, hits so hard. And I know it hits really hard for you because you’ve actually (33:45) gone to these.

And, um, so I’d love to hear a little bit more about that. I have, I have so (33:51) many thoughts going through my head though, of, of, of the last part of the conversation, but I (33:55) really want to make sure that we, that we shine focus on this. Yeah.

So, uh, yeah, another great (34:01) blessing in my life getting involved with international Samaritan. And so, um, so let me (34:06) tell you a little bit first about, um, who we are and what we do in that organization. So, um, (34:15) we’re in a 31st year of serving, uh, families that live on garbage dump.

So, so when we talk (34:21) about garbage dump communities, that is exactly what you think, um, is that, uh, it is not, um, (34:28) as Americans, we may think of garbage dumps as landfills, um, in developing countries, (34:36) um, they are not landfills. They are unregulated, um, dumps, um, literally the garbage trucks come (34:43) in and they dump garbage. And, um, for folks that are kind of, uh, living on, uh, the periphery, (34:52) um, it provides, uh, a source of, of income.

You can make, um, roughly two to $3 U S dollars a day, (35:04) usually recycling, um, things off of the garbage dump. And so whether it’s, uh, you know, plastics (35:11) or tires or metal, um, you can pull things off of the dump as they, the garbage trucks come in. (35:20) And, um, so there’s a whole economy.

And so there’s generally speaking in these garbage (35:25) dumps and developing countries, there’s anywhere from, um, you know, several hundred to, to (35:33) 10,000, tens of thousands, sometimes people that live on the garbage dump, um, usually kind of at (35:40) base of the dump. Uh, and, uh, and that’s, uh, that’s their livelihood. And, uh, so generally (35:50) a lot of folks that, um, would have a hard time otherwise, uh, in, in the economy.

And so, (35:57) uh, you know, number one is a lot of single mothers. Um, um, I would say healthy men are (36:03) largely absent in these communities is like, it’s, uh, um, but it could also be, uh, you know, (36:10) men that are lepers or that have, um, you know, significant, uh, you know, uh, disabilities. (36:18) Um, and so it, uh, it is as dire as what you, um, might imagine.

And so, um, the organization (36:29) was started by a Jesuit priest, uh, on a trip that he had taken with a group of high school students, (36:35) um, to Guatemala back in, um, in 1994. And, um, Father Batiste, um, the legend has it that the, (36:48) you know, the, the bus, um, had a detour and they ended up in one of these, um, garbage dump (36:56) communities, which are generally speaking, you know, very close to, um, to city center. (37:01) So there’s usually a, a, a, a real dichotomy between they’re not usually that far from (37:07) downtown because you don’t want to have to cart the garbage, you know, too far away.

(37:11) So usually, you know, a few kilometers away, you’ve got this garbage dump. They, uh, him and (37:18) a group of high schoolers saw this, came back, um, to Toledo and said, you know, (37:26) what are we going to do? Like, we can’t, we can’t just unknow, um, and, uh, what we now know. (37:33) And so they started, um, largely, I would say there was a, a, a, a group of families, um, (37:41) somewhat led by the Pulte family that, um, started building, you know, some housing, (37:46) um, in, in this mission, uh, you know, this, uh, uh, area of Guatemala.

(37:53) Um, over the years, I would say the, uh, the mission has grown. So at that time it was called, (38:01) uh, Central American Charities. Um, now we have, uh, missions in, uh, in Central America, (38:10) in Africa, and in, and in Jamaica, um, in the Caribbean.

And so, um, and I would say our focus (38:17) has changed a little bit. Uh, I would say probably it’s gotten a little bit more ambitious in that (38:22) we are focusing on what we’re, we term as holistic scholarships. So, um, education for young people (38:31) in these areas is, um, is very difficult.

Um, a lot of the public schools, um, are, (38:38) uh, not well thought of and they’re not well, uh, taken care of. And so the opportunities, (38:45) and then on top of that, that a lot of the young people at a very young age, um, have to work (38:51) in the dump to, to help sustain the family. And so it’s almost two or $3 per person is (38:57) almost impossible for them to seek out education because they’re busy working.

(39:00) They’re busy working in the dump every day. Um, the dump conditions are as, as bad as you may (39:06) imagine, and more dangerous than I ever thought they would be. I mean, garbage trucks don’t stop.

(39:13) And, um, so there’s often, uh, you know, very bad accidents with people getting run over in the (39:19) dump. Um, we had at our mission in Uganda, uh, a terrible, uh, landslide, uh, garbage in the, (39:27) in the dump because they’re, they are not secure, you know, and so, um, that killed dozens, (39:33) um, just a year ago. And, uh, so those conditions are awful.

So what we’re trying to do is when we (39:39) say a holistic scholarship is we want to find the educational resources to, to help make them (39:44) successful, but then all of the other things that they need. So if that means that they (39:49) need some food support, um, if they need some, uh, access to medical care, uh, if they need, (39:55) uh, clean water, you know, we, we, um, try to bring clean water into the communities that, (40:00) that we’re serving. And then, um, and then some place to go to get away from the chaos that is (40:09) living in a garbage dump community.

And so we try to create what we would call maybe like a (40:14) community center here. We call there, we call them family life centers is like a place for a kid to (40:20) to maybe have, you know, some clubs, like, you know, we have, uh, you know, kind of self-defense (40:26) classes for women in, in Ethiopia. And, uh, we have, uh, co-ops in a, in a number of the (40:32) communities where the women, uh, the mothers in the community can come together and whether it’s, (40:38) uh, making jewelry or having, uh, you know, a farming business or, or something like that.

(40:44) So, so we try to create, um, like we call family life center as a place to kind of come together (40:50) and, um, really giving all of the wraparound and then, you know, certainly the, the, the kind of (40:56) the, the mental of the mental health resources and spiritual support. So these, um, it’s all led by (41:07) heroic teams in country. So we’ve got a very, the organization international Samaritan (41:13) is a, um, has got a small team in Ann Arbor, a wonderful team that kind of leads the efforts and, (41:19) and helps to, to raise the money.

Didn’t you just recently hire a president? We did actually. So (41:25) we’re about, uh, trying to think, I think Mike’s been on board now for about six years that, uh, (41:31) he took over from the founder. He’s an unbelievable, Mike Tenbush is an unbelievable transformational (41:39) leader, somebody who could absolutely run a corporation as well, but as a heart, um, spent (41:46) most of his career, um, trying to make things better in the city of Detroit, um, in, in various(41:52) nonprofits and, um, now has committed himself to, to this mission and garbage dump communities.

And (41:59) he has dramatically expanded our reach and the depth that we go into. And, um,(42:05) but the work is done on site and then we’ve got these teams that really, um, become part of the (42:14) community. Um, oftentimes they are part of the community and, and they’re, um, they’re leading (42:19) the efforts and really kind of, uh, just, uh, kind of wrapping their arms around these scholars that (42:28) we have.

And so we’re up to almost a thousand, uh, just over 900, um, uh, scholars in seven (42:36) communities that we serve. And it is, um, it’s unbelievable work. I, I, I, I talk often about (42:46) the power of hope.

Um, cause if there’s anything that this has taught me is, you know, kind of (42:53) what the power of hope is a little bit of hope goes so far and we’ve got success story after (43:01) success story of children who once given, um, that kind of like, I can see the light of how I can make (43:11) my life better. Um, that just absolutely run for that opportunity and, um, and are, are doing (43:21) amazing things and then almost without fail also coming back and helping the, their community. And (43:30) so they, they rise up, they come back and they give the next hand up.

That’s right. And they’re (43:35) creating this kind of what we would call kind of an alumni network, you know, where, where they’re (43:41) coming back and, and mentoring the, the, the children that are coming through the program now. (43:46) And so we are just seeing kind of some of our, you know, kind of first round or first, you know, (43:52) few years of graduates from the program and, um, the, the impact that they have as they go on and (43:59) they’re nurses or, or, um, taxi cab drivers or barbers or mechanics or whatever that they’re (44:07) doing, but that they can kind of show the young people like this is, this is the opportunity (44:13) you’re given.

Your life does not have to be one of, um, so substantive substance that it, (44:21) that is only comes from working on a garbage dump. And so, and, and kind of proving that point of (44:27) that is not who you are. And, you know, it’s interesting because, you know, I think everybody,(44:32) I think you were shocked when I said garbage dump communities is like, that sounds like a (44:37) derogatory term, you know, that it sounds like it’s something.

I just thought it was such a (44:42) picture that you painted. And then when you told me that the, like the smell, I mean, I could, (44:48) when, when you’ve, when you were telling me about this, I could, I could feel it because I could (44:51) see the look on your face because one, you’ve actually seen it, you know, and then you’ve (44:58) smelled it. So it’s been a full experiential, you know, negative experiential, uh, uh, impact on (45:05) you.

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(45:44) And, uh, and it’s, uh, and all of that is like, it’s so real. I mean, it is, um, (45:53) you know, it’s gross. I mean, it is, I mean, there is, uh, the, the smell is vile to the point of (45:59) for, for somebody who has grown up in a pretty cushy life.

Um, it’s like, it’s hard to, uh, (46:08) to not vomit. I mean, um, just as you walk through and, and that’s like, that’s what the (46:14) homes are. And when we talk about the homes, it’s generally dirt floor, um, corrugated, uh, metal (46:22) outsides.

And it is, and the, the runoff of these garbage dumps goes right through the streets. Like(46:30) it is, like it is a, um, it’s a stream of kind of what we would consider kind of open sewage.(46:38) And it’s, and it’s, it’s as bad as, you know, you might imagine.

I will say that is not the (46:46) overwhelming, um, you know, kind of feeling though. Um, when I’ve had the opportunity to go into (46:53) people’s homes there and, um, is that it is one of, of gratitude. I mean, I will say, you know, (47:02) as difficult as things are, I would say that in a lot of these communities, family is (47:07) more stable than it is in my own community at home.

Wow. And, um, and there’s a lot of (47:14) on each other. And like I say, the hope becomes very much it’s, um, when, you know, (47:23) when your desires are, you know, something better than what we have.

Um, and, uh, and you see, (47:34) uh, you know, just, you know, just a couple of, you know, quick stories of like, um, a, you know, (47:42) a family that was in their home and, um, father is a leper. Um, the mother, uh, was kind of, (47:53) I would say kind of the matriarch of the community. Like they have, you know, very much.

(47:57) Um, this is in, um, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. And, um, father was, you know, talking very,(48:05) you know, glowingly about the organization and the opportunity that it gave for their daughter and, (48:11) and, uh, she was getting her nursing degree. Um, and so she was, uh, he was, and he was talking (48:19) and like the mother had started, um, like a small farm selling, um, eggs.

She was raising chickens (48:26) and selling eggs. And so they were able to, um, you know, kind of buy some brick and, and, and (48:34) add on to, uh, to their one bedroom home and, you know, a little bit of extra space. And he was (48:41) taking a lot of pride in that.

Um, and then he, he, he got very emotional as we’re sitting there (48:48) talking and he said, you know, all my life, people have looked down on me because I’m a leper. (48:54) And he said, people didn’t want to be around me. People, you know, uh, didn’t have the time of day.

(49:00) And I believe them that I was not worthy of their time. And he goes, that’s, um, he said,(49:08) my daughter is going to be a college graduate and no one will ever look down on me. And he said, (49:14) and it was just like this incredible, um, feeling of like, yeah, like this is what we all like.

(49:23) It was this kind of joining of, of like, yeah, I’ve lived an entirely different life. (49:30) But I want the same things. Yeah.

Your joy is derived from the same exact thing that his is. (49:35) Yeah, exactly. And it’s this in a different way and in a, um, and, and the pride, you know, (49:43) frankly was just, it’s bigger in his heart because, because I do see that my children had every, (49:48) you know, every opportunity and I, there is an expectation that you should be able to, (49:52) you know, you know, do well in life, um, because of all of the opportunity that you’ve been given (49:57) to hear that.

It was like, oh my God, there’s just, there’s the father’s love. (50:01) And it was just like, and just a number of these like kind of very similar interactions of (50:10) folks that came from really, really difficult. Another young woman in that, um, in that same (50:17) community, um, that talked about losing her parents when she was, um, like 10 or 12 and, (50:27) and she had, um, younger sisters that she was caring for.

And so that’s why she moved from the (50:34) countryside where there was literally no work to kind of becoming a domestic in and around the (50:40) garbage dump of, you know, kind of, and, um, and she described before she got introduced to (50:48) International Samaritan, she just very matter of factly said, you know, I was, when I was 12, (50:54) I just realized my life was over and I was living for my sister. And at 12, you know, (51:03) this is the kind of reality that somebody is living and saying like, I want, you know, (51:10) I just want something better for them so that they, I’m just going to live the rest of my life for. (51:17) And now she is, um, it’s, it’s very interesting.

She says, uh, she wants to become a cook (51:24) and she says, well, I’ve cooked for people and clean for people my whole life. Um, she says, (51:31) I realized if I can choose to do it, it’s not drudgery. Like I actually enjoy it.

If I, (51:38) if it’s my choice, it’s, it’s funny. The director there, um, in the, in the family life center,(51:44) they say, we try to tell her all the time. It’s like, this isn’t your job.

You’re a guest here. (51:50) You can, but she’s always, you know, cooking for people or cleaning up around the place. (51:56) And she says, no, no, no, this is my joy because this is, these are the people I love (52:00) that have given me, you know, this opportunity.

And, and so like, it doesn’t always have to be, (52:08) you know, people becoming doctors and nurses. Like we say, there is tremendous, um, success (52:16) in somebody, you know, just going into a loving marriage relationship or like there’s all these (52:23) success factors or like I say, becoming a taxi driver or, uh, uh, a beautician. Like those are (52:30) all enormous successes because it’s people taking control of their own lives and, and agency.

And (52:36) like I say, dignity is a word I use a lot. I am, I believe that we are all equal in human dignity. (52:43) And that is what kind of gets realized when people have agency over their lives.

And so it has been (52:51) so much fun. I it’s, it’s weird to say that working with, you know, garbage dump communities (52:57) is fun, but I, uh, I look forward to going on the trips. I, um, I joke, you know, so I say, (53:04) I’ve been, I’ve been back to our mission in Ethiopia.

I’ve been to Ethiopia, Kenya and (53:09) Guatemala. I’ve been back to Ethiopia twice. And it’s odd to say, but I have friends there (53:16) like, and we still, you know, the, the, the beauty of the internet is (53:20) like, we still correspond with each other and, you know, keep up on each other’s lives (53:26) because I have friends in like in my life, I never would think that I would have said, (53:30) oh, I have friends in Ethiopia, but I absolutely have people who I care deeply about that, that are, (53:35) um, that live there.

And so it’s, um, it is, uh, it’s, it’s been, it’s been awesome. (53:43) That’s really, really enjoyed it. Congratulations.

Yeah. Good work too. I mean, (53:47) when most people in your position are going on safaris over there, you’re going and working (53:51) in the garbage dump.

So, I mean, I think you should be proud of that. Yeah. I went on safari (53:55) there while I was in Kenya.

So I’m not, not always. Yeah. That kind of brings me to the, (54:01) one of the things that was coming up for me is when you’re talking about the community center (54:04) is the ability for respite.

Right. And, and, and that’s where so much growth takes place. Right.

(54:10) I mean, if, if you’re, I mean, look at the hierarchy of needs, right? Nobody, nobody can(54:14) really be self-actualizing if they’re, if they’re worried about where their next meal is coming from. (54:19) And so maybe they’re, you know, when the person gets first introduced to that, it’s gotta be (54:24) odd for them to, to actually have a down moment. You know, like you said, this young girl doesn’t (54:28) even know how to really rest to stop serving because that’s just what she, what she does.

(54:33) So, um, I think so much growth is happening there, you know, because you’re offering(54:37) the holistic view, right. As opposed to just saying, Hey, we’re going to put some, (54:42) we’re going to give you some money for education. Okay, great.

So now I can work all day and then (54:45) I can go to school all night. You know, there’s no, there’s no time, right. There’s no time for (54:50) the, for the growth to occur.

Yeah. That’s what, you know, so our, our mission says we walk hand (54:55) in hand. Like that is, that’s part of it because, um, you can spend a lot of money on aid and, (55:01) um, and that’s great.

Like, I don’t, I don’t want to, I don’t want to downplay that, you know, (55:06) material aid is important. Like it’s really important in these communities, (55:12) but you also, uh, walking with somebody is, is so important. And it is such a like, and so like (55:20) having that, that team that really is becoming part of their life, part of their support system, (55:27) not that their family isn’t supportive.

Oftentimes they’ve got, you know, uh, you know, (55:32) loving mothers and, and, and siblings that are very supportive, but it is somebody being able (55:39) to show them maybe a different way or showing them some other opportunities in a way that, (55:45) as you said, when you are focused solely on how do we live today, that it’s just a really, um, (55:54) it’s just a really difficult life. And I think also we should certainly be grateful for the fact (56:01) that we should understand this was most of human existence, right? Like this is not, (56:06) this is relatively new to the last, you know, couple hundred years of having time for recreation (56:14) and leisure. Like, like we do that just wasn’t, it was really hard.

Life has been really hard (56:21) for most of human existence and still is for a lot of, for a lot of people. Sure.