(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

(0:39) All right, welcome to an episode, a new episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt Loria,(0:45) and I’m sitting here with someone you might remember from a previous episode, (0:49) Elise Fisher from episode 22. Hello, good morning, Matt.

(0:53) Thank you for being here. And Amy Gillard. Amy is the executive director of the Harbor Springs (0:58) Festival of the Book.

And so that’s an organization who, I’m going to read it myself if you don’t mind. (1:05) Go for it. The Harbor Springs Festival of the Book is a three-day gathering of traditionally (1:10) published authors and illustrators held each year in September.

So it is actually quite well-known. (1:17) It was not well-known to me until it was introduced to me by (1:20) Elise, and then now further by you. So I’m here to share this with our constituency of (1:27) friends of the BLTNT podcast and make sure that they know about it too.

And so kind of an odd (1:33) mixture, right? I mean, most people that are watching our podcast are probably scratching (1:38) their heads and saying, why are you doing this? And we’ve got really good reason though. (1:45) So Amy, can you give us a little background of a better definition of what the Harbor Springs (1:51) Festival of the Book is all about? And then tell me a little bit about your background and how you (1:56) found this joint. Sure, happy to.

And thanks for having me today and us. And we’ll make that (2:02) connection soon. We will.

The Harbor Springs Festival of the Book, as you mentioned, is a (2:06) three-day literary festival that happens in Harbor Springs. We take over town and create pretty much, (2:14) it feels like a college campus, for three days of programming. We invite traditionally published (2:19) authors and illustrators in seven different genres.

And maybe if you see pictures behind me, (2:27) these are some of the authors who are coming this year. And what we do is curate programming (2:34) that allows our attendees to experience some of the most creative minds right now in the world of (2:42) fiction, nonfiction, poetry, cookbooks, middle-grade authors, young adult authors, (2:51) and children’s picture books. We invite them to town, they spend the weekend with us, (2:57) and we interact with them over the course of the three days, approximately 45 sessions (3:05) throughout those three days, and just have an absolutely wonderful time talking about the words (3:13) and wonder and wisdom of books and the written word.

That’s fantastic. There was something you (3:24) guys told me about, and I don’t remember the actual full-on details, but just to give people (3:29) a little bit of a taste, the authors engage with students as part of the program? So part of the (3:36) program, correct, is on Friday of the festival, we send all of our picture book, middle grade, (3:43) and young adult authors into area schools. And they have an opportunity to do sessions with them, (3:49) we work with the schools to create what’s the best program for children all the way from kindergarten (3:55) through 12th grade, and the authors come in, maybe they’re doing a drawing session with second (4:00) graders, or maybe they’re talking in a panel with another young adult author for high school (4:07) students who are interested in writing.

One of the other things that we also do in conjunction (4:12) with that program is if an author is going into a classroom, we try to give all the students a copy (4:19) of that author’s book. So not only are they meeting the author, but they also get to take home their (4:26) own personal book that they get to add to their personal library, which we feel is really important. (4:32) Isn’t there something where they’re walking around the town too and engaging? What was that all about?(4:36) Well, so authors are scheduled then, all the school authors then are scheduled into programming (4:43) on Saturday and Sunday, and the sessions are in three different parks.

We use the Performing Arts (4:52) Center at the high school, we use the Lyric Theater, we use our local library, and we use our History Museum. (4:59) So sessions are happening all over town, and people then just move from session to session to session. (5:06) What makes it nice is the authors are also participating as attendees.

They may do a session (5:12) at nine o’clock, but they may go to a 10 30 session, and so you could be sitting in your session (5:17) listening to a panel, but also have another author sitting right next to you. So there’s great (5:22) accessibility for our attendees and for our authors to experience what town is like. They can go (5:27) across to any of our coffee shops and get a cup of coffee and talk with people.

They can (5:32) go into, you know, Hanni’s Gallery and be looking at jewelry to take something home to a significant (5:37) other. And so it really gives the authors a chance to really invest in the community and see what we (5:43) have, and it also allows the attendees to have that same kind of opportunity, because everybody’s (5:49) walking around and moving from place to place. Fantastic.

So Elyse Fisher is one of the (5:57) owners of Nubs Nob ski area in this region in Harbor Springs, and she was on our episode 22 (6:04) talking mostly about the interaction at almost the CEO level, board level that you (6:12) have there, that you’re on there with your engagement with the management team who (6:18) runs day-to-day operations. And so one of the things that you were talking about with me was (6:25) this festival of the book. I had no idea what it was.

You then told me that you’re the chair (6:29) of the board right now, and so it got me interested. I, you know, called my wife and told (6:35) her that that sign at the top of the hill, we now have to pay attention to it because Elyse is (6:39) involved in this. But we also had another unique interaction, so I learned about the festival from (6:47) you on the episode, and then a few months later we get the family text that says Rebecca Mix, (6:56) our soon-to-be daughter-in-law, got accepted as one of the authors, as one of the (7:03) invited authors.

And so she says, you don’t understand how big of a deal this is, and I’m (7:09) thinking, well, yes, I do, because I actually know what this is all about. But what a great (7:14) honor, and so just the, I love the cosmos brought us all together on this, you know, in this (7:23) platform to be able to talk about it and have all these nice, neat connections. Elyse, give us a (7:30) little bit of background for the people who maybe didn’t watch episode 22.

Tell them what you’re all (7:35) about, and let’s talk about how you got to be part of the Harbor Springs Festival of the Book. (7:41) Okay, thank you, Matt. I’m involved in this community in a lot of different ways, and I think that’s what’s (7:48) so unique about Harbor Springs, and actually Emmett County, and I’ll include Petoskey, etc.

But we’re a (7:54) very closely knit family, and I knew nothing about the festival, I’ll be quite honest. And a friend (8:03) said, you’ve never heard of it, you don’t know what’s going on, come with me and attend some of (8:07) the sessions. So I did, I got hooked immediately on the panels, they put together amazing programming.

(8:14) And so one thing kind of led to another, and then another good friend of mine, who is very much a (8:20) part of this community, said, maybe you’d be interested in getting more involved. And I said, (8:25) possibly. And within, I don’t know, maybe the next year, another friend, who actually was (8:35) chair of this organization, Maureen Abood, she invited me to her porch for coffee.

And she’s a (8:42) cookbook author, so she had delicious treats as we were mulling over what the Harbor Springs (8:48) Festival of the Book is. And within an hour, I was so sold on the concept and felt so invited (8:55) to be a part of this organization. And I wasn’t formally asked yet, of course, to be on the board, (9:01) but I could really see and feel the uniqueness of it.

And here again, as I mentioned a minute ago, (9:07) I was not an avid reader, but it has totally absorbed me in so many ways. And it’s just (9:14) another thing that our community has to share and grow and enrich all of the members here. (9:21) So that’s how I kind of got started with it and involved.

And it kind of plays into just being, (9:31) well, a business owner, but then being able to give back in other genres of the community. So (9:36) that’s how I kind of got started. Yeah.

And, you know, from the areas that I know you from, (9:43) a board member is becoming part of your professional resume, for sure. And you’ve really (9:51) become noted in the area of being quite successful at it and very impactful in those roles. So (9:57) I’m sure the group here is very lucky to have you in your role.

Well, thank you. I do love (10:04) the governance level of an organization. I was steeped in business from my family, (10:12) and I was taught the layers of business and how it can be very effective if you do it properly.

(10:19) And part of that is with the governance, understanding governance versus management,(10:24) and also trusting the right people because it comes back and it makes for a very stable(10:32) organization. You know, I just got done shooting. I don’t know which one we’ll post first, but (10:37) my friend Paul Glantz, who owns the Imagine Theater chain, I always compliment him on his (10:43) ability to trust others, which has really helped him, you know, grow his organization.

(10:49) And, you know, how has that worked for you with your interactions with, (10:53) you know, as at the board level here with management of the festival? I think it has, (11:00) well, I know it has allowed Amy, as executive director, to really use her skill set, which (11:07) has a very wide and deep skill set, and let her be more creative and go out there and not have (11:18) any restraints and do what she does best. And I think she has a better use of her time. She’s not (11:26) putting out little fires, and she’s got the support of the board.

And I think, Amy, don’t (11:33) you think it’s worked out that way, giving you more autonomy and doing what she does best? (11:39) Yeah, I think that as the organization has grown, we started as, we’re a non-profit organization, (11:47) so working with the board, and what does that mean? And what’s how, when you start a non-profit, (11:53) many times your board members are your biggest volunteers and your biggest worker beings. (11:57) And so as we’ve grown, right now I’m one of 10. I’m the only full-time employee.

I have two (12:04) part-time people, but I also have seven people who are very project-based, working to create (12:10) all of the elements of the festival. And so we have a team now that really can (12:16) advance the festival in significant ways, allowing the board to work on what they’re (12:22) charged with, which is a fiduciary responsibility to help us create the festival and produce the (12:28) festival, and governance. So it’s really giving us that opportunity now as we enter the next (12:35) decade.

We’re celebrating our 10th year this year. As we launch into this next decade to really take(12:41) everything to the next level, including how the board operates and how they interface with the (12:47) organization. Great, okay.

So actually the interesting thing is your organization is (12:52) maybe just a year younger than my organization. So certainly at some point I want to talk about (12:59) kind of the evolution of how an organization kind of develops, right? And I guess we can do that (13:05) right now. I remember the early days of our organization, it just felt like a lot of (13:13) horsepower, right? And you and I were talking the other day, and you were telling me how (13:18) you’ve worked with some really impressive organizations.

And maybe we should start (13:22) there before we talk about the kind of the lifecycle of an organization. Let’s tell everybody (13:27) a little bit about your background, because it’s really steeped in managing some pretty (13:33) impressive events. I grew up, let’s even start there, on the other side of the state.

I grew (13:39) up in a small town called Spruce in Alcona County, which is just south of Alpena. I went to (13:45) high school there, and then went to Alma College in Alma, Michigan, and then went to the University (13:51) of Vermont for my graduate program. And Elise and I found out that she went there as an undergrad, (13:57) and I was there as a graduate student.

We weren’t there at the same time, but it’s fun to have (14:00) that connection to be. Did you go there because you wanted to ski? Because I remember that that (14:04) was her major deciding factor. Yeah, I did.

No, at the time it had the program that I really, (14:12) the best program in the nation. One of the other similar programs was at Ohio State, (14:17) and as a Michigander, I just couldn’t find myself in Ohio. And at Michigan State, (14:21) or at Ohio State, so UBM had the best program at that time.

And what was that program? It was (14:26) an educational administration. So it was everything non-academic at a college or university. And then (14:33) right after that, I moved to Kansas City.

And I spent the summer between my first and second year (14:39) of Kansas City, because my sister was working there, and I stayed with her. And I met a man (14:45) at the time who was working for the Kansas City Chiefs. And when I decided to look for a (14:51) professional position after I graduated from graduate school, I wanted to work in alumni or (14:55) fundraising.

And you don’t move to a college or a community and say, okay, now what colleges are (15:02) here? You just send out your resume to colleges that have positions posted. And the week that I(15:07) moved to Kansas City, Mitch, who I’d worked with at the Chiefs, was promoted to director of his (15:13) department. And two weeks later, he asked me to work for him.

So my very first professional job (15:18) was with the Kansas City Chiefs. And I did that for six years. And our office was responsible (15:23) for all the game production, advertising and marketing, ticket sales, and corporate sponsorships.

(15:28) And at the end of my career, after six years with them, I was the person who coordinated all the (15:34) logistics of all the corporate sponsorships. Much smaller staff than what you might look on a roster (15:39) now at the Chiefs. There were seven of us that were full-time employees.

I think now they have (15:43) 50 in those areas. So very different, but loved it. Then after that, Mitch left the organization (15:51) close to when I did and started his own sport marketing agency.

And with that then, I went back (15:57) to work for him and ended up in corporate sponsorships with Sprint. We were the agency (16:04) of record for Sprint corporate sponsorship. So at the time, they had just signed on for World Cup (16:09) Soccer.

Intimately involved with that. Then in the mid-90s, Sprint had signed the largest contract (16:17) with the NFL and managed many aspects then of that relationship with all the individual teams(16:24) and the league. I’ve been to six Super Bowls.

We did projects with the Major League Baseball (16:30) Players Association, the National Hockey League. We were LPGA, PGA. Also did projects with the (16:41) U.S. Ski Team and Snowboard Association.

The NCAA was based in Kansas City at that time, (16:47) so we did projects with the NCAA. We also did projects with the U.S. Olympic Committee. (16:51) So I’ve coordinated and worked on projects in just about every professional field but lacrosse, (17:01) and I’ve never done a collegiate football game.

But anything else, that’s what happened. (17:08) We’ll have Jackie share up the impressive platter of logos that you’ve been associated with. (17:16) It’s really interesting.

I’ve been very fortunate. I had a wonderful career. And most of my focus (17:22) has been on event management within those organizations.

Then there came a point where (17:26) I decided to hang out my own shingle. And so I did that. I also knew at some point in time, (17:31) I wanted to move back to Michigan.

I was the only member of my family that was far away. (17:35) So after the passing of my father, I said, okay, it’s time to move back. And because I’d hung out (17:41) my own shingle and because I was doing my own thing, I had clients that were in many places, (17:46) but it didn’t matter where I lived because it basically is now the working remote opportunity.

(17:53) So I moved back to Michigan. I got involved with people in the book industry, actually(17:58) McLennan Aiken Booksellers in Petoskey, and met people who I now work with now in the festival. (18:04) So for years then, we had a great relationship.

Friendships just grew. They knew what I was doing (18:10) from the event management side. So when the festival came into fruition and it started with (18:16) four people just having a conversation about, wouldn’t it be great to create a literary festival? (18:21) And one of them was Katie Beckel, who was the owner of Between the Covers Bookstore, (18:26) but had grown up selling books at McLennan Aiken.

And then the publisher of the local newspaper here (18:32) in Harbor Springs. And then two of his writers, and one was a published young adult author. (18:38) They were the ones that had the genesis of the idea to say, wouldn’t it be great to do this? (18:43) And I knew all of those people.

And when they started, then they asked me to come in and just (18:48) consult on an operation standpoint. Like, okay, we’re doing this. How do we do it? And I said, (18:54) I can help you with that.

I can’t be involved more than just in a consulting standpoint because (18:59) I still had other commitments to other clients. And so when the first festival launched, (19:06) I also got brought in to help with author logistics. And then after the first festival, (19:12) there was a change in leadership and I applied for the position of executive director.

And since (19:17) February of 17, I’ve been the executive director and we’re now launching our 10th festival. (19:23) Great. I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the knock.

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(19:51) Visit Oxium.com and let Oxium IT help you outsmart chaos. (19:57) You know, one of the most interesting things to me that I, in doing this, right, (20:01) in interviewing and talking to people and having these discussions and recording them, (20:05) is the realization, you know, a lot of people say, you know, God put you here, right, for a reason. (20:11) And, you know, the thing that I continue to realize is that you are uniquely qualified (20:16) to be right where you are doing exactly what you’re doing.

(20:19) Can I say amen? (20:20) Amen, sister. (20:21) And I will say amen too. Yeah.

(20:24) It’s just, it never gets lost on me when I’m talking to folks and seeing it’s like, (20:29) you see all these little connections up, right, too. (20:32) And it builds up to right where you’re supposed to be. (20:34) And so I think that’s just so cool that that’s you, (20:37) and that’s what you’re doing, and that you’re here.

(20:41) You did mention the bookstore that’s actually connected to this building here, and Katie.(20:48) Right. (20:48) And so let’s talk about, because there’s, (20:51) I want to talk about this structuring of organizations and structuring of your organization.

(20:56) The fact that this organization has a structure is something that kind of came over time.(21:03) So let’s just first start by saying, so you’re the executive director, which you focus,(21:08) your main focus is the event. (21:10) Is that correct? (21:11) For yourself, your major focus?(21:14) Correct.

(21:15) And fundraising, yes, making the event happen and working with a staff that have key responsibilities (21:23) in other areas, because there are so many other areas that have to happen. (21:27) But I help manage those individuals as well as doing logistics myself, confirming venues, (21:36) tents, those types of things. (21:37) The difference between you and what Katie does, so Katie really works directly with the authors.

(21:41) Is that correct? (21:42) So Katie’s our literary director. (21:43) Okay. (21:44) And within the structure of the organization, what happens is we have an author committee, (21:48) and we have people that sit on that committee that have experience (21:52) in the publishing or the writing world.

(21:56) And so what happens is Katie works with that committee to collect submissions, (22:03) both from the publishing world, we have a call out to those two publishers across the country,(22:10) large and small. (22:12) We also work with past presenters who say, oh my gosh, I have a friend who’s writing a book (22:18) and would be perfect for your festival. (22:20) We look at those submissions as well.

(22:23) We also have an opportunity for people to self-submit and have criteria that we have(22:29) authors look at to say, if you fit our criteria, you’re happy to submit your work. (22:34) The author committee then looks at all of those authors based on the individual genres. (22:42) And Katie helps us look to prioritize who we might want to give an invitation to, (22:46) because this is a by invitation festival.

(22:49) You can’t just submit your work and be accepted. (22:52) You don’t just pay the fee and get in? (22:54) There’s no fee for that, to be able to do that. (22:58) So you have to be invited to attend and to be able to participate in our programming.

(23:03) And then what happens is once the authors are selected, then the magic starts to happen. (23:08) We’re looking at who can talk about topics. (23:10) Authors aren’t coming in and just one author talking about their book and then leaving.

(23:17) We have panels that have topics. (23:20) For example, going down the rabbit hole of research, you could have a panel with a middle (23:29) grade author who has delved into historical characters and doing research. (23:36) You could have a poet who has done a whole book about the West.

(23:40) And you could have a nonfiction author who has written specifically about the gold rush.(23:49) And those three people from nonfiction, poetry and middle grades, how are you going to put (23:56) them together? (23:57) But they’re going to talk about their process. (23:59) They’re going to talk about going down the rabbit hole of research.

(24:03) So that makes it unique. (24:04) And then there are some broad topics that are always interesting. (24:08) A sense of place as a character.

(24:13) And so magically, not magically, there’s no magic wand. (24:17) Sometimes we wish there was. (24:19) But Katie just understands the industry.

(24:24) She understands the book. (24:25) She understands the content of all of them and can look and see how a conversation can (24:30) be formed amongst these two or three people in a conversation to talk about their book (24:35) that they’ve come to promote, but also to talk about the broader topic, which expands (24:40) and gives the audience and attendees a greater opportunity to listen in on that discussion, (24:47) which is more developed and more creatively curated. (24:52) Sure.

(24:53) And those conversations are just, that’s what’s magic. (24:57) So what I’m seeing from the, excuse me, from the business end of things here is that you (25:03) guys have a well-defined roles and responsibilities, which normally doesn’t happen right off the (25:11) rip. (25:11) So in talking about the process of the life cycle of an organization and its growth and (25:16) its maturation, we know that early on, like I said, we’re about the same age in business (25:23) years of the, you start off with a lot of horsepower.

(25:27) Then you start to delegate and separate of, okay, this is, these are strength areas of(25:33) each individual. (25:34) You put a structure to the organization. (25:38) Let’s talk about the system.

(25:41) And I think there was a quote that you gave us, was it the CFO from the, from the CFO(25:46) from the chiefs who I used to say, the system is the solution. (25:50) Okay. (25:51) And that is critical in any organization, be it nonprofit or for-profit.

(25:56) And so when we started, the staff was much smaller. (26:01) And as we grew as an organization, we realized there were opportunities to focus on key areas. (26:08) We have one person just doing author logistics.

(26:12) We have another person doing housing and transportation. (26:19) We have another person just doing volunteer coordination. (26:23) My guess is that when this started though, I’ll bet you that there was board members (26:27) and staff that were all volunteers and everybody was all hands on deck.

(26:34) Right. (26:34) And those positions didn’t exist, but knew as we grew as an organization that certain (26:39) areas really needed to be focused on so we could continue to do it right and do it and (26:43) do it better all the time. (26:45) And so like one person just manages venues and then we have someone just coordinating (26:50) registration.

(26:51) Once we got into the registration part of it, and now we had one person just doing school (26:56) visits. (26:57) Now we have three people. (26:58) We have one person just coordinating the programming and establishing the programming and working (27:02) with Katie as literary director.

(27:04) We have one person just doing logistics with the schools. (27:07) And then we have one person coordinating the volunteers who host the authors as they go (27:11) into the schools.(27:13) Well, there’s really a continuum or a sliding scale or whatever you want to say, graduation (27:19) of not-for-profits, right? (27:21) Sometimes they get the rap of that they’re not exceptionally organized.

(27:25) I mean, the smaller ones. (27:28) And then as you see, these nonprofits can be essentially worldwide. (27:33) You guys are doing that with a relatively small staff and a decent-sized budget.

(27:40) I mean, really segregating this neatly with the way the board operates and the way that(27:48) the staff does. (27:48) So at least can you talk about kind of how the board has maybe been able to evolve to (27:54) really play its role on focus on governance and fiduciary responsibilities? (28:01) Yes. (28:01) And as a matter of fact, our five-year strategic plan is coming to an end.

(28:05) So we’re engaging in a new three to five-year strategic plan. (28:08) And it’s happening as I’m sitting here. (28:10) So we have actually engaged a facilitator to help us with this.

(28:15) And it’s been very valuable. (28:17) We’ve met as a small group, some board members, some not board members. (28:23) And we’ve had two meetings.

(28:26) And we’re letting the things that we feel are really valuable going forward for this (28:31) organization now after being here for 10 years. (28:35) And we’ve re-identified some of the old strategies and freshened up some of the things (28:40) that we want to look forward to. (28:42) And this facilitator has allowed us to really brainstorm and put a lot on the table.

(28:52) But she’s narrowing us down to like three to five goals, strategy. (28:57) And I think it’s been very helpful. (28:58) And we’ve talked about in these sessions what growth means.

(29:02) And growth for us is not numbers because we’re at our limit as far as what this town(29:07) and our venues can handle. (29:09) But making it better and the product better and the experience better, et cetera, et cetera. (29:14) We’d like to have more diversity in our attendees.

(29:19) And that we’re working on. (29:21) But we really are engaged in this process of strategy for the next three to five years. (29:26) And narrowing it down and really being able to address it and accomplish it.

(29:33) Well, we talked about it. (29:34) It’s interesting when you talk about growth, right? (29:36) It’s not necessarily just more people jammed into the small town. (29:39) That’s not going to work.

(29:41) Right. (29:41) We had talked about that it could be an expansion of the offering throughout the year, right? (29:48) So the beachhead of this organization is the event and the festival itself. (29:53) Right.

(29:54) But there’s 363 other days. (29:57) How many days is the festival? (29:58) Three. (30:00) 362 on most years.

(30:02) That you can affect change and provide value in the world. (30:06) So what are some of the concepts that you guys are coming up with there to expand that (30:12) outward value?(30:14) Well, we’re looking at a number of things right now. (30:17) Don’t give out any secrets.

(30:19) We haven’t agreed on that. (30:20) But what we know, we know our capacity for what it takes us to do the September festival, (30:27) which is significant. (30:28) But where else can we add value to the community? (30:31) And where else can we do programming? (30:33) And that may be more bringing in like a single author event that we could do in the first (30:40) or second quarter.

(30:41) We do one community reads program right now where we invite an author back to our festival (30:46) with a new work to do two days of programming and offer that free to the general public. (30:53) And that’s been very successful. (30:54) And that idea actually came out of discussions that we had during COVID and started it the (31:00) first two years online and then have now moved it into on-site, in-person events.

(31:06) What else might we be able to do in the schools? (31:08) We go into the schools the first, that for last weekend in September, but that’s early (31:14) on in the season, on the school year.(31:16) What else might we be able to do in the schools that doesn’t focus on September, but could (31:22) be later in their first semester or something in the second semester as well? (31:28) So what else might be possible? (31:31) Also, we’ve been talking about how do we grow our audience? (31:36) How do we grow the next generation of festival attendees? (31:40) And what does that look like? (31:41) And who are we competing against to try to get those people in now?(31:45) But what can we do to salt their oaks, so to speak, and provide programming that may(31:53) interest them, but that has to be looked at differently because they’re trying to manage(31:58) young families and school schedules on weekends and sports schedules on weekends.(32:04) So how do we look at those groups as well to grow that audience? (32:09) So those are some of the big things that we’re looking at.

(32:11) And we’re always looking at new creative ways and fun development. (32:14) I have to take a sidebar. (32:16) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed (32:22) to outsmart chaos.

(32:23) Empowered by Juniper Networks, automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist (32:27) AI platform, the world’s first AI-driven wired and wireless network. (32:32) The salt your oats comment, I heard that for the first time on a podcast this morning that (32:37) I was listening to while I was doing my hair. (32:40) And I had never heard that before, but you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make (32:45) him take a drink.

(32:46) But you can salt his oats, which can encourage that. (32:49) So I love that. (32:50) I love that comment.

(32:51) And I can’t believe I’ve gone 47.999 years without knowing that. (32:58) Well, you must be having a birthday. (33:00) Happy birthday soon.

(33:01) In a week. (33:01) Yeah, my brother’s birthday is today. (33:03) Oh, it is? (33:04) Great.

(33:04) I’m glad you told me. (33:06) Make you look good. (33:07) You know, I was just thinking about you.

(33:09) Yeah, happy birthday. (33:13) So I digress. (33:14) One of the things, too, that I can say that what has really been beneficial from the governance (33:19) and fiduciary standpoint that the board takes on is that really allows us as staff to carry (33:26) out the work of the festival.

(33:28) And we look at these new priorities that we have that may not be brand new to us, but(33:33) their current iteration is a little bit different. (33:36) And it allows us to focus on one or two things each year that we can be successful with instead (33:43) of giving us this long litany of four different areas and five goals under each of those areas (33:50) that we have to fulfill that we can’t. (33:55) We are tasked with the operations of the organization.

(33:58) And this planning and this strategic planning is helping us be more efficient as an organization. (34:08) So the system becomes the solution of seeing our success once again.(34:15) In an example, we were very committee heavy a few years ago, and we’re not now.

(34:19) We’ve just streamlined it. (34:21) Because the staff is so involved. (34:24) And just we’ve grown and we realized that that isn’t the most efficient use of our time.

(34:28) And we were not communicating committee to committee like we should have. (34:32) And being the size we are, it’s working much better. (34:36) It’s so interesting how you learn these things, you know, only by going through them, right? (34:42) Okay, why are all these fully committed people? (34:46) Why are we not able to, you know, accomplish this goal? (34:49) Well, then you go back to, like Amy says, go back to, well, there must be a system that works.

(34:54) And Amy also brought something up to me the other day, which I really (34:57) made me feel like connected even more with you was there’s a humility to you as well. (35:04) I mean, you’re very passionate, very strong about this organization. (35:08) But I had brought something up about it.

(35:11) And you said, you know what? (35:13) We’re not unique. (35:14) There’s other book festivals in the world or all over the world. (35:18) And I thought, you know what? (35:19) That’s really great when you admit that, right? (35:21) Because, you know, you could take a very successful HVAC company.

(35:26) And the person could think, you know, I’m splitting the atom different than anybody(35:29) else on earth is able to do. (35:31) And that’s not really true. (35:33) Now, you guys have some great uniqueness or great unique qualities, which is the location (35:38) of this and, of course, the people involved.

(35:40) So we’re not underscoring any of that. (35:44) But I just love the humility that you said, you know what? (35:46) And I work with those people and I talk to those other groups and you collaborate, right? (35:51) And so that to me is that humility of working with the peers, you know, across the nation (35:56) on their festivals or maybe even across the world. (35:58) I don’t know.

(35:58) But can you talk about that a little bit? (36:00) Sure. (36:00) If you Google book festivals in the United States, you will get a very extensive list (36:07) and you will get organizations that have been in operations for decades. (36:12) So as we’re just approaching our second decade, I’m continually looking at what other festivals (36:19) are doing to find ideas that can work for us or that might be applicable.

(36:25) What we’re also doing is we’re always asking authors who are coming to our festival,(36:31) what have you seen at other festivals that you really liked to do or saw that were successful (36:36) and that might work for us? (36:38) And so if we can find ideas that we can establish here in our own way, in our own environment, (36:46) then all the better. (36:47) We don’t need to create the wheel. (36:49) For example, we have a happy hour on Saturday afternoon after all the programming is done (36:55) and we bring together all the authors in one place.

(36:58) We set up a couple bars, the bookstore, the pop-up bookstores in the same facility,(37:03) and people have a chance to buy their book, interact with the author, and get their book signed. (37:08) Well, that idea came from one of my favorite authors, Jim Lynch, (37:12) who came to our very first festival who said, (37:14) I did this event and we did a brunch happy hour and lots of people drank mimosas (37:20) and we sold a lot of books and it was really fun.(37:23) And we thought, hey, that’s a great idea.

(37:26) We could do that. (37:27) And it was a way for people to interact with the authors one more time (37:30) because maybe they didn’t get their book signed right after their panel discussion (37:33) or the long was line and they said, oh, I can go back and do this later. (37:37) So it provided a service and it helps us create more connections with the authors (37:42) and the attendees and it helps us sell books and get books in people’s hands.

(37:47) So that was exciting. (37:48) I also work with local organizations and other nonprofits that become really valuable. (37:55) So even though we’re the only book festival like ours in the state of Michigan, (37:59) we’re the only annual event.

(38:02) Calvin University has a fabulous festival called the Festival of Faith and Writing (38:07) that they’ve been doing since the early 90s, but they do it every two years. (38:10) But three-day format, wonderful. (38:14) There have been things in Ann Arbor, but they’ve been absorbed by the Ann Arbor Public Library (38:18) that are doing things, but just single day like the Carytown Book Fest.

(38:22) But we’re the only ones in a significant mileage radius that is doing this kind of event.(38:30) But there’s also a lot of really good nonprofit arts and culture organizations (38:34) in the community. (38:35) And I belong to the Northwest Michigan Arts and Culture Network (38:39) and actually sit on their board.

(38:40) And we just had a conference and a summit in Traverse City just last week (38:45) with organizations from 10 different counties in Northwest Michigan. (38:50) So we’re talking too and sharing information. (38:54) So somebody may be doing something in a gallery that can relate to somebody’s (38:58) doing something in a museum who’s doing something in an art park.

(39:04) So the collaborative effort is huge in this world. (39:08) And I think it’s been huge for us because we don’t want to do things alone. (39:12) We want to collaborate as much as possible.

(39:14) But we’re not competing against anybody. (39:16) So why wouldn’t we share our information? (39:18) Why wouldn’t we help people? (39:19) Why wouldn’t we talk about where have you found success in CRMs? (39:23) We were talking about CRMs and how important those are now for us (39:27) in being able to keep track of information and the security aspect(39:30) of how we’re collecting donations and how important that is for our donors. (39:33) We have to talk about the security.

(39:36) That’s good. (39:37) You told me you’re using a platform, Salesforce. (39:40) Yes.

(39:41) And you’re keeping data sacred. (39:45) We are. (39:46) And secure.

(39:47) And that’s one of the reasons why you’re using a platform like that. (39:50) So as a cybersecurity person, high five to you. (39:55) But the underlying tone or the underlying message that I keep hearing (39:59) from what you’re talking about is, and by the way, I think I might have lied to you.

(40:02) I didn’t know that much about sports. (40:04) I still don’t. (40:05) But I do know about Kobe Bryant and the Black Mamba theory.

(40:09) Are you familiar with that? (40:10) Which is you get better and better every day. (40:14) We had talked about that with you guys. (40:16) And obviously, everything that we’ve talked about is for the betterment of this organization (40:22) and for achieving its mission of bringing cultural richness and that to the region.

(40:29) Now, I’m going to let you give that mission out in just a couple of minutes. (40:33) But so hold it. (40:33) I know you know it.

(40:36) You told me that the feedback you get, you really get no negative feedback, (40:42) but that you kind of push it onto yourselves to go back to this. (40:48) Debrief to Win is the title that comes to me. (40:51) I know you had your own title, but I was in a talk with Richard Kujo Teschner, (40:56) a military pilot who teaches a business crowd all about debriefing to win,(41:03) whether it’s a postmortem on something negative, (41:05) or if it’s something went well, what else can we do better? (41:08) And I loved when you told me about that.

(41:10) So can you share how you guys go about it? (41:12) And what do you call it? (41:15) Well, it’s just our evaluation process. (41:18) I can’t remember if we talked about it. (41:18) Plus Delta Plus or Plus Delta.

(41:20) That I learned from my experience with Sprint, because in all my past experience, (41:25) evaluation was always a huge part of everything we did. (41:28) And then when we got involved, Sprint had a whole system (41:31) that every event that we did was evaluated with a Plus Delta.(41:34) So what did you do well? (41:36) What do you want to continue to do? (41:37) And what can you do better? (41:38) And it wasn’t what went wrong.

(41:40) It was, how do we make this better? (41:42) And so we have incorporated that with our systems here, (41:46) where we evaluate, the board does an evaluation. (41:50) We’ve asked our attendees, our authors, our moderators, our volunteers. (41:56) So everybody’s giving us feedback.

(41:59) And we’re fortunate where usually there’s multiple glowing reviews. (42:06) And everybody says, I can’t think of one thing that you can do better. (42:10) As a couple of our authors said, I have no notes.

(42:12) I have no notes to tell you what to do better. (42:14) And we love that. (42:15) And can I just share a couple of the evaluation? (42:17) So these are a couple of comments that have come in over the years (42:20) from our authors.

(42:22) One says, I’m a battle-scarred veteran of 34 years worth (42:26) of literary conventions, banquets, and festivals (42:29) all across the US and Canada. (42:31) The Harbor Springs Festival of the Book is hands down the warmest, (42:36) best organized, best staffed, and most enjoyable of any I’ve attended. (42:42) That’s great.

(42:43) I love that. (42:43) This is my favorite. (42:44) The entire enterprise was a model of intelligent creation (42:49) and logistical finesse executed with seamless grace (42:54) by inspired leadership and a diligent company of welcoming volunteers.

(43:00) Love that. (43:01) Should be proud of that one. (43:02) Yeah.

(43:02) And so our staff, this is our staff. (43:06) This isn’t me. (43:08) This is the staff, our volunteers of things that happen.

(43:11) So that’s what’s so exciting. (43:12) So we get glowing reviews, but our staff will have 10 to 15 pages (43:18) of things we want to do better. (43:20) That’s great because we can kind of believe our own bullshit too, right? (43:25) Maybe, yeah.

(43:25) If we’re not careful and we can say, oh, everybody loves us, (43:28) so we’re getting five-star reviews. (43:30) We know that there’s somebody out there who maybe felt slighted or whatever. (43:36) And we just know we can do better, right? (43:38) And if we don’t dig in and do better, then it’s going to fail eventually, right? (43:42) That old statement, you’re either growing or you’re dying, right? (43:45) Well, if you just kind of rely back on your laurels at all times, you’re not growing.

(43:50) And so I just think that that’s really cool because you’re getting (43:52) all these kind of five-star reviews, but you’re taking it upon yourselves (43:56) to say, yeah, yes, and thank you.(43:59) Thank you very much. (44:00) And I know we can do better, right? (44:02) We’re going to continue to exceed expectations.

(44:05) And I just love that about that consistent desire to be better. (44:09) How does that apply at the board level, would you say, Elyse? (44:15) It applies maybe not as directly as it applies at the staff level, (44:21) but we do hear and we like to hear the positive. (44:26) But to your point, Matt, I always like to hear the negatives too (44:30) because I think it makes you grow.

(44:34) And while I like to hear the negatives, (44:36) I don’t want to overburden Amy with some of the nitty-gritty with those. (44:42) Of course. (44:42) So we can do a broad brushstroke and say, yeah, we heard some negative things on this.

(44:46) We know we can do better. (44:47) Let’s not dwell on it. (44:48) Let’s just be positive.

(44:50) Look at it, move on, and try to polish it. (44:52) And that’s where I think my role in the board is, (44:55) is to take that approach when we have things that are not perfect. (45:00) And I’m hoping that that works for you all.

(45:02) I think that especially with whether, so like in IT, (45:06) all of the people that work for me are very passionate technologists. (45:10) All the people, I mean, you’re not signing up as a staff member or a volunteer of this (45:16) unless you have some passion for the book or for the underlying meaning of that to the individual. (45:24) So I can imagine that in your world that it gets very passionate where a board member, (45:31) I mean, even for you, you’ve got to be like self-disciplined to go, okay, wait, no, (45:37) that I have to leave that to Amy and her team.

(45:40) I can’t go into, even though I might feel super passionately about it. (45:47) So I think that that takes restraint, right, at the board level to do that. (45:51) And I think that that’s exemplary of a good board.

(45:54) Well, I think that’s one of my goals in this position right now is to get us to that level(45:59) where we don’t get so focused on one little negative and let’s address it, (46:04) polish it, move on, and know that we have to work on it. (46:07) Because that can be very disruptive and take too much time. (46:10) The president of my company, she makes me go away and do these field trips like this (46:14) so that I don’t go in there and meddle.

(46:17) We joke that it’s nose in, hands out, right? (46:22) And I know that you do a lot of that at nubs nub, right? (46:27) And so it’s great that you can bring those experiences and bring that behavior (46:35) to something like this that’s so special. (46:37) Let’s go back and put you on the spot and tell us the mission of this festival. (46:44) Sure.

(46:45) Right now, it is inspiring readers of all ages (46:49) and celebrating the culture of books in a beautiful part of the world. (46:55) I like it. (46:56) I use the word and I globbed on to yesterday the culture piece, right? (47:01) And we talked about that a region like this could be looked at and people can say, (47:06) oh, it’s a wealthy area, right? (47:08) But we can also look and say, no, the broader area is very diversified, okay? (47:14) And this is very important to enrich culture across all different demographics.

(47:21) Can you talk about that a little bit? (47:23) Sure. (47:23) I think it’s really important as we look wherever we end up living or what feeds our souls? (47:31) What makes us excited to get up in the morning? (47:33) And what can we participate in? (47:35) Either where we can, you know, Lee has talked a lot about giving back and where can you do that? (47:40) And when you look at this region, we’re fortunate to have a fabulous Crooked Tree Arts Center. (47:47) We have the Great Lakes Center for the Arts.

(47:51) That has started pretty around the same time that we’ve been developing things. (47:57) And to have a book festival, there’s a fabulous, there are art residencies. (48:01) Goodhart Artist Residency has this fabulous place up in Goodhart.

(48:07) So when you look at this, if you come to this place and say, could I live here? (48:14) Could I be a part of this community? (48:16) If I’m coming from someplace else that’s had a rich cultural experience, (48:20) we can confidently say, yes, you can find places because we as a community (48:27) have committed to offering the culture and the arts. (48:30) We want to introduce first graders to award-winning picture book authors. (48:36) We want to give them that opportunity to take that book home and put it on their own shelf (48:41) and say, I met this author.

(48:43) I know why they drew that dog just like they did. (48:47) And what a memorable experience that is for them. (48:50) And to be able to hang on to that and grow.

(48:53) We want to have people who walk away from our event and say, I was in a conversation(49:00) with somebody standing in line for a cup of coffee after a session with Elise Graham.(49:07) And oh my gosh, did you get that? (49:11) Did you understand that? (49:12) What did you think about this? (49:14) And to be able to be inspired to have those kinds of conversations,(49:17) I think is so important of what we’re trying to offer. (49:22) Most people can’t get out to places to see this type of event.

(49:30) I mean, they’re not going to or traveling on a regular basis to other places (49:35) where these offerings are being made. (49:38) Authors are traveling all over the place. (49:40) But sometimes you just don’t connect or you don’t miss or you’re not looking for it.

(49:45) But knowing that we can bring the breadth and depth of this fabulous curated program(49:51) to people that they can experience, how fabulous is that for a cultural experience (49:58) and a cultural community? (50:00) I love to see how jazzed up you get when you’re talking about this. (50:03) I like my job. (50:04) I keep thinking, the statement I had in my head was, you’ve just definitely fallen (50:09) in love with the mission from the standpoint, especially from the book standpoint.

(50:13) So I want to kind of give a little bit of a comparison here. (50:16) Contrast is when you got out of grad school, (50:20) you busted out 29 books that you read in 2.5 months. (50:26) Yes.

(50:26) Okay, that’s crazy. (50:28) Good job. (50:29) Thank you.

(50:29) I don’t know how you did that. (50:31) Lots of time in the hammock. (50:32) Okay.

(50:33) A lot of caffeine or something like that. (50:37) And Elise, you’re self-described a couple of different times here of that. (50:41) I’m not as into books at the same level as Amy, right?(50:46) But your love is culture, right? (50:50) And then you also love the governance piece of things and adding structure to it.

(50:56) Let’s talk about that kind of hearing your passion of the cultural piece that we talked(51:02) about, because you’ve been in this region for a long time. (51:07) And that’s been really your, if I was to pick what’s the undertone or what’s the common theme (51:13) for you, it’s enriching culture. (51:15) We’ve talked about that at Nubs Nob, at your ski resort that you are a partner in, (51:23) that you’re a steward of it, right? (51:25) You don’t even consider yourself an owner in a way.

(51:30) Can you talk about that, about how you feel that you’re a steward of this, even though,(51:35) like if I was to put you on the scale, I’d go, Amy, book lover, Elise, book liker, (51:40) you know, something like that. (51:42) Well, yeah, I’d like to speak to that because I’m listening to both of you the last minute (51:46) or so. (51:47) In our business, entry is costly, skiing equipment, taking the time, the ticket, the whole thing.

(51:57) I shouldn’t say that, but you know, so we have developed more cross-country skiing,(52:02) et cetera, et cetera, because it’s an easier entry into the sport. (52:05) But I’m thinking about reading, and we all know we’re seasonal up here, and it can get (52:10) gloomy and cold part of the year. (52:13) And to me, reading is easy entry, it’s accessible, and you can do it 12 months of the year.

(52:21) So I’m looking at it like that too, as kind of a counterbalance to all the other (52:26) activities that go on up here. (52:28) And I just think the accessibility, and it’s there right at our fingertips, why not jump (52:35) in? (52:35) So I love the fact that the festival promotes reading and literature and whatnot that complements (52:42) everything else that we do in this community, because we are so seasonal. (52:45) Yeah, I mean, I’ve noticed for myself, I mean, I’m very energized by people and by activity (52:51) in general.

(52:52) And so that weekend after Labor Day, I go into like a depression, because I go out in(52:58) the bay, and there’s nobody here, you know? (53:00) And so, like you said, there’s where- It’s another sport. (53:04) There’s where the book fills in, right, in those downtimes.(53:07) I know a lot of people love that downtime, but I need that constant action.

(53:13) Can I just add one thing to that, speaking of downtime? (53:16) No, no, no, you can’t.(53:17) Okay. (53:17) No, no, please.

(53:18) Yeah. (53:19) So one of the pillars of starting the festival was to be an economic stimulus to the community. (53:25) And we know Harbor Springs doesn’t need any… (53:28) There’s no other reason to… (53:29) You don’t need another reason to come in the summer.

(53:32) So the founders of the organization looked at the shoulder season. (53:37) So summer’s done, right? (53:39) Smart. (53:39) The bay is a little quiet, right? (53:41) And leaf peeping season hasn’t started yet.

(53:45) The cars are not on M119 going north to the Tunnel of Trees. (53:49) And what became really important was to pick a weekend where nothing else was going on, (53:54) and let’s make it a weekend where it’s an economic driver for the community. (53:59) And that’s exactly what has happened.

(54:01) Last year, our economic impact survey showed $1.5 million. (54:07) And I think that’s low, to be totally honest. (54:10) But that’s what this weekend event, our signature event, is doing for this community, (54:16) is being an impact, an economic impact driver.

(54:20) And that’s so important. (54:21) We would have to know that that’s low because we know that someone came to this (54:25) region and fell in love with it and bought a house, right?(54:28) And so it had to have happened at least once. (54:31) So we can estimate that that number is low based on that.

(54:34) Yeah. (54:34) The number of conversations we hear from authors talking to their significant other on the phone (54:38) going, honey, we’re moving to Harbor Springs. (54:42) You know, the other impact though, and I know that this wasn’t necessarily (54:47) part of the actual mission or whatever, but it’s definitely a byproduct is, I mean, (54:54) we know that Michigan has ranked fairly low in the country in its reading scores.

(55:00) And so anything you’re doing to bring reading awareness and reading enjoyment or proliferation (55:07) of reading to the younger generation is immensely important. (55:13) It’s huge. (55:14) And when the festival was started, we were putting authors into schools.

(55:18) We didn’t have the book component of it. (55:20) We started that at a very, very small level the second year. (55:25) And each year it’s just grown significantly, which has been really exciting.

(55:30) And you’re right. (55:31) We’re a literary organization. (55:33) This is a literary festival.

(55:34) But anything that we do to promote literacy is always so important. (55:42) And we love that. (55:43) And giving, as we’ve said, giving students a chance to get a book that they can call their (55:46) own, that they get to take home, that they get to share with their family, that they(55:50) get to put on the shelf.

(55:51) We know from studies that that has an impact on their future education. (55:56) Great.(55:57) Wasn’t there a, there was a statement or something you’d made? (55:59) There’s a huge international study that’s been done that shows the one common denominator (56:04) across every aspect of a family’s life or in a child’s ability to advance in education (56:11) is the number of books in the home library and access to books there.

(56:18) Yeah, because I mean, everybody has access to a public library, but it actually goes(56:25) back to how many books are in the home. (56:27) Right. (56:28) Wow.

(56:28) Exactly. (56:29) Social and economic status of the parents doesn’t matter. (56:34) It’s books on the shelf.

(56:38) And so if we’re one of the few organizations in the area that’s doing that, so we can’t(56:44) stop. (56:45) So we’re doing it again. (56:49) You know, people who have watched the podcast that I’ve done with others, you know, I talk (56:54) a lot about our, the vision for our company.

(56:57) It’s to build a legacy organization that outlives the founders of our organization. (57:01) And that is a destination for employees, clients, vendors, partners, you know, so that (57:07) people have a clamoring towards it. (57:10) What’s it like to, you know, for you guys, for both of you to be a part of an organization (57:15) that you know that you’ll never see the end end, right? (57:20) To know that you’re a contributor of the stewardship of the time that you’re here.

(57:25) What’s that like for you knowing that it will, it will live on, you know, beyond you (57:29) guys. (57:31) Oh, I could speak all day to that. (57:35) Go ahead and start.

(57:38) For me personally, but I’m in a for-profit world. (57:45) I really am stewarding, and you use that word a lot, the next generation to let them know (57:54) the values of the founder, which was not me, but to let them really understand his (57:59) values. (58:00) And I want to steward those values and hopefully they will get it and go on and on.

(58:05) I want the business to grow and develop and be fresh, but they’ve always got to respect(58:13) the people. (58:14) It’s the people that make the organization, and I never want the next generation to lose (58:19) sight of the people part of it. (58:23) And that would be the legacy that I want to leave is taking care of your people.

(58:27) You know, I’m hearing two things out of that though, too. (58:30) One thing you said, and I think this is very easy for all of us, especially when you talk (58:34) about life cycles of organizations. (58:36) It’s for current gen to knock previous gen, right? (58:41) Like I’m going to do it so much better.

(58:42) Right. (58:43) And I don’t think that that is not what you’re saying. (58:46) No.

(58:46) You’re actually, what you’re saying is respect the people, all constituents involved,(58:50) including the history of this place and the values that were established early on. (58:57) Right. (58:58) And take the characteristics of the founder, polish them and grow them and make them better (59:08) than, better than they wanted them.

(59:10) There you go. (59:11) I guess that would be the. (59:12) Love it.

(59:12) Better than, better than you’re expecting. (59:14) Yeah. (59:14) Better than you left it like anything else.

(59:15) Yep. (59:16) Yep. (59:16) Great.

(59:17) So Amy and I are going to leave this better than we left it, right? (59:19) Exactly. (59:21) And I think for me, as I look at the festival, I want to make sure that when we’re looking (59:27) back to say, when we look at however a mission statement gets edited and refined and as you(59:39) go forward with that, that we always look back, that we understand that this is in Harbor(59:44) Springs and this is the wonder of Harbor Springs is always going to be a part of everything (59:50) that we do. (59:51) It could get bigger.

(59:52) We could, we could start expanding and doing things in other places. (59:57) And, but it’s, but it’s Harbor Springs and the uniqueness and the intimacy that we’ve (1:00:03) been able to provide. (1:00:04) And that’s one thing that the authors always comment about is just that it’s, it’s big (1:00:09) enough, but not too big.

(1:00:11) It still allows people a chance to interact. (1:00:14) It makes things and people accessible to one another. (1:00:18) And it can only get better.

(1:00:20) Our legacy, it will be better. (1:00:22) It will be better in its programming. (1:00:24) It will be better in its operations, but it won’t be just big for big sake.

(1:00:29) And it will always acknowledge Harbor Springs as the place that makes it unique.(1:00:34) That’s great. (1:00:35) That will be around in decades to come.

(1:00:38) I think you’re both fine stewards of the organization. (1:00:40) That’s my, my read.(1:00:42) If somebody was listening or watching and wanted to serve in, in, in any small way what (1:00:49) would the recommendations be? (1:00:51) I mean, I, I would imagine funding would be something that people could, could add and (1:00:56) they wouldn’t have to lift a finger.

(1:00:57) No, our website has all of that information. (1:01:02) And it talks about opportunities to volunteer, talks about ways to support the organization, (1:01:10) talks about ways to attend the festival. (1:01:13) We’re selling out.

(1:01:14) It’s when we begin ticket sales, which will begin in the middle of July. (1:01:18) It’s a, it’s a quick process. (1:01:20) So you, if you want to attend, you do need to register.

(1:01:25) We do have a few ways to come to events like the happy hour that I talked about.(1:01:29) That’s always free to the general public. (1:01:31) We do some children’s programming at the library.

(1:01:33) That’s free. (1:01:34) And we wanted to make, and we make everything accessible.(1:01:37) Our registration this year is $25.

(1:01:41) Yeah. (1:01:41) So because we still are committed to making it accessible for people.(1:01:47) And children and students are always free.

(1:01:51) Okay. (1:01:51) So we want to make that happen. (1:01:52) But the, our website has all the information and more that you would need to know about (1:01:56) the festival and ways to participate.

(1:01:59) So. (1:01:59) Fantastic, fantastic. (1:02:00) I mean, it seems like, you know, in a noisy world here, right, that, that the stories are (1:02:06) still connecting us and whether it’s the stories that we’re telling on the podcast (1:02:10) or the stories that your writers are telling.

(1:02:13) So this has been a beautiful time to spend with you guys. (1:02:16) And if there’s, is there anything else you want to make sure that others know about this (1:02:20) or, or just having come to Harbor Springs and check it out. (1:02:26) Indeed, just that.

(1:02:28) Let’s do it. (1:02:29) Okay. (1:02:29) Thank you.