0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

Welcome to another episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m (0:40) Matt Loria, and sitting here with my friend, Karen Wood. Hello, Karen.

(0:44) Hey, Matt. (0:45) Nice to see you here. Nice to have you.

(0:47) Good to have you, too. (0:48) You are the CEO of MyCare Health Center, and I will always get that right from now on. (0:54) Yes.

(0:55) And this is your second debut as a podcast guest. Is that correct? (0:59) That’s correct.(1:00) Okay.

We’re going to just keep ramping it up from here. (1:03) Okay, let’s go. (1:04) Good deal.

Karen and I have known each other for a long time. I wouldn’t say that we know (1:10) each other exceptionally well, but we were neighbors. Our kids went to the same college (1:15) together.

Swing in the same circles, if you will. Both have quite a love for Lake St. Clair (1:23) here in Michigan. If you’re watching from outside the state, it’s the biggest lake in the state, (1:29) correct? This isn’t a test, so if you get it wrong, it’s okay.

People can Google it. (1:33) I think it’s the biggest lake outside of the Great Lakes in our state.(1:39) All right.

With that qualification, I think you’re right. (1:42) Okay. Perfect.

So we talked a little bit about your background, and here we’re talking about (1:51) business, life, technology, and transformation. So basically, you can talk about anything, (1:56) and this is just a good opportunity for me to get to know you better and our viewers to get to know (2:02) you better as well. You had told me, though, that you came into your professional world more(2:09) accidentally.

I did. Can you share how you got here? Yeah. Start out at birth and then just (2:16) walk us up to being the CEO.

This is guardian angel stuff. It’s guardian angel stuff. (2:23) I had taken a step back from my full-time career as a dietitian because I went to school for (2:29) dietetics, so that’s what my degree is in.

I had had two children. At the time, I had a newborn (2:37) and a two-year-old. I was working as a contract dietitian part-time at a couple different (2:43) organizations.

I got a phone call from a friend of mine who was the CFO at a federally qualified (2:51) health center or community health center. He asked if I wanted a part-time job. I said, (2:57) no, I don’t.

I have a lot on my plate right now. He said that he really needed me to work for them (3:07) due to grant conditions. They had to have a dietitian provide services as part of this (3:13) particular grant through the state of Michigan.

I said, again, I’m not interested. Go find another (3:19) dietitian. He wasn’t taking no for an answer and coerced me into talking to the program manager for (3:26) the program who was just a very lovely, lovely person and truly believed in the work that they (3:33) were doing and the mission of the organization.

She again shared with me that they needed a (3:39) dietitian or they were going to lose this grant. They wouldn’t be able to take care of these moms (3:43) and babies, which just tore at my heartstrings. I agreed to meet with her, which I probably (3:51) shouldn’t have done if I didn’t want the job.

It’s kind of like going to a shelter to look at (3:56) a puppy. I met with this lovely woman and she talked to me about the work that they do and the (4:05) families that they help and the moms and babies. It was home visits.

I had done some home visits (4:13) during my internship and I really didn’t want to do home visits. She had agreed to send someone (4:20) out with me just to try it. I went out with a social worker who ended up being a very good (4:27) friend of mine.

I’m like, okay, I’ll take the job. I did home visits for many, many, many years. (4:36) Not always in great neighborhoods.

It really helped me connect with people. I learned that (4:44) for the most part, people really looked out for me and I felt pretty safe. There was only a couple (4:52) of incidents that I didn’t feel safe, but at that point I had been doing it for so long.

I was (5:00) pretty street smart. I protected myself. I never put myself in a position where I was vulnerable.

(5:07) I always made sure I was toward the door, that type of thing. Anyway, long story short,(5:13) I ended up taking that job at a community health center. Did you even know what a community health (5:19) center was at the time? Not really.

I still barely do, but that’s what we’re here to learn. (5:24) Yeah, not really. It was really just fate because I just truly fell in love with the work (5:31) and believed in the mission and realized that it was kind of my calling.

I left that organization (5:40) for a short time and went to another community health center, but I’ve been doing work at (5:46) community health centers for almost 25 years now. I took the job that I didn’t want and really (5:54) found my calling. We know that the puppy dog close works with you.

Put the puppy in your hands. (6:00) Rescued a couple dogs now. My husband’s the same way.

It’s like, (6:05) don’t go look at a puppy if you don’t want a puppy. That’s right. You’re walking out with one.

(6:09) Absolutely. The 25 years in these community health centers, (6:19) walk me through how you got into leadership then because you were a dietician. I guess in (6:24) business world, that would be like you were an individual contributor essentially, and then (6:29) now you’re running a whole center.

Walk me through some of your career pathing that got you there (6:37) because one of the things that we know is that younger people are listening from time to time (6:41) and it’s really hard to understand. How do people get, how do you start here and end up here and (6:48) why? Is my kids got a little bit older and out of diapers and in school? (6:56) I got to a point where I wanted more. I felt like I was capable of more.

I remember having (7:02) a conversation with the CEO of the company and he ended up being a really good friend of mine. (7:10) I had a lot of respect for him. I had a conversation with him and I said, (7:13) I think I’m ready for a little more.

If there’s an opportunity, let me know and we can talk about it. (7:20) At that point, the state of Michigan had approached that CEO about starting a WIC program, (7:28) which stands for Women, Infants, and Children, which is just a phenomenal program. There’s an (7:36) education portion to it.

Let’s explain what WIC is. Give us your definition of WIC so we can (7:42) make sure people understand what WIC is. It stands for Women, Infants, and Children, (7:47) and it provides nutritious foods, education, formula if they’re not breastfeeding to (7:56) people that qualify.

You have to income qualify for the program. It’s a phenomenal program because (8:02) there’s an educational component. What I like about it is you can only buy nutritious food with (8:08) it.

It provides things like education and support, breastfeeding support, making sure that you’re(8:17) talking about some health education pieces like, is the baby going to the doctor? Is the baby (8:22) getting well child visits? Are you having any parenting issues? There’s a community referral (8:28) component to it. I ended up starting a WIC program for this community health center, which (8:38) doesn’t sound like a big deal, but it was a big deal to start from nothing. We built out (8:43) the basement.

We created a whole WIC program in the basement of this facility. (8:50) What city was this in? This was in New Haven, Michigan. Connected with the (8:57) state of Michigan infrastructure for the WIC program and just trained staff that had never (9:02) done this work before.

It was kind of a big deal. Honestly, probably one of my biggest (9:08) accomplishments in my career because it literally put food on the table for people, people that (9:16) really needed help. It was nutritious food.

It wasn’t just, here’s 20 bucks, go get what you (9:22) want. You could buy fruits and vegetables and nutritious things. I started with the WIC (9:28) program.

Then I ended up managing a couple other programs, maternal infant health program, (9:37) which was the program that I worked with previously to care for moms and babies and (9:42) provide support. Then I ended up managing a third program, which was a teen program. It was(9:49) based on SchoolLink Health Center.

We provided services to the children of the school, (9:56) behavioral health, healthcare, just immunizations, whatever, sports physicals, whatever the kids (10:02) needed. I managed that program. Then I think I did the homeless program as well.

I kept (10:10) getting programs that I was supervising. Then I ended up being the chief operating officer when (10:18) that position opened up. I did operations for a couple years, hard job.

Operations is a hard (10:26) job. I’ve got a lot of respect for people that do ops because you’re the one that gets the (10:31) phone call at midnight when the alarm’s going off. You’re the one that has the wet and dry (10:37) vac shopping up sewage as it’s coming up through the drains until the company can come and do the (10:44) professional restoration.

That’s a true story. It sounds like it. I wouldn’t think you would (10:48) have gotten that to script as a non-real example.

Oh, yeah. No, I wrecked a really nice pair of (10:56) shoes vacuuming up the sewage. Yes.

Then I left that organization. I was the chief operating (11:05) officer. Then went to the health department for a couple years.

Then I ended up at my care. I (11:12) came in as ops there as well. Then went into the CEO role in 2017.

Okay. How would you liken the (11:23) difference to the E versus the O, the COO versus the CEO? Let’s talk about the differences in (11:32) the work that you do on a day-to-day basis. What does a COO do in a community health (11:38) organization versus what does a CEO do? The COO would be responsible for day-to-day (11:46) operations.

Making sure the clinics are running well, that the facilities are (11:52) kept up and staffed. There’s pieces of the organization that the COO is not responsible (11:58) for like financials, IT, that kind of thing. As the CEO, the buck stops here.

(12:06) I’m responsible for everything. I take it really seriously. I want people to feel supported(12:13) because at the end of the day, we’re all rolling in the same direction.

Nobody succeeds if we don’t (12:19) all succeed. That’s my goal is that everybody’s successful and doing well and that they feel (12:25) supported so that we can reach our goals. Did you ever have any business training, (12:29) like any executive leadership type of training or formal college training in business? (12:35) Yeah.

A little bit. It’s kind of funny. My career, I did get a couple of certifications.

(12:44) I did a program. It was called the CEO Institute. Oh, okay.

(12:50) Yeah. When I took this position- Who was that through? (12:52) The National Association of Community Health Centers. It was really for new CEOs and it (12:59) provided a network of support.

I still have friends from that group that I see or could call (13:05) and we share resources and bounce ideas off of. That was really helpful. Then I did a certification (13:13) through UCLA for a health executive certification.

I did that, I think it was 2021, I finished that. (13:24) Then now, this is kind of comical, now that all three of my kids have graduated from college (13:31) and I’m not paying their tuition, I actually have gone back to get a master’s in business through (13:38) MSU, through the Berks School of Management. Oh, wow.

Okay, great. (13:42) Yeah. I’m, I guess, not quite halfway done with that.

That’s been fun. Actually, it’s interesting (13:51) because a lot of the things I’m really familiar with because I’ve done them. Sure.

(13:56) I’m killing this finance class right now. I’ll bet. (13:58) Yeah, I’m killing the finance class.

What drove you to want to do this at this (14:01) stage in your career? Yeah, that’s the million dollar question. (14:05) Because you’re only going to work for, what, 30 more years? (14:07) Yeah, just 30. Yeah, good question.

I am probably the oldest person in my program, (14:13) I think. I don’t know for sure, but on the Zoom, it looks like I’m the oldest person. (14:19) I met with an executive coach.

I had an executive coach and we went through a lot. We really got (14:27) down into the nitty gritty of things, goals and aspirations and what I wanted to do when I grew up (14:34) and what makes me happy, what makes me sad, where I struggle, all of it. We got into it.

We got into (14:39) the stuff. Great. (14:41) One of my goals had always been to get my master’s and the timing wasn’t right.

When you’re paying (14:49) your kids tuition and helping them get through school, they’re the priority. The kids have (14:54) always, all through both of our careers, for Ron and my husband and me both, the kids were (14:59) always the priorities. We were paying tuition and didn’t have a lot of time.

(15:06) We kind of spread the kids out a little bit. My son, Ronnie, just finished college in 2023.(15:13) Let’s talk about the family real quick.

Ron, your husband? (15:17) Yes. Recently retired from GM, engineering management. He retired in 2023, June of 2023.

(15:27) And he’s now managing, building Airbnbs and flipping them and keeping them, managing them. (15:35) Helping the kids with their home purchases and just trying to have some fun too and (15:43) doing a little bit of both. Ron’s retired.

Our oldest, Taylor, her degree is in human (15:53) resources management. She actually works for my middle daughter, Courtney, who has a degree in (16:00) architecture and started her own architect and design firm. Courtney and Taylor work together.

(16:09) I’m going to be a grandma in July. Courtney’s expecting our first grandchild. (16:15) Both girls got married last summer.

It’s been a busy year at the Woodhouse. (16:19) Yeah. And then Ronnie, the baby, he is working as an aerospace engineer and getting his master’s in (16:26) engineering right now.

Everybody’s doing well. Thank God. Thank God.

Yeah. Everybody’s doing (16:32) well. Awesome.

Yeah. So I forgot where we were at. Well, we were at you going back to college (16:38) for your master’s and why you decided to do that.

Yeah. It was just kind of a goal of mine forever (16:42) and the timing wasn’t right until recently. And then when I met with my executive coach and kind (16:48) of talked through it, it was kind of on my bucket list.

So I decided to go for it. (16:53) What was another breakthrough besides I’m going to go back and get my MBA that the business coach (16:57) or executive coach maybe pulled out of you, right? Because they don’t tell you what to do. They (17:04) kind of help inspire through a lot of questions and soul search, helping you with soul searching.

(17:08) Yeah. So I don’t think I was as assertive as I should have been. It was funny because I recently (17:16) went to the McComb economic forecast and one of the speakers, I can’t remember his name, but he (17:22) said, it’s not bragging if it’s true.

And that kind of resonated with me. In my role, I’ve got to brag (17:30) about the work we’re doing because it’s such good work. And, you know, it can be intimidating when (17:36) you’re in a room with a lot of important people to not go up to them and talk to them.

And talking (17:44) with this coach, I realized that it’s important to do that. And it’s my job. It’s truly my job (17:52) to promote the work that we’re doing.

So now when I’m at functions, I try to go up to people and (17:59) really talk about the work that we’re doing and how good it is. And it’s really kind of special (18:06) because we’re competing for federal grants and getting them, like getting them. We’re competing (18:13) against thousands of other community health centers for national grants and getting them.

(18:21) So there’s only so much money out there and you’re fighting for it. (18:25) Yeah. And I work with, our CFO is a phenomenal grant writer and her and I were like the dynamic (18:33) duo.

And she usually heads up the project management of the grants because I’m good, (18:39) but she’s better. And we write just really competitive grants. And these grants increase (18:46) our workforce and they provide services to the people in our area that are really needed, (18:53) really underserved populations.

And, you know, we bring jobs, jobs to the area and people that live (19:01) and work in the area, they spend money in the area. So it’s like an economic thing. (19:06) Sure.

I’m going to build off of your, you know, that remind me, what was the statement that he (19:13) said? It’s not lying. It’s not, it’s not bragging if it’s true. Okay.

Yeah. You know, I also have (19:20) read and often repeat is that the CEO is the chief repeating officer. So not only are you repeating (19:26) to the outside world, what it is that you do and why it’s important and why you’re so much (19:32) better at it, but you’re also repeating on the inside and repeating those messages that maybe (19:38) are getting, you know, you’re sick of saying it, but we don’t have that luxury of being sick of (19:43) saying it because you have multiple people.

We have similar size, uh, workforces between our (19:47) two organizations and, and, you know, you can’t stop just by saying it once you have to, you have (19:54) to be flying that flag consistently. Yes. Yeah.

This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by (20:07) Auxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks. (20:13) Automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform.

The world’s first AI-driven (20:18) wired and wireless network. One of the things that, um, has been really important and important (20:33) message that I’ve had to really try to hit home is that urgent cares are not good care. (20:40) You know, when you go to an urgent care, they’re dealing with your sore throat, they’re dealing with (20:44) whatever your rash, whatever you’ve got going on.

And they’re not looking at full person care. (20:51) They’re not looking at your immunizations. They’re not looking at your health history.

(20:55) They’re not looking at the whole person. So when a patient calls and they’re sick, (21:02) you need to get them in. Yeah.

Because they’re going to go to an urgent care. And unfortunately, (21:08) people don’t realize it. And when I say it’s not good care, I don’t mean that they’re not (21:14) taking care of that person because they are, but it’s not.

It’s not holistic. It’s not tentative, (21:20) holistic care. You really need a relationship with your primary care provider to really look at (21:27) proactive health care.

Sure. I mean, well, you can use a couple of examples, right? You go to (21:31) an urgent care and you have a sore throat, your blood pressure might be elevated. It might be (21:35) elevated just because you’re sick, right? But it also might be elevated because you have high (21:39) blood pressure, right? Or they, they look in your mouth and they’re looking at your throat, (21:44) but they noticed that you have a ton of decay in your teeth.

And if they can see it visibly (21:49) without an x-ray, you know, that it’s pretty bad, right? And if they’re not doing anything about (21:53) that, but they’re just, they’re going past the teeth and looking at the throat. Now we’re not (21:57) treating the whole person. So, so, so let’s talk about what, you know, what is a community (22:04) health organization? I’m still a little bit confused in terms of the funding pieces of it, (22:08) because I understand that you are reimbursed through Medicare, Medicaid and other insurances, (22:15) but then there’s also federal funding.

So I’m going to sit back and let you talk for a while (22:20) here, because I really want to understand, you know, what is the difference between a community (22:25) healthcare organization, because I’m, because I know it’s more holistic than the urgent care. (22:29) Right. I know it’s keeping people also out of the emergency room, which is the most expensive care.

(22:35) Right. And needs to be reserved for the most urgent of, of issues or emergent of issues.(22:43) So talk a little bit about it, talk about what the services are, why it’s different, (22:47) and then let’s, then let’s, we can talk back and forth throughout this, but my multi-part (22:51) question is, is also talk about the financing side of it.

(22:54) Yeah. Yeah. And it is confusing.

It’s very confusing. (22:57) Oh, good. So then I’m, I’m not alone.

(22:59) Yeah. Yeah. It’s healthcare’s best kept secret, in my opinion, because it is one-stop shopping.

(23:05) We do multiple service lines under one roof and our care team talks to each other. So we have (23:12) medical, dental, behavioral health, psychiatry, podiatry, transportation. We do addiction treatment.

(23:23) That’s about it. So there are some health centers that do even more than we do. (23:28) Yeah.

So when somebody comes in for, let’s say, to see the doctor, (23:33) they’re being assessed for depression and other behavioral health conditions. And (23:38) when’s the last time you saw the dentist? And is English your first language? Can you read and (23:44) write? You know, do you have trouble with stable housing? Do you have food insecurity? All these (23:52) things. So we’re screening for all, a lot of different things, right? Things that people (23:57) need to be healthy and, you know, be productive members of society, essentially.

(24:03) Yeah. Well, even go back to, I mean, what got you into this was the, being a dietician. So(24:08) obviously healthy eating matters to you.

It matters to you, not just for yourself, (24:12) but you want to promote that to others. And that’s what you did in the first part of your career. (24:19) Educating folks.

I mean, and obviously this is a big topic right now in politics, right? Make (24:24) America healthy again. And so it’s very timely, right? That what you’re doing (24:33) also institutes to people, like they just, we take for granted that they don’t know. (24:38) Right.

So can you talk a little bit about that in this mix here as well? (24:43) Yeah. So it is an interesting time. I feel community health centers are positioned very (24:50) well to be part of make America healthy again.

And the reason for that is because the care that (24:56) we give is holistic, it’s high quality and it’s affordable. So our patients, their healthcare (25:04) costs are lower than other healthcare patients. And it’s because we’re all under one roof.

We’re (25:11) looking at, you know, the whole person we’re really providing efficient care. We’re really (25:18) leveraging a lot of technology so that the work we do is very efficient. (25:24) Is it even just shared services too? I mean, like just the simple fact of one receptionist for five(25:30) of those organizations altogether, or is it still five receptionists? And I’m using that as just an (25:36) example, but like, do you get some economies of scale through it besides the software? (25:40) Yes.

Yes, definitely. So, you know, if you had a dental practice and you had a medical practice (25:47) and a behavioral health practice, they would all need their payroll system. They would all need an (25:52) accounting system.

They would all need IT. They would all need an electronic health record. They (25:58) would all need, you know, different things.

It’s all under one roof. So there are some economies (26:03) of scale. It’s very astute of you, Matthew.

Well, golly, thank you. (26:08) But yeah, exactly. And the cool thing is, so a patient might be working with a community health (26:15) worker, but have the ability to schedule an appointment with our different service lines.

(26:21) So they have the same, you know, pretty much the same, not all of them, but pretty much the same (26:26) appointment book and they can go in and schedule and do things.(26:30) Now, do you also, I was mentioning, you know, my nephew has special needs, (26:35) has Down syndrome and transportation is a big deal for him. So to another two-part question,(26:41) I love multi-part questions.

Yeah, go for it. (26:43) I don’t like answering them. I like giving them.

On the transportation side of things, (26:50) obviously that would be an economy of scale. That would be something that would make it much (26:54) more efficient, especially if you have somebody who it’s hard to get off of work, right? They (26:59) can go and do the dentist, doctor, and maybe podiatrist or whatever, psychiatrist or whatever (27:04) it is, the multi-part that they need to do. But what about serving people with special needs? (27:10) Is there a lot of focus there as well? Yeah.

So we don’t turn anybody away. (27:15) I mean, there are times where I’ll give you an example in our dental center. (27:19) There are some very, very developmentally disabled children that would need a general (27:25) anesthesia for certain dental work.

So, you know, our, usually our dentist will, (27:32) they’re just amazing. You know, they really do. They have certain tricks, you know, (27:37) and they make it kind of fun and, oh, let me see your teeth, you know, whatever.

So they can (27:41) usually get done what they need to do. But there are times where it’s just not in the patient’s (27:47) best interest because they’re, you know, just really struggling and they need a higher level (27:53) of care with anesthesia to get their cleaning. Okay.

So that’d be one example of where you can’t (27:58) service that to that degree. You’ll still continue to do the rest of their care though. (28:02) Yeah.

We do everything that we can and we don’t turn people away. So we really try to, you know,(28:09) take care of everyone that we can. But there are times where it just doesn’t make sense because (28:15) it’s not in the patient’s best interest.

But yeah. Yeah. So you touched on transportation.

(28:20) So transportation is a real barrier for people, you know, especially if you don’t live like on(28:26) a bus line. Sure. So when we pick our locations, we try to pick a location that’s on a bus line, (28:34) you know, strategically so that people can access care.

But there are times where they don’t live (28:39) on a bus line. And so we provide transportation as part of our services. So yeah, we’ll go out (28:45) and pick up the patient and bring them to their appointments.

Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. I had mentioned (28:51) when we were talking the other day that in so many ways, it feels like almost the concierge level (28:59) physician type of treatment, right? We’re both real familiar with that model. Yeah.

And how (29:05) would you liken the two or maybe compare the two? Yeah. So we really leverage the support team (29:12) and people are encouraged to practice at the top of their scope. So medical professionals have (29:19) scopes of services, right? So we want to save our time.

Like stethoscopes. Right. Okay.

Yeah. (29:25) You’re funny. Yeah.

So like a doctor, you don’t want them really. So why are you missing your (29:33) appointments? Right. Highest and best use.

Yes. There you go. Okay.

Yeah. So we have community (29:38) health workers and care coordinators and nurse case managers and medical assistants and a whole (29:44) support team that can intervene as needed where it used to be, you know, when you went to the (29:50) doctor, you had your doctor and they had a medical assistant or a nurse and that medical assistant (29:57) nurse may have also been the receptionist and they may have also done the billing and maybe even the(30:02) payroll. So, you know, now the care team is very different because we’re looking for outcomes.

(30:11) We’re looking at health outcomes. We want people to be healthier. So the model is changing from (30:20) you see a patient, you get paid for seeing that patient to health outcomes.

Talk about that a (30:26) little bit more detail that for us, because that’s a buzzword that I’ve heard a lot and it makes (30:32) sense on the surface, but getting to the outcome, I really like to understand that. Yeah. And it’s (30:38) very pretty new.

It hasn’t been around that much, but we have what’s called value-based agreements (30:46) and it’s moving towards like an affordable care model. So when we see our patients, we’re doing (30:54) things like educating them. Okay.

The emergency department is for like really serious things. If (31:01) you have a cold or the flu or sore throat or something, you want to call us because every day (31:09) we save appointments for people that are sick. So when you’re sick, call us because we want to take (31:15) care of you.

We don’t want you going to the emergency department because it’s very expensive, (31:20) right? So we get in our value-based agreements, we’re getting critiqued or ranked on how healthy (31:28) our patients are. If they have high blood pressure, is it controlled? If they have diabetes, (31:35) is it controlled diabetes? How often are they going to the emergency department or inpatient? (31:42) Have they been in to see us in the last year? Lots of different things that we get critiqued on. (31:48) And if we’re performing well, better than our peers, we might get an incentive as baked into (31:54) our program.

So the motivation is a healthier patient population so that people live healthier (32:01) lives, cost the healthcare system less money, and then we provide that care. And if we do well, (32:08) we get a bump. If we don’t do well, there’s risk.

So you want to do well. (32:13) Okay. And what can that risk be that you’re just not going to get compensated for (32:17) the services that you provide? Yes.

Or a lower reimbursement rate could be. (32:22) Okay. Okay.

Well. So if they’re assigned to us, they’re our patient, right? (32:27) I was going to say, and how does somebody get assigned to you or does, how does somebody sign (32:30) up? Can they just say, Hey, I live in the neighborhood here. I want to come here and (32:34) have you be my, my, my doctor.

I mean, for like a better term. (32:39) Yeah. So like, um, you know, a lot of the HMOs or Medicaid, Medicare, you have to select a provider.

(32:46) So this is the thing where they say, who’s your primary care physician. And so is this someone (32:50) then says your, your, my, your, your group is. Yep.

Exactly. Okay. Exactly.

So some of the (32:57) insurance companies you don’t need to select, but the majority is kind of moving towards, (33:02) you have to select a primary care provider. Got it. Got it.

And then you become that provider (33:06) of record or is it, what’s the specific industry term? Yeah. Yeah. Provider of record, primary (33:12) care provider.

And then, um, and then your organization is ranked upon the outcomes for (33:19) those for that particular correct. Yeah. With, with our patients in these specific agreements (33:24) and there’ll be more agreements all the time, like, cause the, the healthcare industry is moving (33:30) towards more value-based or affordable care.

So why can a regular doctor’s office exist without (33:38) the, without the grant money coming into them, they’re getting reimbursed through insurance as (33:45) well. How does, how does that work different for you versus a regular doctor’s office? Yeah, (33:50) that’s a, that’s a very astute question too. So, so we, um, I’m giving you 20 bucks every time (33:56) you call me astute.

Okay. All right. All right.

You got it. Oh, you’re 40 so far. Okay, perfect.

(34:04) So we, we’re just like a regular doctor’s office in some of the reimbursement that we get. So, (34:10) you know, we either have our value-based agreements or the old school agreements (34:14) where we see a patient, we get paid for seeing that patient. Got it.

Um, we also get a modest (34:20) federal grant for providing supportive services or safety net services. Um, so things like our (34:27) transportation program, that’s a safety net service, care management, um, community health (34:34) workers, that type of thing. So that’s how you’re able to then layer those services in where the (34:39) regular doctor’s office can’t.

Yeah. We support quite a few of them, like our nurse case manager, (34:47) that type of thing. We support some of them just through our regular budget, (34:51) but some of them are supported through our federal grant.

Got it. Got it. Interesting.

(34:56) Yeah. And we do things like, um, extended hours because we know, you know, people are working, (35:03) it’s hard to get to a doctor’s appointment. So all of our clinics have extended hours.

(35:07) So, because we want people to have access to care. Got it. And what happens if somebody just (35:13) doesn’t have insurance? Can they pay cash to come to you? Yeah.

So we actually have a sliding scale (35:19) program for the on or underinsured. So it’s based on family size and income. Okay.

So we don’t turn (35:25) people away based on ability to pay. We actually enroll them in our sliding fee program. So they (35:31) pay a portion of their appointment, the cost of their appointment.

Got it. So is that similar to (35:38) like how an emergency room is not allowed to, you know, really turn people away? Yeah. So, (35:44) um, TALA, I think it’s called, that’s like if you’re, um, in a life threatening condition or (35:49) in labor that they’ll take care of you.

Um, it’s a little different in that it’s really not a law. (35:55) It’s just part of the community health center movement and that we don’t turn people away (36:00) because we know bad things happen when people don’t have health care. And what would you say, (36:05) I mean, how, how, how bad do you take it on the chin financially every year from just you guys (36:10) just having to cover the nut? Yeah.

About 6% of our patients are uninsured. Okay. It’s pretty low.

(36:19) Okay. It’s pretty low. And we’re, you know, we’re checking in with them.

Like a lot of times (36:24) somebody might be uninsured because they’re out of a job. So in a month they might have a job (36:29) and have insurance. So, you know, every time somebody comes in, you know, what’s your insurance? (36:35) Do you have insurance? Do you need help? You know, so conversations are happening, you know, (36:40) so the majority of our patients are insured.

Okay. So yeah. Great.

94% of them. And do you feel (36:47) like, um, is there any part of your population that you’d like to do a better job making sure (36:52) they know the holistic nature of the services? Or do you feel like you guys just knock it out (36:57) of the park there? I think there’s always room for improvement. I think in general, um, pediatric (37:03) dentistry is a highly underutilized area.

Um, so we’re trying to partner with, um, like Healthy (37:12) Kids Dental program to, to really let people know, you know, dental care in children is incredibly (37:20) important and your child has coverage. So get them in, you know, my care, we can take care of your (37:26) kids, call, call my care, get them in, or we’ll, we’ll reach out to people. And dental is kind of (37:33) a weird thing when you think about it, right? If you haven’t had regular dental care, just think (37:39) about sitting in the chair and allowing somebody to poke around in your mouth.

It’s really kind of (37:44) weird and intrusive, right? Sure. So we want children as soon as they start getting teeth to (37:50) come see us so that we can have like a really positive experience and have the dentist. Oh, (37:57) let me see your tooth.

And oh my gosh, are you brushing your teeth? And just make it fun and (38:01) positive because if they start getting cavities, it’s going to hurt and it’s not going to be fun. (38:07) And it’s going to be a really traumatic experience. I always find like, you know, when you, when you, (38:12) when you hear people passing judgment, right, especially of underprivileged folks, it’s like,(38:17) why don’t, why don’t they just go to the dentist? It’s like, well, you grew up in a house(38:21) where your mom and dad took you to the dentist.

So you, you actually came almost built in knowing (38:26) that, you know, even, even, even if mom and dad weren’t there all the time pushing it, you kind (38:32) of know that every year you go to the dentist at least a couple of times, or maybe at least once, (38:37) right? And if you grow up in an environment where the education’s not there, you’re, (38:43) you’re really rebuilding or, or building from the ground up these habits that just were never (38:49) there. Right. So how do you guys, um, I guess maybe, can you tell us a couple of stories maybe (38:55) of like, wow, this person came from a, from a life of never doing this to now we’re, you know,(39:03) I mean, now that you’ve been in the business a little bit, you know, now their kids know what (39:07) to do.

Do you have any success stories like that, that, that really like warm your heart and that (39:13) you remember really well? I love these stories. Yeah. Um, funny story.

I just interviewed and (39:18) hired a dentist. Okay. So as part of the interview process, it’s always like, why’d you go into (39:24) dentistry? Right.

You know what she said? Because I never saw the dentist as a kid. Wow. My parents (39:31) never took me to the dentist.

I didn’t realize how important it was. And then a lot of times (39:36) you have bad things happen and you need cavities that needs fillings and all the things. So (39:42) she wants to do the work to prevent that and educate and do some teaching.

So yeah. I thought (39:48) that was cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Trying to think stories are so important and always hard to think (39:54) of when you need to.

Yeah. When you put on the spot. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause I didn’t tell you prep (39:58) up. No, you didn’t.

You did. Um, I can tell you one of our, um, so we’re governed by a volunteer (40:04) board of directors and they’re phenomenal. There’s 11 board of direct there’s 11 directors (40:10) phenomenal people.

They’re all volunteers. So they do this because they believe in the community. (40:15) Right.

So we have a board member and she told me this story and she wants me to share it. (40:22) She went to see one of our providers and she hadn’t had a mammogram in years. Right.

Cause (40:28) she’s a busy mom, you know, busy working, busy with her kids. And our provider, um, said to her, (40:35) you know, you need to get a mammogram and okay, I will. I will.

And she didn’t. So she brings her (40:41) daughter, this board member brings her daughter in to see, I don’t even know if it was her, (40:47) it may have been a different doctor or whatever. Okay.

This nurse practitioner sees her in the (40:52) hall and pulls her aside and says, Hey, did you go get that mammogram? Oh wow. And she says, no, (40:56) I didn’t, but I will. I, she says, do you promise me? And she says, yeah, I promise.

(41:01) So anyway, she went and got her mammogram, breast cancer, double mastectomy, chemo double. I don’t (41:09) know if she had chemo or if they just did the double, but she attributes this nurse practitioner (41:14) was saving her life. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So that’s the type of care, the personalized care, you know, (41:22) really monitoring screenings.

You know, we, we’ve got, I managed how we leverage the data. (41:29) When a patient comes in, we have like this repository of health information on every (41:35) patient. So when a patient comes in, we have, we prep for that.

We call it pre-visit planning. (41:42) So before the patient comes in, we’re able to go into our data analytics platform and (41:47) print out a report on every patient. Sure.

They need this immunization. They need a colonoscopy. (41:52) They need a mammogram, whatever the case may be.

And then we huddle our whole care team huddles (41:58) every morning and we go through, okay, when Mrs. Smith comes in, she’s going to need X, Y, and Z (42:04) care team knows. So. Or when Mrs. Smith comes in, she’s been avoiding her mammogram.

Let’s, (42:09) let’s tackle her at the door and let’s not let her get out until she sets the appointment. (42:14) Really good care. Yeah, it is.

I mean, I, you know, I just liken it to business, right. And I mean, (42:20) the best of the best, right. The best of the best have amazing personal organizational systems, (42:24) right.

The best executive, the best employees. Yeah. And, and even the best of the best, (42:30) we require some type of reminder, whether it’s, whether it’s, you know, on the electronics, (42:34) that’s reminding us and we need to set it so that it keeps dinging until we hit that we’ve done it.

(42:40) Um, and that’s how it is in life too. Right. And we need those reminders all over the place.

I (42:46) mean, you go back to just being a kid and it’s like, you know, I was the kid who definitely (42:51) wouldn’t have gotten his homework done if my mom wasn’t remind, remind, remind, remind, no, (42:56) believe it or not. Yeah. Um, look at me now.

I’m still trying to get out of doing homework. Um, (43:03) yeah, I tried to not go home until after my wife has helped the kids get the homework done. I’m (43:07) just teasing.

I’m just teasing. Um, but, um, I just set expectations really low for, I tell her, (43:14) I don’t know any of that stuff, so I can’t help. Who helps them with their math? She does.

She (43:19) does. Oh yeah. She’s a, she’s a teacher.

Yeah. So I got it built in. That makes sense.

That was (43:23) by design. That makes total sense. If I marry a teacher, I won’t have to ever.

Yeah. She’s pretty (43:29) awesome. She is.

You did well. You married up. I did just fine.

You can tell her I said that. (43:34) She never watches this, so I’ll have to tell her. You gotta tell her.

(43:38) Um, but you know, it’s that, that reminder piece is like, it’s, it’s so important. And I feel like (43:45) I want to know how this is on the, on the healthcare side of things where, (43:48) um, cause I can tell you how it is on, on even whether it’s sales or whether it’s cybersecurity, (43:55) right. Um, I know that we all get fatigued, you know, let’s, let’s say we have a client who we(44:00) know they need multi-factor authentication, right.

They need the, the, the duo, the, the, (44:05) the, you know, the two factors. Perfect. You know, they may have to remind that client (44:12) for quarterly meetings for the, for two years before the client finally says, (44:17) okay, I mean, we were like doctors where we can’t force you to do anything, but we have to remind, (44:23) and we have to continue the responsibility of reminding throughout.

And so I feel like (44:28) whether you’re in sales and in, you know, where do the best, the best salespeople know how to (44:34) follow up appropriately. I mean, I’m not, I’m not saying they need to be constantly on it, but (44:39) how many times I, you know, in my sales career where the person says, I’m so glad you called, (44:43) I totally forgot to do what I said I was going to do for you. Right now, again, you have to meter (44:48) that with, you can’t call every day.

You have to, you have to space that out and do it professionally, (44:52) but you can find that in your own organization or, or even maybe just, you can answer this as (44:58) your own organization or in community health period where the fatigue happens because, (45:03) because your people are human too. Right. Right.

Man, I’m sick of reminding this person to go get (45:07) her mammogram. I’m sick of this. I’m sick, but, but I’m going to do it anyway.

And how do you (45:11) kind of keep that all up? Because I think that really translates to parenting business, (45:16) a whole lot of other areas of life. I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the knock. (45:21) When an employee knocks on your office door and says, got a minute? And you immediately know it’s (45:26) some sort of it incident, but Oxium IT can help whether you’re having a problem, need consulting, (45:31) an upgrade, or a managed IT approach.

They focus on preventing cyber attacks and proactive solutions (45:37) that deliver results. My friend, Matt Lauria and everyone at Oxium are ready to help before or (45:44) after you get the knock visit Oxium.com and let Oxium IT help you outsmart chaos. (45:50) Yeah.

So we’re leveraging a lot of technology to do the grunt work, right. To give the, (45:57) the pre-visit planning. Okay.

This is what they need. Number one. And then we have what’s called (46:03) gaps in care reminders.

So we have a couple different programs that allow for text messaging, (46:11) phone calls, or email reminders. So we can do a campaign like mammograms and we can blast (46:20) out a reminder to every one of our patients that is late for their mammogram. Got it.

Yeah. Got it. (46:29) And is this a CRM system? Like a, like a, oh, like a HubSpot or Salesforce or something like (46:36) that.

It was a very specific to your industry. And we actually have, so there’s not one program (46:43) that does everything that we need. That’s life right now.

Yeah. So we actually have a couple (46:48) plug and play systems that we use to do that. That’s actually a good reminder that even in a, (46:53) in an industry that’s matured or maturing, there’s still no one size fits all piece of software that (47:01) just fixes everything.

If I, if I had more time, I’d start my own company and do a one side, (47:06) you know, like a one, a module that did everything we need, but yeah, I don’t have a lot of time. So (47:12) when you got 30 more years, we already decided to get in your MBA. (47:16) But yeah, it’s, it’s really, you know, you can’t do everything.

I mean, you, you’ve got to, (47:23) you got to use technology and you got to use it safely. Like your MFA. Yeah.

I mean, (47:29) that’s just not negotiable because it’s not, you know, promoting your business. It’s not a matter (47:36) of if it’s a matter of when you’re going to get an attack. Yes.

Well, and the thing is, (47:41) you are being attacked constantly. It’s just, does the stuff you have is the stuff you have? (47:47) Hopefully you never know. Right.

But and really with the whole, if versus when I had a customer (47:56) tell us the other day, which, which was really an astute CEO. And he said, look, I have no, (48:03) I’m not living in a fantasy world that says we’re never going to get successfully attacked by a, (48:09) a malicious you know, cyber attack. But when I do, I need to be able to go back to my insurance (48:17) company and answer to truly be like what we answered on our, on our questionnaire is accurate.

(48:25) And I thought, wow, that is a really smart. That’s a really smart CEO because it’s like(48:34) going to a doctor, right? It’s like, well, I go to a doctor, so I’m never going to be unhealthy. (48:39) That’s not what a good doctor is guaranteeing.

Right. Right. So we’re kind of in a similar (48:43) business model here.

It’s like, and we’re going to continue to tell you and show you what are (48:46) the best things to do, the best practices, but you can still get hit by a bus and you can still (48:51) get cancer and you could still have a heart attack and you know, and that’s just part of life. And so (48:56) when I heard that, I’m like, man, that applies to so many other areas of life that we have to (49:03) remember that. It’s like, why are you doing good? Well, cause it’s the right thing to do, (49:08) not because it’s going to be perfect for you all the time.

So you get that in your world. (49:14) Yeah. And, and I mean, as far as like cybersecurity, it’s like ever changing, (49:19) right? Because these bad actors are just doing more all the time and it’s gotta be really hard (49:24) for you to keep up with it.

It’s hard to keep up with. The (49:27) hardest thing to keep up with though, is that there’s a new technology every day (49:31) and there’s tens of thousands of programs out there. I mean, if you are an IT professional and (49:38) are getting calls, so like if you have an IT director or I’m not sure if you do it at the, (49:43) at the facility, but they’re getting called from so many people every day.

I’m getting called from (49:49) so many people every day wanting to share other technologies. And it’s like, at some point you (49:55) have to say, you have to continue to, to investigate, but you, you can’t, you can’t (50:02) have them all. You can’t afford them all.

You can’t manage them all. You know, and not all of (50:07) them are pertinent, you know, to your use case. And so depending on their sales activity, they (50:12) might be trying to sell you a product that you don’t even need, which is, so it’s a very confusing (50:17) world with that.

So I appreciate you asking, but it’s luckily we’ve got some really smart people (50:23) that are trying to be as best we can be every day. Yeah. It’s important work.

Yeah. Thank you. (50:31) Yeah.

So what else would you like other people to know about either yourself (50:36) or your organization? Like tell us a secret. A secret. Oh my gosh.

It doesn’t have to be (50:43) like a salacious secret or anything like that, but it can be. Yeah. So I think my care has kind (50:50) of flown under the radar for a lot of years.

And so we’ve been around since 2010 and I don’t know (50:57) that everybody understands the impact that we have. I know I didn’t until, until we’ve had (51:03) these conversations. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, the impact on, on people’s health, right. People that (51:10) wouldn’t necessarily appreciate healthcare or access it if we weren’t here.

You know, number (51:18) one, we’re here. Number two, you know, employing, you know, like 60 people depending on the day (51:26) and bringing money into the local economy. I think, you know, when we look at the big picture, (51:33) it’s really important, you know, Michigan, Michigan’s doing a lot of really good stuff, (51:39) right.

But we also need to keep working at it and keep competing. And, and we’re literally (51:46) out there competing for federal grants and, and getting them. So I think it’s really, (51:54) it’s important to stay aggressive.

And, you know, if you don’t keep up with things, (52:01) you’re going to be left behind, especially in healthcare, because things are changing so quickly. (52:06) And if we don’t do good work, we’ll be left behind and our competitors will do it and (52:12) probably not care as much. How do you think that these programs with the, with the reimbursement (52:19) based on the outcomes, is it really, do you, do you believe that this is a positive thing (52:24) that’s helping to hold people accountable? I do.

Meaning hold physicians and physician groups? (52:29) It’s a fabulous question. Think, think about the payment model right now. (52:34) You know, well, previously it’s kind of changing.

It’s in a state of flux, but (52:38) you got paid based on how many patients you see. Healthy people don’t typically see a doctor as (52:45) much, right? Sure. People come when they’re sick.

So you’re essentially paying doctors to see (52:53) patients more. We want to keep people healthy. In this new payment model, in our mission, (52:59) we want people to be healthier.

Sure. So we’re, you know, making sure we’re monitoring them. We’re (53:05) doing more behind the scenes stuff to get them help versus come on in.

We’ll see you, (53:12) you’ll see the doctor. It’s like more of a coach than a rescue, than a last ditch rescue mission. (53:19) Yeah.

That’s a good way to look at it. I’m trying to think of other, you know, any other (53:24) analogies to make of it because it really. Instead of fixing the problem, you’re fixing (53:29) the symptom, right? Yeah.

And you’re treating the symptom. So instead you guys are treating (53:34) the problem. The problem, which is healthy people don’t go to the doctor as much.

Yeah. (53:40) Which then costs the rest of us less. Right.

And that’s our goal. Like that’s our goal where (53:46) people don’t get sick. They don’t have chronic diseases.

They just come in for preventative (53:52) visits. That would be best case scenario. Sure.

Sure. And then just for then the true emergency, (53:59) right? You’re catching things early, but the true emergency, there’s a place for that too. (54:03) Right.

So on this make America healthy initiative, I mean, there’s obviously there’s a (54:09) whole lot of controversial pieces of it, right? With vaccinations and things like that. Right. (54:14) But the, but the general overall, like if we, if we strip that away and talk about the general (54:19) overall message, the message really jives with what, with what your, with what your mission is.

(54:26) Yeah. It aligns with our mission very well because that’s our goal. That’s our mission(54:30) to make people healthy.

So yeah. How are you, but what, what is, what are the challenges you’re (54:35) bumping into? Whether it’s like, I don’t know, just in the messaging that you’re giving or (54:41) politically. And I mean, you know how all this stuff seems to intertwine what, what are the (54:45) problems that you’re bumping into because of it or in misconceptions, anything that would be (54:51) perceived as a negative.

So I think for us, like we’re, our, our federal grant is modest. We’re (54:58) very appreciative of it. We’re good stewards of it.

We do really great things with it, but it’s not (55:05) the majority of our budget, right? It’s a, it’s a piece of our budget. So I think the misconception (55:11) is, could be that we’re a free clinic, which we’re not, or it could be that we aren’t good (55:18) stewards of this federal funding, which we get, which is not true. We’re very, we’re very thrifty (55:24) with it.

We utilize it very well. So I think I think if people were to look at the benefit from, (55:35) okay, we have, you know, this many patients, it costs us this much to see them and they have (55:40) these outcomes, which these studies have been done. It’s very evident that our care is better.

(55:47) People are healthier and it’s very affordable, you know, because everything is a nonprofit. (55:53) Everything’s going back into the business, right? If we have a good year, we’re building a dental (56:00) center, you know, that kind of thing so that we can take care of more people. (56:04) What’s, what’s the difference between that? And, you know, I mean, we hear of the, the non, (56:08) the hospitals, you know, many of them are not, I mean, I don’t know if many or all are nonprofits.

(56:14) Not all, but I think a lot of them are. (56:16) In quotes, right? And then I know that we’ve got, but they’ve got exorbitant, (56:19) you know, executive compensation and things like that that come under scrutiny. (56:23) Yeah.

(56:25) What, what’s, what is this model going to do? How’s it going to, how, how is the, (56:31) how’s it going to change that? Is this going to change that and pull (56:35) business away from the hospitals, move them into the community care centers? (56:41) What’s, what’s, what’s, what’s the future? Yeah. What’s the up, what’s, what’s the, (56:45) what’s the whole like long game of this that whoever’s doing the puppet strings on it, (56:50) what are they really trying to get to long-term goal? (56:53) You know, I, I, I believe the government is looking at, you know, decreasing fraud, (56:59) waste and abuse, which it should be. Right.

I think, and I really believe community health (57:06) centers are part of the solution in that it’s very effective, low cost, affordable care. (57:14) You know, being where, you know, we get audited, we have an audit, we have got an audit coming up. (57:20) We have the government come in once every three years and they do an onsite visit.

They look at (57:26) our services, they look at our patient care, they look at our financials, they look at our policies. (57:34) So if we’re not operating properly and efficiently and taking really good care of people and doing (57:40) our mission, we lose the federal grant. (57:42) Got it.

(57:43) So, yeah, so it’s really community health centers have had bipartisan support for a reason. (57:48) It’s because it’s really good care and it’s cost effective. (57:52) Got it.

Where do you think that fraud away, waste and abuse is real? Like, can you give (57:55) examples? I mean, I know we’ve, we’ve all heard, you know, people miswriting prescriptions and(58:01) things like that, but, but like, can you give any, any, whether it’s a blanket example or a(58:07) detailed example of where did, where’s, where does a lot of that fraud happen? Fraud, waste (58:12) and abuse, right? Like where, where do you see it? (58:15) Yeah. So I, it’s funny. I just did a healthcare law class.

And so some of the things that we (58:23) had to research was case studies from fraud, waste and abuse in healthcare. So it could look like, (58:33) and there, there’s some local things going on, you know, I mean, there’s, you don’t have to (58:37) like read too many newspapers to find stories of abuse, right? Things like, let’s say there’s a (58:46) doctor, Dr. Smith, and he’s never liked that guy from lost in space. No, I just made that up.

(58:54) I just, he sounds shady. Yeah. He sounds, he was Dr. Smith and lost.

Well, I’m a little (59:00) older than you, but yeah. So let’s say I’m a doctor and let’s say, and I hate to even use (59:06) myself as an example because it’s so horrible, but all right, Dr. let’s say Dr. Smith, Dr. Smith (59:12) owns a physical therapy company as well. And so he’s referring his patients to his own physical (59:20) therapy company.

They may or may not need physical therapy. So Dr. Smith is benefiting from that (59:27) physical therapy referral, or it could be a family member or something like that. So that is, (59:34) that’s, that’s fraud.

And then even worse, if the patient is complicit in that as well, (59:39) and never even going to it, but yet getting the care, you know, getting the care that they’re not (59:45) really getting. They’re not even going. Yeah.

Right. If they’re on it. I’ve heard those types (59:49) of situations as well.

Where physicians write, you know, prescriptions and the patient really (59:56) doesn’t even need it. Yeah. And then it gets on the street.

It’s sold on the street. Yes, exactly. (1:00:03) So, yeah, I hope that those people get busted because it’s awful.

I think the government’s (1:00:09) looking at some Medicaid and Medicare fraud, which I’m sure there is. I mean, I obviously would never, (1:00:17) I don’t know of any. Yeah.

Right. We try. Yeah.

Not under our roof, not on my watch, but (1:00:23) I’m quite sure it goes on. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. What are the, what are the next 10 years look like (1:00:31) for, for your organization and then for you as well? Good question.

So growth, growth, (1:00:38) that’s the hope. You know, there’s a lot of people that need good care. I’d like to be able to grow (1:00:46) and provide that care, get the word out about what we’re doing, that we’re a community, a great (1:00:51) community partner.

We do what we say we’re going to do. You know, if we agree to partner with (1:00:58) somebody, we’re going to, we’re going to do it and we’re going to do it well. So, you know, a lot of (1:01:03) integrity with what we say we’re going to do and how we do things.

So I, I, I hope there’s growth. (1:01:12) I hope there’s growth in the next 10 years. What would growth look like other, other areas of the (1:01:16) state or, or the same metropolitan area, but more clinics? Probably more clinics.

Okay. Yeah. (1:01:22) More in the same region.

Probably in the Metro Detroit area. Okay. Yeah.

Just, you know, we’re (1:01:28) not trying to go out and take business from anybody. We’re just trying to meet the need in (1:01:32) the community. Got it.

So we do a community needs assessment every three years and that’s how we (1:01:38) grow. The board reviews the community needs assessment. We have a strategic planning retreat,(1:01:45) which is kind of my, my North star.

I use that strategic plan every day. That’s how we (1:01:52) change and grow. So it might look like, well, we did it in 2023.

We built a dental center. (1:02:00) And the reason we, we had a dental center, we built a second one. And the reason for that was (1:02:05) in Northern to Mid Macomb County, people couldn’t get quality dental care.

They couldn’t get an (1:02:12) appointment. They couldn’t find anybody that would take them if they had Medicaid or other (1:02:17) needs. So we opened a dental center.

That’s great. So yeah. Behavioral people come just see (1:02:22) you for the dental as well.

Yes. Okay. So they can come for just a dental or behavioral health.

(1:02:28) Okay. Okay. But they can also come for the full Monty.

Yes. The full Monty. Yes.

(1:02:33) Well, no, I’ve just remember I’ve, I’ve heard of people who, you know, for one reason or another (1:02:37) on those those plans and dental was the hardest thing to find. (1:02:44) So our goal is to take every type of insurance. So literally if somebody says, you know, Hey, (1:02:50) you don’t take my insurance.

If, if there’s a need, we’re going to reach out to that (1:02:55) insurance company. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. And they, they want to work with us too, because it’s good care. (1:03:04) Great.

Last thing for you is what about any, any books, podcasts, you know, authors in general,(1:03:14) or just people you’re talking to that are really helping shape your thinking right now(1:03:18) that you’re paying attention to. You know, honestly, I’m not doing a lot of podcasts(1:03:23) or reading just because my, my master’s program is so time consuming. You do get a hall pass for (1:03:29) that.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m reading a really reading textbooks.

Yeah. It’s just fascinating finance (1:03:35) textbook right now, but yeah, so I’m not doing a lot of that, but it’s also really interesting to (1:03:42) me. So that’s kind of stimulating me, you know, just doing the master’s program, but (1:03:51) people that inspire me, I, I interact with a couple of people that I just really (1:03:57) think are just amazing human beings.

So one of my board members, perfect example. So I’m (1:04:04) the vice president of families against narcotics now, now called Face Addiction. That’s right.

(1:04:08) We forgot. Yeah, that’s right. We rec, I, I brought that up to you and not realizing that(1:04:12) you were a part of the organization.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s called Face Addiction.

Now we just rebranded, (1:04:16) but so went to a FanFall Fest a couple, well, a lot of years ago now, I don’t know, (1:04:23) seven, eight years ago now. And a young man was the featured speaker. (1:04:29) And let’s make sure before we even get into that, let’s explain what is fan.

(1:04:32) Oh, good idea. So fan is a nonprofit and the mission, I can’t tell you verbatim, but it is to (1:04:40) reduce the stigma associated with addiction. And they do a lot of, we do a lot of community (1:04:47) programming to help raise awareness because a lot of people think addiction is just, (1:04:54) you know, like those people like low income, you know, just in addiction does not discriminate.

(1:05:03) It affects everybody, right? Yeah. There’s a lot of blame that goes on with it. There’s a lot of (1:05:07) stigmatization that goes on with it.

Just negativity more first before going, Hey, if the person had a (1:05:17) patch, this person up, if they have addiction, we look at it societally far different than that. (1:05:23) Yes. That’s an excellent point.

And so true. Yeah. So, so fan is doing street medicine.

(1:05:31) So literally taking doctors out on the streets and helping people that are homeless to access care (1:05:39) syringe service programs. So clean needles, if you’re going to use at least use a clean (1:05:44) Sure. Right.

And, you know, this, the harm reduction programs are very controversial (1:05:52) because people think it’s kind of like you’re encouraging them. Yeah. But it’s really not, (1:05:57) I mean, studies show that building a relationship with someone when they’re in active, you know,(1:06:04) abuse, they they’re more likely to seek care out when they’re ready and because they know you (1:06:11) and they trust you.

Sure. So it’s really kind of a good relationship in that you’re, you’re helping (1:06:17) somebody when they’re at their lowest. And then when they’re ready for help, they’re going to (1:06:21) come to you.

Well, it’s deep down. No, no addicted person wants to be an addicted person. Right.

(1:06:27) Yeah. Somebody doesn’t say, Hey, I want to be addicted. Yeah.

Yeah. So so there’s the street (1:06:34) medicine, the QRT, which is once somebody overdoses, they send out a team. It’s social (1:06:43) worker, police officer, plainclothes and a peer recovery coach to the home and talk to the person (1:06:50) after, you know, after they’ve had an overdose and, you know, are you ready for help? We’re here (1:06:55) for you when you’re ready.

Hope not handcuffs is huge. So hope not handcuffs is, you know, (1:07:01) when someone is ready to get help, they can go to a police department that partners with fan. (1:07:08) And, um, actually we have angels, we call them angels and they, they wait with the person and (1:07:12) we can get them into treatment.

Yeah. I would encourage anybody to go to one of the (1:07:17) events that you guys have. It’s so, well, first of all, I think we all know how many people, (1:07:23) not that we know, I don’t know the exact numbers, but we know that it’s a very low number of people (1:07:27) who get out of addiction alive.

Yes. And when you go to the fan, um, one of your organization’s (1:07:35) events and you see, and you hear from the people who are in recovery and, and the line of them (1:07:43) that is willing to be vulnerable and tell their story and you’re going, oh my gosh, like statistically(1:07:51) these, these are the, these are the 0.001 or whatever it is, right. Of survivors.

And (1:07:59) this, first of all, it’s terrible to think that this is, this is how few people survive, but yet (1:08:04) you’re seeing so many of them. So you realize, wow, this, this group is doing some amazing work. (1:08:08) And when you see the, the sheriff and the doctors and everybody kind of all in one place, it’s, (1:08:15) it’s hard for folks to not realize like, Hey, there there’s, there’s people out there who care, (1:08:21) who want to help you stop this, who are not judging you.

Yeah. Right. And, um, it’s, uh, (1:08:27) it’s, it’s, that’s God’s work.

You’re doing great stuff. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. Fan is my second (1:08:32) love. Well, I shouldn’t say that my husband, my children fan is there too, but yeah.

Um, but yeah, (1:08:40) it’s, it’s really important work. And then, you know, we do addiction treatment at my care too. (1:08:44) So it’s all part of, it’s like this really great group of organizations, you know, (1:08:51) Macomb County health department, Macomb corrections, um, advancing Macomb just, (1:08:58) there’s this really great group of really good people that, that help each other and help the (1:09:05) community.

And yeah. But then you also said that you have a, there’s a CEO group of people that are(1:09:11) in your position all over the nation that you’re also collaborating with, you know,(1:09:17) peer networking with, et cetera, and learning from. So, so this is a, this is a movement that’s (1:09:22) happening.

The health center movement. Yeah. It started out of the civil rights movement in the (1:09:26) sixties, but yeah, it is.

It’s a movement. Wow. Fantastic.

Well, thanks for everything you do. (1:09:31) And thanks for doing this with me. Having me on your show.

It’s pretty cool. Great job. Yeah.

(1:09:37) Thanks, Karen.