(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

(0:37) Welcome to another episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt Loria and excited to bring you (0:43) our newest guest, Sandy Gennaro, known as the rock and roll thought leader. (0:49) Sandy was, or still is, a drummer, but professionally drummed for over 52 years (0:55) and has parlayed his rock and roll career into now speaking, and he’s authored a book.

(1:03) The book is called Beat the Odds in Business and Life. I met Sandy a few months back,(1:10) maybe about six months by this time, where he gave a talk to about 300 people and lit up the (1:19) room. You energized those guys and gals like I’ve never seen before.

Right afterwards, (1:27) I walked up to you and I said, can I have some drumsticks? No, I didn’t say that because you (1:30) already gave us drumsticks, but I said, man, I would like to get to know you and do a podcast (1:36) episode. Thank you for letting that come to fruition, Sandy. You’re welcome.

Thank you very (1:41) much. Sandy, can you tell us a little bit about yourself so that other folks can get to know you (1:50) a little bit more than just my 20-second intro there for you? Basically, I don’t know how far (1:56) back you want me to go, but I started playing drums when I was like, well, I got this drum for (2:02) Christmas at two and a half years old, a toy drum. And I love the fact that I can beat on (2:07) something with sticks and not get hollered at by my mother.

But I didn’t see a drummer play live (2:13) until not live, but on TV. I’ve seen pictures and recordings. I heard recordings.

But when I saw the (2:20) Beatles on Ed Sullivan in 1964, February 9th, that changed my life. And that’s when I decided to (2:26) become a drummer. And I knew it was just a matter of time and started playing drums at 14, (2:33) played clubs and bars and after, you know, graduation parties and backyard parties and (2:41) whatever for about 10, 12 years.

And then I moved to LA to get my first big break in the music (2:48) business. I ended up getting my first big break in New York. And that was in 1979.

I did my first (2:54) first record for a legitimate label, Polygram Records. And then that was the first domino to (3:03) fall, basically. And from there on out, I was on the road for close to 58 years at this point in (3:10) time and with many platinum artists and played on top 10 records and whatever.

But it all speaks (3:18) to the fact that when you engage people, when you take an opportunity to engage people (3:23) and lift them up and put a smile on their face, sometimes the result of that action (3:30) is off the charts positive. In other words, you know, I disagree with the saying karma. (3:38) You know, what goes around comes around in equal measure.

Sometimes what goes around (3:42) comes back tenfold and twentyfold. So that’s basically been the story of my life. I never (3:47) really got a gig from a resume.

It’s always been helping people out, doing a favor for someone, (3:54) not with anything in return, no agenda, just doing a favor for someone and helping them out. (4:01) And that’s parlayed into almost every gig I’ve ever had in my whole life. And then yeah.

And (4:07) then, you know, again, we’ll get into the story, but how I became a speaker and I have a new career (4:13) right now as a speaker and it’s pretty, pretty successful and I’m pretty busy. And that all (4:20) comes from the fact that I wanted to put a smile on somebody’s face. So that’s that’s the way it goes.

(4:27) You know, I was I think I told you when we were chatting is that one of the things I’ve(4:32) been working on for myself over the last couple of years is just reducing cynicism, reducing (4:37) any sort of negative thought that comes to me when I’m first judging a situation or a person (4:44) or whatever. And so I’m calling it D2E, default to empathy, you know, versus cynicism or anything (4:51) else. Right.

You know, speaking. Go ahead, Matt. Go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say, you know, (4:56) you have lived and breathed it in the stories that you’ve told, you know, that you’ve told (5:01) us that I’m hoping that you’ll share here. And it’s really you had a lot of opportunity (5:07) to not be empathetic and you chose otherwise. But I don’t even know.

I’d like you to tell those (5:14) a couple of those stories and tell me what you even think drove that, drove that behavior. (5:20) Basically, to speak to your point where you judge a situation and you have, you know, and, you know, (5:26) when we were born, Matt, we were born with a power of choice and the thoughts that come into (5:33) our mind when we see a situation and we judge a situation, a lot of thoughts come into our mind. (5:39) And but they’re transient thoughts.

And the ones that really root in our consciousness are the (5:45) thoughts that we pay attention to. And we have a choice of what thoughts we pay attention to. (5:51) Now, my my empathy, it’s never really been a conscious effort to default to empathy.

(5:57) That’s basically been my M.O. from from hearing conversations around my dinner table as I was (6:03) growing up. You know, my parents always advocated everybody’s equal, you know, no matter what color (6:10) they are, no matter what sexual preference they are, no matter what what kind of house they live (6:14) in, what color their skin, et cetera, et cetera. So I’ve always born with that.

And it’s been (6:19) a natural way where if I see someone wanting an autograph and I’m really in a big hurry, (6:26) like the Dave in the doorway story that I tell in my presentation, this guy wanted an autograph. (6:32) And I was it was a really hot summer night. And it was everybody was it was after a hot gig (6:38) and everybody was on the bus.

We had a long overnight drive and I was rushing around the (6:42) dressing room on my own. And the key point here is that the person whose name was on the marquee (6:49) was already on the bus. This guy was in the doorway with a camera and a pen to get my autograph and a(6:55) picture.

And I was actually flattered. Now, I could have thought, what does this guy want? (6:59) I’m in a hurry. I can blow.

I could have blew right by him, which a lot of rock star drummers (7:03) would have done. But I didn’t blow right by him because I was flattered that he wanted the (7:07) drummer’s autograph. I was I was walking around, walk around the mall with my mother of 15 years (7:12) old, the first daughter playing drums.

And she used to say, Sandy, why do you dress like those (7:17) Led Zeppelin guys? I understand why you kind of dress like those Led Zeppelin guys, because you (7:23) want to be a drummer. But why do you carry a pen? And I said, Ma, in case anybody asked for my (7:28) autograph, I was 15 years old, already living as if, you know. So anyway, I engaged the guy and I (7:34) signed his autograph.

And he even after I signed his autograph, his name was Dave. After I signed (7:41) his autograph and took a picture, he even asked me to stay a little bit longer because he asked me (7:45) to try to get him a gig in New York City. This gig was in Connecticut.

And he goes, would you get me (7:50) a gig in New York City? I’m a bass player here in Connecticut. And I said, man, I can’t recommend (7:55) you unless I hear you play. So here’s my card.

It’s got my home address and my home phone number. (8:00) Send me a cassette of your playing and I’ll see what I can do. He couldn’t believe you give me (8:04) a home address, your home.

I said, no big deal, Dave. Just I got to go. I got to go.

So he gave me (8:09) a really big hug. Couple of years. I got home from that tour.

His tape was in the mail. I listened (8:14) to it. It wasn’t really that good, to tell you the truth.

But I kept my promise and recommended him. (8:19) Two years later, in the fall of 83, he calls me back and he goes, hey, Sandy, I want you to. (8:24) I found a singer in Queens, New York.

She’s going to be the biggest thing in 1984. (8:29) I want you to be the drummer in a band. And originally I rejected that idea.

I said, (8:32) I’m not joining a baby band, Dave, and ride in a Winnebago again and share rooms in a hotel or (8:38) whatever. He goes, Sandy, you might have. Did you even remember who he was at that time? (8:42) Well, he explained what he was.

He goes, yeah, I met you in a doorway, whatever. (8:47) And you recommended me and whatever. And I kind of remembered, you know, because I don’t recommend (8:52) people on a fly like that a lot.

So anyway, I reluctantly went down to the studio. He says, (9:00) we I signed her to a management deal, this singer in Queens. I signed her to a record deal.

We’re (9:05) doing our first album, blah, blah, blah. Come down, at least meet this woman. I went down and (9:09) it was Cindy Lauper.

And one thing led to the next. I played on time after time in that session. (9:17) And and she you know, when I first laid eyes on her, I said, she’s not going to fly under the (9:22) radar.

This is a brand new artist nobody ever seen. But she had that same image. She was really (9:28) authentic in that image, that image, the hairstyle, the voice.

That’s not a put on a lot of artists (9:34) when they become famous. They assume a certain image and they get more outrageous because now (9:40) they’re famous or whatever. With Cindy Lauper, it was like that when she was a singer in Queens, (9:45) she used to dress like that and whatever.

So I said, she’s not going to fly under the radar. (9:49) Number one. Number two, she played me some songs that they were working on the record that were (9:54) very, very catchy, including time after time.

And I went in as a really, really great song. (9:59) There’s not much to the drumming, but they’re really great, catchy pop songs and and still look. (10:07) So I ended up joining her band.

And that was that was the beginning, the first major domino to fall. (10:13) And, you know, then I went on the road with Cindy Lauper. We appeared on the MTV New Year’s Eve (10:18) Ball and et cetera, et cetera.

At one of the gigs was Joan Jett. And then that led to the Joan Jett (10:24) gig five years later when she saw me play and whatever. So that was the but the but the you (10:30) know, again, I’m not here to wave my own flag.

The bottom line is, is that I defaulted, if you will, (10:37) to sign an autograph to this guy for this guy in the doorway when I was really in a hurry. (10:41) And you know what? I’m still reaping the benefits of this, of that five minutes of Dave in the (10:47) doorway, because in that Cindy Lauper, the first Cindy Lauper tour in 1984, I met the woman who (10:53) ended up being my wife and she’s upstairs right now, 40 years after. So sometimes I think, well, (11:00) what if I were to blow Dave off? Where would my career where would my personal career be? (11:06) And where would my personal life be? Because my soulmate is sitting upstairs right now.

(11:11) So and we’re still together, happily married. And we have a beautiful 30 year old (11:18) girl. Her name is Jerry, and she’s the tour manager for the Pretenders.

So yeah, it works out. It (11:25) works out. It worked out really well.

So the lesson there is when you have an opportunity (11:31) to put a smile on somebody’s face, do it. You don’t do it for an agenda like Dave in the doorway (11:37) didn’t have like a pretty sister behind him that I wanted to meet. It was I just wanted to put a (11:43) smile on on his face.

And if I may expound on that, Matt, the way I look at it is that when we were (11:49) born, we were born with a power of choice, as I mentioned, and I look at we’re also born with (11:55) what people refer to as a soul. And that’s what makes human beings different than any other living(12:00) thing is that we have a soul, we could emit emotion, we can feel emotion, we have the power (12:06) of choice. But I look at it as a little flame burning inside each human being.

And when I engulf (12:13) they when I when I pay attention to Dave and sign his autograph, it’s like me, figuratively speaking, (12:21) having a little spray bottle of gasoline. And I spray David’s little flame. And it engulfs the (12:28) flame just for a second, you know, and and it’s just it’s just and that’s and so if someone let’s (12:37) say a vistas chair, for example, or someone in authority, give someone else life changing or (12:43) business changing advice.

That’s like them holding a fire hose of gasoline on that flame. So the (12:49) amount of positivity that results from an interaction is different. But the thing is, (12:56) you want to engulf that flame in any way, shape or form.

And the bottom line, without getting too (13:02) philosophical at, you know, this hour in the morning, this is how we’re going to be judged (13:08) when we’re pushing up daisies, because you know what, sure, all we make as a business, all we (13:14) make, you know, we want, we have businesses, and we go on tour to provide for our families or (13:21) whatever. But the bottom line is, when we when we die, we everything stays here. And what lives on (13:26) is that little flame, it goes up.

And it becomes one with all the other little flames that have (13:32) passed before us. And basically, my opinion is, and I don’t know for sure, obviously. But my opinion (13:39) is, is that that’s how we’re going to be judged is to what, in our lifetime on this planet, (13:46) to what extent did you engulf the flame in other people that goes on the ledger, you say you sign (13:53) an autograph for Dave on the ledger, you say hi to somebody in a supermarket, you look at the name tag (13:59) and go thank you for your service to the person that’s checking your groceries that goes on the (14:04) ledger, you give someone life changing advice that goes on the ledger in a big way.

You know (14:10) what I mean? It’s all a matter of, of degrees, but it goes on the ledger in the positive way. (14:15) And conversely, if you spray water on the little flame, it goes on the on the negative side of the (14:22) ledger. Yeah, you know, and that’s how we’re going to be judged.

So get yourself a little (14:27) spray bottle from Walgreens, a little spread up a little travel spray bottle, and put it on your (14:32) desk. And let that be a reminder of like, when you’re walking around the planet, in business or (14:38) in everyday life, look for ways to engage people in a positive way. And you know what, (14:44) you will benefit in the long run from that.

This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored (14:57) by Oxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, (15:03) automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform, the world’s first AI driven (15:07) wired and wireless network. I love it.

You know, I mean, it’s like that theory of, you know, (15:21) leave the place in a better condition than you found it, right? Bingo, bingo. That’s it. And I (15:26) think that’s what’s interesting in, you know, your career and where that this also can flow into (15:32) folks that are in business or really just anywhere in life, is that we don’t always have a very long (15:37) time to leave our mark on certain people, right? And so your interactions, like you mentioned some (15:44) like in the coffee shop, right? Or in the Dave in the doorway, right? These are things in time (15:50) in passing, right? These are microseconds or micro interactions that, you know, that we have(15:55) this opportunity to deliver something positive to someone.

And you’re putting a play, you’re (16:01) putting in a position like that. There’s a power greater than ourselves at work, whatever human (16:07) manifestation of that higher power, that’s up to you. It’s not about, it’s not one way or trailways.

(16:14) There’s a lot of different routes to the same destination. So whatever resonates with you as a (16:22) physical representation of that higher power, but we have a little bit of whatever representation (16:29) we have of that higher power, it’s represented in inside of us. We have a little bit of that (16:35) inside of us right now.

It’s the higher power greater than we call it the universe, call it (16:41) God, call it the Lord, call it Allah, call it Buddha, whatever you want to call it. It represents (16:48) a higher power. And when we engulf the flame in other people, it engages the higher power (16:58) in our life.

And then we start getting thoughts and inspirations to do certain things that lead (17:06) to positive results. It’s hard to explain because there’s a lot of intangibles going on. But when(17:12) you think positively about future events, the glass is half full.

Like when you say, (17:18) when you said at the beginning, when you witness a negative situation, you have a choice. You’re (17:26) going to think about it negatively or positively. Or when a problem happens in your life, (17:31) are you going to think about it? Oh, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa was me.

Whoa was me. Pity party, (17:37) pity party. But realize that problems are there to lift us up and to learn from or do something (17:43) differently or pivot or whatever it is.

You know, so, you know, it’s when you think positive and you (17:50) act internally, think positive and externally act positive to other people. The God energy (17:57) smiles upon that and then enables you, clears the path, puts the rudder on your boat, if you will, (18:04) with a nice strong engine and guides you in a certain way. And that’s what that’s I’m proof (18:11) positive.

That’s how my life developed. That’s how my career developed. One thing after the other,(18:17) after the other, after the other, after the other.

And there are numerous examples, Matt, (18:23) numerous examples. And if we were here to 5 p.m., we can basically get the tip of the iceberg. (18:31) Well, you did a great job in just a couple of hours in your talk that you do in front of others, (18:39) to really encapsulate this and really guide folks along through, you know, through your path, (18:46) but then making very tangible tie-ins to what they can be doing in their lives and how they’re (18:54) impacting, you know, especially employees, right? Team members, fellow team members, (18:58) things like that.

I’ve got kind of a story that’s a little bit the opposite of what you’re talking (19:04) about with the, you know, those interactions. And really it’s what, it’s kind of been the catalyst (19:10) lately of, okay, it’s time to talk about this default to empathy because I think it can, (19:16) it can help others. And I was at the doctor the other day, my wife was having a test done.

(19:22) And the way this doctor’s office is set up, it’s on the testing lab is on the lower floor. And on (19:27) the upper floor, there’s the, the, the offices, and there’s a few different physicians and (19:33) physician groups in this, in this building. So I’m sitting in the basement waiting room area, (19:38) and I see a woman come in and she walks up to the desk and you can tell she’s, she’s a little bit (19:44) older.

She’s frantic, not, not, not totally losing it yet, but you can tell that she’s (19:52) confused a little bit. And she comes in and says, I’m sorry, is, is my husband here? And they, (20:00) they kind of looked at her funny and said, well, who’s your husband? She says his name. She says, (20:04) no, he’s not here, but he was, but he was supposed to be, you know, he’s late for his (20:09) appointment right now.

She says, well, I dropped them off five minutes ago at the, at the front (20:13) door and I told them to wait there, but he’s not there. So I assumed he walked down and he didn’t, (20:22) he wasn’t there. So the, so the, the, the nurse says to her, not, can I help you find your husband?(20:29) Or does he have a certain condition or heck, this is a cardiologist office.

So maybe he died (20:34) of a heart attack in the stairway. The woman, the woman says to him, well, if you don’t find (20:40) him in the next five minutes, you know, you’re going to have to reschedule his appointment. (20:44) And I thought to myself, okay, I can’t believe this is happening.

So I, I happen to know one (20:50) of the doctors who owns the practice. So I sent him a text and said, Hey, I don’t know if you (20:54) look at your text, but there’s an interaction going on down here that I don’t think you’d (20:58) be very happy with if you were watching it happen. Cause I know how this guy, this guy is (21:02) empathy off the charts.

Okay. Right. Right.

And so, you know, I kind of sit there, let it play (21:09) out a little bit. A friend of mine has a statement says, let the, let the play develop, you know, (21:14) so don’t always jump right away. Let the play develop.

So I let the play develop a little bit. (21:19) And, and finally the woman had come back again and she says, you know, as my husband showed up, (21:25) I can’t find him, you know, and the woman again says, you know, no, he’s not here, (21:32) but you know, we’ve got this appointment. We, you know, you had better find them.

(21:36) I’m thinking, okay, enough. Right. So I stand up and I said, okay, what’s going on here?(21:42) I walk up to the person and said, she’s like, well, I can’t find my husband.

I said, well, (21:46) let’s, let’s go find your husband. And the, the one nurse ladies looks at me and says, (21:50) and who are you? I said, who am I? I said, I’m somebody who’s going to try to help this lady. (21:57) I said, I know who you are.

I said, you’re the person who’s threatening to get rid of her (22:01) appointment. I said, you’re not helping her. And so, so we went around and I said, okay, well, (22:07) maybe he’s in a restroom.

So I went in all the restrooms, look for him, went in all the suites, (22:11) look for him. We went up on all the different floors and we couldn’t find the guy. So she’s (22:15) like, well, he must have never come in the building.

And I looked at her and I said, (22:18) does he have dementia, ma’am? And she goes, yeah, yeah, he does. And I didn’t realize how bad it (22:24) was. And I said, okay.

I said, well, let’s, let’s, let’s continue doing what we can. So she says, (22:30) I think I’m ready to call the police. And I said, okay, that’s a good idea.

Let’s go down and tell (22:34) the nurse that. So we go back down and this nurse still couldn’t understand why we wanted to call (22:42) the police. And I’m thinking my mind is blown now.

Thank goodness the doctor came down. He, (22:47) he had got my text. So he obviously then read it.

He came down with his assistant. (22:51) You know, they started to circle the jets and this thing got real and they found him. He was (22:56) just in a different waiting room and he had his back turned.

So nobody could, nobody saw him. (23:01) And so long story short, they, they found him. So thank, thank goodness, you know, he was, (23:06) he was okay and everything.

But, you know, I was telling this story to somebody the other day and, (23:12) and they said they, they used a Mr. Rogers sort of example too. They said, this, this is even worse (23:18) than just a regular person not helping you. This is a nurse not helping you.

And we’re trained as (23:24) kids, right? Look for the people that we can trust the police officer, the fire officer, the doctor, (23:30) the nurse, right? That professional, the teacher, you know, and I’m like, oh gosh, this is, (23:36) this is bad. But what was that a bad interaction? Yes, it had a good outcome. (23:43) But the best thing that comes out of this though is, is the learning, right? Hopefully somebody (23:49) learns from this example, right? Whether it’s the doctor’s office, somebody in the doctor’s office, (23:53) or somebody who listens to this, or somebody who hears me tell the story, because I’m not going (23:57) to go out and bash the doctor’s office for this.

This is, this was one or two people making some (24:03) mistakes. You know, it wasn’t, it’s not the MO of the, of the doctors who are, you know, anything (24:10) like that. But I’m hoping that this serves as a positive and that we can leverage this default to (24:16) empathy discussion in a variety of different places, right? And right here, you know, what (24:22) would you and I say? What’s the first thing you would do if you were the coach coming in and (24:27) talking to that, that doctor’s office? How would, how would you handle this? Well, first of all, (24:31) I’m curious to know, uh, the, the person that says, well, you, she’s got, he’s got an appointment now, (24:37) and we got blah, blah, blah.

Was that a receptionist behind the glass window, or was that some? (24:43) That was actually the, the, the nurse or the tech, the medical technician who was supposed to walk (24:48) the person back to the room. So it was, it was, there was both, both people, both types of people(24:53) were there. There was the people behind the glass, and then there was this one, this particular one (24:57) was the, you know, was dressed in the scrubs, right? Right.

Right. Well, you know what my, (25:02) I’m curious about the conversation that, that her superior had with that, you know, that, that (25:08) resulting conversation that happened after the event, um, you know, because if she, she reacted (25:14) that way to that one sorrowful person that had Alzheimer’s and the wife, then, then that’s one (25:21) instance that became, uh, evident, but what happens the, all the other days when Matt, (25:26) when somebody named Matt Lauria is not in the office as backup. Right.

Right. You know what (25:31) I’m saying? Uh, you know, that’s gotta be straightened out. And then I questioned the, (25:35) the vetting, you know, it goes deeper than the vetting of that organization.

How do they vet (25:42) their people before they hire them? You know, it’s like, so anyway, uh, I would have done the (25:47) same thing. I might’ve had a couple of choice words for that, for that nurse too. How could (25:53) you be so callous? This woman is, you know, significant restraint.

Then after the fact, (26:00) you know, my wife walks out and she, cause she had kind of overheard what was happening. And she (26:04) said, you know, that same nurse also said, well, I’m going to check him in, but I don’t, you know, (26:10) but I’m, I’ll, uh, something to the negative, like basically like, I don’t, I don’t believe (26:14) that he’s here. And my wife was like, why on earth? Like, like you got us, you got to pause (26:21) and you got to take that second in these situations and pause and say, what benefit (26:27) this other person have in lying to me? Right.

Right. It, it, it doesn’t make sense that (26:36) the juice wouldn’t be worth the squeeze. Why would I come in and lie to you about, (26:39) about my husband being in this place? And so I don’t know what it is.

I mean, (26:43) but you see it in, you know, you see it in different places. You definitely see it in(26:47) healthcare. You definitely see it in, you know, the, we have the secretary of state here in(26:52) Michigan, but I think you guys have the DMV, right? You have a department of motor vehicles.

(26:55) Uh, yeah. In Nashville. Yeah.

I think they call it that. Right. Okay.

You know, you, you, you, (27:02) you see these, these roles where people are in these roles where, you know, they are dealing (27:07) with the public, right. And the public, the public can be a little crazy. You know, let’s, (27:11) let’s admit that.

Um, but that it’s still another human being on the other end of this. (27:18) Right. And, and what benefit do they have in making something up all the, all the power lies (27:24) in you to, to pause, let that, let that, let that negative thought sit before you turn it into (27:32) negative action.

Right. Well, two questions, two questions to that woman would have, would have, (27:38) would have stopped the negative interaction and would have led right to help versus, you know,(27:43) versus negativity. I can’t find them.

I dropped them off five minutes ago and I can’t find them. (27:49) He’s not here. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The first question I would ask is he, (27:54) does he have any kind of attention deficit? Like, does he have Alzheimer’s? Yeah. You know, (27:59) is there a, you know, I I’m puzzled by, you know, listen, human beings develop (28:06) at a certain different rates. You know what I mean? That consciousness develops at certain rates.

(28:13) And, but when you witness things and when you watch the news and, and especially what’s going (28:18) on in LA now that they’re catching, they, they witnessed people starting the, a fire that in, (28:24) in, you know, a hundred mile an hour winds, are you kidding? But if people would only, (28:29) and I don’t care where you are on the consciousness totem pole, you, it’s very simple. (28:37) And what you said, let the play develop. In other words, stop for a second before you’re acting in (28:44) a certain way.

Think about what are the ramifications of your action going to be in the (28:50) next minute, the next hour, the next year. And if people thought about that, they, they wouldn’t do (28:58) 99% of the negative stuff they do because it always produces a net. What kind of thrill do you get(29:03) about starting a fire? That’s going to endanger hundreds and hundreds of people.

What, you know, (29:09) what there was a story. I read the New York post every day. I read the New York paper online.

I (29:15) live in Nashville, but a couple of weeks ago, there was, there was somebody that’s somebody (29:21) was a homeless person was sleeping on the subway and this other person set them on fire. (29:28) Yeah. Not only that, and watched it, sat back and watched it and fanned the flames.

Think (29:37) what positive is going to come with that. Not only is that, is that, you know, you’re spraying, (29:42) figuratively speaking, what I said before, he’s spraying water on that flame, you know, (29:48) he’s, he’s, what kind of karma is he have to have? You know what I mean? It’s like, (29:53) I don’t know. And then, and then I get, I get, you know, it’s like a snowball rolling down the (29:58) hill.

Me mentally thinking about stuff like that. You know, when people think about war and (30:04) destruction as being a, a way to, to, to come to a disagreement, to come to an agreement about a (30:13) problem, to resolve an issue. Oh, let’s go ahead and destroy their country.

Let’s go ahead and drop (30:18) a bomb on a hospital because we want to come on now. There’s other people. That’s somebody’s (30:24) mother, father, daughter, son, uncle.

You know what I’m saying? It’s like, it just boggles my (30:31) mind, but you know, I think that, you know what, what’s coming up for me when you say that is, (30:34) is it’s the same, it’s the same type of thing when someone’s trying to, you know, (30:39) convert you religiously. Correct. Sandy, you’re going to burn and die.

Okay. Well, (30:44) that’s not a great way to convert me. That’s correct.

Live a life in a certain way. And (30:52) hopefully Sandy says, Hey, you know, things, you seem pretty happy. What, what is, what causes (30:57) that? Well, I’m glad you asked, you know, and then you can go into a conversation, but, but, (31:01) and in my world, you know, we’re in the cybersecurity world.

So we’re, we’re talking a lot (31:06) about, you know, how do we articulate a message that everyone needs these certain things in (31:12) cybersecurity and only 40% of the people have them, you know, without screaming fear and doubt, (31:20) you know, all day long, because the chicken little story, right. Or the boy who cried wolf, (31:26) those don’t work. Right.

If you, if you, if you scream it too loud for too long, it becomes (31:30) just background noise. Right. And so nobody’s hearing it.

So I, you know, I think that you have (31:36) to do, you got to do it your way, right. The way that you do it, which is live authentically (31:42) your way in a good, in a good, positive way. And let the law of attraction make things happen (31:48) versus versus, versus trying to find, trying to force things.

So, right. You know, life, (31:53) life is, I was going to say, well, getting in the positive flow, you know, go with the flow. (32:02) Yeah.

You go with the flow. You’re in that river of the end of the river is flowing nice. And (32:07) if you think about, if you think positively and you treat people right, and you, and you, (32:13) you think about the ramifications of your actions and you try to make it all positive and engulf the (32:18) flame, you’re in that flow of energy.

And, you know, sometimes my visualization, my goals have (32:25) been manifested in real life, but sometimes because of an act of kindness, I get, that’s (32:32) I became a speaker, Matt, is that, and you heard the story in the presentation. (32:37) You got to tell this, you have to tell the story because this is, this is, so one of the things we (32:43) like to talk about on the show is transformations. And I would say this is a mega transformation, (32:49) you know, how you went from rock and roll star to speaker high.

And by the way, highly relevant (32:56) speaker, right. You in, you know, in this, in this area that you, that, that you, you know, (33:07) that you, that you teach people about in the talk that you give. So tell, tell that story.

(33:11) Well, I was like 66, I’m 73 now. So I was like 66 years ago, six to seven years ago, (33:18) I was still touring with a band playing arenas or whatever, but the thought crossed my mind,(33:24) how long are you going to do this? How long are you going to be on a bus with a rock and roll band (33:28) when you want to retire and kick back a little bit like that? I’m playing an arena. I had no (33:32) thoughts of what I’m going to be doing after touring.

And because of my wanting to put a (33:38) smile on when I’m doing an encore, now I’m in San Diego in an arena and I see a woman in a (33:45) wheelchair and she’s kind of making googly eyes at me and I’m making googly eyes at her or whatever. (33:51) You can tell she was kind of afflicted or whatever. And I said, she’s going to get my (33:55) drumstick, said myself, she’s going to get my drumstick.

So we finished the show. I tossed (33:59) her a drumstick from the lip of the stage. I turned to walk towards the left side to go off (34:05) stage.

And I look back and the guy next to her intercepted the drumstick. There was a fork in (34:10) the road. I could have just went, oh, okay.

Well, okay. And on my merry way, but I went back and I (34:16) sure she got the drumstick. I replaced the guy’s drumstick.

So he was happy. The next day I get a (34:22) call from the husband of the woman in the wheelchair and he Facebook messaged me and says, (34:28) Facebook, can I have your cell phone number? You threw a drumstick to my wife last night (34:34) in San Diego. And I thought, well, maybe I should call my lawyer because my, (34:38) my drumsticks are old.

Maybe she poked her eye. I poked her eye or maybe she got a splinter (34:42) because the drumsticks are kind of splintered at that point in time. But I, again, there was (34:46) another fork in the road.

And I said, you know what? I gave him my phone number. He called me (34:52) and he was over the moon, thankful. Oh, thank you.

She’s going to put the stick in a shadow box or (34:57) whatever. In that conversation, he says to me, I’m coming to Nashville to speak. I live in Nashville.

(35:04) He’s in San Diego. I’m coming to Nashville to speak. Can I meet you for a cup of coffee?(35:08) I want to thank you in person for engaging my wife in the wheelchair.

(35:14) There was yet another fork in the road. I could have went, where was this guy? I want to go (35:17) downtown Nashville at 10 o’clock on a Saturday morning to meet a complete stranger. He already (35:21) thanked me, but I, I met, I met with him.

I went down, engaged him. He told me, I asked, he asked (35:27) me about how I got certain gigs. I told him the Dave in the doorway story, how I got Cindy Lauper’s (35:32) gig and what that led to, whatever.

He invites me to his presentation. I went to his presentation. (35:38) He introduced me on the side of the stage.

He asked me if he can convey the Dave in the doorway (35:43) story to his corporate audience. And it was, it was, they, they, it resonated with the corporate (35:49) audience at the end, walking out of that gig. He said, man, you have a speaking career ahead of you.

(35:54) People need to hear this story because it’s really, really important. Long story short,(35:59) the husband of the woman in the wheelchair was a Vista speaker and his name was Michael Pierce. (36:05) He goes by the name in Vistage, or his presentation name is Antarctic Mike.

And he’s a (36:11) very popular, well-known Vista. He does Vistage gigs as well as conferences and all. He’s been (36:17) doing this for 10 years or whatever.

And so every time he subsequently came to Nashville to speak (36:24) for Vistage, he used to invite me. And at the time I’m getting my PowerPoint together. I’m (36:29) trying little chambers of commerce gigs, 15, 20 minutes, just to get my feet wet with the (36:35) whole presentation thing.

I’m used to speaking in front of groups of people because I taught for (36:39) 27 years at a school in Manhattan, music business and whatever. So I taught, I was used to speaking (36:44) to musicians about the business of music. But so I met some Vistage chairs as a result of him(36:51) inviting me.

Michael invited me to his Vistage gigs in Nashville. And one thing led to the next, (36:57) where I became close friends with some of these Vistage chairs in Nashville. And they said, (37:01) when are you going to speak for Vistage? And I said, what? I’m a rock and roll drummer.

What (37:05) am I going to tell a room full of CEOs? And oh man, people got to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. (37:11) I became, they gave me the information to be vetted, to become a Vistage, to be evaluated. (37:16) It was a bunch of online stuff.

And I had to do some pro bono gigs for Vistage, whatever. (37:21) So I ended up being onboarded as a Vistage speaker. And then about a year of speaking (37:27) to these Vistage meetings, I was asked to do Chair World.

And if anybody in Vistage is listening to (37:33) this, is watching this podcast right now, it’s Chair World is a once a year conference that (37:39) Vistage has, and they invite 800 to 900 Vistage chairs from around the world. (37:46) Let’s just give a quick definition of what even Vistage is. Vistage, and there’s other (37:52) organizations like it, but it’s a CEO peer group and people get together on a regular basis.

And (37:58) then bigger groups get together a couple of times a year. And the Chair World is even, (38:05) is really the biggest event of all for where all of the essential group leaders (38:11) go to kind of congregate and they get to see usually what’s considered the best. (38:18) So you might not brag a little bit, I’m going to brag for you.

Only the best get to go present (38:25) there. So obviously you touched enough people that said, hey, we think we need this guy here. (38:34) And the Vistage chairs, there’s 800 or 900 of them in one room from all over the planet.

Okay. (38:41) And it’s not just America, all over the planet. They asked me to do an hour long keynote with (38:47) the drum set.

And based on that, I got a standing ovation from after that Vistage Chair World in (38:54) 2022, 2023, I’m not sure, 2022. And as a result of that, my speaking career just blew up because(39:05) the chairs are the ones that hire speakers for their individual meetings. And they have meetings (39:11) once a month, thousands of chairs have thousands of meetings once a month, and they hire a speaker.

(39:17) So they now, I was in front of 800 to 900 of these Vistage chairs. So as a result, (39:24) I went to Malaysia to speak for a joint Vistage Summit, Malaysia, Singapore, (39:30) in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I’m in talks to go to UK in October of 25.

So, but again- (39:38) Are you approaching about 300 talks? (39:41) Well, just Vistage talks, I’m about 270 now. (39:45) Okay. And then you also do this for corporations and other groups as well, can hire you as well.

(39:52) Private companies. I’m doing one in Seattle on this. I leave tomorrow for Salt Lake, not(39:58) Seattle, Salt Lake City.

I do one on Friday morning to a tire and rubber company in Salt (40:04) Lake City. So those, and then there’s conferences, there’s three day conferences of like (40:10) the welders conference where welder companies, welding companies from all over the country come, (40:15) you know, the three day conferences where breakouts in a big, so it’s, but again, (40:22) again, I hesitate waving my own flag here, Matt. But the reason why I tell the story is that (40:28) it’s because of that defaulting to empathy.

I want to put a smile on that woman’s face. (40:35) She’s handicapped. I want to put a smile on her face and I threw her a drumstick and look what (40:41) my, I have a new career.

My wife is retired now. We were partners in our, in my speaking business. (40:48) She handles a lot of the numbers and a lot of the book orders and whatever.

She handles a lot. It (40:53) takes a lot of stuff off my plate and life couldn’t be better, you know? I mean, but, (40:59) but it’s as a result of me wanting to fan the flame of that woman in the wheelchair. You know, (41:04) when you look, when you take the blinders off, it’s called altruism.

Empathy is looking at life (41:11) through somebody else’s lens and how do you, how would you want to be treated if you had their lens (41:16) on, if you were walking in their shoes, walk a mile in their shoes before you make a judgment. (41:21) But my mother-in-law has a, my mother-in-law has a sign above her toilet. She’s 93.

So it says, (41:29) um, you are my friend when you walk in my moccasins, right? Right. And that’s the, (41:36) that’s the statement. And I don’t know if you know about the name Oxium.

So my, (41:40) my former business partner named this company, uh, our company and it’s a,(41:44) a U is gold and axiom is rule. So it’s our way of saying the golden rule. You know, (41:48) that’s awesome.

There’s all, they want to be treated, but without being, you know, (41:52) we don’t want to be preachy about it or anything, but it’s like, that’s how we know if somebody’s (41:56) a good fit here is if they, do they have the empathy gene, you know, right, right. (42:02) Can they put the other person first? Can they think like that? (42:05) Correct. And it’s, and it’s, and the other word too, that I align with is altruism, (42:12) which, which means thinking outside yourself in your actions and your words, you don’t shine the (42:18) spotlight on yourself.

You see how you can shine the spotlight on other people. And you know, (42:24) that’s why that’s to, to, to, uh, go off offline for a second. That’s the major, uh, role of a (42:32) drummer is to shine the spotlight on the band that he supports, even though he’s the most important(42:37) person in the band, take a lesson.

The drummer is the most important person in the band. The (42:43) band goes as the drummer goes, but it’s the drummer’s job to support. You support the people (42:49) on the stage.

You support the singer, you support the songs. And that’s, that’s the key to a (42:55) successful drummer. You know, think, think about this.

The girls just want to have fun or time (42:59) after time. Just think about, listen to the drum track a time after time. It’s the same drum track (43:05) through the whole song.

There’s no fills, there’s no crashes, there’s no nothing, but it’s in a, in (43:11) a, and that’s why I got the Joan Jett gig. Cause she came to see Cindy Lauper on one, one of her (43:16) gigs and she loved my enthusiasm and she loved the fact that I served those very simple song (43:22) without shining the spotlight on my drummer self with fills and fancy stuff, you know? (43:28) So, you know, you, you explained that, uh, in the talk that I was in, and I know you (43:33) modified the talk a little bit, um, depending on your audience a little bit, but the, um, (43:38) you know, it was all about how elite, how leaders should be taking the same, the same role, (43:44) right? Think of yourself more as the drummer than the lead singer, right? The business needs(43:51) to have somebody keeping time, right? Correcting, right? And, um, uh, so I thought that was (43:57) interesting. What I really find great about it.

I mean, I mean, Sandy, I sit through a lot of (44:02) different talks, whether it’s in Vistage or, you know, in other, um, other groups and things that (44:07) I get invited to. So I’m very blessed that I get to do that, but it’s very rare that I remember (44:14) so many things. And that was why it was so important to me to want to do something with you (44:20) was, man, your, the stories resonate.

You can’t forget them. They’re easy, right? And on top of (44:27) that was the fact, like one of the guys I brought, I brought a guest that day who is now a member of (44:33) our group. He’s a friend of mine.

And he’s, this guy’s a West point grad, you know, uh, aviator in (44:39) the, in the military president of a company, but as stoic as they come. And I looked over at this (44:46) guy during your talk and he’s banging drums and I’m like, man, this guy knows how to get to people (44:55) at their core. And people are still talking about you, which is, which is just fantastic.

So I think (45:02) rightfully so that you were at chair world, like rightfully so that you’re at these bigger events (45:08) and you’re, you’re touching people, but your message is so simple. And, and I just, so, so (45:14) we’ll, you know, the, the kiss model, keep it simple, stupid, right? Like, you know, you have (45:20) these great stories. So we have Dave in the doorway, right? Was a guy that you, you, you, (45:25) you touched then he came back and, and you know, you got to see that one play out full circle.

(45:30) Um, uh, remind me of a couple of the other stories that you like to share with people that (45:38) are, that are memorable. Um, there was one, um, I remember you in, uh, the Johnny Carson show. (45:46) Uh, and I also remember something with you in, in front of the, kind of the biggest group that (45:51) you had ever played for.

There was a few lessons that were learned from those couple of things. (45:55) Can you talk about those? Well, I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the knock, (46:00) an employee knocks on your office door and says, got a minute. And you immediately know it’s some (46:05) sort of it incident, but Oxium IT can help whether you’re having a problem, need consulting and (46:10) upgrade or a managed IT approach.

They focus on preventing cyber attacks and proactive solutions (46:16) that deliver results. My friend, Matt Lauria, and everyone at Oxium are ready to help before (46:22) or after you get the knock visit oxium.com and let Oxium IT help you outsmart chaos. (46:30) Talk about whatever other stories you think are, are the most, uh, there was one, and it’s a lesson (46:35) for corporate that I relay in my talk.

And you, you, I think you heard this when I, I, as a result (46:40) of me, as a result of that first band that I was in, uh, a band called blackjack 1979 was my first (46:48) recording, proper recording for a pro label polygram records. Polydor was the subsidiary. (46:53) Uh, we did a tour in Europe and, uh, at, at one of those, one of those gigs was, uh, there was a (47:02) manager and we did the, the city was Frankfurt, Germany, and there was a manager in the, uh, in (47:08) the audience.

And he called me back a couple of years later and he said, I saw you with this band, (47:13) blackjack. I want you to, I just, uh, uh, we signed this band called craft C R A A F T Frankfurt(47:19) based, and we signed them to a label. We want you to play on the record.

So I went to Frankfurt, (47:25) played on the record. Then a couple of months later, he called me, uh, this is 1985 now, (47:30) uh, actually the early, early winter of 1986. He called me back and this is before the internet.

(47:38) So there was transcontinental phone calls that like, you know, $6 a minute or whatever.(47:42) And he said, we want you to do the tour in support of the record. Uh, so I asked him a question, (47:48) couple of questions before I gave him a yes or no.

How long is the tour for? He said, May until, (47:54) uh, May until September of 1986. I go, what’s the mode of transportation? He said, well, (47:59) we have really no budget. Uh, we got to ride in a van.

Um, okay. What’s the compensation, (48:05) the compensation. I’m not even going to mention.

It was really embarrassing. And I said, and I (48:10) said, man, I’m sorry, but I I’m thinking to myself, I didn’t say this to the manager. (48:13) The manager’s name was Uwe Block.

Uh, I didn’t say this to the manager, but I said, listen, (48:20) he wants me to ride around in a van for hardly any money with three German guys all summer long. (48:25) I, I’m, you know, I don’t think I’m going to go for that. So finally, three, three or four (48:29) transcontinental phone calls later, he says to me, listen, the band really wants you to do this.

(48:34) We’re going to do, we’re going to, um, give you, make you a limited partner in the band.(48:40) So if the there’s a meager salary, but if the album becomes successful and we recoup the advance, (48:45) you’re going to get part of the royalty. I said, man, these guys really, really want me.

(48:50) So the last question I said, well, who are we opening for? He said, queen. (48:55) So now I’m, I’m, I’m like, I said, oh shit, I would have did this tour for free. I love queen.

(49:01) So anyway, we went on tour with queen and now, and now we we’re opening for queen and they’re the, (49:06) the most, and this was last Freddie Mercury in retrospect, it was Freddie Mercury’s last tour (49:11) before he got too sick. And so it was just awesome. We were invited to all their parties (49:18) and queen as a band is just awesome.

And if you get a chance to see them coming around with Adam (49:24) Lambert as a singer go, because it’s just awesome that just hearing these guys, whatever, but as (49:30) people and as a band to the opening act, they let us have the full PA. They let us have the full (49:36) compliment of lights, which is a lot of different. A lot of times a headliner limits the opening(49:41) acts facility, whatever.

Sure. We were also invited to all of their parties, all of their (49:47) part. We were all invited to.

So I had a lot of social time to spend with these guys. And, (49:52) and I asked Freddie, I said, you know, if you’ve seen queen live, or you’ve seen Bohemian Rhapsody, (49:57) you see there’s a portion of every show where Freddie goes and does a call and answer with (50:02) the audience. He goes, hey, oh, and he gets the audience to respond.

And then after about 20 (50:07) seconds, he does this operatic thing with and everybody starts letting smiling or whatever. (50:12) And I said to him, Freddie, why do you why do you? Why do you do that? He goes, Oh, Sandy, (50:19) Queen’s performance is not a spectator sport. We want to see the people get the people involved in (50:25) our success.

We want them to talk about the fact that they sang along with Freddie Mercury, (50:31) you know, whatever. And then I said to Roger Taylor, the drummer, who’s the nicest guy on (50:37) the planet. I said, Roger, I know for a fact, playing girls just want to have fun for night (50:45) after night after night after night the same way.

No fills, no crashes, nothing. It’s kind of a (50:52) challenge to kind of stay involved and maintain your enthusiasm, which I always did. And one of (50:57) the reasons why Joan hired Joan hired me because of my enthusiasm all throughout those simple songs (51:03) or whatever.

And I and because he was on the side of the stage every night. And Roger Taylor is going(51:09) full of enthusiasm. And he’s playing, playing that beat for like 20 seconds before even the (51:17) singing comes in.

And I said to him, I said, man, you’re full of enthusiasm, Roger, (51:22) aren’t you bored playing that? I know I get bored playing girls just want to have fun every night. (51:26) but same way. And he said, Sandy, I’m bored as shit playing (51:29) that song.

But I never want to let my people see me looking (51:34) bored. I want to share the enthusiasm with my audience. And (51:38) then he says to me, and then I asked him, I said, Well, how’d(51:41) you come up with that beat? What? What was that beat about? (51:44) And he said, Sandy, we wanted the very we wanted to create and (51:48) Freddie’s not in his head.

And Brian is not in his head as as (51:51) Roger is talking. We wanted to create a beat that resonates (51:55) with everybody. We you know, not just drummers, not just (51:58) musicians, but the 12 year old girl in Tokyo that wants that (52:02) that hears boom, boom, brat, they know which we will rock (52:06) you and they the next thought that will quit its queen.

So the (52:11) lesson there, the I filtered all of that information down. And (52:15) the lesson that I share with corporate America is that make (52:18) your message very, very simple. Don’t have your people scroll (52:23) through a mile long email to see, you know, an email thread.

(52:28) Well, what is this guy want to what is my leader want this (52:33) week. So make make your message very, very simple. Second law (52:38) second of all, repeat it often.

Because people tend to forget 80% (52:44) of what they’re told a couple of days after they’re told it. So (52:49) people you may be sick of hearing yourself say something (52:52) to your kids or to your group or your team at work, but they (52:57) have their own mental thing going on. So sometimes it takes a (53:01) lot of the same input to root in somebody’s mind.

And always (53:08) never let your people see you looking bored. Always share your (53:13) enthusiasm. Because enthusiasm is contagious.

And enthusiasm when (53:19) you’re enthusiastic about it, it’s a positive emotion and (53:24) positivity. It’s positive. So the three lessons in a nutshell, (53:30) make your message very simple, repeat it often and never let (53:34) your people see you looking bored.

Those are the three (53:37) lessons that I get I get from Queen and I you know, I have (53:41) little memorabilia things all in my studio regarding that tour (53:44) and my studio I’m looking around is full of memorabilia and (53:49) everything I have that a sign a little plastic laminated sign of (53:54) Queens hospitality, you know, I just I told a stole the sign off (53:58) the door with the hospital, you know, so it triggers a lot of (54:01) emotions. And a lot of positive memories about the stuff that (54:07) transpired in my career. And bottom line is, is that, you (54:10) know, I’m not I was not a child prodigy drummer, Matt, I started (54:15) playing at 14.

Nobody in my family, even though my dad (54:19) before he passed away, I was told by my mother that he was a (54:22) big fan of drummers like Buddy Rich, big band drummers or (54:25) whatever. But nobody in my family plays a musical (54:28) instrument. And I wasn’t a child prodigy.

And you know what I can (54:32) do a solo I know is I have a work ethic. I’ve taught drums(54:35) for 27 years. So I have the tools to put the chameleon hat on to (54:40) fit my drumming style to the monkeys or Cindy is different (54:45) than the monkeys bow diddley is different Pat Travers, but I’m (54:48) what I could wear that hat drumming wise, and fit into (54:52) their genre.

But I am not I am not a I can do a solo. And I get (54:57) people involved in my solo. I learned that from Queen I I have (55:01) people clapping along with my solo as I did in at the gig at(55:05) the at the presentation that you saw.

So I you know, I owe my (55:12) success to the guidance of the God energy and the things that(55:17) he puts in my path and I take advantage of. And, you know, I (55:22) had no idea about, you know, signing the autograph for Dave (55:26) in the doorway that’s going to lead to meeting my wife. You (55:29) know, what what guides you what thought process allows you to (55:34) help people out that lead to other things I did.

I was at a (55:38) presentation the other day. And there was somebody in a q&a (55:43) suggested to me when I mentioned that Dave in the doorway story (55:47) and I said what what what guides me what what guides me to sign an (55:52) autograph for the guy where I could easily pass by just blew (55:55) by him. The guy raised his hand and I said, the question to the(56:00) audience was, has any any seemingly insignificant (56:03) encounter lead to unexpected positive results like my Dave in (56:09) the doorway story, he raised his hand, he said, you know what, (56:12) Sandy, I was going to my high school prom, and I didn’t have a (56:18) date.

He got dressed in a suit, and went to his high school prom (56:24) by himself. He’s standing there by himself, like a penny waiting (56:31) for change. And he sees a woman across the gym floor, wherever (56:36) the prom was held.

And he sees a woman standing by herself any (56:40) well, maybe the boyfriend or the date went to the men’s room or (56:44) something. He waited there. And 2025 minutes later, she was(56:48) still standing her by his by his by herself.

He goes and asked (56:52) her to dance. They dance together. They dance together (56:56) again.

They dance together several times that night. And (56:59) then he asked her, Hey, do you want to spend some time (57:01) afterwards, we can go for a bite to eat or whatever. They went(57:04) for a bite to eat, they started dating.

And now, all these years (57:08) later, this guy was like a maybe a 60 year old CEO. He said,(57:12) she’s my wife now. And I’m going what inspired you to go to a (57:18) prom? A you know, couples only event by yourself, get dressed (57:23) and go by yourself.

Weren’t you embarrassed? He goes, I just (57:27) felt it was the right thing to do. Not only that, but it (57:29) inspired his wife to go, you know, his future wife to go. So (57:35) it’s like what guides you is there’s a intangible and I call (57:39) it the God energy that’s inside.

And when you think positive, and (57:44) you’re open to such ideas, just go and take advantage of it, you (57:47) know, and you never know what will happen. And (57:50) well, I remember you’re talking about, you talk about also the (57:55) you got to be you got to have your peepers up though for that (57:58) too. Right.

And so like you, you said that you’re always looking (58:01) for the God winks. Right, right. Whether you’re driving through (58:05) the parking lot, and the the first spot opens up and you pull (58:09) right in, you know, kind of right quickly.

And you go, Hey, (58:12) thanks, you know, right. And so you acknowledge you acknowledge(58:17) that with some gratitude each time to (58:20) absolutely and gratitude and appreciation, man, I’m glad you (58:25) mentioned that because that’s a very, very important part of (58:28) the whole big picture is whatever you have on a positive (58:32) and a positive be thankful for it. You know, if like you said, (58:36) if somebody pulls out of the out of a parking space, and you’re (58:38) looking for a parking space late for your reservation, and (58:41) there’s your parking space.

Well, thank you very much. When I do a (58:44) presentation in Detroit, or in spring, Springfield Spring, where (58:48) was it in Michigan? When I do that presentation in Southfield, (58:53) Southfield, I leave that presentation going, well, thank (58:56) you very much. When I meet people like you, and people come (58:58) up to me and say, man, thank you, I really needed to hear (59:01) that.

Thank you so much. Because to me, I’m the channel. It’s (59:06) not it doesn’t emanate from Yeah, I do my work ethic about (59:09) PowerPoint and what I’m the content or whatever.

But I see (59:13) myself as the channel of positivity where, you know, and (59:17) sometimes I pray being being transparent right now being (59:21) transparent. Sometimes I do my little I put my game face on (59:25) prior to a presentation, and just pray, I just want to be the (59:30) channel for your good positivity. I want I want to (59:33) speak through me, be I want to be your instrument.

And I’m (59:38) speaking to the higher power, which I’m speaking to myself (59:41) really, because as I said, and I’ll believe at this point, till (59:44) the day I die, we all have a little bit of that higher power. (59:47) The higher power ain’t somewhere else. And we pray and (59:50) petition and we expect a booming voice to come out of the (59:54) heavens going Oh, no, it’s those little signs that you get signed (59:58) the autograph, do this piece of piece of crap gig for this oldies (1:00:03) band the tokens because it’s good.

And the musical director I (1:00:07) do him a favor by doing this tokens gate coming off the Queen (1:00:10) tour is another story. I was asked by this guy called me. I (1:00:15) was living on Staten Island.

It was after a Queen tour. Now I’m (1:00:19) on one of the biggest tours in the world like just come off of (1:00:22) it. And he’s asking me to do this piece of crap tokens gig.

(1:00:25) They had a hit in the 50s called lion sleeps tonight. And he was (1:00:29) the musical director bass player and his drummers mother passed (1:00:32) away. His drummers mother passed away.

Two days. He had a gig two (1:00:36) days hence called every got by a Manhattan, every guy in(1:00:39) Manhattan, nobody’s going to do the gig to short notice, (1:00:42) whatever. The money was crap.

You have to bring your own (1:00:45) drums. It was about two hours away from my house in Staten (1:00:48) Island. It was like a 12 hour turnaround.

I didn’t really (1:00:50) want to do the gig. Sandy, you’re the last person I’m going to (1:00:53) call. If I got to cancel the gig.

If you can’t do it, I might (1:00:56) lose my gig. And he was almost close to tears. And complete(1:01:00) stranger, by the way.

And his name was Jerry Renino. Rest in (1:01:04) peace, Jerry. I did the gig.

A couple of months later, he says, (1:01:08) Hey, thank you for bailing me out. And the gig went really (1:01:12) well. It was a pain in the ass to do it.

But it went really, (1:01:15) really well. And a couple of months later, he calls me says, (1:01:17) man, thank thank you for bailing me out. But I’m the musical (1:01:20) director of this TV band that’s doing a reunion tour in the (1:01:24) summer of 1987.

Do you want to do it? We’re playing amphitheaters. (1:01:28) We have a crew. It’s a full blown.

The compensation was not (1:01:33) bad at all. And the gig was the monkeys when the monkeys(1:01:37) reunited to go on tour when they were replaying the episodes on (1:01:41) MTV. It reunited the interest and whatever.

So I did the monkey (1:01:45) tour. And that one tour was thanks. Thanks for enough.

Thanks (1:01:49) enough for that Jerry Renino story. But you know what, I did (1:01:53) almost every reunion tour. This is the this is the comment that (1:01:56) I made, where you bring a shovel full and you get a dump truck and (1:02:00) return, where I did every monkey tour.

I had to rehearse (1:02:04) for that first monkey tour. I lived in an apartment in (1:02:06) Manhattan, had to rehearse for that first monkey tour in a (1:02:09) studio music, a music school that rented their rooms up out (1:02:14) after hours called the collective music school in New(1:02:16) York City. And I coming out paying for my time.

The guy goes (1:02:21) what were you doing? The director of the school was taking (1:02:24) my money. What were you doing in that room? And I said, I’m going (1:02:27) on the road with the monkeys goes, Oh, man, that’s great, man. (1:02:30) You sound really good.

You ever think about teaching? And I (1:02:33) said, No, I never thought he goes, man. And I thought about (1:02:35) my mother said, I said, she used to say, if you ever want to (1:02:40) learn how to swim, jump in the deep end of a pool. So I hardly (1:02:44) knew how to read music.

And now I’m saying to myself, this guy (1:02:47) wants me to be a faculty member, a rock the right we need a rock (1:02:50) guy here. So I ended up and that started a 27 year teaching(1:02:54) career. Okay, so now I had my day gig.

Now I had my day gig to (1:02:59) keep the lights on or to help keep the lights on in my house,(1:03:03) you know, in between tours and records and whatever I was (1:03:05) teaching the instrument, which I became much better if you ever (1:03:08) want to do something very well teach somebody how to do it. And (1:03:12) I was doing that 20 hours a week at the maximum student load that (1:03:16) I had. It doesn’t end there, Matt, because in my involvement (1:03:21) with that drum straight, like, you know, because the drum (1:03:23) school, then that didn’t that lead to the to the videos, then? (1:03:27) Is that what? Well, that’s what I was gonna say from there.

Well, (1:03:30) what I was gonna say was being involved with the drummers (1:03:32) collective, I created a drum basics, VHS instructional drum (1:03:37) video, there was a lot of drum videos on the market that showed (1:03:41) a drummer doing a hotshot, technical, very highly (1:03:44) technical solo. And I said to myself, man, it might turn some (1:03:48) kids off, seeing like somebody doing an unbelievable solo. So I (1:03:52) created a video to teach drummers, the very basics of (1:03:56) drums.

And it’s, it’s called drum basics, Warner Brothers (1:03:59) picked up on it. And then Yamaha drum company picked up on it. (1:04:04) And they put the DVD of that drum basics in the box of every (1:04:08) new Yamaha drum set sold around the world.

So it like that (1:04:14) little that little effort of helping Jerry Renino out on that (1:04:19) tokens gig. And not only that, but I got the I got my first (1:04:23) royalty check exactly when I needed it. So it was like, it’s (1:04:28) unbelievable how things happen how unforeseen beyond our(1:04:34) limited immune human imagination.

unforeseen positive (1:04:40) things can happen from a little small little positive (1:04:44) engagement with somebody. Yeah, it’s all I mean, I wrote myself (1:04:48) a note here, you know, and what I think is interesting is, if (1:04:53) you hear a lot of people that are giving advice nowadays, you (1:04:55) know, they’re saying protect your time, say no more than you (1:04:58) say yes, you know, and it and it talks a lot about that. And, and (1:05:03) I’m not saying that your messages say yes to everything.

(1:05:05) But you said yes to some really simple things. And some what (1:05:10) things that that appeared uncomfortable to but you know, (1:05:13) there was something, something in your gut, something in your (1:05:16) spirit, you know, that told you, do it, right. And, right.

And (1:05:20) it’s like, it just continues to pay off in spades for you. So I (1:05:24) think that I think that that along with the, you know, keep (1:05:27) the message simple, repeat it often. Never let them see a (1:05:31) board and say yes, right? I mean, I say yes, is the is kind (1:05:38) of part of part of who you are.

(1:05:40) That’s the template. And yes, sometimes I say no, if I if I’m (1:05:44) not, if I’m physically not able to do what they ask, or if I’m (1:05:48) busy, or my schedule doesn’t permit me to do what I what they (1:05:52) asked, of course, I’m going to say no. But if, if I have the(1:05:54) ability, I don’t I don’t and I had the wherewithal and the (1:05:57) scheduling or whatever it has to do with.

And, and I don’t say no (1:06:01) for the for the sake of saying no, because I want to sit home(1:06:05) and you know what I mean? So when I have the ability to, I’m (1:06:11) flattered that I am in a position to make somebody’s (1:06:14) life better, or to do a favor for somebody, no matter how (1:06:19) insignificant it is, I do it. And you know what, I didn’t get (1:06:23) this from a book. I got it from around the dinner table when I (1:06:26) was growing up with my parents, my parents, you know, you asked (1:06:30) at the beginning, how did you develop that empathy default (1:06:33) empathy mindset? Well, it’s always been there.

It’s always (1:06:36) been there from the very, very beginning, very beginning of my (1:06:40) life. And I’ve always (1:06:41) for people who haven’t had that people who haven’t had that (1:06:44) exact upbringing, I think that you know, you are that little (1:06:48) bit of gasoline on their flame that that can help ignite that. (1:06:51) So I think you’re doing, you’re doing great work.

(1:06:54) So I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And you know, (1:06:57) yes, to be in here.

(1:06:59) Well, I am too, because it’s really, really good to get you (1:07:02) get to know you better. And, and, and I remember that (1:07:05) conversation we had in Detroit, or in Springfield. But But, you (1:07:10) know, I offered that if I offered that if things went, if (1:07:14) things went south for you there, I could I can manage a two, four (1:07:18) beat on the drums.

That’s about all I can do. (1:07:23) Well, I can teach you how to play the drums. It’s very, very(1:07:26) simple.

A lot of people think it’s apples and oranges with (1:07:29) different limbs and playing different rhythms with this (1:07:32) different limbs, but it’s not it’s playing different, different (1:07:36) parts of the same rhythm. And I can I if we had the time and the (1:07:41) wherewithal, I can bring you over to my studio, right here in (1:07:45) Nashville, we have two drum sets set up all the time. And I’ll (1:07:49) teach you anytime you’re in Nashville, Matt, you have an (1:07:51) open invitation to call me in advance, and come here, we can (1:07:55) bang away on the drum and put some headphones on and we’ll (1:07:58) rock out.

(1:08:00) Fantastic. And you’ve got to always a place to stay in the (1:08:02) Detroit area. If you if you come back here, we’ll, we’d love (1:08:06) to love to have you stay with us.

So awesome. Thanks for (1:08:09) everything. And Sandy does a really great job at the end of(1:08:13) his presentation with a with a basically a compilation of all (1:08:20) the a number of the famous songs that you’ve played on.

We want (1:08:25) to play that for everybody. Awesome. Outgoing video of (1:08:29) this.

So we’re going to clip that in here. And awesome. And (1:08:32) thank you, Sandy.

You’re very welcome. Appreciate you being a (1:08:36) part of this. I appreciate it, Matt.

Thank you so much. And I (1:08:39) want to give a shout out to Jackie who we were in (1:08:41) communication to get this together. And thank you, Jackie (1:08:44) for your all your input.

I appreciate it very much. Thank (1:08:47) you, Matt. I appreciate your time.