Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen. 

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in. 

Welcome back to another episode of the BLTNT (0:41) podcast, where we’re talking about business, life, technology, and transformations with (0:46) very interesting people. And to my immediate left here is Israel Hernandez, who is one of the (0:52) co-owners of Otis Harbor Springs. You got it right. 

A very interesting hotel experience, (0:58) newly renovated, taken over just about a year and a half or two years ago (1:04) to where they’ve done an amazing renovation and just made a really special place in northern (1:09) Michigan. And so for those of you who are watching our podcast, you know that we normally (1:13) shoot from our studio in Rochester, Michigan, but we’ve been on the road recently in northern (1:18) Michigan and talking to some really, really cool folks. And so here we are with Israel Hernandez. 

(1:23) Thank you, Matt. It’s nice to have you here at Otis. (1:25) Thank you very much. 

(1:26) I love the name too. It’s quite clever, by the way, of your podcast. (1:30) I love the name of your hotel. 

So we got some common things. Yeah. Thanks. 

Yeah. We usually (1:34) have our little BLT stuffed animal somewhere in between us, but, oh, there he is. He’s over there. 

(1:41) Do you ever offer BLTs to snack while you do a BLT session? (1:43) I’m not really a big bacon fan, to be honest. I’d be like a turkey bacon lettuce and tomato. (1:50) I’ll eat your bacon. 

(1:50) Okay. Nadine makes a really good vegan bacon out of mushrooms too. (1:57) Oh, great. 

Nice. (1:57) Yeah. Sometimes that, so it would be like the VBLTNT podcast that day or the TVLT. 

(2:04) So, but thank you. So I really want to kind of dig in here and talk about, (2:12) you know, the fact that you are originate from Texas and had a really, had a really cool career (2:20) so far from everywhere from, you know, from Texas to the West wing of the White House to then all(2:27) sudden finding yourself in, in, uh, Northern Michigan where there’s more trees that I could (2:33) ever imagine. You didn’t have that back home. 

No, I mean, growing up, I’m born in, in West Texas, (2:40) Southeast Texas. And my parents were, my dad’s an expert, uh, horseman. (2:47) Oh, no kidding. 

(2:47) So he breaks four quarter horses and he’s just amazing with horses. And so to, to grow up (2:56) in a region where there’s more cattle than people and there’s not a tree in sight, uh, to then move, (3:03) now live in Northern Michigan where it’s just a majestic, but the topography, the water, (3:09) the rolling hills is beautiful in its own way. But I also loved where I grew up. 

(3:15) Great. Um, I’m, I’m a newly found, um, expert in, in horses now that I watch Yellowstone. So (3:22) anything you need to know, you can, you can come back to me. 

Um, walk us through some, well, (3:27) actually let’s, let’s, let’s explain to folks here. Um, um, you and I’ve only recently met. (3:33) Correct. 

(3:33) Um, we met through, uh, through a couple of common friends, uh, in the Northern Michigan area and, (3:39) um, uh, Israel and Ty are co-owners, uh, with another set of partners as well who own, uh, (3:46) who own Otis. And so that was how we met. Um, but then all of a sudden we sat down on this very (3:51) couch and had a really great conversation. 

I said that we need to get you on a podcast and, and (3:55) have this thing for real. So we actually kind of cut our conversation short. So we don’t really (4:01) know a ton about each other. 

And, but there’s a few things that kind of came up and, and things (4:06) that I really enjoyed in our first conversation where you’re just, um, your ability to really (4:12) listen and, um, the, the depth at which you shared your own thoughts and experiences. And so that’s (4:20) why I wanted you to do this. And I’m so happy that you’ve, uh, agreed to. 

So will you, will you (4:26) tell us your story? Much of which I’ll be hearing for the first time.(4:29) Well, it’s rare because as I mentioned earlier, I don’t normally like to talk about myself. I(4:33) often find myself behind the scenes and let others really take the forefront about all the engagements (4:41) that I do. 

Uh, but it is an, I have had an amazing life and experience. And, (4:47) and if there’s any way that maybe my story could inspire a younger generation or someone who’s (4:53) thinking about really starting on a new adventure, uh, maybe this may be a moment or a realization (5:00) that they too can do it. That’s fantastic. 

That’s the T transformations and those risky moments. (5:06) Those that’s, uh, something we love to talk about with the BLT and T. So I went to a high school (5:12) where, as I mentioned, I feel there were more cattle than people. I mean, it’s a small little (5:18) town in Southwest Texas. 

What town was it? It’s in Maverick County, Maverick County, which is where (5:24) the word Maverick comes from because we had a rancher named Maverick who would not brand his(5:29) cattle and was thought of as poaching other people’s. And there was, that’s where the word (5:35) Maverick comes to be different than others. Um, so there’s always a lot of color in places you (5:41) grew up. 

That was kind of the beginning for me, but I did go to the university of Texas at Austin, (5:47) which I think now I was talking to someone who’s one of the regents at UT. I think they got a(5:54) hundred thousand applications for this coming year, which is an astounding number. And,(5:59) and I think back in my, could I ever have gotten in today because it’s so competitive, but(6:04) that said, I did go to UT, which was a transformational experience. 

I mean, I had, (6:12) there’s very few people where I grew up to go to a university that’s 50,000.(6:17) But I studied philosophy, which is probably not a normal degree for most people, but I loved it. (6:25) I loved it because it really made you question how you thought of things. 

It merely forced you (6:33) how to explain your way of thinking. You couldn’t just say, well, that’s how I’ve always felt, or (6:38) that’s how my family’s always felt. Our professors always made us put some real methodical thought as (6:45) to why is it that you think this way and really come through and creating your own set of very (6:51) methodical phrases as to how you come to that conclusion. 

Um, and so I, I love that. And in (6:58) many ways it, in that experience, it made me realize that there’s so much potential. And I (7:06) think maybe, I don’t know if it’s because I grew up in Texas where the sky is the limit, literally (7:11) the sky is so large and so blue, it just makes you feel like it’s endless. 

So the sense of (7:21) endless opportunity, I think was in parallel to, to my thinking. I mean, that’s just how I grew up. (7:27) Like everything was so big, everything was so grand, I think it kind of transformed into other (7:33) things that you could do things, big things, like why not? So I went to UT Austin, studied philosophy, (7:40) then I got into political science. 

Okay. And then I started reading more about history and even more (7:46) deeply about Texas history. And in the middle of my junior year, I decided I wanted to intern somewhere. 

(7:55) So I, right after class, I walked from University of Texas on Congress Avenue to the state Capitol. (8:03) I walked in, found the governor’s office, I walked in and said, I want to intern here,(8:10) not knowing that there’s this process and it’s difficult and not, and you can’t just walk in(8:16) there. The lady kind of chuckled and said, well, good for you, but you have to apply, you need (8:23) recommendations and, and you got to go through this process. 

And I said, listen, I don’t know (8:29) anybody. I’m from a small town, but I love history. And I now want, instead of reading about it, (8:36) I want to experience it. 

And I kept coming back every week until she finally said, (8:44) we’re going to give you, I said, I came back and I finally said, listen, you don’t even have to pay (8:48) me. I’ll do it for free. Just let me demonstrate to you that I can do something for you here. 

(8:55) So this was when, this is when Clements was governor, which is the first Republican governor (9:04) in Texas since reconstruction. And he was going through a special session and they were going (9:11) through a whole bunch of different issues. And there was a catacomb of the governor’s office (9:17) and the beautiful, the architecture of the Texas state Capitol is beautiful, but it has many floors (9:23) to it, including a basement where there’s a catacomb. 

A true catacomb is where the stone is, (9:33) you actually are exposed, I guess, maybe a Michigan basement where you walk in and you see (9:38) the stone. It’s not a finished room. There’s stone on the, on the ground, but there’s limestone from (9:44) actual building. 

It’s a little musky and it’s kind of dark. I guess it would be like a Michigan (9:51) basement in some ways. And they said, if you can do anything with these files, then we’ll give you (9:59) all the summer, the whole summer, if you can do something with this, then we’ll see about doing(10:04) an internship. 

So what was supposed to be maybe done in a summer, I did it in six weeks. I went (10:11) to the library. I researched the way they do their whole catalog. 

The Dewey Decimal System? (10:18) The Dewey Decimal System. Correct. Yeah. 

So then I went back, I looked at all the themes (10:24) and I created my own Dewey Decimal with the subject matters that were on the file. (10:29) You’re the only kid that in grade school, when they were teaching us that, and we all said, (10:33) well, what are we ever going to use this? You’re the one kid that did. (10:36) These were files and boxes and kind of exposed, and there was no rhyme or reason. 

(10:41) And I literally just took everything out, read through just top of page, got a sense of the(10:48) theme and just started putting them in order. And I finished in six weeks. I went back up and said, (10:54) I’m done. 

I want you to come take a look. And I created a binder, put all the catalogs, (11:01) I color coded every section so they could see it, not just by theme, but by color. (11:08) She was surprised that I actually, I got it done. 

And so I was allowed to intern (11:17) formally in the fall and I ended up being the governor, one of the governor’s interns, like (11:23) for him personally, not just for the governor’s office, but for the governor himself. (11:28) Almost assisting him directly. (11:30) Yeah. 

And it was an amazing experience because it exposed jobs, realms of subject matter (11:40) that I just never even knew existed. I mean, they don’t really teach you that in school. (11:45) It is the real behind the scenes of policy and politics. 

At that point, I kind of got hooked (11:52) and said, so I’m now fortunate enough to work for the governor of Texas as an intern while I’m also (11:58) going to school at UT, getting my philosophy degree. And said, rather than being part of it (12:08) when they’re in office, it’d be great to experience it when they’re running for office. I think in (12:14) many ways, I’ve always been very curious about the formulation of things as opposed to just (12:19) being in it and thought it would be great to experience a campaign leading up to this. 

(12:27) So I decided that when I would graduate, I would find someone that’s going to run for governor, (12:34) who I felt aligned with. And my parents told me growing up that when the news came on, (12:43) I would always just sit and watch the news glued to it for 30 minutes. (12:49) Because back then, they had the big TVs and you could do it by channels. 

And there were some, (12:53) at a certain time, you watch it. It’s not like today, you get 300 channels, (12:57) you can watch it every 30 minutes. Yeah, and 20 different streams. 

(13:00) And I was hooked on these themes and the news. And back then, it was George and Barbara Bush, (13:09) you know, both from Texas originally. I mean, they lived there for many years, (13:13) so they were, in many ways, from Texas. 

Huge fan of Herbert Bush and the president (13:20) and thought if there was news that at some point he would run for governor of Texas. (13:27) Who, at that point, he would run against a very hugely popular governor, Ann Richards, (13:33) who was amazing. So what years would this have been? (13:36) This was, oh God, I’m not gonna think this through. 

This was (13:39) 90, 92, 93, yeah, 92, 93, 93, 94, maybe around that time. And Texans love their governor because (13:52) they’ve always been very colorful and with a lot to say. And as you know, in history, (13:58) Ann Richards had a lot to say. 

And she also coined a lot of really kind of big terms like, (14:04) oh, George Bush was born with his silver spoon in his mouth, like that term that everyone has (14:10) remembered for years. So for the son to possibly run against her was of epic magnitude, just for (14:20) the history of the Bush family and Ann Richards herself. I mean, hugely popular. 

She just had a (14:26) great connection throughout the state. And so I decided I would reach out to his office. (14:35) And at that point, he wasn’t running for office. 

He was the managing general partner of the Texas (14:41) Rangers. And so he had an office in Dallas. They were building a new ballpark in Arlington, Texas. 

(14:49) And I had met a few people in politics that I was trying to figure out if I could reach out(14:56) them for an introduction. And back then, there were these things called fax machines, where you (15:03) could send a fax to someone, which today is so odd for people. Oftentimes, I’m so surprised, (15:10) like you see a fax machine in a people’s address, and I’m like, who has a fax machine these days? (15:15) Yeah, doctors. 

(15:16) Okay. Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Doctors. 

But when you’re in business, I don’t think of it. (15:21) Right. We never had them, ever. 

(15:22) No. So anyway, I thought, all right, I’m going to fax him. And so I faxed him almost every other day. 

(15:34) Dear George W. Bush, here’s the history. This is who I am. I would love to meet you. 

If there’s (15:42) ever a moment, can we have an introduction? And I would call and fax. And about over a month (15:51) into this, I got a call and he said, stop faxing. We got your number. 

We have exactly why you want (15:58) to meet him. And I said, I don’t care if it’s five minutes, I would love to meet this man. (16:03) So I finally got a date. 

(16:05) Can I interrupt you for a second? Go back in your childhood for a second here and tell me, (16:11) where did this persistence piece kind of come out of you? It’s like, this is now repeated twice, (16:19) where you had no qualms about going out and saying, hey, well, very honestly, in the first (16:27) one, I don’t know anything I want to learn. In the next one, it’s like, hey, I’ve got a couple (16:31) of qualifications here. I want to meet them and see if I can offer value. 

Where did you get this (16:37) chutzpah or whatever to do that? (16:39) Maybe it’s my parents. We had a ranch growing up and I had to, after school, (16:46) most people maybe went and had fun or did things, I would have to go to the ranch (16:49) and help my dad. And always there, he just taught me a lot. 

Every time I tried to do something, (17:00) I wouldn’t do it right the first time, or mending the fences, or helping with the cattle, (17:06) or just with the horses. And he just said, you just got to keep trying and you’re going to get (17:13) it. And I think just those moments, I realized that you just have to keep going for it. 

You (17:18) just have to keep trying. I think time with my dad made me experience a lot of setbacks. (17:24) I just didn’t know how to do it. 

And certainly not as good as he did it. But in time, I did get (17:31) good at it. And I think there is something to be said about kids having tasks to do and having (17:40) hands-on. 

I find it so interesting today that people obviously love their kids and they want (17:47) to create a better life for them, but they don’t give them things to do, which those kids that I (17:53) think gain value of. Well, it allows them to fail. It allows them to learn. 

(17:58) You got to let them fail. You got to let them figure out how to do things. They have to do(18:02) things that are tactile, not just rewarding them for throwing the trash out. 

I mean, (18:06) they got to participate. And I had to participate at a young age. And I think that really was, (18:11) for me, a way to learn that you just keep at it. 

You just keep doing it. (18:17) Milking cows, feeding the cows, mending the fences, roping a horse. It’s just all that stuff. 

(18:27) I guess I’ve never thought about it, but it’s just normal to me because that’s just what I had (18:32) to do. That’s kind of how it was for me. I mean, growing up, and I don’t even know what the first (18:36) inspiration was. 

I mean, I knew when we had an Apple 2GS, I was making signs saying, (18:43) making up a company name and saying Dolphin Car Cleaning Service. And I’d be bringing it around (18:47) all the neighbors and saying, this is me. This is my company. 

And this is what I do. And I’m eight (18:54) years old. And then I got a paper route. 

And then my dad had a boat hardware store. And I just wanted (19:03) to learn everything and always be working and doing. And so I think there’s some of that mindset (19:11) of watching someone. 

I definitely watched my dad work hard. And you watched your dad work hard (19:18) and wanted to kind of be in it. I mean, I remember having to go after school, (19:26) or even on weekends, I had to wake up early. 

I couldn’t sleep in. I had to go work. And (19:32) sometimes I just dreaded it. 

I hated it. I hated it. My mom tells me today, she goes every time, (19:39) because my mom would bring us lunch. 

And we would not go home. My dad would not let us leave the (19:45) ranch until the sun was down. We were there all day. 

Was the ranch away from your home? (19:51) Yeah, we had to drive out. It was a little further out. But just as a young kid to think (19:57) that you had to get up early and you’re there all day. 

And you can’t go home until it’s dark. (20:05) As a kid, you just hate that stuff. But there’s a lot that I learned along the way. 

(20:10) That’s amazing. So back to our timeline. That was great. 

Thanks for indulging me on that. (20:18) Back to the timeline with getting in with George Bush.(20:21) So I finally got a date to meet him. 

And I went the day before, (20:29) so I could figure out how to get to that office. And I showed up an hour early to my appointment. (20:38) And he, if you know his personality, is always very early. 

Never on time. He’s always early. (20:45) Oh, okay. 

I did not know that. (20:48) And so for me to have shown up an hour early before the doors were even open, (20:53) and then finally go up and say, well, who are you here to see? I’m like, well, I’m here to see you. (20:59) And he’s like, well, what time are we supposed to meet? And I said, oh, we got another hour. 

(21:05) Do what you have to do. I’m just very excited to be here. (21:09) Did that hit it off with him though? (21:11) Yeah. 

So he went in and had some… So I remember sitting in the lobby of his office (21:17) where I had an angle view of where he was. And his view was a beautiful view of Dallas, Texas, (21:27) with lots of trees and it was very green. And he was on a phone call and he had this… (21:33) He was on the phone looking out and he had a side profile and he had this look like his father. 

(21:41) A side profile. And first time I was really taken aback. And it’s like, wow, I’m meeting the son (21:51) of a president. 

Not oftentimes someone, maybe even from West Texas, Southwest Texas, (21:59) would you have an opportunity to do that? I mean, there’s many corners of the country where you’re(22:03) like, I would love to meet a president or the son of the president or the wife of a president (22:08) or the president. And he looked like him. So that for me was like… (22:14) That’s interesting that you’re saying that because I remember back then the way that the media at (22:20) that time was portraying him as a buffoon in many ways. 

And regardless of what media source you’re (22:31) sourcing from, they’re always painting the other side to be just this total buffoon. (22:36) Right. And to hear you talk about that and say, he’s early. 

And that doesn’t coincide, (22:44) that right there doesn’t coincide with the lovable loser sort of picture that they painted (22:52) during plenty of time. So it was, again, another transformational moment because (23:00) a five-minute photo op interview turned into an hour and a half and I left with a job. (23:08) That’s great. 

(23:09) It’s my first job out of college in a way that was a real job, not just these little side jobs(23:17) or things, but a real job. And he was at that point, the managing general partner of the Texas (23:23) Rangers and really got to meet a lot of his friends and the other owners. And over time, (23:30) what I got to see is he has the same friends that he had even before I knew him that he still has (23:39) today. 

It’s the same group of friends. And there is something to be said about people who have (23:45) and maintained a friendship with a group 40, 50 years. (23:50) Yeah. 

That’s funny. I was just at an event the other night and I sat down on a couch just like (23:58) no, not just like this. I sat down on a sofa, but it was not like this. 

And we’re going to talk (24:04) about this particular sofa with Ty when we do an interview with him, but because this is a special (24:11) sofa, but I’m sitting with these two gentlemen. I said, how do you, you know, what brought you (24:16) guys here? He says, well, we’re friends with John. How do you know John? I’m thinking that (24:21) they’re going to say, you know, we met him a couple of months ago or something. 

And (24:24) we’ve been friends since third grade. And these guys, these guys are, you know, 65, (24:29) 70 years old. And I’m like, that is so cool. 

Wow. That is so cool. That, I mean, (24:33) right there. 

How rare to have that moment. Absolutely. Well, and it, what it did for me (24:38) with, with John, because I don’t, I don’t know him that well, I’ve only met him in the last (24:44) year. 

So, you know, he’s still in the question mark category, you know, not, not anything bad, (24:49) but I mean, I certainly haven’t cemented my full relationship with this person and, (24:54) and, you know, really know what he’s all about and stuff, heard some good things. (24:57) And, uh, I was like, man, that is a right there. That, that checks some really good boxes there. 

(25:03) You know, to know that, that two other human beings want to pal around with you,(25:06) you know, for 60 something years, really remarkable. So, so it says a lot about, (25:12) about George Bush there too, right. Yeah. 

So it was, it was a fun moment. I mean, (25:16) he was the owner of a baseball team. He loved baseball. 

He talked about the trades all the time. (25:23) And I, at that point I would travel with him to all these little towns in, in, in Texas, (25:29) where he would promote and say, you know, we go to Paris, Texas. And he’d say, you have to bring (25:35) your teacher of the year, your policeman of the year, your first responder of the year, or just (25:41) your, your best students. 

And we’ll put them in a box and we’ll make it Paris, (25:47) Texas day at the ballpark. And we’ll have firecrackers and, and we’ll have, they can tour (25:52) the, they can come to batting practice. We’ll tour the stadium. 

You can watch for a game. (25:56) And he kind of just went to all these little towns to promote and link those towns to (26:03) the Texas Rangers baseball team. Love it. 

So we traveled in his car. I would drive. (26:10) He would take his notes and he would get ready for a lunch or, you know, a rotary meeting or (26:17) just a town hall meeting. 

And he would talk to everyone. And that’s kind of maybe the beginning (26:23) of him thinking about running for governor of Texas. And everywhere we went, they’re like, (26:30) oh, you’ll, you can never beat her. 

She is tough, funny, charismatic. People love her. (26:38) But, you know, he, he wanted to give it a try. 

So we started having these little (26:44) dinner parties to talk through about some of the biggest policy issues that he really wanted to (26:50) focus on. And he then decided that he was going to run. So I was his aid when he was going through (26:59) his first campaign. 

Then he won. So then we, I was back in Austin and I was working for him (27:10) when he was governor. I’ve been hearing a lot lately about the knock when an employee (27:14) knocks on your office door and says, got a minute? And you immediately know it’s some (27:17) sort of it incident, but Oxium IT can help whether you’re having a problem need consulting (27:23) an upgrade or a managed IT approach. 

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(27:42) So this is something I wanted to ask is, is, is this, is that kind of standard operating(27:47) procedure in that world? That if you’re part of the team that helps get elect, get the person (27:51) elected, but then you stay on for, not everybody, not everyone. Uh, I think there’s an opportunity. (27:57) Okay. 

Um, cause not always those skills don’t always translate. Right. Right. 

And, (28:03) but I was also quite young. So I, I feel like I, plus I was his aid during the campaign. So I knew (28:10) all the County, um, political leadership. 

I knew all of his friends. I knew his family. (28:18) So it was easy for him to work and I could handle a lot of the logistical things as far as (28:26) getting in touch with the right people. 

He didn’t have to explain things to me. (28:29) I heard you have that mind of like, do you, do you memorize names pretty easily? (28:32) He has an astute memory of names, which still today I’m astonished. He just remembers people (28:42) and he’ll remember when he met them, where he met them. 

Wow. And I’m trying to figure out what I (28:49) had for lunch last week. Um, no, but he has an amazing skill in that way. 

He, he, and he actually (28:57) is a very much a genuinely a people person. When you’re with him, you, you get the sense that he’s (29:04) only talking to you. Sure. 

He does not get distracted by who else is in the room. And, uh, (29:10) you know, I learned a lot with everyone that I worked with. I mean, not just with him, but (29:17) when I was with Jim Coulter, David Bonderman at TPG, um, at SoftBank, I mean, I’ve worked with (29:24) some very big personalities and I’ve learned a lot along the way. 

What would you, what would (29:30) you say was the main thing that you learned from Bush? He’s incredibly disciplined. I mean, (29:38) he is, he doesn’t drink. He’s very healthy. 

He’s very engaged with people. He studies subject (29:47) manner. He’s really amazing in smaller settings because you can have that conversation and (29:56) engagement. 

I think in larger crowds, he has fun. Sometimes we’ll say the wrong word, but he’s quite (30:04) smart and he’s very aware. And I remember being in many meetings and hearing him ask that one (30:11) question to experts who are experts in their respective fields and where they kind of like (30:18) took a step back and said, I don’t really know that I can answer that right now. 

I’d have to (30:23) get back to you. There were many times where I, I experienced that. So, you know, I chuckle and (30:29) it’s also part of, it is what it is, for them to make him sound like he doesn’t know what he’s (30:37) talking about or he has no, he’s no curiosity, but he does, he does. 

He’s actually quite smart. (30:45) Interesting. He just is also very outgoing and funny and gregarious and likes to joke a lot. 

(30:51) Yep. And so I think those parts come out as well. That’s great. 

But anyway, so I’ve had an amazing (30:57) run with, with the president. I, he ran for governor. I was, I was there. 

He went, became (31:05) governor. I was part of his governor’s office. I left, I went and got my undergrad at the (31:12) George Bush School of Public Policy Administration. 

So I got my master’s in policy and business. (31:18) Okay. And then I came back because he decided he was going to run for president and said, (31:24) I’m going to do it. 

Do you want to be a part of it? And I said, I’d love to. I mean, I’ve never (31:31) been part of a presidential campaign. And so I was driving back because the office at that point (31:39) was with, at Karl Rove’s office, who is by the way, a genius. 

Okay. An amazing, another person (31:45) I worked with that is in a league of his own. What was his, what was his position at the time? (31:54) He was an advisor to the campaign and then really helped run the, strategically helped run the (32:01) campaign when he was, when the president was running for governor and then also when he ran (32:06) for president. 

Okay. And I was just very lucky enough to work for Karl as a deputy in the (32:13) presidential campaign on the strategic side. So it was like voter engagement, voter contact, (32:19) the narrative for the ads, the little pamphlets that went out to people in the mail, (32:27) just working with Karl was amazing. 

I mean, the guy, his retention of history and his knowledge of (32:38) voting trends at the county level, in any county in the country, if you ask him, (32:45) how many countries are in, how many counties are in Iowa? He’ll say there’s 99. What are the top (32:51) five? He’ll spell it out. Which are the swing districts? He’ll tell you. 

I mean, and the (32:55) history that he knows of the engagement in those counties is mind blowing. Truly, truly mind (33:02) blowing. It was amazing and amazing to see and quite phenomenal. 

But yeah, so I, it was great (33:10) because the campaign office was there. I remember- The campaign office was in Dallas? (33:15) Karl Rove’s office in the early, early, before he- In Dallas?(33:19) In Austin. In Austin. 

Okay. So you’re still at home, hadn’t moved to Washington? (33:23) Nope. Yeah, I’m still there. 

And then the, so yeah, so then the Chad thing happened and that (33:30) was a very pivotal moment in American history. The hanging Chad. (33:34) Hanging Chad’s of Florida, which by the way, I never got to go to Florida because I stayed (33:39) behind with him on things that he was doing, like having meetings with different people. 

He was (33:46) hosting people in the governor’s office. And for those that don’t remember, I mean, (33:50) it was truly in the balance. We didn’t know if he was going to be the president or not. 

(33:54) But he decided that, I think both campaigns just started moving forward as if they were-(34:01) As if both were in parallel? Or as- I don’t know exactly everything (34:05) the other campaign was doing, but we were, he at that point was in the elect phase. (34:11) So we started meeting with business leaders. Okay. 

So you were acting as- (34:17) Getting ready. Getting ready as if it would happen. I mean, because if it did happen, (34:21) you really had to be ready. 

Because you would have been behind. (34:26) So at that point, I remember January 20th and I remember my first entrance to the West Wing (34:35) because following him when confirmed that he was going to win, would take the presidency. (34:43) Everyone then got a call as to like, what would you like to do? What can you do? (34:47) What we think you should do? And I was fortunate enough that I got to be a deputy for Carl (34:54) and the president and working in the West Wing, which by the way, I think only 30 people get to (35:00) office in the West Wing. 

So it’s quite an amazing- So 30 people plus 30 aides roughly, or- (35:07) No, it’s 30 people, maybe people in total, including the, you know, you have the vice (35:12) president, his staff, the chief of staff, the national security advisor, their deputies. (35:22) So anyway, it was quite an amazing group. And then the whole staff of the president was (35:29) also within the grounds of the White House, but not in the West Wing. 

(35:32) But I remember walking through the gates of the West Wing and just having chills and(35:41) a sense of paranoia. I was thinking, okay, there is no manual. Nobody’s going to be here to tell me (35:51) how to do this. 

The volume of information now that’s needed in a very short amount of time (35:58) is condensed. I was, how am I going to do this? Like, am I even qualified to do this? I mean, (36:07) that was my own question to myself. I knew what he would need. 

He’s very demanding. (36:15) He expects you to be completely prepared. How do you transition and find ways so that (36:23) you say, okay, if I only have five minutes with the president, I need to say, how can I get my (36:30) point across in five minutes so that he captures the gravity of the issue? He understands that we (36:37) know what the issue is. 

And so I kind of created my own format to say, all right, here’s the purpose (36:43) of me reaching out, like talking to you. This is the issue. Here are three options that I thought (36:49) I think are the best options. 

This is one I recommend. This is the upside of it. Here’s (36:55) the downside of it. 

And if you want more information, I’m happy to give it to you. (37:00) But I always felt that you have to really be prepared because it’s not always, you don’t (37:08) always get the time. Well, and I think that what translates here into the rest of the business (37:15) world, right, is that when you’re working for someone, you didn’t bring him the problems. 

(37:22) You identified the problem, researched solutions, and then brought him solutions and(37:30) enough of a briefing on it so that he could capture the gravity of the situation. (37:35) One of the things that we struggle with in our industry, our industry is (37:40) IT solutions and also cybersecurity. And right now, I’m authoring a blog about cybersecurity (37:47) and the overuse of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the marketing tactics. 

And because everyone (37:55) in the world of cybersecurity is, you know, well, you’re going to go out of business if you don’t (37:59) and all of these fear tactics. And the problem is that the CEOs and the leaders, they’re numb to it (38:07) now. They’re not listening to it at all. 

And no one’s bringing them the real meat of the situation (38:13) with simple, effective solutions, right? And I also think in cybersecurity, I think (38:20) we’re now in a phase of the world, it’s not if you will ever get hacked, it’s when would you get (38:28) hacked? Because we’ve now experienced so many experiences and have heard about so many different (38:34) hacking moments in the banking industry, in the app world, in the payment systems, (38:40) in just so many different ways that, you know, it will happen. It’s just how are you prepared (38:47) to handle it? What is your response to it? How are you going to deal with it? (38:51) Well, that’s exactly right. I mean, and I know with your background in risk and regulatory (38:55) work, you know, that you understand that. 

I was sitting down with the CEO of one of our (39:01) client organizations just a couple weeks ago. And he said, look, I recognize that the job (39:11) of the IT and cybersecurity team is to obviously prevent as much as you can, (39:16) but to make sure that we’re answering questions authentically for our insurance company. Because (39:23) when it does happen, and we’ve checked, yes, we have all these security features. 

And if we don’t, (39:29) and we’re lying, you know, even inadvertently, you know, misrepresenting, our insurance won’t (39:34) cover it. We know that we will get hit at a certain point in time. We know what our response (39:39) is, how we’re going to deal with it. 

But we also know that we want the insurance to pay for it. (39:44) So we want to make sure of that. And so everything in life really is a risk reward (39:54) type of situation, right? And so obviously overinvestment could reach you to a point of (40:00) diminishing returns, but underinvestment just leaves you completely naked. 

And where I’m going (40:07) with this in our discussion, though, is that the ability to communicate clearly to your leadership (40:16) of here’s a problem we have to deal with. Here’s three options. Here’s my recommended one. 

And then (40:21) every one of them has pluses and minuses. There’s no golden win every single time, right? That says, (40:27) oh, we’re 100% perfect with this. It’s like, no, we think, you know, with our best judgment, (40:33) with all of our research, this is where we go. 

So I love that you learned that in this part of (40:39) your career, right, of how do you articulate issues and solutions to leadership. And I think over time (40:48) there’s a lot of things that I’ve learned about myself that maybe have helped me in the future (40:56) of everything that I do, such that, you know, sometimes you’re put in these situations. I mean, (41:03) the volume of information, how it will impact so many people is something that’s very sobering. 

(41:12) I took it very seriously. I worked so hard to get as much information, find the right experts, (41:19) have them be participants in this process, and just work through crises or prevent crises. (41:28) But the volume and the impact was so great that, you know, some people I think may not be able to (41:34) handle that kind of level of scrutiny and unforgiving schedule. 

And I think I’ve learned (41:43) for me that I’m very calm, but also these situations bring out who you truly are. (41:51) Sure. (41:52) Whether you can handle it or not. 

(41:54) And that’s kind of like drinking, right? I mean, how you act when you’re drinking is really what’s (41:58) going on in your mind, right? If you turn into a jerk when you’re drinking, it’s typically that, (42:02) but also when under pressure, you know, really you’re, you know, if you have core values, (42:10) they come out then. If you don’t have core values or scruples or whatever it may be, (42:14) then they don’t, right? (42:16) I mean, for me, I don’t get to keep these jobs because they like me. There’s just too much at (42:23) stake. 

And I think what I loved is I was afforded a platform to continue to demonstrate what I was(42:29) able to do. And what I learned along the way is I didn’t limit myself. I allowed myself to get into (42:37) these very uncomfortable situations and just figure it out and know that all I’m going to do (42:45) is offer the best that I can and not put limits to myself. 

And there was no book on how to do things. (43:01) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed (43:07) to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, automate your network with Juniper Networks and (43:12) the Mist AI platform, the world’s first AI driven wired and wireless network. 

(43:25) Do you feel like that, that, that there was something with you there? I mean, what I’m,(43:29) this is what I’m sensing. You tell me if you think you had it at that time, (43:34) was there a confidence inside you that just allowed you to be authentic that, that, (43:39) because you knew you were doing your best, that, that that was enough, like, you know, (43:43) I don’t want to go like too, too deep on you here, but like, that’s what I’m sensing. (43:49) Is that what was going on? I think again, to go back to my parents. 

(43:55) Yeah. I feel that. Yeah. 

I mean, are there moments where I feel very (44:02) nervous or do I get scared about something? Yeah. I think that’s part of this. That’s part (44:07) of the process. 

Sure. But I don’t let that get in the way of experiencing something that I feel (44:13) like I can demonstrate what I can do. I’m always curious about showing its potential, whether (44:20) it’s me or even this hotel. 

You know, one of the dreams of owning a hotel was to provide a place (44:27) where people can come have these beautiful experiences and demonstrate its potential. (44:32) And so I’ve always been about potential. I’ve always been curious about how do we create (44:38) the best we can with what we have and demonstrate what’s possible. 

And so the president really (44:46) allowed me to demonstrate what I could do. And what I love about it is I got promoted (44:53) because I was able to handle the volume and the intensity and the personalities. (44:58) And I figured out that I’m not going to limit myself. 

And I love being with people. And I (45:05) love unraveling complexity. One of my biggest passion points is how to unravel complexity (45:12) and make it simple for everyone else. 

That’s what I’ve done my entire life. (45:17) Love it. Whether it’s been this hotel or when I ran a trade agency or when I was in all these (45:25) different positions working with very strong and well-known personalities, I don’t let the (45:33) scariness, I don’t get scared by the moment. 

I kind of really embrace it. It’s uncomfortable. (45:41) But I like how you said it is that the anxiety or the nervousness is just part of the process. 

(45:46) And if you let that stop you, it’s not going to let you get to the prize at the end, which is(45:51) solving the problem or helping the person or whatever the task at hand is. (45:57) Correct. (45:59) So were you then in the White House during 9-11? (46:03) I was, yeah. 

(46:05) So I’m fumbling here a little bit with my iPad here because I’m looking to see, (46:12) there was a gentleman, I believe he was a major, and he does a program, a speaking program,(46:20) where he talks about the hours in the bunker, basically, and all of the decisions that were(46:27) made at that time. Were you involved? And were you rushed out of the West Wing?(46:34) Yeah, so I was. (46:35) He talks about that. 

I’m trying to look up his name. I’m sorry, I’ll find it in just a second (46:41) here, but I forgot his name. It was just an amazing presentation. 

And he’s got a program (46:48) that he does. And I will share it in the notes of our podcast here so that the viewers can see (46:54) what you went through that day. (46:56) Yeah, that was quite a moment. 

I mean, we all can remember where we were on 9-11. (47:04) If you’re old enough, you could remember that. I happened to be in my office in the West Wing, (47:10) it’s the second floor, watching the first plane hit, looking at the TV. 

And then all of a sudden, (47:21) having a Secret Service agent come up to the second floor and said, (47:29) in the count of 10, when I say one, you’re going to run out of the second floor,(47:38) take your shoes off. (47:39) Ladies, take off your shoes. (47:41) He says that in the presentation. 

(47:43) I remember this. (47:44) Lieutenant Colonel Robert Darling. Have you heard of him?(47:47) I would have to maybe see his face because I remember all the faces. 

(47:50) So there’s his face. I mean, obviously, it’s… (47:55) He’s the top one there. (47:57) Okay. 

(47:58) I’ll send this to you because you’ll probably… There’s certain things that obviously…(48:04) Yeah, I mean, so he told whoever that person was, (48:08) was, had a machine gun. I mean, was really prepared for military form and said… (48:16) That wasn’t him. He wasn’t carrying the gun. 

He was the logistics manager of that day. So he had (48:22) to figure out… He was the logistics person taking care of getting Air Force One, the stuff shipped (48:28) ahead of time, the people shipped ahead of time, and then bringing Bush in at certain times, (48:33) et cetera, but in the West Wing. (48:36) Yeah. 

So no, and so they said, ladies, take your shoes off. Don’t bring backpacks. Don’t (48:44) bring anything. 

We’re going to open the gates of the White House, which it’s unheard of, (48:49) to open the gates of the White House. And the outside perimeter fence, which is never open (48:56) unless there’s a car coming in, like a visiting president or prime minister, where they bring (49:01) that’s how they drive him in. And then they welcome and they get greeted by the president. 

(49:06) That’s never been open. And so they’re like, we’re going to open the gates. You’re not even (49:12) going to look back. 

You’re just going to run. You’re going to run out of the White House, (49:15) and you’re just going to go. And it was a very sober moment because he did the countdown. 

(49:23) And when he got to one, he yelled as if we were in the military. He’s like, run, run, run, run. And (49:30) we literally were running and everybody was in shock that we were at that moment. 

(49:37) And then the plane hit the Pentagon, which if you’re in Washington, you could hear it and then (49:46) see the smoke of what was happening. And the whole city was in shock. People were trying to get out, (49:57) cars, traffic, people in the streets everywhere. 

Nobody knew where to go. (50:03) There was a group of us from the White House that ended up going to a friend’s office that was close (50:09) by. And we then, once we heard that the president was coming back, we came back that night and (50:20) walking through the streets of Washington on the day of that moment where it was cars left behind. 

(50:31) No planes in the air. (50:32) No rhyme or reason to how the cars were on the streets. Military now ever present because of (50:38) the White House. 

You could hear a pin drop in the streets of Washington, DC. And never have I ever (50:47) experienced such an eerie moment in our nation’s capital. It was so still, you could hear nothing(50:56) but a pin if it ever fell. 

And we came back to the White House because then he was coming back (51:05) to address the nation. Life changed for everyone. But when you are actually working in the White (51:13) House, you ask yourself, this could happen again. 

We are a target. When could this happen? (51:22) Yeah, feeling very vulnerable. (51:24) All of a sudden, the next day, that reality set in of the unknown, like, this could happen. 

(51:33) And it was hard to… (51:37) Just to walk back in that building? (51:38) And try to help when you yourself were going through so much anxiety. (51:44) And being maybe exposed as a potential target. Not that it would be us, of course it’d be the, (51:50) I mean, they were going after the president, but anyone who was there. 

I mean, the fact that (51:54) the Capitol and the White House were targets, aside from the Pentagon, the unknown. What if (52:02) someone came through the subway? What if there was a car that passed by and exploded? You just (52:07) didn’t know. And when you’re that young in age, and I was fortunate enough to be there in my 20s, (52:15) I think it’s scary for anyone. 

(52:17) Oh, yeah. I was supposed to be at the World Trade Center that day. And my boss changed plans for me (52:26) a day and a half before, two days before, and said, no, we’re sending somebody else. 

(52:31) The weird part is I had taken my family to New York the weekend. They came from Texas.(52:39) We went to New York the week before. 

We went to the top of the World Trade Center, (52:45) and we have still the receipt from the coffee shop where we bought coffee the week before. (52:51) Oh, my gosh. (52:52) It’s crazy. 

And after that happened, you couldn’t call anyone. So my parents were calling (53:04) everybody. My family was calling me. 

Nobody knew. I did, sadly, have a friend who, (53:11) she worked with me at the White House, and her brother worked at the World Trade Center. (53:15) And her parents were overseas because he had to go for a business trip, and she went with him. 

(53:22) So I can’t even imagine how they felt with their two kids and two targets at that moment in time. (53:31) But sadly, there’s people that didn’t make it. (53:35) Sure. 

(53:38) So how long was Bush in office? Was he- (53:42) Eight years, two terms. (53:43) It was two terms, right? Okay. And so after you left the White House, (53:50) where did you, what did you go on to do from a work standpoint? (53:54) So actually, the President nominated me to run an agency at Commerce. 

(53:59) Oh, okay. (54:00) And so I got confirmed by the Senate and ran a trade office in the ITA agency within the (54:07) Department of Commerce. I did that for four years. 

(54:09) Got it. (54:10) And then when the President of Commerce- (54:13) Learned a thing or two about tariffs and trade and whatnot? (54:16) Yeah, I mean, all the bilateral trade agreements, all the different technical (54:23) sectors, and all the things you have to think about with engagement. (54:28) But it is such a robust engagement that the U.S. has with many countries,(54:34) whether it’s an economic engagement, or an investment engagement, (54:37) or just certain sector engagements. 

There’s just a lot of work that has to get done. (54:43) So to run an agency of people that are experts in their field, and honestly, (54:49) you have to imagine all the sectors that exist. (54:52) You have to be versed in those from a technical standpoint. 

(54:57) It was an amazing group of experts. (55:00) But I mean, the interesting thing is all of the different aspects of your career (55:06) really seem to build upon each other. That whole level of research that you put into things, (55:12) the detail level of things, this is probably, (55:15) although it was something brand new, it was old hat in a way. 

(55:19) Oh, yeah. (55:19) It’s still your, you almost found your own methodology to things of how you research, (55:25) how you dig in, how you prepare yourself for the task. (55:30) Correct. 

(55:31) So Bush goes out, Obama comes in. (55:34) I help with the transition. (55:35) It was a lot of things that the volume of things, the deadlines that are approaching, (55:41) just educating them. 

(55:43) At the end of the day, my personal feeling is we’re here to help the business community(55:48) as much as possible, make it clear how they can engage globally and make it easier for them, (55:54) not only to protect their investment, but to protect their property, their ideas.(55:59) So all of this, I think, is important no matter who is in office. (56:03) But once that was over, I decided I want to go as far away from Washington and get as far (56:12) as I can from politics. 

So I moved to San Francisco and got a job with a boutique (56:23) communications firm called Brunswick. It’s based out of London. (56:26) But then went to go work at TBG with the founders of TBG, Jim Coulter and David Bonerman. 

(56:34) For people who don’t know what TBG is, can you explain what kind of firm it is? (56:38) I would just say, and David Bonerman, who sadly just more recently passed away, but he was a(56:44) titan and an amazing, both Jim and David are leaders in a new sector that has evolved,(56:52) which is called private equity. But TBG formerly was called Texas Pacific Group, (56:58) and Jim and David were working for one of the Bass brothers and decided they wanted to go out (57:07) and do some big investments, maybe not at the comfort level of the family that they’re working (57:13) for, and decided to venture out and create their own organization. And one of the first (57:21) acquisitions was Conano Airlines. 

And it’s actually well documented. David would go on (57:26) these flights and look and taste the food, see how it worked, go through the logistics. (57:32) And he’s famed for one day, grabbing his lunch, which he thought was terrible, putting it in a (57:40) FedEx packet, and he shipped it to the CEO of Conano and saying, how could anyone eat this? (57:48) As just a very demonstrating how hands-on they were. 

And there was a lot that I learned in my (57:55) years. Jim Coulter and David Bonerman, I found to be titans, and they have built something that’s (58:04) going to last beyond their lifetime. And it’s quite remarkable. 

And as I mentioned to Jim (58:12) more recently, very few people reach those heights where you are a titan and you build (58:20) out a sector and the founders of that sector are still alive. And it’s from KKR and TPG and so many (58:33) Carlyle. Can you give somebody who might not know what that evolution looked like for private equity? (58:41) Can you talk about that? Just the Cliff Notes version of that for somebody who’s… I know (58:48) you and I had a little bit of this conversation the other day. 

I would love for other people to (58:53) hear it as well. Yeah, like Thomas Lee. And there’s now some very well-known names within (59:00) Travis, within KKR and Carlyle and TPG are just some of the entities that grew out of family (59:09) offices and built out what is known as the private sector. 

(59:13) So explain how that happened though. There was family offices that then… (59:17) So family offices have always been… I mean, it kind of was this evolution where people were(59:22) helping family offices make investments and that really helped grow the value of the wealth of (59:29) these families. But they had enough capital to really be the ones to drive some of the big (59:33) innovations that were taking place at that time. 

And over time, (59:39) there was this way of trying to do equity, private equity, but maybe not at the comfort (59:44) of some of these families. And you have this evolution of the private equity industry. (59:50) And the private equity guys basically aggregated bundles of money from different family offices. 

(59:57) And then essentially… They would create funds and then these funds (59:59) would invest in very large scale acquisitions and mostly companies that were later stage (1:00:05) and would either take them private and bring them back and go public. And they’d keep them(1:00:11) for a longer period of time, which is now a very well-known form of industry in the private equity (1:00:18) world. But again, the discipline that I learned that Jim Coulter has and watching him at work and (1:00:29) he spent hours, hours looking at investments and asking just those really hard, tough questions (1:00:38) and being able to defend that analysis. 

I mean, I learned so much about (1:00:45) business and investing and just how to engage with people. Jim was also very, very (1:00:55) dedicated to his family. I mean, I was always impressed. 

As many hours as he worked, he just (1:01:03) really tried to spend, dedicate time for his family. And it’s hard when your name is now (1:01:12) a global brand and you were investing and the investors need the assurance that you’re really (1:01:18) on top of this, the engagement you have to do with them, the constant monitoring of these (1:01:24) investments, just so much. And yet he, his time, he was just always more interested in his family. 

(1:01:34) What did that teach you though? I mean, and how did, how have you, (1:01:37) how have you emulated that in your own behaviors with your family? (1:01:41) Some people may call it as micromanaging, but really David and Jim felt like in order to really (1:01:49) know the business, you have to be in it. And, you know, the industry also created some of these (1:01:58) spinoffs of like creating operating executives so they could run these companies. But that meant you(1:02:05) really had to get deeper into that company and that sector. 

And Jim is not uncomfortable going (1:02:12) deep in the details. In fact, he lives in the details. That’s how he’s able to make decisions. 

(1:02:18) And so for someone to say, oh, I don’t like to micromanage, there’s a difference. Micromanaging (1:02:24) is telling them what to do all the time and not give them space. I mean, Jim gave people (1:02:29) that were CEOs of these companies the space, but he was also very aware of the details and the (1:02:37) conversation was not at a surface level. 

It was very much in the details. And I learned that from (1:02:43) I learned that you have to really get into the nuts and bolts of it and find a way to (1:02:51) really help them. But it’s not micromanaging, it’s just kind of being knowledgeable. 

(1:02:57) You know, the phraseology, I guess you would say that I’ve learned about that (1:03:03) on some of the best leaders fly at 50,000 feet. They know how to get down to five feet (1:03:10) and then back up to 50 and they can vacillate. They do. 

And, you know, with that whole (1:03:17) piece in mind, though, that you have to give room to the leader who’s actually doing the doing, (1:03:25) right, to that ground level leader. You’ve got to still give them the space, but you have to be able (1:03:28) to talk intelligently and ask the right questions. And that’s what it’s all about. 

(1:03:34) And, you know, we see it in technology where some of the best questions come from a CEO (1:03:41) client of ours that doesn’t know anything about the deep details because they’re inquisitive. (1:03:48) They know that they have to ask a bunch of questions. They’re not afraid to look (1:03:53) silly in asking the extra question, right? How is that made? Why? Why, why, why? You know, (1:03:59) three or four why’s and you start to get down to the real meat of it. 

Oh, okay. Now I’m (1:04:03) understanding the genesis of this. Now I, now I can then relate it to, you know, how it’s affecting (1:04:09) the balance sheet, you know, whatever. 

But just that ability to vacillate from the 50,000 down (1:04:15) to five and then back up to 50 where you belong, you know, for the most of the time is, is quite (1:04:20) remarkable. So it’s, it’s interesting to hear that those guys do that because I think the, (1:04:26) I think the sentiment on the street is more like, oh, those private equity guys, (1:04:30) they just are just looking at the numbers. Well, here’s some examples, right? Here’s a guy actually (1:04:36) looking at the meal on the airplane, right? He’s not looking at just the dollars and cents there. 

(1:04:41) He’s saying, is anybody going to consume this thing? You know, that’s product market fit right (1:04:45) there. And he’s, you know, he’s, he’s testing it in real time. So those are some really neat (1:04:53) you know, visionaries that you were able to work with too. 

(1:04:55) I mean, outside of private equity, I then went to SoftBank. I have worked at SoftBank where (1:05:02) Masa-san, who’s the founder of SoftBank, this is a guy who studied in California. His (1:05:12) mother and father, you know, his father, I think is Korean. 

His mother’s Japanese. He lives in (1:05:20) Tokyo, but you know, one of the most successful investors that has ever lived. (1:05:29) And it was extraordinary because Masa-san who found Jack Ma, who’s the founder of Alibaba (1:05:36) in his kitchen and found him in China about what Alibaba could be and was the first investor in (1:05:46) Alibaba. 

And has now been seen as probably one of the best investments ever in history. (1:05:52) But take that aside. He has been, he started a fund, $100 billion fund, largest fund that (1:06:00) has ever existed, $100 billion. 

Think about that number, $100 billion. And he is investing in the (1:06:07) newest types of technologies. And that’s where I sit. 

I sit and I love the bleeding edge of (1:06:14) technology. And so I specialize in AI. I specialize in, you know, machine learning and (1:06:21) Web 3.0, just the platform, the security features that are coming out of these different types of (1:06:26) technologies. 

You know, Masa-san was big on AI for when I was working at SoftBank. His biggest (1:06:34) thing was AI for years, years ago. That’s how I got into it more deeply, just managing and reviewing (1:06:42) the regulatory environment within for AI and machine learning and where it was going. 

And (1:06:50) now, in 2024, AI is such a known name. But back then, I mean, it was very new in some ways, (1:07:03) although AI has been around for many, many, many years in machine learning. But Masa-san was (1:07:10) talking about AI years ago, as far as an investment thesis, where now it’s so prevalent (1:07:18) and it’s now really going mainstream. 

And people are still trying to figure out, like, how is this (1:07:25) going to impact me? How am I going to be able to use as a business owner? How do I learn which (1:07:32) platform will be to my benefit? I mean, it’s still early stage. And I love that. (1:07:37) It’s fun to see. 

It’s great to see. We’ve seen some products recently that are working well in (1:07:43) the mid-market. And it’s quite phenomenal. 

A couple of really neat use cases. And we’ve got (1:07:54) some services evolving on our horizon here that will be in that sector. And it’s very exciting. 

(1:08:02) And I mean, just the sky’s the limit. So maybe in a separate episode, we can talk(1:08:09) maybe just specifically about that. So government, back into the, whatever you want to call it, (1:08:19) the real world, the private sector. 

The private sector. (1:08:22) The private sector. And then back in the first Trump. 

(1:08:31) So I got, Wilbur Ross was going to be nominated to be Secretary of Commerce.(1:08:39) And they were looking for people to help him in his nomination. And in politics, it’s called a (1:08:46) Sherpa, which is you help that person go through the nominating process, which is securing these (1:08:54) interviews with the senators and kind of demonstrating the ability and why that person (1:09:01) would be best fit for that job. 

And so I served as a Sherpa to help him go through. And it was, (1:09:09) there was two of us. I was one of two. 

But the whole goal was, this was a man who had so much (1:09:15) experience in the business sector. And he lived, once again, also in the details. He was very aware (1:09:23) of all the technical rates for all the different sectors within, like if it was socks, autos, (1:09:30) oil, steel. 

I mean, he was very well-versed. Nobody knew that. I mean, why would they know (1:09:38) that, right? Sure. 

(1:09:39) So our job was to really go and meet with all the senators. And not just from one party,(1:09:45) but both parties to demonstrate that he had, from his years of work, was a reasoned voice (1:09:53) for the American enterprise and could be a great advocate and a sounding board and great advisor (1:09:59) to the president. And so what I love about that exercise was that we just did our own thing. 

(1:10:08) And he ended up getting more bipartisan support than any other candidate, cabinet member, (1:10:15) because our approach was very wide. And yeah, it worked. It was great. 

Plus he’s a very smart (1:10:23) and capable person. So it’s easy when you have someone like that to kind of support and help. (1:10:29) And then after you got him in. 

(1:10:31) I left and went back into like investment, alternative. (1:10:35) Okay. Got it. 

Did you just kind of take like a sabbatical almost? (1:10:38) I did. Yeah. (1:10:39) And did you go right back to the same job and everything? Or (1:10:42) back to the same industry? (1:10:44) Back into alternative assets on the investing world. 

(1:10:48) Okay. Gotcha. Wow. 

That’s so fascinating. So what’s anything right now that you’re reading, (1:10:59) listening to, watching that’s either shaping some of your thoughts or that you find inspirational (1:11:06) for others to be paying attention to? (1:11:08) I’m doing a post-master’s work on AI. I’m in the middle of, I’m doing a Python and machine (1:11:17) learning coding class. 

So to go deeper into my knowledge of web machine learning. (1:11:25) Are you learning to code yourself? (1:11:26) I’m coding right now. So I work at this hotel. 

And then when I have time at night, (1:11:34) which is about nine o’clock at night from nine to 11, I code. And on the weekends, (1:11:41) when there’s not a football game that I need to watch on.(1:11:44) Need. 

Yes. (1:11:45) That I need to watch. I will code all day, Saturday and Sunday. 

(1:11:51) Really? (1:11:52) And I’m taking the class right now. That’s a whole year. And it’s been hard because. 

(1:12:00) I’ll bet. (1:12:00) You know, we launched this hotel, but I put my heart into this, (1:12:06) but I’m constantly always finding ways to enhance my skill set. (1:12:10) Love it. 

You’re a lifelong learner. (1:12:12) I’m a lifelong learner. And I decided that I thought coding and machine learning. 

So right (1:12:18) now I’m doing linear regression on machine learning, but I just spent three months coding (1:12:24) for Python. I’m in the middle of doing linear regression, multi-linear regression (1:12:29) analyses. And that way I can really go deep into the analysis of what any company (1:12:38) is trying to sell you as an AI product. 

(1:12:40) Sure. Sure. (1:12:40) I want to know for myself and call out. 

Can we say bullshit here? (1:12:47) You can, you can say. (1:12:48) I’m going to, we’re going to call it bullshit. I want to call out bullshit on the new things (1:12:52) because with any new sector, there’s a lot of, you know, oil salesmen. 

(1:12:57) Well, what was the, what was the, what was the electric vehicle company that, (1:13:01) that really had all had no cattle? It was, um, they had the truck they, that they had (1:13:08) the commercial for, and they found out that it was, it was, it was all, it was all fake. (1:13:14) Is it Nick, Nick? (1:13:15) I don’t remember, but, uh. (1:13:17) I can’t remember what it’s called, but. 

(1:13:18) The fact is this technology is going to penetrate. (1:13:19) But I’m just saying your, your, your point though, I mean, is in, on, on the investment (1:13:24) side to be able to call bullshit, right? So many people didn’t see past that on a major (1:13:30) investment. I, I applaud you for that. 

Right. I mean, that’s, that’s great to. (1:13:34) That’s again, getting rolled up. 

I am not a computer scientist. (1:13:40) That’s what I was going to say is nowhere else. Did we ever talk about doing, (1:13:45) but you never did any coding before. 

(1:13:46) I’ve never done any coding, but I’m coding to really understand the products that are(1:13:52) going to become available and call out the bullshit on it. (1:13:56) Love it. (1:13:57) Because that’s the level I want to be at. 

I want to be at the very, at, you know, (1:14:03) the people that I’ve worked with, the companies that I’ve helped are the best in class. (1:14:08) Well, and I think you’ve continued to say that, that you use the word sector, (1:14:14) right? And so like, you know, the technology sector, what, what, what people don’t necessarily, um, (1:14:21) maybe understand is by being inquisitive, by being willing to do a little bit of work, (1:14:30) you can become an expert in darn near everything, anything. (1:14:34) Right. 

And so, you know, here you are a hotelier now, a Python coder, right. (1:14:41) An investment, uh, you know, a participant in investment banking, um, or a private equity. (1:14:48) Right. 

Uh, the private, but now more venture capital, but yeah, sure. Okay. (1:14:53) But the investment world, the investment world, um, all by just being inquisitive, (1:14:58) right. 

And just, and also being able to plow through the anxiety pieces of it, (1:15:03) knowing that it’s going to exist and be part of the process. So I think it’s, (1:15:07) it’s, it’s kind of remarkable. And I mean, I love to see the, like what I’m, what I love (1:15:11) that we get to pick up here in a conversation like this is kind of like, almost like identifying (1:15:17) markers that I have now of you. 

Right. And, and things that I can then pick up and emulate in my (1:15:23) life, right. To, to go, okay, how would Israel handle this one? Right. 

Uh, you know, call a (1:15:29) little bullshit, dig a little deeper, you know, uh, be a little bit more inquisitive. So I think, (1:15:36) I think we’re learning a lot from you. Yeah. 

Thanks. So, um, and we didn’t even talk about (1:15:40) the hotel. Well, we’re going to let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about that because, uh, we’ve, (1:15:44) we’ve got, we’ve got an interview with, with your partner, uh, uh, Ty, Ty Humpert is going to be on (1:15:50) the, uh, on an episode with us and we’re going to really be focused deep on Otis Harbor Springs. 

(1:15:56) This, this very special gem in Northern Michigan that, uh, um, I was here on a Wednesday night (1:16:04) and wall the wall people. And that’s pretty amazing. So, yeah, we have put deep focus on (1:16:12) providing just a great experience and, and that goes to everything about the detail. 

(1:16:19) I think when you’ll talk to Ty, he’s going to talk about the history of this property(1:16:24) and then just the attention we’ve given to the fuel of it, which is then going to finding pieces (1:16:32) that are authentic, that are not on any storefront, but you go find its history and then you build (1:16:38) on it. And we have also brought in an amazing team. Our chefs are best in class. 

They moved (1:16:46) here from San Francisco. Our general manager who worked at Shinola is now up here with us in Harbor (1:16:52) Springs. We have a team of locals who just love Harbor Springs. 

And all we want to do is offer (1:17:02) like quality things to have these great experiences with friends and family. (1:17:07) And, you know, we have almost 10 acres and what’s great about being in Northern Michigan, (1:17:13) and we are on this Ridge over, you know, where you can hear Lake Michigan outside the door (1:17:19) is that, uh, it’s a retreat. You feel, you feel the fresh air, the sounds of Lake Michigan, (1:17:29) all the animals around us that you hear on an ongoing basis, the serenity of this space (1:17:36) just offers really beautiful places for you to sit and enjoy just a moment. 

(1:17:43) And it could be by yourself, or it could be with a group of friends or it could be with family. (1:17:47) But we have found that what makes us most happy is when people come and just enjoy the food, (1:17:56) enjoy the cocktails, just the experience of being here. And we built this to have it more like a (1:18:02) So that’s what it feels like you feel like you are in your living room and you can just have (1:18:07) these moments with friends and just stay a while. 

You can read a book here. You can enjoy an evening (1:18:13) out. Um, so yeah, it’s, it, it, our whole goal is for people to have these great experiences. 

(1:18:20) Yeah. Well, I mean, I love that it’s, it’s centered around the attention to detail. And I think, um, (1:18:25) uh, I’ve, I’ve even said it on other episodes of the podcast in, in kind of preparation for this is (1:18:31) that I was, I was here, uh, over the summer when you had just opened and I was sitting on the deck, (1:18:37) having a coffee with a friend of mine who, who was staying at the hotel. 

And I look over and I (1:18:42) look at the, I look at the seat that surrounds the, that surrounds the deck and it’s made out (1:18:47) of the same material. And I look over and I’m like, that that’s not just your average treated lumber. (1:18:54) That’s a, that’s a piece of some specialty wood. 

That is every P every single piece is routered. (1:19:00) Every hole is drilled, countersunk and wood plugged. Correct. 

Okay. And then I take my gaze (1:19:08) down to the, to the second board next to it. Right. 

And I see that’s an inside board. It didn’t need (1:19:14) to be routered, but it’s routered. Okay. 

Then I looked down at the floor, it’s the same thing, (1:19:19) every single plank. And I’m going, okay, that’s attention to detail. There’s something special (1:19:23) here. 

I want to learn more. And so that’s when I reached out to our common friends and got, uh,(1:19:28) got introduced to you guys and said, Hey, we need to talk. I, this is, this is cool. 

(1:19:33) It’s been great. We’ve been open six months. Um, but we’ve also have been finalist in two (1:19:41) national categories. 

Yeah. And I just had a big article come out, uh, in a, in a magazine here (1:19:46) too. And I know you’ve been listed and we were featured in our Friday day show and outside (1:19:52) magazine. 

It’s been actually been really fun. Well, I can’t wait to do the episode with Ty, (1:19:56) where we really just dig into this place and all of the thought that’s gone into it. And, um, you (1:20:02) know, taking all of his experiences, plus obviously now the people who have watched this episode, no, (1:20:08) all of your experiences and kind of just how your mind works and, you know, (1:20:12) the thoughtfulness and everything behind you there and the intentionality,(1:20:15) I think are really special. 

So thanks for being here and doing this, uh, and, and sharing your (1:20:21) story with us. All right. Great. 

Thank you. Thank you.