(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move,(0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

Welcome to our episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m here (0:41) with my friend, Shannon Strybeck. Thank you for being here, Shannon.

Thank you for having me. (0:46) You’re welcome. And Shannon is a wife, mother, board chair of the Michigan Health and Hospital (0:53) Association, and in her spare time is also the president and CEO of Trinity Health Michigan (0:59) Market.

That takes up a good chunk of your part-time, right? Yeah, a good chunk of my time. (1:06) Okay, good. Shannon and I have known each other for quite some time and really love being around (1:12) her and her husband, Tom, and so happy that you agreed to be a part of this today and tell (1:18) everybody a little bit about your story.

Yeah, I’m glad to be here with you. Thanks for having me. (1:22) So, what do you want to talk about? We can talk about whatever you want to talk about.

(1:30) Where do you want to start? Business, life, technology, and transformations. I don’t know.(1:36) Pick a category.

Let’s talk a little business first, then we’ll get some of that (1:40) old background on you. Yeah, that sounds good. Perfect.

Good. So where’d you grow up? I grew up, (1:46) I was born in Michigan. I was born at the old former Oakwood Hospital, which is now (1:54) Corwell-Dearborn, I think, and I lived actually in Grosse Ile as a kid and moved to West Bloomfield (2:01) when I was in elementary school and then moved to the western part of New York, to Orchard Park, (2:06) New York, when I was 11.

I was in seventh grade. My dad worked for Ford, you know, his entire life, (2:13) my entire life, and that’s what brought us to the western part of New York. Gotcha.

Actually, (2:17) I forgot about the Grosse Ile piece. Did you grow up on the lakeside of Grosse Ile,(2:22) or were you in the middle of it? We were right in the middle of the island, and that was,(2:28) it was a really cool place to live as a kid, you know, because it was safe to, you know,(2:35) ride your bike around to your friends’ houses, and I had a really good friend that lived(2:38) close to the riverside, and it was small but big enough that, you know, it was fun. I loved(2:45) living there as a kid, yeah.

Ron Thomas, who was a guest of ours, he’s a Wyandotte native, (2:51) and he does a lot of construction renovation projects down there and has really revitalized (2:58) some of that area, but the island, he took us for a tour around it. It’s cool, right? It’s (3:04) very, very unique. Yeah, what a gem.

Yeah. So, cool upbringing, though. Yeah, yeah, it was, (3:11) both environments were great, you know, actually all three of them.

I loved (3:16) the town that we lived in, Orchard Park. It’s a small town. It’s actually pretty similar to (3:20) Rochester in terms of how it feels, so just, you know, a very beautiful, small town about 15 (3:27) minutes outside of Buffalo, so close to the city, but great schools.

It was a great place to grow up. (3:33) All three of them were, though. Awesome, awesome.

I grew up on Lake St. Clair for (3:38) quite some time, so we had that lake upbringing and, you know, kind of rurally feel, and it was (3:43) pretty neat stuff. So, and what would you do for schooling? Well, actually, so as part of that, (3:51) though, you did, in high school, you did meet, you met Tom there, right? Was it junior high (3:56) or high school? No, it was high school. Okay.

He was a junior, and I was a freshman when we, like, (4:02) met one another, but we didn’t start dating immediately. Okay. So yeah, I finished high (4:08) school at Orchard Park, and I went, my first year of undergrad, I went to SUNY Buffalo, which is (4:14) just, it’s a big, big, big campus, and it just wasn’t the right, wasn’t the right fit for me, (4:19) too big.

I was still kind of trying to figure out, you know, what I wanted to do, and I ended up (4:27) transferring to a very small SUNY school called SUNY Fredonia, and if you don’t know (4:32) western New York, you do not know where SUNY Fredonia is. You’ve never heard of it, (4:37) but it was great. It was, you know, 5,000 students.

I don’t think I ever took a huge (4:43) lecture class in undergrad, so I had a really good undergrad experience. I worked as a resident (4:48) assistant. We had a really small… Were you the, what kind of RA were you? I was… Were you the (4:54) total rule follower? No, I was, like, balanced.

I was, like, a big sister RA. Yeah, you know, (5:01) if it got out of hand, I would, I would step in. So, kept everybody safe, but didn’t micromanage.

(5:07) But you weren’t doing keg stands with the residents? No, definitely not. No, and I was(5:10) living with, I think both years, I lived with all freshmen girls. Oh, did you? Yeah.

So you (5:16) had to, you had to look out for them? Yeah, yeah, it was more of a, yeah, and I had great, (5:20) great friends that were RAs in the building that I was in. It was a good experience.(5:25) The start of your leadership, right? I think so.

You know, I didn’t really think about it that way, (5:30) but, yeah, I think that, and we had a really, really small Greek life at Fredonia, but I ended (5:37) up rushing a sorority, and I served in leadership for my sorority, too, and that was just another, (5:46) probably like my first early experiences being a leader. And, you know, when you think about (5:50) things in retrospect, they sort of make sense. Yeah, because, I mean, I had those friends who (5:55) always said, oh, I want to be a leader.

This is what I want to be, and that sounds a little bit (5:59) more organic, how it kind of evolved for you. It’s like, oh, looking back, it seems to be some (6:04) of the roots of it. Yeah, yeah.

Started to catch the bug a little? Yeah, I think so, and, you know, (6:10) in both instances, I think the nurturing part of leadership was just as satisfying as the leading (6:18) part of leadership, you know, and the opportunity to kind of influence through both the RA gig and (6:25) the sorority gig, kind of influencing the direction of what we were spending time doing, (6:31) but doing it with others. It was just, I think, satisfying in ways that, again, looking back, (6:37) kind of see it. I think when I was doing it, I just thought, this is kind of fun, and I’m kind (6:41) of enjoying this, so I’ll keep at it for a period of time.

Awesome. Yeah, yeah. So then, during that (6:51) time, besides that, any jobs when you were younger? Yeah, I… So I think you told me you (6:58) were working since… I started working, I mean… You were like nine or something, they put you out (7:01) in the field or something like that? I started babysitting.

You know, it’s kind of crazy when (7:05) you think about it, because I have four kids, as you know, and the age that I was when I was trusted (7:11) to watch other people’s kids, you know, I was, I think, 11, maybe, when I started babysitting, (7:17) maybe even younger than that, and we lived in the neighborhood that we lived in in West Bloomfield, (7:22) we had a ton of families, and so every weekend, I think I had a babysitting job, and there were (7:27) a couple families that I babysat for really, really frequently. My first W-2 official job, (7:33) I don’t think I told you this before, but my first job was at this small law firm in Orchard Park, (7:40) and I’m dating myself, but this was back in the days, I think it was a tax law firm, (7:47) if I remember correctly, and new editions of tax law would get, you know, replacement published (7:55) all the time, and my job was to go through the books and swap the new things in for the old (8:01) things, and I think I lasted like two weeks in this job. It was the most boring thing I had ever (8:06) done ever in my life, and I thought, well, I kind of like making money, but this is really not, (8:11) you know, some people can sit and listen to music and just kind of, and I just, it was, (8:15) I was isolated, I wasn’t working with anybody, it was just not my thing, so there’s this grocery (8:20) store called Wegmans in New York, and I think they’re now in Pennsylvania and in a couple (8:25) other places, and when I, I mean, Wegmans is like the greatest grocery store on the face of the (8:30) earth, so I went to work there, and I stayed working there.

I think I started when I was (8:37) almost 15. I was just old enough to have, yeah, to legally have that kind of a job, (8:44) and I continued working there until… Didn’t we have work permits or something? I think so, (8:49) I think so. I don’t know even where we would have got them, but I remember hearing… I don’t either, (8:53) but I know that there was, I could only train until I turned a certain age, and then I could (8:58) actually like work work, so I started as early as I was able to, and I actually had a partial (9:05) scholarship to undergrad through Wegmans.

Oh, no kidding. It was that kind of a place, yeah, (9:09) it was just, it was a really great place to work. A lot of my friends worked there, (9:13) but I think I’ve been working for as long as I can remember, you know, just, just doing something.

(9:20) When you were there, were you doing like stock work and like being a stock person, (9:23) or a little bit of everything? I was, I worked as a cashier for a while, I worked (9:29) in kind of the non-cooking part of the bakery for a while, and then I worked in the kind of gourmet (9:36) foods area for probably the longest time, where we, you know, prepped salad bars and made sandwiches (9:42) and all that kind of stuff. I used to work in, my dad had a boat hardware store, marine hardware (9:47) store, and I just remember, you know, there was never, if you had time to lean, you got time to (9:52) clean, you know, so it’s like if you, if there was no customer in the store, you were facing off or (9:59) stocking shelves or pulling the stock forward to make sure the shelves look good, so anytime I think (10:03) of when somebody talks about a nice grocery store, it’s like you think about how the nicest grocery (10:07) stores look. It’s like they’re always, they always look full, you know, everything’s faced off and (10:12) clean, and it’s kind of an obsessive sort of thing.

Did you ever get any of that? Well, I mean, (10:17) I think, that start to develop there or anything? I don’t know if you’re obsessive. I like things (10:21) orderly. I think it’s probably more like the quality of the products that we made and that (10:29) we sold.

I think, well, the standards were very high. This, you know, Wegmans started just like (10:33) a lot of large grocery chains as a small family-owned business, so there was still (10:37) a lot of those elements of kind of pride of ownership, super high standards, you know, (10:44) customer service was a really high priority, and there was a lot of training on those types (10:50) of things. I think, you know, it’s funny, again, thinking back, I love to cook now, and I wonder (10:58) how much of that was nurtured just in some of this work that I did growing up between that and(11:04) just, you know, my family’s heritage and my grandparents immigrating here from Poland,(11:09) and just food is just a big part of life, but I think those two things together probably continue (11:16) to influence me.

Yeah, so less obsessive. I’m not a neat freak. I do like the kitchen clean, (11:22) though.

It makes me crazy when the kitchen’s not clean. It does. It makes me totally crazy.

(11:25) I think, for me, it was like, whether it fed the need or caused it, I’m not sure, (11:31) of the never-sitting-still. Oh, yeah, always up doing something. (11:34) Yeah, you’re not just sitting around watching TV.

You’re moving those products and making (11:40) it look good for when the next person comes in, and then, you know, white glove service. (11:43) Oh, yeah. But that word pride, the pride of ownership, (11:48) that’s something that I, you know, I’m very happy that we have a lot of that here in my (11:53) organization, but that is the piece that I think, when you hear the person complain at the restaurant (11:59) or, you know, at the hospital or whatever, it’s like, however you do one thing is how you do (12:04) everything, and the pride of whether you’re, I don’t know who’s got the song, I think, (12:11) Mac McAnally or somebody, it’s my job, right? It doesn’t matter if you’re mopping the floors (12:15) or what, but to have that pride of doing a job well, no matter what the job is, and you probably (12:20) see a ton of that in the hospital world.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, we refer to it as (12:26) kind of having an owner’s mind, you know, and it’s hard to convey the importance of that spirit, (12:36) and, you know, your hope is that every single colleague that works within your hospital, (12:41) your healthcare organization has that owner’s mind where they really do think this is my job, (12:49) and we try, I think that’s really important. I think you get a lot more satisfaction out of (12:56) your job if you do feel a sense of ownership over, you know, the way that your work gets done, (13:00) the way that your interactions go, et cetera, and I think it gets harder and harder to build (13:07) that spirit as, you know, life gets more complex and healthcare is pretty complex, but, you know, (13:13) ultimately it’s the interaction and the relationship between the individual, whether (13:18) it’s a housekeeper or a nurse or a physician and the patient that makes, can make all the world of(13:23) difference in that patient’s care and in their experience, and I know housekeepers that have (13:30) worked at our hospitals. We were just talking about one earlier today.

She’s worked at our (13:36) Oakland hospital for over 40 years, and she talks about taking care of patients. She sees that as (13:41) her job, which is, I mean, if I could bottle that, you know, it’s awesome. Yeah, that’s great.

Yeah, (13:46) that’s great. We’ll get a little more into, obviously, about your job and that. (13:52) So, after you retired from Wegmans.

Yes, after I retired, yeah. But, no, I’m just kidding. After (13:59) that, back into school and then moved back to Michigan? My parents, so I mentioned my dad, (14:08) he was a lifer at Ford, and he took a transfer opportunity to come back to Michigan when I was (14:18) just starting my senior year of undergrad, so they left Orchard Park.

I stayed in New York. I (14:24) finished my undergrad, and then I knew that, you know, what I’m doing is what I wanted to do, (14:30) and I also knew that it would be a really good thing for me to get some additional education, (14:36) so I decided to go to graduate school. I ended up going to The Ohio State University for my (14:43) master’s degree, and so I moved to Columbus for a couple years, and then I did a postgraduate (14:48) fellowship in Michigan, which is what brought me back.

Okay, and where was the one in Michigan? (14:52) The fellowship? Yeah. It was at the Detroit Medical Center. Oh, okay, great, great.

Back up, (14:57) though, there was, when did you, so when did you and Tom start dating, though? Like, I think, (15:08) dating, dating, probably, I think I was like a sophomore in high school, maybe, I think, (15:14) and he was a senior. I think that’s when we started dating, and, you know, we dated, (15:21) we dated throughout high school. We had a couple of times where we, you know, we grew apart from (15:27) another, but always found ourselves back together, and I think, you know, for us, that was, I think, (15:35) confirming that we were, you know, with the person that we were supposed to be with.

I’m glad that (15:40) things went that way, but. Yeah, some people, obviously, you know, you see them get back (15:44) together and break up, and you’re going, no, no, no, no, this is a sign, this is a sign, get out of this. (15:50) Well, I can attest, you know, I know Tom real well, so awesome guy, and awesome relationship (15:55) you guys have, and the balance you’ve kind of built, and that we can talk about that, but (15:59) you also mentioned that you knew that you wanted to do this.

When was that? Because I know we were (16:05) talking the other day, and I was saying, boy, you know, I still don’t know what I want to do, (16:09) you know, when I grow up, and I always, you know, I always look at, like, a doctor, so it’s usually (16:14) health care that I’m comparing to where the person said, oh, you know, I’ve known since I was 12 (16:18) years old I wanted to be a doctor, I wanted to be an astronaut, or whatever, and then they go, (16:21) and they do it, and I always knew I wanted to be in business, I didn’t ever really know exactly (16:25) what I wanted to do, so when did that, when did that kind of hit you? So there’s a couple things (16:31) that stick out, so, you know, I mentioned when I was an undergrad, I wasn’t really sure what I was (16:36) going to get a degree in. Looking back, I had a couple of health care experiences as a kid,(16:45) and they’re nothing significant, you know, going to the dentist, going to the pediatrician,(16:48) and I just remember interacting with the staff in that office, you know, as an adult I’m saying (16:55) this, as a kid I wasn’t thinking this, but I remember thinking how safe I felt when I was (17:02) in the care of some of these people, and how good that felt, because I was a kid that tended to be (17:07) a nervous patient, and I always had sort of an interest in health care, you know, I wasn’t sure (17:16) what I wanted to do with it. I thought for a minute about whether I wanted to pursue some (17:22) kind of a clinical career, and I kind of decided that just didn’t feel right, and I found myself (17:26) thinking, God, I don’t know what the heck I’m going to do, and I met, met through a friend, (17:32) some students that were in this program in undergrad, this health administration program (17:36) that I did not know was a thing.

I mean, I really, I didn’t know that there was a special (17:40) education path for people that, you know, wanted to lead in health care. Yeah, (17:44) so be in the business, but not be a health care practitioner. Exactly, because I knew I didn’t (17:48) want to do general business.

I knew I didn’t have any interest in automotive. I knew kind of (17:52) what I didn’t want to do. I really was drawn to service, and I was drawn to health care specifically, (17:57) so it was, you know, this interaction I had with a student at SUNY Fredonia who was, (18:04) I think she was a senior in the health administration program.

She was running (18:08) the Student Health Center. I went and spent some time with her, and after I spent time with her, (18:13) I was intrigued enough to kind of meet with some of the faculty in this undergrad program, (18:17) and I reviewed the course curriculum, and I thought, you know, this is pretty interesting. (18:21) You know, you take plagues in people’s classes, and you’re taking classes in health care economics, (18:25) and you still have to take accounting, but it felt kind of interesting and balanced, and (18:30) part of the educational requirement was we had to do a residency between our junior and senior year (18:37) of undergrad, so I get assigned to Mercy Hospital in South Buffalo for my residency, (18:42) and it was that experience that sealed the deal for me.

I knew, and it was just, and this is part (18:50) of why I think exposing young people to careers so that they can see what’s possible is so important, (18:56) especially early, but I just, I had just an outstanding learning experience, you know, and I (19:01) it was the watching the executive team work together to problem solve on behalf of the (19:07) community. It was the clinical rotations I did where I was interacting with staff and with (19:12) physicians and with patients that was just fascinating for me, and I didn’t tell you this (19:18) before, but I had to write a business plan that summer, and I had never written a business plan (19:22) ever in my life. And CHAT GPT wasn’t there to help? No, this was old school figure it out, (19:27) and I had one person in the finance department who was helpful kind of on modeling the financials, (19:34) but my first pass at this thing, and it was to add a Holter monitor cardiac service kind of out into(19:41) one of the outlying communities, East Aurora, New York, so this is not high-tech stuff today.

(19:47) At that time, it was all about creating access. We know all about Holter monitors though, don’t we? (19:50) Yes, you do. You and Tom have both had enough experience with those things, so I take the (19:55) first pass at this business plan, and I give it to my mentor, and he reviews it, and I can tell by the (19:59) look on his face that I didn’t hit the mark, and he said to me, he said, you know what, it’s okay.

(20:04) I can take it from here, and I looked at him, and I said, no. I said, you got to give me another (20:08) chance at this. Give me some feedback so that I can learn, and I took his feedback, and I reworked (20:13) it and brought it back to him, and it did hit the mark the second time, and I think even just that (20:19) opportunity, it was just a wonderful opportunity, and that’s when I knew I could see myself doing (20:26) that kind of work for the rest of my career, and that’s when I knew I got to go get my master’s (20:30) degree if I really want to do this, but yeah.

And you did tell me that you dabbled a little bit in (20:35) the practitioner side, and I did, but I just maybe passed out in front of or almost passed out. (20:42) I did. I did a lot of clinical observation that summer, and I loved all of it.

However, there was (20:47) one experience where I was in a really, really small negative pressure room, and the patient was (20:55) an older gentleman, and he was having a procedure called a bronchoscopy, so you know, kind of tube (21:01) up the nose into the lungs to get junk out of the lungs, and I was standing right at his feet, (21:09) and between the size of the room, how uncomfortable he looked, and the noise, I thought, (21:15) oh, I’m going to pass out, like right now, this guy, I got to get out of here, and you know, I had sat (21:19) through a couple different surgeries. I had sat through several colonoscopies and endoscopies, (21:26) and was fine with all of it, but it was that, and I don’t know, it was just an assault on the senses, (21:31) just too much, and I think being able to see how uncomfortable this poor guy was, and I thought, (21:36) oh god, yeah, I got to get out of here. I don’t want to be causing this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. (21:39) Yeah, so well, that’s great, and so then, so then back into your first experience with, (21:48) at the Mercy Group in New York, that was another faith-based hospital as well. Yeah, (21:53) and I remember there was a sister of Mercy that was still, you know, kind of acting as a VP of (21:59) Mission, so she was a part of the leadership team when I was there, and you know, I think that (22:06) service to the community and, you know, as a foundational element of why that hospital (22:14) existed, it was very, very evident in everything from the discussions that, you know, the team had, (22:21) I mean, this is a long time ago, and I can still remember this, but it was just this feeling of, (22:25) this place is here to serve a greater purpose than just, you know, be a transactional healthcare (22:30) provider.

Well, you said it, I don’t remember what the words you used were, but you had said something(22:33) like, when I’m, when I was, when I was in the faith-based ministries, and also, now that’s(22:40) obviously what you run. Right. Now here, too, is a faith-based organization, was the, you said, (22:47) I don’t need a mission statement on the wall.

I know, I know what my mission is every single day. (22:51) All the time, it is a lot, our mission to be a transforming healing presence, it is alive and (22:57) well. I mean, it really, it, it’s kind of the underpinning, so it’s, you know, you see mission (23:02) statements, vision statements, value statements, and sometimes those feel like things that sit on (23:08) a wall that aren’t worked every day, but I think in faith-based healthcare, it is different.

It’s (23:14) definitely different within Trinity. We refer to our mission and our vision and our values (23:21) regularly. It’s very much kind of a living, breathing, you know, if we test some of the (23:27) we’re launching against those basic elements of why we’re here.

So that, that speaks to me as a (23:34) leader. Great, and that’s, you would, how many locations are you guys across Michigan? In (23:39) Michigan, we have nine hospitals across the state, and we have, I think our stats that are on our (23:46) website show 22 health centers, but in reality, I think we have 355 individual physician locations (23:55) across the state of Michigan. So pretty much from east to southwest, there’s that little strip in (24:00) the middle in Lansing where we don’t have a presence right now, but we’ve got really good (24:05) coverage in southeast Michigan and in west Michigan.

Okay, and well, and then Ann Arbor, (24:09) you had referred me to a group in Ann Arbor there at one time. We’ve got five hospitals in, well, (24:15) I consider Ann Arbor part of southeast, because that’s how we talk about it. So St. Joe’s Ann (24:21) Arbor, Trinity Health Ann Arbor, our Chelsea Hospital, which is a joint venture with Michigan (24:25) Medicine.

We have a hospital in Howell that we’re rebuilding right now. It will move to Brighton. (24:32) Okay.

Really awesome new campus that’ll have full service inpatient and outpatient on the same(24:38) campus, and the buildings are connected, which is awesome. And then Livonia, Trinity Health Livonia, (24:43) and Trinity Health Oakland on this side of the state. West Michigan, we’ve got a hospital in (24:47) Grand Rapids.

We have Trinity Health Muskegon and Trinity Health Grand Haven. And then do you (24:52) have peers that are similar to you in other states and regions that… Yep. And what does that kind(24:59) of look like? What does the whole footprint look like? So Trinity itself is, it’s a big national (25:02) healthcare system.

We have 94, I think is the count, the current count hospitals in 22 states, (25:12) and we’re divided into regions. And I think the regional component of our org structure (25:19) came about when we came together with Catholic Health East, because we doubled our size. This (25:23) was in like 2013.

So you can’t have 90 some odd individual hospital executives reporting to one (25:29) person at a system level. And then just this notion of how are we working together to care (25:36) for a community? So there’s 14 regions across Trinity that range from California to Iowa to (25:45) Loyola is a part of Trinity Health. We’ve got locations in Florida, Georgia, and then kind of(25:50) along the East Coast, in addition to Michigan.

But Michigan’s the biggest region of Trinity. (25:56) Catholic Health East, you just jogged my memory. My brother and I owned a different company prior (26:02) to me being in this.

He’s still in it. And we did the computer recycling for Trinity Health. And (26:08) then with the Catholic Health East merger, started to do some work with them and actually just talked (26:13) to about two or three months ago, one of the executives that we worked with at Catholic Health(26:19) East had contacted me about some stuff he had going on.

So we’ve been talking. So I forgot about (26:25) all that. Yeah, all that intertwining.

So that’s, that’s funny. So but when you first came back here, (26:32) you, so let’s kind of finish up on just kind of the career stuff. And then let’s talk a lot more (26:37) about what you what you guys are up to, and kind of what your what your passions are nowadays.

But (26:41) came back here, you worked at DMC for a little while, and then had an opportunity to kind of (26:47) figure out what you wanted to do. Well, I when I was at Ohio State, I had a graduate assistantship. (26:53) So I, you know, that was, I think that was my first experience in an academic medical center.

(26:59) Okay. And we, I worked in the Department of Strategic Planning for OSU Medical Center.(27:04) And it was great.

I mean, I had, it was wonderful. We were leveraged as planning resources. You know, (27:10) it wasn’t scut work.

We were really leveraged as graduate students to help support our clients. (27:17) That’s the wrong word. But the, you know, the folks on the hospital side that we were supporting.

(27:21) The DMC also, you know, complex academic system. And when I did my fellowship,(27:30) DMC owned a health plan. What the heck was it called? DMC care, I think.

Anyway, (27:37) we had a health plan. You know, I had three, three preceptors, a hospital leader, health plan leader, (27:44) and a corporate, the corporate VP of planning. So I had an awesome fellowship experience.

And I stayed (27:50) the DMC for five, six years post fellowship. Okay. I worked at Children’s.

That was the last (27:57) job I had at the DMC. It was a wonderful, wonderful place to work. But I, you know, (28:03) you get calls to consider jobs.

Sometimes when you’re not looking for a job and a friend of (28:08) mine called and said, you know, there’s this job at, it was St. Joe’s Oakland at the time, (28:13) now Trinity Health Oakland. And you should check it out. And, and I look at the job and I’m like, (28:18) why in the heck would I check this job out? I’ve never done anything like this.

It was overseeing (28:22) construction and real estate. And, and, you know, we were in the middle of building a, (28:28) a replacement emergency department in a new tower. And I had, did not, hadn’t even considered doing (28:34) that kind of work.

And she said, I don’t know. She said, just the environment’s really great. Just, (28:39) you know, come in and interview, see what you think.

So I, I go to this interview. Now, mind (28:45) you, I’m living in Rochester and driving to Detroit. Living in Rochester and driving to (28:48) Pontiac is a much easier commute than driving to Detroit.

So I drive over for this interview (28:52) and I walked into this hospital and that’s when I thought, like I was hit with this feeling when (28:59) I walked past the chapel of, that I was in the right place, that I had kind of come home. And (29:04) it was, I think it was the, the, you know, faith-based mission orientation that just (29:09) felt tangible as soon as I walked in the door to that place. And the people I interacted with, (29:15) you know, people kind of walking you to the place that you need to go and felt sort of like being (29:20) around family, which is what I remembered from my early, early days at RC.

That safe feeling when, (29:25) or even when you were a kid though. I mean, you said, hey, the safe feeling of that as a kid. (29:29) Yeah, that it, you know, the, I’m here to help you without, you know, without any other motive (29:36) other than just to help you get literally from point A to point B. So I do this interview and (29:42) I still thought the job was, was, you know, I thought, God, this is like a lateral director (29:46) level job and it’s doing stuff I’ve never done before.

Why, why would I do this? But I still (29:50) just had this pulse. So I go home, Tom and I didn’t have kids yet. And I noticed when I was (29:55) there for the interview, we had a daycare center on campus.

And I remember thinking to myself, (30:03) wow, you know, a hospital that thinks enough of its employees to have its own building, (30:10) like a little school on the hospital campus proper. That tells me something about the (30:16) investment that this place is making in its people. So I dragged Tom back over there.

Cause (30:20) I said, you just, you’re going to think I’m crazy. Cause it’s, you know, it’s a pretty equivalent (30:24) level job to what I’m doing now, but there’s just something about it. And I want you to come (30:29) check it out with me.

So I drag him back there at like seven o’clock that night and we’re walking (30:33) around. And I think he had the same, like, it just kind of felt right. You know, it was big, (30:39) but not too big.

That same, that faith-based pull I think is what probably caught us both. So (30:46) I went for it. Yeah.

And here I am. That’s great. So yeah, not intentional, but it just, (30:54) you were called, right? Yeah.

And my kids all went to that daycare. Oh, did they? (31:01) Yep. Is it the daycare still, is it still something that they do? It’s still there.

(31:06) It’s now run by the Felician sisters that run the daycare at our Trinity Health Bavonia hospital (31:14) campus. And is that for, it’s for employees? And members of the community too. Yeah.

Yeah. So, (31:20) you know, it’s, it’s open to all. When my kids went, the, you know, the same people that took (31:28) care of Ellie took care of Jack, which is kind of crazy that, you know, cause there’s 12 years (31:32) between.

Sure. But yeah, it was, it just made a tremendous difference for me. Yeah.

And then, (31:40) I mean, and the kids were then close by to you too. Yeah. It’s just nothing better than, (31:44) you know, going to and from work with your kids in the car with you.

Well, I’ve always said like, (31:47) I mean, that, that to me has always been something that’s really interesting about, (31:51) you know, you and, you know, you, and then also you and Tom and your relationship is that, (31:56) you know, both of you are working, both of you have very good jobs, very big jobs. But yet, (32:02) you know, when I, when I see you guys, I don’t feel this division of labor type of thing where, (32:08) you know, a lot of families it’s like, whether the husband or the wife is the, is the main (32:11) breadwinner or whatever it might be, you know, so-and-so is always the, is the, (32:15) is the person taking care of the kids. And so like I just had my friend Mary and her husband (32:21) Scott did both did separate episodes and Scott, Scott actually was a retired boxer and he, (32:27) and he raised, he said, you know what, I’ve kind of achieved my, I did the things I wanted to do (32:33) and he wanted Mary to go do what she was going to do.

And so he says, I’m going to raise the kids. (32:37) And, and so there’s a, you know, very definitive draw there, but you guys have kind of an (32:43) interesting balance where, you know, when somebody sees you on the sidelines of the (32:49) soccer game, nobody knows that you’re running a big hospital or now running a big hospital system (32:54) in the state and everything like that. But, you know, talk about that balance.

Talk about how (32:59) you guys brought balance to, you know, two really hefty careers and still, you know, (33:06) very in touch with your kids, very much in touch with each other. How’d you guys, (33:12) how do you guys manage that? You know, I think, (33:17) so for us, you know, when we were first married, I don’t, I don’t know (33:24) that our professional ambition was top of either of our lists. We both wanted to have (33:30) good fulfilling careers, but we both were raised in environments where it was really all about (33:37) family, you know, and so we were both kind of naturally that way.

And it’s really easy to (33:43) think about how you’re going to work after you have a child, before you have the child, you know, (33:48) you think it’s not gonna be that big of a deal. And then you have this child and it is the biggest (33:51) deal in the world. It really, it’s hard.

And I was telling you this when we were talking the other (33:56) day, I, if Tom were sitting here, he would tell you that I am like a mama lion. I mean, I just, (34:02) that’s just, you know, mama bear, whatever you want to call me. I just instantly, as soon as I had (34:06) our first child, I thought, how am I ever going to leave this kid with anybody else to watch them? (34:13) And it was hard.

And, you know, what, what Tom and I kind of wrestled with was exactly what you’re (34:18) describing. You know, after we went from one child to three, because my second pregnancy was (34:24) these identical twin girls, we thought, you know, what in the heck are we going to do here? Does one (34:30) of us need to think about staying home? Who should stay home? And we, we talked about it. (34:36) At times we bickered about it, but we came to the conclusion that for our relationship and for, (34:43) you know, what was best for our family, it was really important for us to keep that balance.

So (34:47) we didn’t want one of us to stay home full-time while the other one worked full-time because we (34:52) were concerned that it would, you know, be breeding ground for potentially conflict or resentment or (34:59) one person feeling like they were bearing too much of one type of burden and missing out on (35:03) the other part. And both of us are such involved parents that neither of us wanted to give that up. (35:09) You know, neither of us wanted to say, okay, I’ll go work.

You do all the kid stuff and it’ll be (35:13) fine. Neither of us wanted to give that up. So we, we kind of got there through, I don’t know, (35:20) a lot of, a lot of just discussion and not always easy.

I mean, I think I was telling you that, (35:26) especially when everybody was little, we thankfully had my parents close by, which was a godsend, (35:32) especially after the twins were born. My parents were living in Saline and I just, I mean, my God, (35:39) Matt, we didn’t sleep for like at least a year, if not longer. I mean, you know, and my mom would come (35:45) on a Tuesday and she would stay two nights with us and it was like the biggest gift on the face (35:51) of the earth.

She would, she would kind of take care of all of us. And it was just so nice to have (35:56) a third set of hands. Cause we really, I mean, we had like three babies.

I was two and a half (36:00) when they were born. Oh my gosh. But you know, even though there were moments where it was hard (36:06) for us, it’s worked really well, but it was a very conscious decision that, you know, (36:10) we’re in this together.

We, neither of us are exempt from doing any of it. So whoever can run (36:16) to the grocery store is going to run to the grocery store. I tend to cook more because Tom (36:21) will tell you that my meals get better when I’m more stressed.

I think it’s how I like release (36:25) my stress, but we just, it works. They’re flavored with stress. Seriously.

And you know, (36:31) family dinner is always something that’s important to us. And we, I think one of the hardest times (36:37) was when we had three kids playing different travel sports and, you know, dividing and (36:42) conquering on weekends, who’s going to cover volleyball, who’s going to do soccer. Jack’s (36:46) going to go with whoever does soccer because he cannot be a year and a half inside of, you know, (36:51) like a big, huge volleyball tournament thing.

It’s just too much, but it’s worked for us. (36:57) It has not always been easy though, but that’s how we’ve done it. Well, and I always feel like, (37:01) you know, just kind of wrapping that piece of things up is there’s a humility too about you (37:06) where I don’t think anybody on those sidelines would know what it is that you’re doing.

(37:11) You know, I think you’ve got a really big job, obviously, what you do in your day job, but(37:19) it doesn’t feel like that’s your only identifier or that’s your main identifier. And so how(37:24) did that evolve, do you think? And is it challenging for you to keep that in stride? (37:30) Does the ego ever take over on you ever? Because it doesn’t seem like it. (37:35) God, I don’t, I mean, you probably have to ask other people.

I don’t think so. You know, I remember. (37:42) This is where we’ll get all the comments though from when we post this.

(37:48) I guess, you know, as I grew up as a leader, I think, (37:56) I don’t know, I think I find as you ascend as a leader, it’s actually more humbling than (38:02) anything else. And I really do think it’s my job to be of service to the people that I’m working (38:09) with. And I think especially with, you know, delivery of patient care, kind of staying in (38:15) touch with what’s happening on the ground at the places where your patients are receiving care (38:20) helps with that.

So in health care, I don’t, I don’t know. I just, I don’t think there’s a lot (38:27) of room for ego. I, you know, I tend to believe that the answers to really vexing problems (38:36) typically lie with the people that are closest to the work.

Part of that’s probably my performance (38:42) excellence training. I was trained, you know, through the whole Six Sigma Black Belt thing (38:46) as a part of my career growth and just really learned a lot about the difference between, (38:52) you know, really partnering with colleagues to solve hard problems versus, you know, either (38:57) telling them what the solution is or giving them artistic license to go figure it out, (39:02) but not supporting them along the way. So I just, I don’t know.

I think it’s probably (39:06) just part of how I’m lawyered though. I don’t know if I have… Did you have a good mentor (39:10) along the way that really stands out though in that, in that realm? So I’ve had, I’ve had (39:16) wonderful people that I’ve worked for. My first mentor that’s still my mentor, I was talking to (39:22) you about her the other day, Gwen McKenzie.

She’s retired now from Ascension, but she was my first (39:26) boss at the Detroit Medical Center. And she, I don’t know, I think the things I remember (39:34) admiring the most about Gwen early on, she stayed calm like all the time. She had this way of (39:41) disarming difficult situations just by listening and being herself.

And there was not an ounce of (39:48) ego in her, but just a class act. So she was outstanding. I worked, you know, the people that (39:56) I’ve worked with at Trinity have been just outstanding too.

And I think within Trinity, (40:02) the balance of, you know, everybody talks about family and taking care of your family. And it’s (40:08) just, it’s really a theme with everybody that I’ve worked with. And that, I don’t know.

I just, (40:13) I think part of our culture is we’re all in this together. You know, none of us are,(40:18) it takes an awful lot of really good, committed people to do this work. And so we got to stick (40:22) together on it.

We just do. That’s great. This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by (40:27) Auxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos.

Empowered by Juniper Networks. (40:33) Automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform. The world’s first AI-driven (40:38) wired and wireless network.

You know, in addition to Gwen, so I mean, obviously you come off as a (40:47) lifelong learner to me. I mean, I guess we don’t talk about who you’re reading or what podcasts (40:51) you’ve been listening to lately that have been kind of shaping your thoughts or maybe some of your(40:57) actions these days. But anything that you’ve been listening to or reading that’s been impactful? (41:03) Yeah.

I went to Simon Sinek recently. I tend to listen in the car because I’ve got a lot of (41:11) windshield time right now. Yeah.

And you know, there’s like, there’s a Becker’s podcast that’s (41:17) great to grab onto just to hear about kind of what’s happening. It’s pretty short and it’s very (41:22) informative. And who’s, what’s Becker’s all about? Becker’s, Scott Becker runs, have you, have you (41:27) seen his website? No.

Just a really good source of, that’s the middle school. Can we pause for one (41:35) second? Sure. Sorry.

Pause for middle school call. Yeah. Okay.

We had a quick little interruption (41:40) from the middle school, which is always the call we got to take. Yes. But everybody’s good, so that’s (41:45) good to hear.

So we were talking about just current influences, things you’re listening to. (41:52) And so we pulled up on the screen, this is the Becker’s, is that what you’re listening to? That’s (41:57) pretty neat. Becker’s healthcare podcast.

And there’s a newsletter that is sent out, I think (42:02) daily, I think. Well, he says he does, I just read he does four 15 minute podcasts a day. Yeah.

So (42:09) they’re very timely, but yeah, very quick. So you can kind of grab them when you can grab them, (42:13) which is great. So this is a good one if you’re interested in healthcare to listen to.

And then (42:19) you’re listening to some Simon Sinek. Yeah. And I had, I don’t, I just had not gotten around to (42:26) listening to, you know, I’ve seen Simon Sinek on Ted Talks, but just started listening to his (42:32) Start With Why book, which for me, it’s better to listen to than to read.

Yeah. It’s very good. (42:38) There’s a lot of repetition though.

And so it’s better for me to listen to it. Sure. You know, (42:42) why did I pick that one? I think as I’ve transitioned into this role and just kind of (42:48) thinking about some of the, the, the work that we’re advancing across Trinity and the, the, I (42:55) mean, I have a very strong desire to stay connected with our caregivers that do the work and just that (43:01) notion of, you know, being really clear on the why part of it.

It’s been, it’s been helpful to listen (43:06) to. Yeah. I can recommend it.

So I like one called Fixable with Frances Fry and Ann Morris is her (43:12) wife. And they, they, they do this podcast together. They’re not, they do video clips, but not the (43:18) whole thing on video.

But really great leadership stuff. And it’s, it’s, what’s interesting is I (43:25) never thought I was going to like it because it, because it’s from the academia side. It’s from (43:29) their, the Harvard folks.

Oh yeah. And so I thought, oh, this is going to be too, it’s going (43:33) to be too academic, too, too pre-prescribed, but the, the advice and the thoughts that they share (43:39) are just really spot on. So that’d be one that that I would recommend.

But I also just got done (43:45) listening to the Malcolm Gladwell’s Revenge of the, I can’t remember what it is, but really (43:53) interesting book. And a lot of it stems around a lot, a lot of talk about COVID, a lot of talk (44:00) about the opioid epidemic and just the data behind those, mind blowing. So really cool how the (44:11) over stories kind of helped to shape our thoughts, but then the data is very different.

It was really (44:18) interesting. So, you know, not a perspective that I, you know, that I would always follow, but (44:22) you know, I like to listen and read kind of all sorts of things to, you know, just to have the (44:29) balanced view of the world, if I can, if I can get as close to it as I can. I took a weird (44:34) departure and I listened to Dave Grohl’s narrated biography.

Yeah. Okay. Which was just something (44:41) I wouldn’t typically listen to.

And I thought, I’m just going to listen to this because it’s (44:45) something different. It was pretty interesting. The other one I’ve been following is a lot of (44:49) Craig Groeschel.

Do you know Craig Groeschel? Leadership podcast. I wrote a few books and (44:56) he’s a pastor of like a non-denominational church. And I, again, kind of one of those things where I(45:01) was like, I don’t know, what can I learn from this guy? Well, one, he’s, he, I believe he created, (45:06) he was the creator of the Bible app.

So he’s a, he’s a entrepreneur as well. But, you know, (45:13) they’ve got a thousand employees and I think 40 different campuses or something like that. (45:18) And so it’s like, oh no, actually, you know what, aside from just, aside from his pastoring side (45:23) of his life, he’s a really interesting, interesting leader and a lot of great stuff.

And (45:29) what I love about that is he has worksheets on every podcast that he does on his leadership (45:36) podcast. So when I’m driving, I don’t have to either, you know, like we talked about, (45:40) we pull over and take notes sometimes. You know, I don’t have to do that.

I don’t have to ask (45:45) Nadine like I usually do. Hey honey, can you please send me an email that says, you know, (45:48) this, this, this, and, you know, and then read her like some timestamp off of the podcast. (45:54) I can listen to it without being like encumbered by the thought of, I have to write this down (45:59) because I know that he’s got the notes.

So I really like that stuff too. So that’s, that’s, (46:04) that’s been some good stuff. The other good one for you to think about, have you heard of Rich (46:07) Sheridan? No, no.

He runs a company that’s based out in Ann Arbor and we’ve had. Oh yeah. The (46:15) Lincoln on the name of it.

Oh yeah. It’s like, oh darn it. Menlo.

Menlo Industries. Yeah. Yeah.

(46:22) And he does like tours and he wrote the book, but I, why can’t I, can you Google that for us, Jackie? (46:28) But he’s all about kind of running the experiment. Menlo. It’s just going to kill me if I don’t (46:35) remember what it is.

I know. I can see it’s something. M-E-N-L-O.

Separate word. (46:44) Rich Sheridan. Come on.

Where is this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, where is it? Menlo (46:50) Innovation. No, what’s the name of the book? Oh, just click on his name right there. Oh, there you (46:56) go.

Joy Inc. Yeah. Yeah.

I knew it was only a couple of words. We’ve read it. Yeah.

It’s, it’s (47:02) a great, I mean, that was great to listen to and just his, I, I love his theme of just run the (47:08) experiment, you know, because we, I don’t know, I, I really believe in just try it. Well, the (47:15) rubber has to meet the road, right? I mean, you can’t, you can’t talk about it for too long. You (47:19) have to go try it.

And you got to test it and see if it works. And if it doesn’t work, you can (47:22) always stop. But if it does work, then you can advance it even faster.

Sure. Sure. Yeah.

He was, (47:28) we had him at our Leader Development Institute last fall and he was just outstanding. Oh, (47:33) that’s cool. Great guy.

Well, we’ll definitely share some of his stuff here. Let’s talk, (47:36) I know we got to wrap up here pretty soon. But let’s talk about some of the things that you’re (47:42) working on, because I know that you’re, you’re a big proponent, proponent of access to care, (47:49) right? And then, and reducing the stigma around seeking care for certain things, especially (47:55) mental health type of things.

Can you talk about that? Can you talk about a couple of the (48:00) developments of what you guys are working on there? And then just some of your passion around (48:04) that. So, so access to care in general is, I think it’s, you know, so important. And so that (48:11) means within Trinity, Michigan, when you see us investing, we’re investing in community-based (48:17) locations, you know, our provider offices out in communities, less focus on inpatient care,(48:24) more focus on, are we reaching the folks that we want to be taking care of that need our care (48:29) in locations that are convenient for them? And I think there’s, you know, my, my current boss (48:38) says often we sell a product that no one wants to buy, which is so true, right? I mean, who gets (48:42) excited about going to see their physician or, you know, going to an emergency room? It’s, (48:47) this is more about necessity than it is about desire.

So I think part of our role is to make (48:55) that access as easy as we can and kind of meet people where they are. Kind of like, kind of like (49:00) IT. Nobody’s really, nobody really wants to buy.

Well, that’s not true. Different. But the, you (49:07) know, mental health services in particular is one area that, you know, the stigma that’s tied to (49:12) mental health is still significant.

Any data that you review on kind of mental health needs among (49:21) various age groups, older adults, our kids, you know, it’s just staggering. And so within Trinity, (49:30) we, we have, you know, we continue to kind of put a lot of effort into what are, what are we doing (49:35) to meet people where they are as it relates to access to mental health. So within our, (49:39) our physician practices in our medical group, IHA here in Southeast Michigan, we have something(49:45) called the collaborative care model.

And that means there’s a mental health provider. That’s (49:50) a part of our primary care offices. And I think I was telling you my, my mom sees an IHA physician.

(49:57) I don’t think she’d care if I shared this. I don’t think she will, but you know, she, (50:00) she was just kind of experiencing some stuff and she’s talking with her physician and her physician (50:05) said, you know, why don’t you think about talking to somebody? We have somebody right here. And she (50:10) ended up, you know, kind of taking advantage of that and stuck with it.

And I really think if (50:15) she would have had to go take a referral and schedule a separate appointment and go to a (50:20) different place, it just wouldn’t have happened. So to me, it normalized the experience of this (50:26) is just an extension of the care that I receive. I think the more of that, that we can do the (50:31) better because we can catch people early, perhaps when they need it and maybe avoid (50:36) things getting worse.

And then, you know, kind of at the other, the other end of the spectrum, (50:41) I was telling you the other day about the crisis unit that we developed in West Michigan in (50:45) partnership with Kent County and with Network 180, who’s the mental health provider out in (50:51) West Michigan. And that’s the three, that’s the hospital, the county and the mental health (50:57) provider. And it sits on the campus of the hospital, which is great, but it’s, it’s separate.

(51:03) It’s not inside of the emergency department. If you’ve ever been in an ER, you know, that, (51:08) you know, it’s kind of a chaotic environment and can sometimes make somebody that’s in a (51:13) mental health crisis can make it worse just because it’s overwhelming. So the space is (51:17) separate.

People can walk into it, they can be dropped off and we can evaluate patients for up (51:24) to 72 hours to see what they need. So does, you know, does the patient, can we stabilize here(51:28) and treat with medication and then help to support a transition to outpatient or (51:32) is an inpatient stay necessary? And did we, did you say that it’s, I know when we talked a couple(51:39) of weeks ago, you had talked about the goal is to perhaps reduce the need for, or the,(51:45) or the only option being inpatient, right? Because we talked about how obviously that can even set (51:51) somebody back too, right? Depends on what they need. Yeah.

So it’s, it’s kind of an in-between (51:56) place where, you know, it, you can hold and observe and interact with a patient to determine. So the (52:03) care team can figure out the best plan for them. And you’ve got three days to figure it out.

(52:08) Sure. Meaning three days, like where insurance covers it basically? (52:12) It is supported, but it’s, it’s more that the, the way that the licensing for the facility works, (52:17) you can hold for up to 72 hours. So it gives you some time to kind of, you know, to.

(52:22) It’s not instant like the, like the emergency department is let’s get you stabilized, (52:26) get you out or get you, get you admitted. Right. And get you out of there.

I mean, they’re, they’re, (52:31) they’re kind of a clearing house, right? Stabilize and move on and free themselves up for more of (52:37) that. So this gives that more of that time to work with the person because they might need to calm (52:41) down or they might need to adjust to the surroundings long enough before you can really (52:45) see what you’re, you know, what you’re really working with there. So we’re hoping to replicate (52:50) that on this side of the state as well.

We’ve, we’ve actually, a group of us just went over for (52:55) a visit a couple of months ago so that our colleagues in Oakland County could see, you know, (53:00) how this thing was stood up. And we’ve got wonderful collaborative relationships in (53:05) Southeast Michigan too, which is great. Great.

I don’t know if you knew this about me. I went (53:09) back to school before I started this company, went back to school to become a psychotherapist (53:15) and I, I abandoned it along the way, but, but it was a thought, you know, it was something that I (53:21) was always passionate about. And when I went back to school for it, I got all these 4.2, 4.3. My, (53:27) my parents were like, cool.

I was an adult then. And they said to them, so now, now that you’re, (53:31) now that you’re going back, now you get good grades. Cause I was not that type of student, (53:35) but I was very passionate about it.

So the topic of mental health topic of psychology always (53:41) really gets me going. So I love, I love hearing that you’re making a difference. Now is the goal (53:46) then to create another version of this? Is this kind of like, let’s create this and then template (53:51) it out and move it to other locations? That’s what, you know, that’s, that’s the work that (53:55) we’re advancing now.

We, we think, you know, with, as long as the right partners in a community can (54:03) come together to stand something like this up, we think it’s pretty effective. It’s not the only (54:07) solution. It’s kind of one step in the care continuum for this population, you know, of (54:12) patients.

So I think outpatient care is critically important. I think that collaborative care model (54:18) is important. Crisis units are important.

And then we’re also building, we’re a joint venture owner (54:26) in a freestanding inpatient hospital out in West Michigan as well. So that, you know, cause we (54:30) continue to hear that we don’t have adequate inpatient beds for patients either. So it’s, (54:36) you know, this is an area of focus for us.

We’re just expanding outpatient access in our Chelsea (54:41) community. So it’s, you know, kind of across Michigan where we’re assessing what’s needed, (54:46) where, and, and trying really hard to figure out how, how we can be a part of the solution (54:51) for our community. So that’s one.

What is this 2025, the emergency department? (54:57) Oh, so at Trinity Health Oakland, we are in the process of rebuilding the ER. We’ve that, (55:04) we’ve outgrown that ER and then some, and one of the components, there will be a nine bed (55:10) behavioral medicine kind of unit within the ER. So it’ll be, you know, safe for patients that are (55:18) in experiencing a psychiatric crisis or in a mental health crisis, kind of quiet, soothing (55:24) space, not within the main part of the ER.

So really dedicated space to care for that population (55:29) because as we’ve continued to assess need the need continues to be there. So that’s another (55:35) good benefit that we’re bringing. Yeah.

Great. Great. What else should we be talking about? (55:41) Well, you know, the, the other thing the other thing I’m really proud of our investment in this (55:48) notion of food is medicine and the farm programs that we have.

So our, our first farm started at (55:55) Ann Arbor campus in 2010 and Ann Arbor hospital sits on, I think it’s 300 acres of land. So (56:02) there’s a significant chunk of land that, you know, where hoop houses sit and food is grown (56:07) and kind of the farm program was born out of Ann Arbor. And that’s where we started developing (56:15) partnerships with other, you know, local area farmers to, you know, to purchase produce from (56:21) them, to help fill farm share boxes, to bring produce to patients, all that kind of stuff.

(56:25) We’ve since expanded our farm programs. We’ve got one at Trinity health, Oakland, and actually one (56:30) out at Trinity health, Muskegon. And we have this farm share program going strong in both locations.

(56:38) And we’ve started to introduce the farm share program at our Livonia hospital as well, which (56:43) we started with farm share at Oakland before we actually started. Who’s the front? Well, I guess (56:48) is the food, is there something specifically special about it? Is it organic or something? (56:52) We do. We partner with organic farmers and so we don’t grow everything.

Some of the stuff we grow, (56:56) we put in our farm share boxes, but we also, what is a farm share box? So you can, you can (57:01) purchase a farm share through the Trinity health farm program. You can buy either a summer share, (57:07) a summer and a fall share. You can do a year long share and you get, you know, and read, (57:12) you purchase this, this share and you get a box of produce every week.

(57:18) Oh, okay. Is it delivered to you or do you have to go pick it up at the hospital? (57:21) Okay. Pick it up at the farm, I should say.

And we donate a certain number of (57:27) farm share boxes every year. We also take WIC and SNAP. So patients that have those, (57:34) you know, those programs available to them can use those dollars to support their farm share.

(57:39) We just added a food pantry at Oakland this year that, you know, anybody can come in and (57:44) take whatever they need. So we, we continue to leverage, you know, healthy food as a, (57:50) as a reason for people to come and gather and take the opportunity to educate and continue (57:56) to kind of build relationships with the community. And, you know, in Pontiac, I was, (58:01) I was in the president role at our Pontiac hospital when we started the farm there.

(58:05) And Pontiac is considered a food desert, which by definition means that there’s, you know, (58:11) inadequate access to fresh produce within a certain geography. And I just found that so (58:18) curious that in Oakland County, a big city like Pontiac could be considered a food desert. (58:22) Yeah.

But I mean, I guess, as I think about it, I can’t think of a grocery store. (58:26) Exactly. So, you know, we knocked down a tower on Oakland’s campus when I was in the president role.

(58:33) We had this acre and a half of open land. And I met the person that was running the farm at (58:39) Ann Arbor. And I said, we got to do something out here.

Like, you know, our community needs (58:43) assessment is telling us that, you know, access to fresh food is an issue. We know that Pontiac’s (58:49) a food desert. And I just felt that a visible statement of our commitment to this would be (58:56) really important to the community.

So, you know, right before COVID hit, which who would have known (59:01) that COVID was coming, we said, OK, we’re going to start this and we’re going to start with a (59:06) cover crop of, I think it was rye. So all this rye goes down and then the world shuts down. Right.

(59:12) And, you know, we’re going into work every day. We’re still going to the hospital every day. (59:15) And this cover crop of rye is getting taller and taller and taller to the point where I was (59:22) out with one of my colleagues and he stepped into the middle of it and I couldn’t see him.

(59:26) And I remember saying, OK, guys, we have got to do something different here because now it (59:30) looks like we’ve given up hope. This looks like an abandoned field. And so, you know, the blight, (59:35) the blight committee.

It did look like. So we just kind of started from there and we (59:40) framed the border of the farm and we planted just a couple of beds of whatever. Did you use that (59:46) rye for anything? I don’t know.

I’ll have to find out. It’s OK. I don’t know.

If I never find the (59:54) answer, it’s OK. Well, you know me, I’ll probably find out and tell you. But now we’ve got two hoop (59:59) houses on this acre and a half.

We’ve got a walking path out there. We have a beautiful covered (1:00:04) pavilion and it’s just. Can people volunteer their time at this as well? Yes.

Yes. So on our website, (1:00:09) which we should bring up and share. Yeah, we’ll definitely do that.

You can sign up to volunteer. You can sign up to buy a farm share. (1:00:14) You can.

But it’s it’s I don’t know. That’s fantastic. It’s a really bright spot, you know, because you(1:00:20) think about, again, going to a hospital feels scary and not like something you want to do.

And then you (1:00:25) see this beautiful outdoor space for people. We have a cut flower garden so anybody can go out there (1:00:30) and cut flowers. Oh, beautiful.

Take flowers to patients and, you know, sometimes give flowers (1:00:35) to staff. Where are you spending most of your time? I mean, are you between all the different hospitals (1:00:40) pretty much daily or do you have a home base? Weekly, I would say. My home base office is still(1:00:46) at Oakland, but I’m out and about a lot, which is good.

And it’s nice because that same (1:00:53) feeling that I talked to you about, it’s evident at every one of our locations. It’s wonderful. I (1:00:58) mean, the kindness and that family feeling when you walk into one of our places is (1:01:04) alive and well.

That’s fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, this was great. I feel like we learned a lot about (1:01:09) you. We learned a lot about a lot about your mission, a lot about your hospital and the (1:01:14) entire group.

So good. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me.

All right. Always good to spend time (1:01:19) with you. Likewise.

Take care. Thanks.