(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions, and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

We are here with the most recent episode of the (0:44) BLTNT podcast, where we’re talking about business, life, technology, and transformations. (0:50) And I’ve got Brian Holowaty here, who’s the founder of Los Angeles Brands, and been a good (0:57) friend for a lot of years, which makes us feel old if I was to say years. Good to see you, Matt.

(1:05) We earned this episode because all we did is screwed around with technical issues for about (1:11) 30 minutes prior to making this thing happen. We have it fixed now. We should be good.

(1:18) Yes, that’s right. You deserve this podcast. (1:24) I’ve always admired what Brian has done.

He’s always been a trailblazing entrepreneur, (1:31) even when we were younger. We’re still young, so when we were younger. (1:36) That’s right.

(1:37) But he’s really built an impressive lineup of a whole portfolio of brands that are in the (1:46) personal health care, personal hair care, personal… What do you call it? Personal (1:50) wellness space? What do you call it? Yeah, health and beauty. (1:53) Health and beauty. H and B. (1:55) Right? Is that how we talk about it in the industry? (1:57) Yeah.

HBA, yeah. (2:00) HBA. Okay, that’s going to make me sound smart someday in front of somebody.

(2:05) But it’s been a journey to get here from working at the boat hardware store with me in the back, (2:12) stocking shelves, to doing a quasi-rave party that you hosted to hear you are at the top of (2:22) the world. Thank you. Welcome.

I’m so glad you’re here. (2:29) Great to be here, Matt. I’ve been watching all the episodes and it’s an honor to be here.

(2:35) You and three other people. I mean, it’s great. (2:39) It’s been cool to see.

(2:41) Good. Thanks. Thanks.

So let’s kind of start off on the B track here, on the business track here. (2:50) You’ve got kind of a really interesting… I think it’s a neat niche. White Space Beauty.

Is that… (2:59) Yeah. Yeah. So we really set out to kind of reinvent how brands are built.

The traditional (3:04) model brands are, it takes about nine to 12 months to launch a brand. And then hopefully (3:11) at that point you can sell it into retail or sell it online direct to consumer. (3:16) We kind of reinvented the model and we said, Hey, what if we could go meet with retail buyers,(3:21) sit down directly with them and find out where the opportunities are.

Find out where the white (3:26) space is at those categories. So we would sit across from the retail buyers and they would tell (3:34) us, Hey, we’re under indexed on this category in say men’s products that have tea tree, that are (3:40) 32 ounce in size. And they would kind of give us the data, what’s working, what’s not working in (3:46) the category.

At which point then we would go back, use our own data from TikTok, from Amazon, (3:53) from Nielsen data, and then come back to them with a brand concept. Now the brand concept would be a (3:59) PowerPoint, a beautiful PowerPoint with like photo realistic images and then lab samples of the (4:04) actual product. And we secured upfront purchase orders from these retailers.

And these retailers (4:12) are TJ Max’s of the world, Nordstrom Rack, Ross, Burlington, Macy’s. And then at that point we (4:20) would ship products to the retailers, usually multiple at once. At the same time we would (4:26) launch on Amazon at a premium.

And so what happens if these are new brands that someone would see the (4:33) brand in store on a retail shelf and they hadn’t heard of it. So they would go to Amazon and see (4:38) that it was priced double, twice as high. And they’re like, Oh my God, I’m getting a great value.

(4:43) And on Amazon, there’s really good reviews. This is a great product. I’m getting a great deal.

They (4:48) would buy it that day. Well, over time… People that are buying that on Amazon, they’re just paying more (4:53) because they’re not in the discount retailer. That’s right.

And they’re leaving the reviews (4:58) saying, Hey, this hair care product is amazing. Correct. Hopefully they leave that review.

(5:06) Amazon’s very democratic, right? So good brands rise up and brands that aren’t very good(5:11) die. And that’s what we love about Amazon. So when we built a new brand, we would (5:18) do the Vine program.

So we’d launch on Amazon. The Vine program basically guarantees that you’ll get (5:23) 30 reviews. It doesn’t guarantee there’ll be 30 good reviews.

So like I said, it’s very democratic (5:29) and you see what works and what doesn’t work. Nine times out of 10, the products that we built (5:34) worked pretty well. We did 4.3, 4.5 stars.

So someone would have that social proof (5:41) when they’re in store along with a really good value. And so what that did is… (5:46) The buyer behavior though too, right? I mean, if I’m going into a TJ Maxx, (5:50) when I look at that sticker that says, you can find it for $29.99, but you’re buying it for $11.99. (5:58) So how great that feels. But I’m still double checking that online to say, Hey, am I getting (6:04) a real deal? And you’re not alone.

Most people do. And what’s cool about that is the buyers (6:11) were really pleased with that strategy. It drove retail sales because it showed such a good value.

(6:18) Many times, they usually ask for 30 to 40% of a discount. Ours many times were 50%,(6:25) half of half off. And so they were really great value.

And what happens is over time, (6:33) the retailer would place reorders, maybe, maybe not. Sometimes they’ve moved on to other products, (6:39) other brands that we would create for them. But over time, the consumers, when you run out of (6:45) that shampoo or that body wash, it’s sometimes easier instead of going into store, you just (6:50) reorder on Amazon.

Even at a full price, it’s still sometimes easier and more convenient. (6:57) How they fell in love with the brand, essentially. (7:00) Exactly.

So over time, the brand and the lifetime value of the customer, it moved over to Amazon (7:08) over time. And so we were able to really build the brand on Amazon. And the MVP, (7:16) Minimum Viable Product, was kind of getting products in hands.

(7:21) And everybody’s still happy in that model because the buyer, meaning the purchasing person at (7:27) T.J. Maxx, you were helping them fill a void in their shelves on a product that they needed (7:33) anyway. They have, hey, I’m below market on this particular category, so I know I need something to (7:41) fill it. You’re coming to them, filling it.

So now they’re performing at industry level, (7:48) some sort of higher industry level, I’m assuming. (7:52) True, true. Yeah, it really was a win, win, win.

The consumers got great products, the buyers were (7:59) happy, and of course, we were happy. And what’s nice about those retailers, they were able to (8:05) place pretty large orders, 5,000, 10,000, 20,000 pieces at a time. And so for a small company like (8:12) us, that offsets, that helps us meet MOQs, minimum order quantities, and it really gets us in the (8:19) game with each category.

And then, like I said, over time on Amazon, we built the brand. We do (8:26) small bit of advertising on Amazon, but we weren’t doing the heavy lifting that other typical beauty (8:34) brands are doing, like heavy in pay-per-click advertising, influencer marketing. We didn’t (8:40) have to do any of that in the early days.

So how has the model evolved for you here? (8:49) Well, we launched in COVID, right before COVID, we launched three brands, 17 SKUs, (8:58) and that was when it was a pretty big launch of like three different brands, 17 SKUs (9:04) across five different retailers. And at that point, we shipped all of these products in February of (9:11) 2020. And then the world shut down.

And I was like, oh my God, this is how it’s going to end. (9:18) It’s really bad. I mean, I had accounts receivable, but who knows when you’re going to get paid at (9:23) that time.

Nobody had answers to anything. So it was kind of a dicey period, but lo and behold, (9:29) things opened back up. These were essential categories.

So our buyers called me with (9:36) exciting news. They’re like, hey, double the order, double the past order. And oh, by the way, (9:40) can you create a kid’s brand for us? Can you create a pet brand for us? And they were giving us just (9:47) massive opportunities.

And so we really grew at that point. And so in a couple of short years, (9:53) we grew to six brands and 135 products. And we did this all with a very lean and scrappy team.

(10:01) So it’s only a team of three that created all this. And I say that, but really we have contractors, (10:10) we have designers, our factories are really an extension, our labs and contract manufacturers (10:15) are really an extension of our company. So it does take a greater team, but the core team is very (10:22) lean.

And you’ve mentioned that this is a hyper local supply chain too, which allows you to stay (10:29) lean in the organization directly with you, but then to have these, to kind of have all these (10:35) extensions around you that are very closely located to actually produce the products, right?(10:42) That’s been a blessing. Honestly, I, as you know, Matt, I’ve been to China a bunch in my early in (10:49) my career, over 30 times to China and global sourcing background. When we created Los Angeles (10:56) brands, we really set out to do hyper local.

These are products that go on the body. It’s (11:03) really important. Quality control is paramount.

And it was really important, like you said, (11:08) to be able to drive to our partners, go see how the products are made, really share our vision. (11:14) You know, when we first started, no one would entertain our orders even they’re like, okay, (11:20) yeah, bless your heart. You know, come back when you’re grown up.

Nice little pat on the head. (11:26) Yeah. And we got a lot of that, you know, minimum order is 25K and lo and behold, (11:32) like our model, we had to kind of finesse how things were done.

We weren’t able to do (11:38) 25,000, 50,000 piece orders like some of the bigger brands. So we had to really sell our (11:44) vision on where we’re going. Like, hey, we can give you depth or breadth of brands and we can (11:49) give you a lot of orders, but they’re going to be 5,000 piece orders, 7,500 piece orders.

(11:54) And so we had to really work closely with our vendor partners. So to be able to drive,(12:00) you know, 20 minutes or 30 minutes and go sit down with them and really get to know them. (12:06) That’s been a key part of the business.

(12:09) Yeah, that’s awesome. (12:10) And, you know, proud to say we’re made locally too. (12:14) It’s made in the USA.

I mean, is that, (12:18) do all the chemicals actually come from here or is it assembled here? How does that work? (12:22) Not necessarily. There are some ingredients, exotic ingredients that come from around the world, (12:27) but they’re all secured through our partners here in Los Angeles.(12:34) Okay.

(12:35) And then other, you know, other components like our bottles. Yeah, (12:39) they’re blow molded a mile from where they’re filled. And so, I mean, super, super local.

So (12:45) blow molded a mile from where they’re filled, then they’re filled and then shipped nationally (12:48) and now internationally as well. (12:51) Wow. Wow.

So you feel good about the products then going on to your own, your own family, (12:57) right? If you’re, if you’re… (12:58) I do. (12:59) …washing your kids with this stuff, right? (13:02) I really do. And consumers now more than ever, you know, they need transparency.

So it’s all (13:09) about transparency, what’s in the product, what’s not in the product. So you really have to be very (13:16) transparent online on the packaging, on the label, et cetera. And that’s just a value that we embrace.

(13:25) It’s good for everyone. (13:28) That’s great. (13:29) And that bar, by the way, is always moving.

We’re always trying to get more, more, (13:34) more clean ingredients, more sustainable packaging, et cetera. So it’s, it’s continuous improvement. (13:42) And your, your buyer’s just so ultra educated, right? The buyer of today’s (13:46) versus the buyer of 20% (13:48) Oh my God.

(13:49) Completely different. (13:49) Which is, which is awesome. Which is awesome.

(13:52) Yeah. (13:53) Yeah. And they’re educated and then they’re, they’re socially connected, right? (13:58) Yep.

(13:58) So they’re learning about products, you know, some of our best salespeople now are, are consumers (14:04) just sharing it with friends, right? (14:07) Well, it’s interesting, like the market economy, right? How that, (14:10) it’s almost like the market economy, you know, is, or the, you know, the market is driving (14:18) the transparency, the market is driving and demanding the cleaner products. The market (14:23) is driving and demanding, you know, this level of excellence and saying, you know what, I know (14:28) that I can go to dollar general and I can buy a, you know, unnatural. I mean, you may have (14:34) made mobile by the natural stuff there, but I’m just picking on dollar general, I guess.

(14:37) Yeah. (14:38) Any retailer, you can go to any retailer, national, national retailer, and you can buy (14:42) a discount brand that doesn’t say any of these things on the label. And, you know,(14:48) it’s half the price possibly, or, or, or less.

And as long as you’re okay with that, you know, (14:54) there’s a, there’s a, there’s an ask for every seat, right? (14:58) True. No, it is true. And the trend I’m seeing though, is taking prestige products.

(15:05) And this is what we’ve done. We’ve done this over the past couple of years, (15:09) take prestige products and create them for the mass market. So not everyone can afford to shop(15:17) at Sephora or Ulta and, and, but they still care about clean ingredients.

They still want beautiful (15:23) packaging and they want performance. And that’s where we’ve been able to, we’ve been able to do (15:29) that by really kind of being, I always say supply chain ninjas, but really focus on trimming the fat (15:38) on, and, you know, we don’t have a bloated team of a hundred people, you know, we’re lean and mean, (15:43) and we pass those savings on.(15:47) You know, you know, our friend Ingmar who owns Marlowe Beauty.

(15:51) Yes. (15:51) He always says that the, there’s a commonality in all the products sold, whether it’s a discount (15:56) product or an expensive product. And it’s the first ingredient is water.

And the second ingredient, (16:02) you know what that is? (16:03) What’s that? (16:04) Marketing. It doesn’t matter. (16:08) Or the cheapest brand.

They’re all, they all have that, that similar chemical makeup. (16:13) Yeah. (16:14) Something you’ve been working on that really kind of spans the whole (16:19) technology transformations and everything.

And I definitely wanted you to talk about (16:22) your family. So we’ll talk about life in here in a minute, but I’m going to (16:25) kind of jump around because it really is intriguing me that the new way that you’re (16:32) selling, you know, with live selling, TikTok shopping, kind of a QVC style business to (16:40) consumer swipe to buy. Can you explain more of this? Because it is just so radically different (16:50) than radically different models that it’s just, it’s, it’s blowing my mind.

(16:55) Radically different. I mean, I have to tell you, you know, I’ve been, (17:00) I’ve been proud of the model we built, you know, over the past couple of years. I’m like, (17:04) you know, you know, when you, when you, you achieve some goals, you’re like, okay, I’m, (17:09) I’m proud of what we built.

I had a big realization about six months ago. I’m like, (17:14) we’ve built all these brands with a very lean team, 135 products. But the truth was (17:20) that our brands didn’t have a soul, if that makes sense.

So we were building, building, building, (17:27) building, getting stuff out, check, checking a lot of boxes. But the only thing that’s important (17:35) is how connected we are to our community. And the consumers and the real conversations we’re (17:42) having with consumers, the content that we’re sharing with consumers, the education, all these (17:49) things, we were doing none of that.

And that was something that over the past year, I began to (17:55) really look at it and be like, we need to pivot. We need to completely pivot. (18:01) That’s what you’re saying.

I mean, when you, that makes a lot of sense to me, (18:04) because when you talked about the whole, creating those products and that the product, (18:11) it may fill a category gap for them for this year, quarter, whatever, but they may not continue that, (18:17) that on. And so it’s almost like you’re right. The order, the order, (18:21) a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

So you’re almost honoring the brand that you create, (18:26) right? I mean, Hey, I’ve put all this work into this brand. It means something to you. And it’s (18:33) like, and it could die on the vine under the original business model.

You know, if, if left (18:39) alone, this is your way of, Hey, I build brands as well as, you know, it’s almost like I build (18:46) great products, you know, and, and, and great brands. Yes. Yes.

And, and that was a big (18:54) realization. And so it was one of those one of those realizations where I’m like, we, we need (19:01) to do less and do it better and be more methodical and really invest in, in the brands that we have. (19:09) So I put, I put a bit of a pause on new product development while we focus on content creation, (19:17) on community building, affiliate marketing, all, all of these things.

So, and these are, (19:23) these are traditional playbooks of most brands. It’s just, we weren’t, we weren’t doing them (19:28) because of our business model. And so here comes TikTok shop, you know, it TikTok shop has, (19:36) I would say it’s one of the biggest changes in this decade.

I mean, it’s, it’s, and believe it (19:43) or not, it’s been around, you know, for a while now, but it’s still early, early days and it’s, (19:48) it’s absolutely changing the game. And the reason why it’s now, like we’ve talked about content, (19:55) content is everything. And what TikTok shop allows, it allows a truly win-win situation (20:03) for brands, brands like mine, I can sell basically using content creators.

So we can, (20:11) we can basically give away free samples to affiliates. And these are content creators who (20:17) are people could be, you know, let’s say a stay at home mom who wants to make extra money. (20:22) She may shoot videos, request samples from brands like us, shoot videos of our product, (20:28) and then add our product to her videos.

So she does this cool video with her kid, (20:34) washing her hair, using our products and then swipe up to buy. When someone buys that product (20:41) through her video, she automatically gets a predetermined commission that we set as a brand, (20:47) if that makes sense. So now.

So it’s just, it’s just basically the affiliate marketing (20:52) model on steroids in terms of the speed to conversion to say, you know, in a regular video, (20:59) I could say, Hey, Brian, you know, you really should use this, this hair care product. I’m (21:02) joking with my hair. I could be, I could be, I could be promoting hair care product for you here, (21:08) but then the user, what they would have to do is go back to their computer, Google it, (21:12) or maybe find a BLTNT podcast episode where there’s a link to it.

But this is like real time (21:18) Johnny on the spot. You’re watching the video, swipe up, buy it. It’s in your cart.

It’s on (21:23) its way. Right. Frictionless affiliates been paid completely frictionless.

Yeah. And that that’s, (21:30) that’s the beauty of this whole thing. So a brand and it’s very democratic too.

Like (21:36) you don’t have to be a large brand with huge budgets and that’s always been the limiting factor (21:43) is advertising. You can send $50 worth of product to an influencer. They use it and it’s essentially (21:52) free to you almost, I mean, 50 bucks, but you’re not managing some, you know, PPC campaign or (21:58) anything like that.

He’s putting it on her. The example you gave of the, of the, of the (22:03) woman with the, you know, with the TikTok account and video content creation, it’s low cost. (22:13) I’ll give you an example.

It can be literally life-changing for a brand and life-changing for (22:19) that same creator. I spoke with a friend of a friend and this quote always sticks out to me. (22:25) It’s like, if you cannot see where you’re going, ask someone who’s been there before.

I’ve been (22:30) doing that over the past year. I’ve been talking to brands, big brands who are succeeding on the (22:34) platform. I have a few mentors in the space who are kind of guiding me.

And I spoke with a friend (22:40) of a friend who owns a brand last week, and they’re doing north of 30 million on TikTok shop (22:46) as, as a platform. It’s significant. Is this the, this is the, I can’t, no, it’s a brand.

(22:54) This is the brand, not the, not the affiliate themselves. (22:57) It’s the brand. Okay.

It’s the brand. And how many affiliates do you think they’re, (23:03) they’re, they’re working with? I think they’re north of probably 10,000 now. Okay.

So massive, (23:09) massive. Okay. And so they, they had one creator last year who did over a million dollars (23:17) in, in sales and at, you know, 20 to 25% commission that creator.

I mean, it had a (23:25) very significant run. Wow. And, and that’s what’s possible.

So what’s interesting, (23:30) let’s just say one video, let’s say, you know, you’re, you’re doing things at scale and you’re (23:35) sending out thousands of samples a month or hundreds of samples a month. These creators (23:40) are then doing videos for those. So what’s amazing is those videos live on, they live on forever.

(23:46) So those are, it’s work that you didn’t have to do as a company and it’s truly organic content. (23:54) Like you said, it’s not all perfect. It’s not production quality, but that doesn’t matter (23:58) nowadays.

Imperfection is perfection. And what’s cool is that once, once those videos are out there, (24:06) let’s say one video takes off and goes viral. What’s interesting, if that video goes viral, (24:12) then the brand, that, that person’s getting paid the entire time.

If the video goes viral, (24:18) the brand then creates spark ads, TikTok spark ads, and advertises that video to (24:23) accelerate even more. And that creator keeps making more and more and more. (24:27) So it can live on and on and on.

And it can just, I mean, it can be life-changing for creators and (24:34) give me a prediction on kind of the macro effect of this. You know, like if I’m, (24:41) if, if I’m a brick and mortar store, am I quaking in my boots right now for any reason? Or, or (24:49) what’s, what’s going to be the biggest disruption? Who’s going to, obviously I’m hearing that the (24:54) brands and especially small brands and affiliates are really going to monetize this, right? So those (25:03) are some of the winners. Who’s some of the losers if they don’t, if they don’t jump on the, (25:07) jump on the train? I think some of the, I think the, the small brands are going to rise very (25:16) quickly.

And I think it, I think it’s going to allow more, more brands to be out there and to (25:24) succeed. I think some of the large brands, the, the big P&Gs and Unilevers and consumers now (25:32) just have such a choice and they have such, you know, amazing content from, from all over (25:39) people. There’s just, you know, they’re not relying, consumers are not relying on the (25:44) traditional methods, advertising, advertising.

And it’s just now, I think it’s just all about (25:50) content. So they’re, they’re seeing, and they’re getting exposed to new, more new brands constantly. (25:57) So I think, I think the larger brands are going to take a big hit.

(26:03) What other negative effects you’re saying, you’re asking? (26:06) I’m just saying, who are the winners, losers? What are the pluses and minuses of a, you know, (26:10) of kind of a, you know, a disruption in, in how we, you know, how we might purchase and how we (26:16) might market, how this all kind of, you know, give me the, give me the view from your perspective (26:21) of where it might be going. (26:23) Yeah. So I, I really think, I think affiliates are going to be, they’re going to continue to, (26:30) to do well.

Like I think everyday people will, every people will be focused on content creation. (26:38) I think B2B businesses, even it’s not just selling products, it’s B2B businesses as well. (26:46) Putting short form content out there to attract leads, email signups, having funnels, (26:55) you know, using TikTok, using Instagram.

Matt, do you know what many, many chat is on Instagram? (27:01) I don’t. (27:02) Where it’s someone does a video and then they say comments, (27:05) Matt, in the comments, and then they’ll, they’ll start you on a, on a sales funnel. (27:11) Okay.

I didn’t know what that was called. I mean, I do it all the time. (27:14) It’s automated.

It’s all automated. (27:16) So I think, I think all hours of the day to respond to me, you know, discipline, (27:22) one of the fitness guys posts. (27:26) No, I think things like that are, are incredible just for, for B2B.

I saw someone the other day (27:33) who refinished his cabinets. It just came up on my feed and he repaints kitchen cabinets. And it’s (27:40) one of those satisfying videos to watch when you see someone just transform a whole kitchen (27:45) in minutes.

And there’s, I mean, this is a painter, right? Who, who is able to (27:51) just create this fascinating content that people love watching. (27:56) And now that’s exactly what you want me to talk. I don’t remember the guy’s name, (27:59) but I know it’s lead generation for him.

And so I think, I think talk about winners. (28:05) I want to paint them every, every day that I see them. (28:08) Right.

And this is, you know, a painter who is busy painting. They’re not doing (28:13) pay-per-click advertising and they’re not doing affiliate, you know, they’re, (28:17) they’re not doing any of those models. They’re just showing their beautiful craft.

And I think (28:22) that to me is the coolest thing in the world to take and, and, and show someone the magic of a (28:28) business visually. Man, I hope, I hope what you could do is, is take and show us some of the (28:35) production and some of what goes into the creating of your brands. And I think that would be great (28:39) just to see, you know, to know that how good does that feel when you’re talking about, you know, (28:44) a clean supply chain, USA made going, Hey, that’s the guy that makes the soap that I wash my little (28:50) kids with, you know, like totally, you can do a video showing that of your factory.

That’s five (28:56) miles down the road from you. You know, like you said, you can show, you can show the bottle (29:01) being blow molded, you know, it’s funny that you say that. And this is, you know, in full (29:10) transparency, I, for, for many years, I didn’t want to be out there in public, meaning showing, (29:18) you know, this whole idea of like build it in public.

I was kind of, I would say intimidated (29:22) by it being in front of the camera or, or like doing short form content over the past couple (29:29) of years. And, and just in the past 12 months, I’m like, that is exactly what you just asked. (29:34) I’ve heard, I’ve talked to so many people and they’re like, show me, yeah, show me the operation.

(29:39) Like, you know, we would love to learn more. And, and so we’ve been, we’ve been doing that. And I (29:44) think that’s going to be a key part of everything moving forward is, you know, we are, you know, (29:49) family owned small business, like, Hey, here’s, here’s the manufacturer, here’s our chemist, (29:55) you know, who’s working on our new development and all that stuff.

I even, I shot a video of me, (30:00) I’m wearing a hairnet at, at the factory a couple of weeks ago, like when a new production run was (30:08) coming off the line. Very cool. And so I’ll be doing more of that in the future.

So can you (30:13) see that? Okay. Yeah. So, so I’m on the Los Angeles brands website here and just on the, (30:19) just on the main page.

And so, you know, this is a, how old is the company? (30:27) Um, technically seven years. Okay. So seven years, we’re talking really four years ago when (30:33) we really started going heavy into the, so, so keeping that in mind, think about that if you’re (30:40) watching this, right.

Is this is a seven-year-old brand and look at, look at the way the products (30:45) show up, right. This shows up like a L’Oreal or Max Factor, Maybelline. See, I, I don’t wear the, (30:52) the, the makeup, but I know a little bit about it.

Um, but like, I mean, look at, look at how (30:58) that shows up and with the, you know, and I don’t know all these chemicals or, or these, uh, you (31:04) know, these, um, uh, essential oils or whatever these are, but, you know, you’ve got it advertised (31:09) right on the front of the bottle. Um, they look great. Right.

I, I am a customer. I’m a non-paying (31:17) affiliate customer of the, um, Frankie and Paisley brand here. My dog has been washed in, uh, in all (31:24) of these, uh, items right here, including fanny foam, which is disgusting to talk about, but it, (31:30) but it does work.

My wife can attest to it. I, I, I have a strong gag reflex, so I can’t, I can’t (31:38) excuse. Yeah.

It served me well. Good excuse. Yeah.

It’s funny, Matt, you say that. Um, I, (31:47) I really appreciate your compliments on the brands and, and, um, what’s interesting is that we, you (31:54) know, a very, very small team, so we’re doing everything and that’s the Shopify website that (31:59) you’re staring at right now. Like yours truly created it.

So like I, we, we do, we truly do (32:06) everything. Like I, I concept a lot of the ideas out and then get them to our designer who does a (32:12) lot of the other stuff, but like things like website design and, and pitch decks and all (32:18) these things. I mean, a lot of it we’re, we’re doing, I’m doing a bulk of it as well.

So it’s (32:23) like as much as, you know, we’ve, we’ve grown, we’re still, we’re still lean and mean. So that, (32:30) that part hasn’t changed. Yeah.

This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, (32:37) business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, (32:42) automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform. The world’s first AI driven (32:47) wired and wireless network.

Um, I want to switch gears a little bit here. Uh, you had mentioned (32:54) something and I think, you know, you, you and I both have known this about each other and anybody (32:58) who’s, you know, watched any of our episodes knows that, you know, I’m a big proponent of the, (33:04) of the peer, um, you know, one seeking out mentors. Um, and I talk about a few of them that, (33:10) that I, that I talk to often also the, the peer mentorship or the peer group and, um, you know,(33:16) going to people who have been down the road that you want to be down.

And, um, you kind of talked (33:21) about this with me, um, many different times, you know, about the, you know, why a peer group (33:28) right. You know, I need to be more challenged. You know, what am I, what am I, what are my blind (33:33) spots? So you’ve always kind of had that, um, you know, I would call that like that, that humble (33:39) humility piece where it’s like, uh, Hey, I know I don’t know everything, but talk to me, what have (33:44) you been involved in, in whether it’s like a Vistage or a YPO or an EO or are you, you’re doing (33:50) that still? Am I correct? Yes, I am.

Um, and I, I think that’s been a huge benefit as an (33:58) entrepreneur. I’ve gotten so much, so much out of it. It started what four years ago.

I joined five (34:04) years ago now it’s called the UCLA Anderson, the business school CEO forum. And it was a monthly (34:10) forum. Nine of us each, each month we’d meet for about six hours, talk about business challenges, (34:17) opportunities, many of it.

Um, many of the, uh, situations were personal to how, you know, (34:24) balancing personal life as an entrepreneur, all of these things. And that peer group was like (34:29) extremely important to me over the years. And I learned a ton.

I then left that group about a (34:36) year ago and joined EO EO’s, uh, entrepreneurs organization. And it’s, uh, chapters in, (34:42) I think 60 or 70 countries around the world. It’s, it’s a bigger group.

Um, and the standards to get (34:49) in are a little bit higher. There’s like revenue you have to have audited financials and, you know, (34:54) over a certain revenue number. And so I joined that group and absolutely changed the game for me.

(35:01) It’s the same, same type of thing, but a lot more educational programming, um, and then international (35:08) opportunities. And it’s just been amazing, but I mean, some much larger businesses in that group (35:14) as well. So I just learned, you know, my, my challenge that I’m stressing about all week, (35:20) I’ll sit down and talk to someone else.

Who’s got that same challenge, but he’s 10 X bigger (35:25) of a company. It, it gives you some perspective. So that that’s been really cool.

What’s really (35:32) neat though, is I was at a retreat last like six months ago. And I talked to a guy who is in both (35:38) the UCLA one and, and EO. And I was like, oh, I didn’t even think that was possible.

So I just (35:43) rejoined. So now I’m in actually two monthly forums and it’s, it’s been amazing. I get to (35:49) see my old, old forum again.

I missed all of them. They’re just amazing, amazing people. (35:55) Uh, but so much of it is just seeing things from a different perspective.

So last month at my, (36:01) my forum meeting, we spent the whole meeting focused on one of the, one of the businesses in (36:07) the group was facing a, a big challenge on, on strategy. And we spent about two hours working (36:13) on his challenge and I walked away. So fulfilled.

It was nothing to do about my business, but (36:20) thinking like about a creative challenge to his, a creative solution to his challenge and talking (36:26) through ideas, like I learned so much from the group, but then he got so much out of it. And it (36:31) was just, it was, I’m sure you can relate with, with Vistage, but it was, it was cool. (36:39) I can’t, yeah.

I can’t even like begin to, to tell all the stories like that. Right. (36:45) Yeah.

And, and personally, I mean, I’m, I have two kids, two small kids and (36:51) so much of it is how to balance and show up as a father, you know, while running a business and (36:58) worry, you’re worried about this, but then how can you be present and not be on your phone all (37:02) the time? Things like this, that I’m a work in progress. Like I am, I’m constantly learning from (37:08) this group because, you know, I struggle, I struggle a lot when, you know, just creating (37:13) the balance and not having anxiety and, you know, all, all these things. So the peer group is, (37:20) has been priceless that way.

Great. Yeah. Let’s talk about like the anxiety of things, (37:27) of the business and, you know, have you, have you kind of, what do you, what do you do to, (37:34) what do you do to stay as balanced as possible? Because your wife, your wife works as well, (37:40) right? She works, she works as well.

And then she has a bit of a commute (37:44) too. So, you know, pretty, pretty long hours for her. And so it is, it takes an army and it takes (37:51) a village.

But we’re, you know, we’re doing it. And what do I do to, I think the biggest thing (37:59) that’s helped me is workouts. You know, I try to do a Peloton workout or yoga, or I’ve been doing (38:08) long walks in the morning, you know, an hour walk before the day gets started six to seven in the(38:13) morning and just clear my head and think about, think about the day, set some intention.

(38:18) That’s not that early though, because I mean, for the rest of the world, (38:21) you’re really talking like nine o’clock. Yeah. Yeah.

No, but, and that’s, that’s what, if you (38:28) don’t do something like that now it’s noon everywhere else while you’re, you know, you’re (38:32) just getting your day started. So, so it is, it is important. That’s great.

And then we, (38:39) yeah, we go to church, we go to church every week too. So that’s been a key part of, (38:45) I think just as a family, just having that time each week and being connected to that community (38:51) as well. Great.

Yeah. We had a, we had a fellow on Fred Sievert, who was the former president of (38:58) New York Life Insurance Company. And he talked about, you know, how his faith was so (39:05) integral and, you know, for such a company, such a large company like that, you know, (39:09) they got, wow, you were allowed to talk about that, huh? Yeah.

It was, it was, it’s really (39:13) interesting. So it’s, it’s good. The, the balance that you’re finding and, and everything (39:18) you’re doing.

Tell us a little bit about your wife and your kids. Yeah. My wife is amazing.

(39:26) She is just an amazing, amazing mom and she holds, holds it all together and takes care of us. She, (39:33) so she works in sports entertainment. And so she, she basically does entertainment for a major (39:42) national hockey, hockey league team here in LA.

And then she shows up every day, (39:49) every minute for the kids and for, for us. So it’s, she’s great. Our kids are just amazing.

(39:56) I’m a girl dad and they’re, I would say the most well-rounded girls in the world. I mean, we’re, (40:04) you know, from body surfing and, and surfing to playing in the mud to building stuff and (40:12) wearing dresses and, you know, they’re just super well-rounded. So I’m, I’m proud of them.

(40:16) And, and yeah, we’re just trying to like show up. I had the girls right now. (40:23) Three, three and seven.

Okay. And talk about a sign, Matt. I had this happen the other day (40:29) where I was like, you know what? I really need to change this.

My little one, her favorite toy (40:35) that she carries around all day long. Now guess what it is? I don’t know. A cell phone.

Oh no. (40:42) Okay. And I was like, Oh my God, where is she getting this from? Right.

Talk about a sign. (40:48) I’m like, okay, the cell phone, when I get home from work, it needs to go in a basket now. Cause (40:53) yeah, we’re showing the wrong, the wrong signals to her.

(40:57) You think the girls know, do you think they know how much you guys are working or have you, (41:03) do you think you do with the showing up? Like you said, I mean, you’re there for almost everything, (41:08) right? You’re there for mobile and everything. You’re not missing it, you know, traveling for (41:13) work. No, we don’t.

We don’t. And that’s the luxury of, you know, she’s got a, she can be (41:17) flexible with her schedule and, you know, running, running my own business. I can be as well, (41:22) but they definitely, they definitely know.

I try to like, I have a pretty cool office here where (41:28) we have like a rooftop and just a lot of fun stuff at the office. I try to bring them to the office (41:34) as much. They always ask me after school, like, can we go to your office? And so they, (41:38) they enjoy that.

So they get to see kind of what we’re doing, what we’re building. (41:43) And then of course my, you know, my oldest one has been part of the creation of a lot of these (41:49) products. So she’s always like helping me shoot videos and doing fun things.

So it’s awesome. It (41:54) was fun. I want to teach them at a young age.

That’s about what’s possible. Look, you and I (41:58) had the benefit of being taught at a young age. I mean, both of our, both of our dads were (42:04) entrepreneurs and we got to see the highs and the lows of that.

So, you know, we got our, (42:10) we got our humility consistently checked. But we also, you know, we also had to work hard, right? (42:16) There was no, there was no question about that. You know, we were talking about your dad and how (42:22) some of what, what he, you know, some of what he’s all been all about, right.

Really influenced you, (42:29) that engineering sort of mindset. And, you know, I remember being, you know, growing up with you, (42:35) you know, we, we had houses on the lake and we, we had to help your dad put together the, (42:40) the boat lift for, for jet ski. You know, I grew up on a canal and had, you know, a hundred (42:47) neighbors that all had a very standard lift mechanism for a jet ski.

It was called the (42:52) davit, right. And then your dad, you know, because of the business that he was in, in the machining (42:58) world, you know, he’s, he’s got us driving out with, you know, something that’s heavier than (43:04) you can imagine and could have lifted a spaceship. I mean, overbuilt, you know, all these exterior (43:11) bearings to, to rotate the whole thing.

So you could, you could spin it. I forgot about that. (43:17) Yeah, I didn’t know.

We had to lift that thing in place. I remember. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And he, (43:23) it’s funny that you, you say that because he would always think about, you know, for him, (43:28) it’s pride of building something and, and over-engineer it and just make it so it will (43:36) last forever.

And I, you know, and then the way he would look, he, he still looks at problems and (43:43) he’s always asking questions. And that’s the coolest thing. I now see that.

I think I’ve, (43:48) I’ve inherited a ton of that. Like I’m always like looking at things like, how, how do you think (43:53) that works? Like, why, why this, why that? And now I see my daughter seven years old every day. (43:59) Dad, what do you think? Like, why do you think this is built like this? Like, look at this sign.

(44:04) Doesn’t it look like, like it’s going to fall? Like she’s always pointing out things constantly.(44:09) And it’s just having that curious nature is, is amazing. So I, I think probably that’s the,(44:16) been the greatest gift from my dad.

Yeah. Is that, and then of course he would take it, (44:21) you know, one step further and like, how can we, how can we improve on it? Like, (44:24) what can we do? Like what innovative solution can we do? And that was his whole, (44:29) his whole business. And I think I’ve, I’ve, I use a lot of that still to this day, (44:34) you know, just approaching business situations where there’s no, there’s no roadmap and you (44:41) just have to like figure it out.

Yeah. Yeah. There’s a, so that lifelong learner, (44:46) I remember the business card from one of the first ventures that you had, it said, be bold.

(44:51) Yes. Yeah. I think like, you know, you’ve, you’ve kind of been a trailblazer and been bold and, (44:58) you know, get out and getting out there and doing it.

Tell us the story about the, (45:05) the blue nightclub in Detroit when you needed, when you needed some money to go move. (45:14) Okay. So that’s just the legal, just the legal, just the legal parts.

(45:20) Blast, blast from the past. You know, what’s funny though, I went to, I went to a seminar(45:25) over the weekend and do you know who Lewis Howes is? No. He, he’s an online, he puts on, (45:33) he has a podcast called the school of greatness and he, he interviews all these guests.

And so (45:39) he had like David Goggins was at the conference and like Joe Dispenza, (45:44) Cody Sanchez, all these speakers. So I was there, I was there and (45:47) Dr. Joe Dispenza was talking all about manifestation. Okay.

And you know, it’s kind (45:53) of a woo woo. Like some people are like, it’s kind of woo woo, but based on all of my peer (45:58) groups and the most successful, I, I, people I know manifest constantly. They visualize what they, (46:04) where they want to go and they create.

And it’s amazing. Anyhow, the blue nightclub story (46:10) was my first like real manifest manifestation where I set out. I had a good friend of mine (46:18) from college who moved to Manhattan beach and he went to USC dental school and I was visiting, (46:24) I would visit him all the time from Michigan.

And you know, I remember one trip I left in February (46:29) and two feet of snow on the ground. And I went, I flew out to Manhattan beach. (46:33) He picks me up at the airport.

We’re on the beach a half hour later playing beach volleyball with (46:38) his buddies. And it’s just an amazing, amazing day. I’m like, why am I not living here? I’m (46:43) living in Michigan.

And I just, I, it called me on so many levels. So I set a goal with nine months, (46:50) nine months later, I’m like nine months from now I’m moving to California. And I was at the time I (46:56) was in Jerry Weinberg and a lot of it, a lot of the training, this was like Jerry Weinberg.

(47:01) Explain because Jerry Weinberg is, is, is germane to, to the Detroit sales training (47:10) organization. Jerry was the, for the longest time was the largest franchisee of (47:16) Sandler sales training worldwide. And just, I mean, and it was every business, we both, (47:21) we both took it right.

And Sandler sales training was taught by Jerry was just amazing. So one of (47:29) the things he talked about, he’s like, if you have a big goal, he’s like, get very, very clear on (47:34) what that goal is. Put yourself on the far side of the goal.

Like you’ve already accomplished it (47:40) map out on the wall, like put, listen to the music. Like for me, I was wanting to move to (47:46) California. He’s like, put stuff on the wall with California palm trees everywhere.

Listen to, (47:51) you know, beach boys music and they do all these things. And, and at the time I was like, you know (47:56) what? I, I have to do this. Like I’ll do whatever it takes.

So I started doing all these things. And (48:01) like, as, as I got closer, a lot of weed back then too. Oh yeah.

Right. No, but I’m like, as I got (48:10) and I never inhaled either. So it doesn’t matter.

I’m like, as I got closer to the goal, I’m like, (48:15) it became so real where it wasn’t even a question. I’m like, I will move to California. And (48:20) there were a couple of obstacles in my way.

One, I was working, you know, in a family business (48:25) with my dad who, you know, I revered and, and like, I don’t want to like leave him high and dry, (48:31) but I know it’s not, I can’t stay here forever. And I need to go spread my wings and fly. (48:36) And then I also money financial, like to move to California was not easy nor cheap.

(48:41) So I had to, I had a savings plan in place, all these things working about a month and a half(48:46) before the trip, before I was going to move, change my whole life and basically quit my job(48:52) with the family business and leave. I found myself, my savings were depleted. I had to buy(48:58) a new car and all these other expenses.

I’m like, okay, I’m six weeks away. This move is happening, (49:02) whether I like it or not. I have to go there.

I need a nest egg when I’m there (49:07) and I have to figure it out. I got to get creative. So I’m like, what can I do? How can I (49:11) make $10,000 or $15,000 in like a couple of days? I’m like, what can I do? And I’m like, (49:17) it has to be legal.

There was no affiliate marketing back then. TikTok shop was not there. (49:24) There was, yeah, no, none of it.

So I’m like, what can I do? And so I got this crazy idea. (49:30) I was connected to like, I was president of my fraternity in college and like involved in all (49:35) these different groups. And I’m like, man, I know how to like pull people together.

That was like, (49:40) what I could do. I’m like, and I was connected with like, I’m just like, my group has always (49:45) been very diverse. So I met friends with this group and this group and like all different (49:50) types of people.

And I’m like, what if I just threw a huge party and rented out a club, threw (49:55) a huge party, raised money, basically, you know, rented out the club and then took the door money. (50:02) And I knew some people who were doing similar things. They would host these big events and then(50:06) and basically raise money.

So I came up with this idea and in the spirit of visualizing, (50:12) I sat down on my computer and I wrote it out. And I was like, here’s what it’s going to look (50:16) like when you walk through the door. There’s going to be people juggling fire and there’s (50:19) going to be the hottest DJ and all these things.

And I literally wrote it out in such detail. (50:26) And I ended up getting, I pitched it to like 12 different sponsors. Eight of them right away said (50:32) yes.

And so they covered a lot of hard costs. And then next thing you know, I started putting it out.(50:38) Remember Our Detroit Magazine? Yeah, they’re still here.

Yeah, they were. They’re amazing people (50:44) over there. They sent some photographers and like we had a VIP room and all these things.

So (50:51) it ended up being this really fun time and big party. And we were charging at the door,(50:58) which is typical of any club. So it was no big deal.

But the difference was that I kept it, (51:05) and so at the end of the night, oh, and by the way, it was in Detroit, (51:10) really rough part of Detroit. At the time, it wasn’t like what it was today. And so I had to (51:15) have cash drops.

So at 10 o’clock, I had to have my brother-in-law take an envelope full of money. (51:21) At midnight, my brother did. And then at 2 a.m., I took the rest.

And long story short, (51:27) I think in four hours, we made like $11,000. And it was the next day we counted it on my brother’s (51:34) table. And it was like this huge pile of cash and then deposited the money.

Two days later, (51:39) we’re driving to California. So that’s amazing. And that lasted about a month in California.

No, (51:47) yeah, didn’t last very long. But yeah, that kind of, you know, that’s how I got out here and then (51:55) basically started from scratch out here and never looked back. So that’s fantastic.

(52:01) Now, the other you, so I mean, obviously, if we’re talking business life technology and(52:07) transformations here, you check all the boxes, right? When you were out there originally,(52:14) the transformations were, you know, moved out there, you were doing a lot of work in China. (52:20) So and then just talk a little bit about that wave and just maybe instead of really focusing on (52:27) everything that you did, they’re just things that you learned from that, that you’re applying today. (52:33) You know, where did the where did I always think the trend, the, the, the transformations, (52:38) the pivot points, those are the areas where you so much learning happens in those, in those time (52:45) spans.

Talk a little bit about that. Talk about a couple of things that you learned from there (52:50) that you’re applying today in the businesses. Yeah.

Yeah. And those are the scariest times (52:57) too, right? Those transformations and, excuse me, the transitions, they’re the scariest times (53:03) because changes, change is tough. I mean, it’s really tough.

And that’s one thing I think for me, (53:10) I had a lot of change, you know, through, through the years and some of those, the changes I was, (53:17) you know, the, the China thing for me, I’d never been to China. You know, when I first went, (53:22) I went in 2005, I think for the first time. And I had one trip with my boss at the time.

(53:30) And he’s like, showed me, you know, we met a few folks and then he’s like, all right, now you’re (53:37) going to go here’s the, you know, company credit card or the budget. And he’s like, I want you to (53:42) pretty much go every month for a couple of years and, and basically figure it out, rebuild our (53:48) whole supply chain. And he, he set the vision and the goal.

And then basically I had to execute on (53:55) it. And it was scary as hell. I didn’t, you know, the language was an issue.

You know, traveling is, (54:03) you know, it’s not easy, especially when you don’t know the language and you can’t read the signs and (54:07) everything else. But it was the coolest experience I ever had. And I met some people that I’ll never (54:12) forget.

And I’m still in touch with today. And like, talk about like the learning mindset, (54:18) these people, this was like, I would say early days in China. It wasn’t early, but it was like (54:23) 2005, 2006.

And people there, I mean, things were changing. So many brands, companies from the US (54:31) were outsourcing and setting up new, everything was new. Every time I would go back from one month (54:36) to the next, you’d see a new high rise.

And you’d see, you know, I grew up in manufacturing and you’d (54:42) see some of this world-class German engineering, German equipment, Japanese equipment, all here (54:50) in China. And it was just, and with people who have a growth mindset, who are just like figuring (54:56) stuff out in an entrepreneurial way. And like that deeply impacted me where it’s not, you know, (55:02) it’s not tradition, nothing about it was traditional, but it was all new.

And like, (55:07) the only thing that matters is today, not the past. Whatever we have today matters, you know, (55:15) that’s how we can create tomorrow. And so I learned, I learned a ton from that experience.

(55:19) And I think I still carry that with me today. I, so I did for about 10 years, I was like sourcing(55:28) and doing business in China, helping US companies do business in China. And it, I got to a point (55:34) and when in 2000, 2008, where I actually pivoted away from that, the products and the things we (55:41) were doing, the margins decreased dramatically, freight costs went up, a lot of increased (55:47) competition.

And then of course, the economy changed dramatically. And I turned inward, (55:54) inward, meaning I stopped, stopped going to going to China. And I focused on building a US-based(56:00) business.

So I actually got into I had many, many transitions during that time, I ended up doing (56:05) some consulting for a while. And then I ended up, I say, like getting an MBA in retail. So and that (56:15) was something that like China influenced, I would I was a lot of the programs I was working on was (56:20) setting up supply chains for for products, building products, and then eventually building components, (56:26) and then eventually building retail goods.

And that’s kind of how that transition happened. (56:31) And I would always look at these products, and I’m like, someday, they’re going to be my products (56:35) on shelves. And so what I realized is to get there, I needed to really understand not just how to make (56:42) the product, but how to sell, sell the product.

And you know, how to how to basically build a (56:48) retail program at a national US-based retailer. So I went and did that for about four years. And (56:54) again, that was scary as hell, I had zero experience, much less in the beauty industry.

(57:00) But I ended up figuring it out. And I would say I’m not mastering my craft, but getting pretty, (57:07) pretty good at it. And building some amazing relationships that are still with me today, (57:13) as well.

And I still work with some of these same people in the industry. But again, (57:21) if I would have stopped at, you know, stopped at the fact that I didn’t have experience, (57:27) then I would have never started. So I had to just power through it.

(57:32) The other piece that you’re not saying, you know, is the, you know, the reinvention piece and how (57:39) other people look at you as an entrepreneur, right? They’re always, they’re always looking (57:43) at you like you’re crazy. And so you have to have some fortitude to see through that to go, (57:50) okay, I, you know, I know, I’m not being wild and irresponsible. I know, you know, I believe (57:54) the manifesting helps, you know, what, what besides the manifesting? You know, how did (58:02) you keep your own self intact? While everybody’s looking at you like you’re nuts?(58:09) Yeah, it’s funny.

That’s been a real challenge of mine, Matt. As far as not wanting to share (58:16) too much. Because I was afraid people would think I was crazy.

You know what I mean? Because like, (58:23) wait, you’re doing this. Now you’re doing this. And like, still to this day, I have some friends (58:27) that are like, wait, I don’t really know what you do.

Like, tell me what you do. (58:32) And part of that is my fault. I haven’t necessarily shared my journey the whole way.

(58:39) And I’ve kind of, I’ve honestly gotten better at it in the past year or two, where I’ve found(58:45) the common thread. And, you know, my, my thread is different than your thread is different than (58:51) than anyone else. And like, I’m proud of the journey now, and where I used to be afraid of it, (58:58) shy about it.

And because I didn’t want people to think, you know, it was it was too disconnected. (59:06) Some following whims and not really being purposeful or intentional in some way. (59:12) Right.

Right. (59:14) So let’s, let’s say this. So, you know, I don’t know what different systems you operate with.

(59:22) But like, you’ve, you’ve heard of traction, I’m sure. Yes, the OS model, you know, I identify(59:28) as a visionary. That’s what I’m good at.

I’m good at strategy. I’m good at, I’m good at communication (59:34) and building relationships. Beyond that, I’m not really great at a whole lot of things.

(59:38) So what do you identify as? And you don’t have to use the the EOS verbiage for it. But but maybe if (59:46) you use, you know, something that we can kind of sink our teeth into. So when somebody is trying (59:51) to understand who is Brian Holowaty, you know, and what value is he bringing into an organization? (59:57) What do you what do you how do you identify Brian?(1:00:00) I, I would actually identify as a visionary as well.

And I’m, I’m always looking and this is this (1:00:09) is one of the challenges that I have. I don’t always communicate it with my team. But I’m always (1:00:15) looking three to four steps ahead and seeing macro, like where, where are things heading (1:00:21) and then building based on that.

And that’s why, you know, you and I were talking about this, (1:00:29) this whole strategy, like with, with content, and like, where I’ll give you an example right now, (1:00:35) what I’m seeing what’s keeping me up at night right now, Matt, is brands and companies of the (1:00:41) future. It’s not going to matter what mattered yesterday will not matter in the future. The (1:00:48) only thing that’s going to keep people and companies and brands relevant in the future is, (1:00:53) is content is being personal being out there.

I’m preaching to the choir, you have a podcast, (1:00:58) but, but we, you know, you, everyone will be looking for personal brands from you, your doctor, (1:01:08) if your doctor has a personal brand, you’re looking for a new doctor, one is really active, (1:01:14) and he’s got videos online, you can feel like you get to know them and connect with them. (1:01:19) Versus someone who just has a Yelp listing. And, you know, it’s not you don’t have that personal (1:01:26) connection.

And that I mean, that’s just a dumb example. But I really believe to stay relevant (1:01:33) in the future, brands and companies, all content is everything. And it’s no longer about how much(1:01:41) capital you have, it’s just how you can connect on a deep level with your community.

That’s so (1:01:48) funny. You just said that I was just, I have a younger, he’s not he’s not that young, but he’s (1:01:53) 10 years younger than 10 years younger than us. Dentist who I met recently, and he came and just (1:02:00) said, Hey, can we do coffee? He just wants to talk about business.

And talk about, talk about (1:02:05) scaling his organization and what he does and all that sort of stuff. And it was funny, I was I was (1:02:10) just mentioning to him that I said, you know, I will not accept traditional medicine, right? You (1:02:16) will not see me just go to a regular doctor. I go to a concierge doctor, why I have a cell phone, (1:02:22) right? I have a dentist.

Yeah. You know, and it’s not always that I’m paying for that concierge (1:02:28) service. But I’m, I’m getting referrals to friends, right? I’m saying, well, you know, (1:02:34) the orthopedic surgeon who takes care of my mom is a guy from our golf course, right? That’s like, (1:02:39) my mom was, you know, had fallen hurt herself.

Oh, you know, it’s gonna take me three weeks to get (1:02:45) in for this appointment. I said, No, it’s not pick up the phone, I call, call my buddy. He says, (1:02:50) um, can she be there at eight o’clock in the morning? Yep.

Boom, she’s in MRI before noon. (1:02:56) Okay. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, frictionless, like you said, right? Yeah.

Now, why do I expect (1:03:02) that? I expect that because I know that every owner of every company that we do business with (1:03:08) has my cell phone number, right? Now, they don’t usually typically choose to call me because they (1:03:13) know that I’m not, I’m not an enormous technical resource to them. But they know that if there’s (1:03:17) major block, that they know that they could that they could come to me, right? Awesome. (1:03:23) Again, thank God, I’m super blessed that I am not getting those calls.

(1:03:28) From those people, I’m getting, you know, most of the time, they’re inviting me to do something fun. (1:03:32) But, but, you know, they have the number, right? And so I expect it, I demand it of whoever I’m (1:03:38) working with, you know, and it’s like, you’re not going to be a number. And I think that I don’t, (1:03:43) I think maybe that was a rare thought in the past.

But I think it’s just it’s growing. And (1:03:49) people are like, you know what, I’m sick of, you know, crappy brands of crappy chemicals. (1:03:54) So I’m going to go buy those, you know, I’m going to go buy those Frankie and Paisley products from (1:03:58) Brian, you know, instead of something that I don’t know what it is, you know, I’m going to go to the (1:04:03) concierge doctor, spend a couple bucks, do the math on it, by the way, and say, the time that I save (1:04:09) is worth every dollar, right? Sure.

The acne that I don’t experience is worth every dollar, (1:04:16) right? It’s these are no brainers. And so I think that the market is just going to keep pushing for (1:04:22) that. So I do really hope that you’re right about the kind of the brands of the future is going to (1:04:26) be those of excellence, right? Where it’s, you know, driven by transparency, driven by content, (1:04:34) the personal relationship, and I just love it.

I hope that that’s hope that what’s happening. (1:04:40) My favorite thing to do, Matt, and you and I have this in common is go have lunch with (1:04:45) another entrepreneur. Who’s who’s building a business? What’s that? So I try to do it every (1:04:52) day.

Yeah, yeah. And Mike, when I meetings like that a week, to be honest, and when I sit down,(1:04:57) like my wife can attest, like, everyone I meet is the most amazing person in some way, like, (1:05:02) because I tell her, I’m like, you have no idea, like how this person built this business, like, (1:05:08) you know, went through thick and thin and like, almost failed five times. And like,(1:05:12) I have this amazing story about everyone that I sit down with saying, and I’m like, and I’m(1:05:17) thinking about it, like one of my one of my good friends, you know, Terry, he owns an optometrist, (1:05:22) he owns a couple optometry offices.

And he was he was wrestling the other day. He’s like, you know, (1:05:27) with Yelp reviews, they rely so much on Yelp. And like, one once in a while, they’ll have someone (1:05:34) who just for whatever reason, just doesn’t have a good experience.

And they write a bad review, (1:05:39) totally hurts him, you know, and hurts his whole business. And I was talking with him. I’m like, (1:05:44) I know the magic of how he does how he runs this practice.

I know his staff, how good they are. (1:05:50) I know, like, everyone has amazing experiences. A Yelp review does not tell the whole story.

(1:05:55) Correct. So that’s where I think in the future, short form content is everything. And it’s like, (1:06:02) imagine having going in and shooting a couple hours of videos with him, where, you know, (1:06:07) he’s telling his story, like why he does what he does, how he spots certain things,(1:06:11) and then his staff, and then a few patients chopping it up into short form content, (1:06:16) and then giving it back for him as like a done for you marketing solution.

So like, (1:06:21) that’s where I think the future is heading. And that’s kind of, yeah, (1:06:26) that’s where we’re heading as well, Matt. (1:06:30) Any last bit of advice that you would give to the younger viewer or to the even younger version of (1:06:38) yourself? So let’s do that.

Let’s pick that one. Let’s say, what would be your parting advice to (1:06:44) the 23 year old Brian Holowaty? Man, there, there’s so much change happening right now. (1:06:54) Back to the technology.

I mean, with with AI, tech tool, like, I mean, AI, for instance, (1:07:02) I don’t know how much you use it. But I mean, it’s, it’s constantly Yeah, same. And I’m real (1:07:09) anymore.

Yeah, no, are you serious? Or no. I’m the bot formerly known as Matt. Yeah, no, (1:07:16) I know.

I use it every single day. Yeah. And especially for aggregation of my own ideas, (1:07:22) right.

So things that I find it very difficult for me to articulate, because my brain is thinking (1:07:28) four and five steps ahead, like yours. It’s how do I get that into a format, talk to the GPT, (1:07:34) tell it all this stuff, and then be able to bring it to three other people who are not (1:07:39) schizophrenic like I am? Yeah. Yeah.

So I agree 100%. And I’m finding better ways to use it every (1:07:47) day. But that the amount of technology that’s that we have now, and in the amount of change (1:07:53) that’s happening, I would encourage a younger person, and if I could go back in time, to learn (1:08:00) and spend as much time learning as possible, like, get good at learning.

I mean, design, (1:08:07) everyone should know how to do a bit of design and ways to articulate their ideas using design. (1:08:14) Everyone needs to know sales moving forward in some way or another. And again, it’s articulating (1:08:20) your ideas in a really in a really powerful way.

Technology, I mean, AI, whether we like it or not, (1:08:29) it’s coming in a big, big way. And like, we all need to, we need to learn it. And we need to (1:08:34) learn how to harness it to be better versions of ourselves, not to rely on it, but to be better (1:08:39) versions of ourselves.

And then building a personal brand. I think that’s extremely important (1:08:47) moving forward. And that’s, and that’s holistically, it’s not just on one channel, it’s, (1:08:53) it’s really, you know, holistically.

And then mentorship is absolutely critical. (1:09:01) And I would say networking. And when I say networking, it’s kind of a slimy word, but it’s (1:09:07) just building relationship building on a continual basis.

And it’s not just (1:09:13) to get a job, but it’s really to build your knowledge base. (1:09:18) Mm-hmm. Great.

I always think of, you know, everybody you meet, meet them with the intention. (1:09:25) This is, and this is my MO, meet them with the intention of introducing them to someone valuable (1:09:29) to them. Right.

And that’ll make me, that’ll make my big mouth stop talking and make me listen (1:09:35) enough to understand the person, find the special things inside of them, and then put them in touch(1:09:40) with, with somebody who I think. Yeah. And that’s one of the things I respect so much about you, (1:09:44) Matt.

You like, you’ve done that your whole, since I’ve known you. Well, thanks. It’s, (1:09:50) no, it’s amazing.

I appreciate that. Yeah. You know, one other thing I would tell the younger (1:09:55) versions of ourselves is it’s going to be okay.

Right. So for every time you were freaking out (1:10:01) along the way, it’s going to be okay. True.

True. Do you, how do you feel? And I don’t, (1:10:07) I don’t know if you can relate to this, but the less, I hate to like not ever watch news and not (1:10:15) know what current events are happening, but the more news I watch, the more anxiety I have. (1:10:23) I would totally agree, but I’m a little bit, I’ll use the term bipolar on it, whereby (1:10:31) I, what I, what I sometimes think is, am I watching, am I not watching enough? (1:10:37) Right.

What am I not learning? Like I was always the guy that I resisted IPA beers. Okay. Because (1:10:42) I was so sick of everybody talking about them.

Yeah. No, I hear you. These things are awesome.

(1:10:47) What the hell was I thinking waiting? So I do worry about the FOMO right piece of what am I not (1:10:53) going to know if I’m, if I’m not watching the news, but also, you know, I mean, I know where (1:10:59) you’re going with it, right. It’s like, if you want to get sucked down into the vortex of, (1:11:03) of total bullshit, just watch the news every day. But if you didn’t watch the news, would you, (1:11:09) would you know about AI? Right.

And you probably would from your peer groups. Right. Yeah.

And (1:11:14) that would be where you’d pick it up. So, yeah, I mean, look, I think that there’s, there is no (1:11:19) value in, in current news. I mean, I think it’s, it’s all so completely skewed and, and fear (1:11:28) mongering too.

Yeah. Fear mongering skewed. And I think that, you know, if we even just kind of go, (1:11:34) go quasi political and you say, you know, it’s, it’s, there’s not one thing that is for the (1:11:41) normal person, right.

There’s nothing that sounds like the conversations that I’m having, (1:11:46) you know, on chairlifts or, you know, on a telephone call or out to lunch with people. (1:11:51) Nothing on the news sounds like that. It all sounds completely polarized one way or another from (1:11:57) crazy wacky on both sides.

It’s never sounding like real people. And that’s, I think the biggest (1:12:02) the biggest challenge of it. Yeah.

No, I would agree with that, but it will all be okay. That’s, (1:12:10) that’s the best advice right there. Good.

Well, thanks for, for doing this. I mean, (1:12:17) you’ve got a great story. I know next time we talk, we should probably chat a little bit about (1:12:22) some of the other ventures that you’re involved in.

And maybe we’ll go down the AI track a little (1:12:29) bit more and talk about how we’re using it on a daily basis. Both of us. That’d be fun.

That’d (1:12:33) be fun. Awesome, Matt. Well, thanks for doing this, Brian.

Always great to see you. Next time (1:12:39) I’m going to, I’m going to be in person. Okay.

That would be, that’s my, that’s my wish. Love it.