(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

All right, welcome to our newest episode of the BLTNT (0:42) podcast, where we’re talking about business, life, technology, and transformations. And we’ve got (0:48) with us here, Sam Monaco, who is the first guest to be privy to sit underneath the sign. So thanks (0:56) for allowing it to shine down upon you.

What kind of sign? Oh, the sign back here. Yeah, (1:02) this is my surprise gift from Jackie. She got this and made this all happen last week.

Very (1:07) cool. Yeah. So I got to make an introduction here of Sam.

He’s a couple of things. Well, (1:15) first of all, Sam, I consider like Kid Rock is the rock and roll son of Detroit. I think (1:22) Sam is the real estate mogul son of Detroit here.

And he’s the son of an entrepreneur. He’s a hard (1:30) working guy. He’s got the three F’s.

He’s a family man, he’s faithful, and he’s fucking funny. (1:39) And he was worried about saying the F word. So I told him that I was going to drop an F bomb real (1:42) early just to make sure that he didn’t feel bad if he ended up dropping one.

You did. You know, (1:46) the three F’s in my world are food, family, and football. Okay.

Thank you. So thank you for the (1:58) kind words. You’re making me a little bit nervous here, but glad to be here and very interested and (2:07) intrigued to be part of this podcast.

Good. Well, it’s been a pleasure getting to know you over the (2:12) last, what’s it been, about four or five years getting to know each other and realize we’ve (2:17) kind of known of each other from prior to that. But it’s been great.

Our paths do cross. Obviously, (2:25) your business model is similar to ours. We’re real estate consultants.

We do a lot of hunting, (2:33) as do you. We don’t do what you do, but you can certainly make introductions to us and (2:40) vice versa. Absolutely.

We kind of met under some interesting circumstances too (2:46) when introduced by some common friends. And those friends brought us, they brought us to a golf (2:53) course and we were having a dinner and they were all gone. And it was just me and Sam sitting there (3:00) and Sam says, so what do you do? And I tell him and he says, well, who are some of your customers?(3:05) And I said, well, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t really know of them.

Most of them are, you know, (3:09) it’s not like we’re serving Target and Amazon or anything like that. We’re serving the mid market, (3:14) which not everybody knows the names of those clients. He said, come on, try me.

Well, that’s (3:18) our market too. Well, I didn’t realize this at the time. So he says, try me.

And I said, (3:24) I said a name. I said, I said, we do some work with Savon, the guys who make the coupons. (3:30) And his, his face kind of lights up for a second.

And he says, he says, I just bought his old house. (3:38) And I said, oh no, you’re the guy. And then you said, you’re the guy.

And what had happened was (3:45) when, when, when Mike sold his house, before Mike sold his house, we took care of putting some (3:49) wifi in there, which we don’t do residential work, but we did just for him. And, and he says to me, (3:56) hey, the new guy wants your phone number. And I said, no, do not give it to him.

We don’t do that (4:00) kind of work. And that was only a favor for you. And then, you know, after that, what was it within (4:06) 24 hours, I was over your house working on your wifi.

It all changed. So I appreciate you doing (4:13) that. I know you typically don’t do residential and you know, one of the biggest concerns at the (4:18) house with my kids and I have four of them is wifi.

Yeah. So yeah, it’s, it’s, and I tell my (4:26) kids all the time, it’s be careful what you say and what you do, because you never really know (4:31) what the outcome can be long-term. So yeah.

And that’s, that’s, I thank you for bringing that to (4:37) my attention. That’s how our relationship started. And, and I think it’s carried forward over the, (4:44) that was three years ago.

Yeah. You’re right. Yeah.

And our wives enjoy each other’s company. (4:48) So that makes it easier to, to hang out. So it’s all good.

And just so you know, (4:53) the wifi is still fucked up, but we can talk about that after. (4:59) Well, we’re going to have to upgrade you to one of those Juniper wifi systems since this (5:03) episode is sponsored by Juniper. Oh boy.

And so that’s not what you have. So we’ll, (5:07) we’ll have to do that. And then, then you won’t have those, those same sentiments.

(5:11) So, so I know you’re the one asking the questions and I appreciate that, but I do (5:15) have a question for you is why, why, why me? What, what, what value, what intrigues you about my (5:26) career, my path that, that, that is of interest to you? Well, you’re a, you’re a layered man. (5:33) And every, every time that I get together with you, I learn about another layer and it’s always (5:40) interesting. And the whole premise of the show started when we, you know, kind of recognize(5:46) that I get to talk to some interesting people and share some interesting stories, you know,(5:50) but those stories usually were just kind of stopping when I would get home and tell my wife,(5:54) you know, maybe make an introduction or two to the person I’d meet.

But you know, (5:59) this is something to get to know, you know, got the phone call ring in here. I’m going to shut (6:03) that down. You know, this is, this is some, this is a way that I get to share some of those (6:09) interesting stories.

So when somebody has layers like you have, I get really interested to, (6:13) to get you, get you talking and get other people to learn a little bit more about who you are. (6:20) And so, you know, you’re, you’re the son of an entrepreneur. I’m the son of an entrepreneur.

(6:27) We both kind of learned our, our crafts or our own just personalities developed (6:35) interestingly through those through growing up in that way. We’re both Italian. Actually, (6:41) you’re, you’re Sicilian on both sides.

I’m Italian and Sicilian. So I’m only half crazy. (6:47) You’re fully crazy, a hundred percent crazy.

So you know, those are some of the reasons, (6:52) but you, you know, you’ve got an interesting pulse on obviously on your industry the industry (6:59) of commercial real estate and especially the Detroit market. And obviously that’s a, (7:05) that’s an interesting market. It’s an interesting place, right? We’re getting to see, (7:08) you know, we’re getting to see within, you know, many people’s lifetimes, people a little bit (7:12) older than us got to see the full ride of, you know, Detroit at its glory to Detroit at its (7:18) demise to, to the resurgence.

And so you’ve gotten to see a lot of a lot of miles of, (7:26) of rough terrain through COVID with the real estate world. So, you know, I want to share some (7:32) of these stories and then and, and dig a little deeper and get people to know you. So that’s (7:37) why you’re here.

No, I appreciate it. So where do you want to start? I’ve been, I’ve been doing (7:42) this for almost 35 years now. Okay.

And you mentioned son of an entrepreneur. So my father (7:53) was a grocer and he and his brother, Sam own liquor stores in the city. One was at (8:04) on the corner of Mount Elliot and Charlevoix.

The other was Mack and Bewick, (8:08) which were pretty rough neighborhoods. And, you know, we all worked at the store as kids. (8:17) I worked there even through my college days, occasionally when I was in law school.

And I (8:24) tell people that I learned more working at my dad’s store than I did in four years of college (8:31) in three years of law school. And I just learned how to deal with people who were different, (8:39) never talked down to anybody. So I’m comfortable talking with bankers and lawyers because of my (8:46) education, as well as talking about talking to people, you know, who are homeless on the streets (8:54) and you never demean, you never talk down to anybody.

And it’s, it’s a skill set that, (9:01) you know, I learned from my dad that I really do appreciate.(9:05) That’s great. I’ve got a lot of stories about growing up, working in a, in a boat hardware(9:09) store and learning how to, learning how to behave with others.

Right. And so same, same kind of (9:17) thing. You know, the, the, the biggest customer could be coming in and in grubby shorts because (9:22) he’s painting something on his boat that week, or maybe he’s hung over or something.

I don’t know, (9:27) but you know, you never know who you’re talking to treat everybody with respect. (9:31) And there’s always something interesting to learn when you’re, when you’re young and you get exposed (9:35) to business. And I remember one of the, one of the things that I learned was we just always have (9:41) to sweep the parking lot.

So we had, we had a, we had a sidewalk in front of the door, but the (9:45) parking lot was a gravel sidewalk. So I’d have to be out on the road, sweeping the rocks back into (9:50) back into the parking lot to make sure the parking lot looks good. And, and I was out there with one (9:55) morning with, I was probably 13 years old and I’m out there with, with a, with an 18 year old.

(10:01) I remember the kid was, he was graduating high school that year. And how old were you? I think (10:07) I was about 13. Got it.

And I’m watching this older guy, right. Who’s, who’s 18. He’s grabbing (10:13) the grocery carts basically, and bringing them back into the store and, and a, and a customer (10:18) pulls up, you know, so somebody probably in their forties and this 18 year old says to him, how’s it (10:23) going? And here I am 13 going, how’s it going? He, he can talk to a grownup like that, huh? You know? (10:30) And so then I, you know, then when the customer would come in and say, how’s it going? How are you (10:34) doing today? Instead of saying, you know, hi or whatever a 13 year old might say, you know, more (10:39) sheepishly, I was going in there and just having the conversation.

And you know, the things that (10:44) you learn, it’s almost like, you know, you learn on the street, right. Different than anything you (10:48) learned in school. School didn’t teach me to walk up to an adult and say, you know, how are you doing (10:54) today? What can I help you with? You know, I learned that from watching somebody older than me.

(10:58) And to me, that 18 year old at the time looked, you know, was the guy I was looking up to the most. (11:04) You know, I learned a lot from my parents. You know, both my mom and dad are of Sicilian descent.

(11:14) All four of my grandparents came from pretty much the same town in Sicily. And, you know,(11:22) my legal name is Salvatore. Nobody called me Salvatore other than my mom.

My name was Sam (11:30) because they wanted us to be American. They wanted us to fit in. So unfortunately, I never learned to (11:38) speak Italian.

My parents were too lazy to go in the other room and talk about us. So they would (11:44) just speak Sicilian in front of us. So we learned all the swear words and what have you.

But, you (11:51) know, I had and still have a very blessed and unique upbringing. I’m the fifth son.(11:58) My oldest brother is only five and a half years older than me.

So my mom knocked him out pretty (12:04) quick. I do have a younger sister. We’re all here.

You know, my parents are both gone now, (12:10) but and we get along. Great. We, you know, I’m thinking in terms of, you know, the work ethic (12:17) that I learned from my father and, you know, never to talk down to anybody.

But I probably (12:24) learned more from my mom than my father. My mom and dad were both pretty tough, demanding parents. (12:33) My mom, you know, if there’s a couple of things that jump out to me, it would be things like (12:43) in its workforce.

If you got an issue with someone, if there’s a problem, don’t let it fester, (12:52) call them out, have a sit down, talk about it, address the issue, kiss and make up and on you (13:00) go. And I got to tell you, it’s worked for us, not only in family environment, you know, the family (13:07) environment, but it’s in business too. You know, we do a lot of hunting.

You know, our company (13:17) is growing. So if someone does something, I just call them out. And not everybody can do that.

(13:28) Because some folks just don’t like confrontation. Yeah, I think most don’t like confrontation. Most (13:33) don’t.

I don’t mind it because I’ve been trained to deal with it and move on. The other (13:41) thing that just jumps out to me that I learned from my mother is always acknowledge presence. (13:52) Make sure you say hello and goodbye to people.

But even more so, as you are, I’m in a very (13:58) competitive business. And we have a number of events where my competition is there. And, you (14:04) know, you try to get along with everyone.

Some of them are a little envious because you took (14:09) something from them that they had. And it’s exhausting to see someone who you don’t particularly (14:17) care for and avoid them. So I just go right up to them.

I say hello to them. (14:22) I get it out of the way. And on you go.

And some of them are just freaked out by it. (14:29) And is it a genuine friendliness, though, from your perspective, do you think? (14:33) No. You know, that’s a good question.

(14:39) Is it the right thing to do? (14:41) It’s absolutely the right thing to do. You show respect for people. (14:44) So even though you might not find the friendship inside of you or that feeling, there’s a mutual (14:51) respect.

That’s what’s allowing or at least you’re respecting them in order to do that. (14:57) Is that the point? (14:58) Maybe. I’m also respecting my mother.

And when she said you always acknowledge presence. (15:04) So I just do it. And the other things that I learned from both my parents, because we (15:12) came from humble beginnings, is always be humble and always give other people credit.

(15:21) So if we win a deal or if there’s an acknowledgement to be made, and I try to (15:27) teach this to my kids to be humble, give other people credit. And those are good philosophies (15:34) and principles to live by. They work for us.

They work for me. (15:41) My siblings are some of the most incredible people. My eldest brother is a physician, (15:47) now retired.

Brother number two is in the real estate business. Not what I do. He’s more (15:55) residential.

Brother number three owns a wood floor business. Brother number four was in the (16:02) check cashing business. And my sister is married to a gentleman that owns a restaurant on the (16:11) Detroit River called Sinbad’s.

And we just all get along. My father, when we were kids, (16:20) he would grab the five of us, the five boys, and say, you know, I don’t worry about you kids, (16:25) you brothers getting along when you get older. But when you get married, it’s going to be a (16:30) challenge.

Because women could, you know, who has more than the other? And it could get contentious.(16:38) And it really never has. You know, all we really, you know, when people, now that my mom and dad are (16:46) both gone, some people would ask me things like, you know, did you fight over money? You know, (16:53) most families fight over money when it’s, you know, we didn’t have a tremendous amount of money, (16:57) but there was a little bit of money.

I said, yeah, we fought. Oh, that’s unfortunate. I said, (17:03) no, no, you don’t get it.

You know, a couple of us had borrowed money. And we decided to (17:15) to start out with a clean slate. And one sibling in particular didn’t want to hear it.

He said, (17:22) I should pay it back. And we said, no, we’re starting with the clean slate. So we didn’t (17:29) really fight over money.

But that just shows you the kind of siblings and it’s a very unique (17:35) situation that we have. And I don’t know too many people who have something like that. (17:40) No, you don’t.

You don’t normally hear the fight of I want to give money back. Excuse me. (17:45) You know, the other thing is, is as I said, we’ve been so blessed.

We haven’t had any (17:52) divorce in our family, which is, you know, six of us now. Statistically, you’re (17:58) now now beating the odds. Now, two of them we killed and one we threw in the trunk for a few (18:02) hours.

But no, no divorce. Good. So I’m joking.

Nice. Some people would take exception to that. (18:09) So I like to joke around a lot.

It’s part of my demeanor. It’s part of my sales technique. And (18:15) it doesn’t work for everybody.

I think it works for most. I don’t know. You read the room pretty (18:20) well.

Excuse me. So. So let’s let’s let’s talk about let’s talk about kind of your career a (18:29) little bit and how you got where you’re at right now and what you’re doing.

And then let’s let’s (18:33) dovetail that into talking about Detroit a little bit. So I mentioned my dad was a grocer and we had (18:40) a store and I worked there for several years and I didn’t like it. I didn’t like being at the (18:47) same place at the same time and doing the same thing every day.

And my father would look at me (18:53) and say, you know, be careful what you wish for, because all you got to do is show up and they (18:58) bring the money to you. And my reaction was, Dad, this isn’t for me. I’d rather go out and find the (19:04) money.

And because I got to have every day, every day has to be different. Otherwise, I’m just I’m (19:12) just going to stagnate. So, you know, I grew up in Grosse Pointe.

I went to Michigan State, got my (19:23) undergrad and went to law school. I practiced law for a few years. I really wasn’t crazy about doing (19:31) the same thing every day and being in an office.

And I got recruited by one of my law school (19:39) classmates and said, you were born to sell. You need to be selling something. So I went and worked (19:46) for a company at the time called Byron Treras, commercial real estate consultants.

And then 18 (19:53) months later, I joined a company called Signature Associates. I spent 20 years there. And then (20:01) boy, it’s almost it’s 14 years now.

I got recruited by a firm out of Chicago called (20:07) Advocate Advisors. And they immediately made me company president. I opened up the Southfield (20:14) office at the time.

I think we were maybe four or five of us. And we’re now up to 50. It’s been a (20:22) slow, steady growth, but we are growing.

We are hiring. And business is good. COVID was a… (20:34) So what I do, what our company does is we represent Fortune 500 companies.

We do their (20:41) real estate consulting for them. We are only on the user side of the equation. So in our (20:48) industry, we’re called tenant rep brokers.

So if you’re a tenant, or if you own a building, (20:56) we can help you. If you want to lease a building, it’s something we don’t touch. So we don’t (21:03) represent landlords.

We take the conflict of interest very seriously in our industry, (21:08) in our business. So we’re conflict free. So when you hire us and we go out to market, (21:14) I’m going to digress a little bit.

I always wanted to be a sports agent. (21:20) And this is about as close as I could ever get. So when I get hired by a Walbridge, or a Clark Hill, (21:28) or some of our other clients, and we go out to market, every landlord in town wants them as a (21:36) tenant.

And many of our clients often stay right where they’re at. So it’s a fine line of (21:46) making sure that you communicate with each of these landlords, because at the end of the day, (21:52) there’s going to be one winner and two or three losers. And these are landlords that I got to deal (21:59) with over and over and over again.

So communicating is important so that they know what they’re up (22:04) against. But it’s fun. I really enjoy what I do.

I’m 65 years old. Retirement is not imminent. (22:15) We’ve got a number of young, very talented people that we’ve hired and continue to hire.

(22:21) I like mentoring them and watching them grow. And we’re having a blast doing it. (22:28) That’s great.

Touching on something that you and I talked about (22:32) multiple times, but I think it dovetails right back into what you were talking about, was (22:38) the communication with those landlords along the way. One, that you’re going into a situation (22:44) that you know statistically that the client, your client, is more likely to stay than they are to (22:50) move in many of these situations. And two, you know there’s going to be winners and losers.

And (22:56) three, you know you’re going to be bumping into these people on a regular basis. So you would (23:01) talk to me about communication and how communication is such an important part of your (23:07) business and that ghosting is not in your vocabulary. Can you expound upon that a little (23:14) bit? Maybe tell a story or two about that? Well, it just blows me away that how some folks (23:24) can ignore a text message, an email, a phone call.

It’s just so easy to communicate nowadays (23:34) that there really is no excuse for it. So I’m a communicator and it’s a fine line where you know (23:43) if a prospective landlord is asking, what’s it going to take to get in my building? What do I (23:50) need to do? You know you’re leveraging one deal against another but you got to be very careful (23:56) that you’re not breaching any confidences or confidential information that you know. So it’s (24:04) a real delicate balance.

But at the end of the day, you just want to try to treat people the same way (24:14) that you would like to be treated. And I just really get upset when you know if I’m looking to (24:22) buy a car or whatever and you just don’t hear back from someone. You know we have a rule in our (24:27) office that if you don’t respond back or communicate within 24 hours that’s just not, (24:34) we don’t allow that to happen.

Not acceptable. No and yeah ghosting is just something that just (24:40) really I could feel the the hair on the back of my neck stick up when you when you mentioned the (24:44) word. You know and it’s prevalent out there and it’s it’s easy to do but it’s just not acceptable.

(24:53) We just, I was just at a game for one of my sons last night, soccer game, talking to one of the (24:59) dads who’s a CFO looking for his next gig and he was telling me that he was on his fifth(25:07) interview with an organization and then they ghosted him. Oh wow. Didn’t hear from him for (25:13) for three or four weeks.

Still has never heard from him but somehow got some word back through (25:18) from the recruiter that they’ve changed their mind. But the lack of decorum there of no communication(25:24) back and it I just don’t understand it. The hard conversations are what are what makes you(25:34) honorable.

You know they probably did him a favor by not hiring him. They showed what kind (25:41) of organization they were. The culture.

Yeah. You know it starts from the top down so yeah I (25:50) again you know it’s a different world now and it’s so easy to communicate with people on (25:57) different levels and I just I just don’t get it. You know I liken it to some of it is (26:04) you know kind of generational right.

I look at it and I think when you look at you know so somebody (26:14) my age when text messaging came out right and the internet was budding it was called instant (26:21) messenger. So I think in my mind I always think instant right. So if somebody texts me I try to (26:27) text them back as quickly as possible.

Now sometimes I get a bunch I forget or I’m in a meeting right (26:32) we’re human but generally speaking I try to be as instant as possible as I can in those types of (26:39) situations. Whereas I think that if you grew up with text messaging kind of as your primary (26:44) original forms of communication I think it’s and you watch it right. You see people look at a text (26:51) and kind of set it down right.

And believe me it’s a delicate balance because you’re trying to (26:56) be intentional and and present with the person that you’re with but you also have to make sure (27:02) that your follow-up is is there. I had a person tell me we were introduced by our insurance person (27:10) a long time ago by by our friend Paul Glantz from Imagine Theatres. And Paul said this is the guy (27:15) this is the guy you have to work with.

So his name is Brian Polarski. So he was he was I know Brian (27:19) you know Brian. Okay so you know Brian said that that he prides himself he says look I can’t (27:26) differentiate myself in a whole lot of ways except from my accessibility and my response.

(27:32) And so he said what what you have you have my word on is that when you try to communicate with me (27:38) I will respond. Yeah and you know you’re right Brian is a very good communicator. He is he is but (27:44) it but it takes look what it takes to do it right.

It takes a focus of that I mean it’s it’s intentional. (27:50) You know I was kind of smirking a little bit when you’re it is a generational thing how you (27:57) communicate. I have four children two girls and then two boys.

One of my daughters was asked to go (28:04) to prom or what have you via text message. Oh. And she said how do I respond to this? (28:14) I said well do you want to go with them? She said maybe.

I said then let me respond. (28:18) So I grabbed her phone and we were fighting. I said I just I just he’s asking you to go to a (28:28) so I tried to explain to her that social skills that are so crucial and how to deal and communicate (28:35) with people are being lost.

And you know it’s just it’s just my you know text messaging is (28:46) an incredibly effective way to communicate especially late at night where you don’t (28:52) want to have a phone conversation with someone. Email is great but there’s just certain things (28:59) that that you just don’t do and that that may be not a great example. I don’t know I just (29:09) you know I might my kids look at me and shake their head and say you’re just you’re an old man (29:14) dad you don’t you don’t get it dad you don’t get it.

Maybe they’re right maybe I don’t get it. (29:19) I do think there’s some tried and true laws of nature though right and communication is one of (29:25) them. There’s a George Bernard Shaw quote that says and I have the poster it says the illusion (29:30) of communication is that it actually occurred right.

And so that can go yeah that’s a good (29:36) point. They can go a number of different ways right. One way it can be is that oh I thought I (29:40) said your shirt was was nice right.

And and you may have heard that as you could have heard that (29:46) as sarcasm. You could have heard that you could have misinterpreted what I said. You could you (29:51) could have thought I said your hair has lice.

I’m seeing a lot of I’m seeing a lot of a lot of feuds (29:58) over a text message that can be misinterpreted. You bet. Just pick up the phone and call them.

(30:07) Yeah you know I’ve sent out some text messages and the reply back was (30:11) you know what are you telling me. Well that’s not what I meant. You know and then you call (30:16) them and it goes into voicemail.

So in any event you’re trying to clarify and it goes back to what (30:22) my mom taught us. I mean if you got an issue with someone just call them out sit down and talk about (30:27) Yeah I think it’s good advice. Good advice for mom.

I will say this about ways to communicate. (30:38) COVID had a devastating impact on on our business because we primarily represent tenants. And I get (30:47) asked all the time you know what what are what are companies doing as far as going back to work and (30:52) and what have you.

You know this morning we had a team’s call with a prospective client. (31:02) And it’s hard to build trust and a long-term relationship with someone over over a screen. (31:11) And I asked if we could you know have a face-to-face meeting after the fact (31:17) and they agreed to do that.

And and that’s where I think I’ll be able to (31:21) make more of an impact and differentiate yourself. But Teams and and Zoom calls (31:29) are incredibly effective with those you already have a relationship with. So we have some clients (31:36) that we do business with all over the country.

We either have weekly or bi-weekly or monthly (31:42) calls with them. And I can do it from home. I can do it in my office.

And I think one of the (31:49) positives out of COVID even though we had that technology and you’re in the technology industry (31:54) I’m not. Is it was kind of like steroids for for your industry. Yeah it was an it was an injection (32:03) of of energy and it it catapulted that technology.

That technology would have continued to (32:09) proliferate over time. It just fast-forwarded it five years. Couldn’t agree more.

But to develop a (32:16) new relationship and there’s there’s some handicaps to it you know. So a lot of our clients now are (32:24) you know really depends on the industry. We represent a number of different clients.

(32:30) You know law, accounting, insurance, many high-end office users. And we do a lot of we had to pivot. (32:38) So we do a lot of manufacturing, warehousing.

We’ve got a number of industrial clients that have (32:43) locations throughout the country. But I think what’s happening with COVID we’re coming out of (32:53) it now. So immediately in the middle of COVID many of my clients would say we just don’t know what (33:01) to do.

We’re not going to the office. We’ve hit the pause button. So we would approach a landlord(33:07) and ask for a one-year extension.

Now most landlords will tell you they’re not interested (33:12) in a one-year extension. There’s holdover provisions and a lease to force a tenant to (33:17) make a decision. But during that time frame they were very amenable to doing a one-year extension (33:25) or a short-term extension so that our clients could figure out their business plan.

(33:31) Many of our clients have downsized or right-sized. When you say downsized or right-sized do you mean (33:37) in terms of staff or do you mean in terms of square footage of commercial? Both. But what (33:44) they’re doing now you know we’ve got clients that had 80,000 square feet they now have 12 (33:50) depending on the industry.

But what they’re doing is they’re signing long-term leases. They’re now (33:56) signing minimum five more often ten sometimes 15-year leases which is good for for everyone (34:05) because they can now see the forest through the tunnel. (34:09) Many of our clients have sent out surveys again depending on the industry but Clark Hill in (34:15) particular which is one of our portfolio clients a law firm I think they’re Michigan’s largest law (34:21) firm.

They sent out a survey a couple years back asking you know how many days a week are you going (34:28) to be in the office. They sent it out to the attorneys, the paralegals, the associates,(34:32) staff and if you came back and said I plan on being in the office three days or more a week(34:39) you got an office. If you came back and said you know maybe one day a week maybe two you didn’t.

(34:49) So the whole idea of cohabitation space, collaboration space, the furniture vendors (34:57) that are selling a different type of concept has really evolved. I know Clark Hill space looks (35:02) vastly different now than it did in the past. Not a lot of private offices maybe a handful a lot of(35:09) open collaboration space.

So there’s been a lot of changes but I just don’t hear about it as much (35:17) as I used to which is great. I mean how has COVID affected your business or has it? (35:25) You know like you said during COVID we had the boom of we had kind of a paradoxal (35:32) thing going on right. We had customers who were contracting and customers who were growing and so (35:37) for us it was kind of we were net up overall.

The customers really needed a lot of help with (35:43) the moving to remote and learning the remote skills right and making sure that things were (35:50) secure when they were while they’re remote and so a lot of that has held over. So cyber security (35:55) did better or started to you know grow during that time for everyone but you know it certainly (36:04) changed us during the time. I mean it’s kind of same things that a lot of Zoom meetings, (36:09) a lot of Teams meetings, things of that nature but more people needing support in just a different (36:14) way.

You know where they had buildings where they maybe even had someone supporting the team.(36:22) Our co-managed IT grew quite a bit during COVID and what that is where we come alongside of the (36:27) internal IT team and what happened was is because if you had 100 people in a building (36:34) that one person who’s on site there can take care of a lot of those people. Now when you have 100 (36:38) people in 100 different buildings, meaning their homes, it’s a big challenge and so (36:44) and then you’re operating with 100 different infrastructures right.

100 different Comcast (36:49) modems at those places and not all of them are Comcast. Plus you don’t do residential. (36:54) Plus we don’t do residential except in that case.

But yeah so it was definitely a (37:00) learning curve but I mean it was a net positive in terms of we grew during the time rather (37:06) than contracted. So I know that you know I was thankful to not be in the restaurant business (37:10) at that point in time. We were considered an essential service so we didn’t really have any (37:15) of those handcuffs placed on us by the government which was amazing.

We had so many friends and (37:23) customers that had those. So yeah I’m glad it’s over. You were busy.

This episode of the BLTNT (37:30) podcast is sponsored by Auxium. Business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. (37:36) Empowered by Juniper Networks.

Automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Myst AI (37:40) platform. The world’s first AI driven wired and wireless network. So you have competition like (37:49) I have competition.

We do. So how do you differentiate yourself? You know some of the structure (37:58) by which we operate the packages that we offer have a differentiation but I think it always comes (38:03) down to your people and your work ethic. And you know how do you how do you follow through with(38:08) what you say you’re going to do.

Our company got started because I was frustrated with with the (38:14) IT companies that were serving our company. So I come at it from the client side of things versus (38:19) the IT guy side of things. So that that has peppered itself into our culture long term.

(38:27) You know to say how can we be as client centric as possible at all times. And that’s the that’s (38:33) the plan. We also have just continued to invest and plow back into the company.

So we started off (38:41) like for example we we’ve significantly grown our cybersecurity presence. We hired the (38:47) former chief information security officer from Lear. So somebody from big business helping being (38:54) able to help people from businesses that size on down smaller.

And that’s a big investment. That’s (38:59) a big investment for a company like ours. There’s a lot of companies like ours that are leveraging (39:03) third parties and consultants and things like that.

And we decided we’re going to invest in-house in (39:08) that because cybersecurity is at the at the core of what we you know what we’re what we’re trying (39:14) to deliver for our clients. So do you guys do like us a lot of hunting a lot of cold calling (39:20) you get sales people calling on? Yeah we so we do a little bit less of the less of the cold calling. (39:25) It’s more of account based marketing.

So there’s people that we’ve identified that we are trying to (39:30) do business with because we believe we’re a good fit for. We know that we’re not a good fit for (39:34) everyone. That’s not saying that I wouldn’t employ the the cold calling techniques if I had a little (39:40) bit more bandwidth on the sales side.

But ours is more targeted. We do events we go to events where (39:46) we know our prospective people are. We leverage relationships through folks like you.

So not a (39:53) whole lot of not a whole lot of phone in the phone crazy. But but also not a whole lot of crazy (40:00) science or algorithms to it. It’s it’s it’s good old fashioned you know networking who we know (40:06) you know making sure we you know that we’re we’re built every client is referenceable.

So (40:13) building relationships with clients that are referenceable so that they want to (40:17) bring us to their friends. Yeah and I know we have a couple of mutual clients (40:23) and that’s been beneficial. And yeah I’m just interested because we’re we’re pounding the (40:29) phones.

We do all the above. I don’t cold call anymore. I’ve been doing this long enough to know (40:37) that.

And LinkedIn is an important part of my (40:42) protocol. And so if we have a call with like we had today with a certain gentleman I already (40:50) knew that he was connected with and friends with a few people. So that kind of because you gotta (40:56) be able to differentiate yourself.

People are going to be on a call or meet with you. (41:01) You know you’re you’re you’re a salesman. So the defense mechanisms are are up.

And you know I (41:09) don’t know if it’s through humor or mutual relationships or follow up or all of the (41:15) above. But you’ve got to be able to do you know. And I got some great stories of you know because (41:22) I tell my salespeople that business is everywhere.

You just got to be able to have a nose for it (41:30) and ask the question you know what do you do for a living that sort of thing. And (41:34) I just always thought that everybody had that skill set. And I realize that many don’t.

They (41:41) just they’re just not comfortable asking questions and learning more. Well I think it’s the skill (41:47) set but I also think it’s that that you also have to kind of earn your bones too right. You (41:52) I don’t know if you remember this whatever the tipping point was for you.

But I remember that (41:59) right around the age of you know 35 to 40 you know was when all of a sudden you’re your your (42:09) own circle are people that are in your network that are people that are potential customers of (42:16) yours. So the cold calling piece of your business kind of can die down a little bit because you have (42:21) the relationships with people you know like like we have we have common friends who are in the (42:25) insurance and benefits business. And we know that between all of us that that that we might know (42:33) we know some common people.

That common person will say that they have a need in real estate. (42:38) You know we would we would bring you on board or they say they have a need in IT and you’d say hey (42:42) you should call Matt. But that doesn’t really happen as much when you’re in your 20s.

And that’s (42:48) where that cold calling and that’s where pounding the pavement and kind of earning your bones (42:52) kind of comes up I think. And it’s like it’s in your sales style can change then and just kind (42:58) of where the business comes from can change at different different points in your life. (43:03) So we got sales people that make over 100 calls a day and that’s that’s not an easy life you know.

(43:12) And trying to get someone on the phone and then when you do get them on the phone it’s a quick (43:15) call and that sort of thing. So I’m always telling them you got to be able to differentiate (43:22) yourself and provide value. So if you get someone on the phone and they’re in a certain building (43:27) tell them that we represented XYZ company in your building or the building’s going back to the lender (43:32) or whatever.

Everybody wants to know what their competition’s doing you know. So we we we represent(43:39) a lot of law firms and we call on a lot of law firms. Doesn’t mean we get in the door.

(43:44) But I’m just thinking of one story where we pitched a client and (43:52) we had met with their COO two or three times and now we’re meeting the CFO. And they went from (44:02) eight different firms to four now they were down to two. And we’re going up against one of our (44:10) very aggressive competitors who has an entirely different style than than I do.

The gentleman (44:17) that we were meeting with for the first time had an Italian last name which really doesn’t mean a (44:22) whole lot. And you you don’t want to go down that path unless you’re comfortable. But we you know (44:28) we’re in fact we’re doing it this weekend Matt.

We we do our we jar tomato sauce. It’s it’s a family (44:34) endeavor. So we we have I’ll have to get you a jar.

That’d be great. So we went to the meeting (44:43) and you always try to anticipate what what may or may not happen. So I brought two jars of sauce, (44:48) big jars.

So and I had them in a bag and I told now my managing director Jim Berkmeyer, (44:55) keep these in a bag and there’s 90 percent chance I’m not going to pull them out. So the meeting(45:01) went okay and then we’re getting ready to break up. And he said to me he said you know your last (45:07) name is Monaco.

Where are your people from? I’m not even sure you could even ask that question (45:13) anymore. But and I told him he goes you know we’re we’re from a different town not too so we started(45:19) talking like family and upbringing and I realized that his Italian culture was important to him. I (45:25) said so I wasn’t sure how this was going to go but we’re we’re pretty hardcore.

We really try to keep (45:31) the family traditions. We jar our own sauce so I brought these for you. So I put two big jars (45:37) on the on the table.

He said oh two jars this must be a big deal. I said well it’s it’s a big deal (45:44) but we’ve worked on bigger deals. He said so but two jars right because and that’s a lot.

I said (45:52) well yeah but I said just so you know because I believe in transparency one is good and the (45:59) other’s got like rat poison in it. He said I’m sorry what’d you say? I said one’s good and the (46:05) other’s I put some rat poison in it. So he looked at me he says you know you’re out of your fucking (46:10) mind don’t you? I said I’ve been I’ve been told that.

He said so how do I know what to do? I said (46:17) that’s my point. Right now you don’t know if you’re gonna stay or you’re gonna move out of (46:21) Detroit and go to Southfield. We will help you navigate the path because you’re out of your mind.

(46:28) So we left and I looked at my team I said you know I think we differentiated ourselves. I’m not (46:38) sure if it worked well. So a couple days later he called me he says you know we decided it was a (46:44) really close battle and you know I was waiting for the but and we decided to hire you.

So wow (46:53) that’s terrific we’re gonna we’re really excited. I said can I ask why? He goes sure. I said it was (46:59) the sauce right? The tomato sauce? He goes no.

I said come on that didn’t sway you? He goes not at (47:07) all. He said so what I did and I’ve never heard anyone do this before he says when we went from (47:15) four to two I called number three and I called number four to tell them that they weren’t (47:21) getting the business. They’re out.

And it took them a long time to understand that they were out and I (47:27) asked them of the two who would you hire and they both said advocate advisors in San Monaco. I said (47:35) wow and why was that? He said well they had a number of reasons. That you’re transparent, (47:41) you work hard, you’re a good communicator and you’re one of the few in your industry that when(47:48) you lose, nobody does this in my business, when you lose and it’s a fair fight you call and you (47:53) congratulate them.

And they remember that. That’s why I’m hiring you not because of the sauce. (47:59) Wow.

He says and by the way which which one’s good which one’s bad? I said they’re both (48:05) they’re both good. Good. So do you think you threw those out and just in case or you think (48:10) you actually hurt him? No because he’s on the annual gift giving program.

So you know this is someone (48:18) who’s now retired and I keep in contact with him. I make you know we’re talking about differentiating (48:25) yourself. That may or may not be a good example but at a very early age before Microsoft Outlook (48:35) and calendars on your phone.

I had index cards. I make over 300 birthday calls a year (48:45) and it’s easy to text someone. I call them and I got friends from kindergarten and grade school (48:53) call them on their birthday and they say I’m expecting the call Sam.

When is your birthday? (48:58) And I said it doesn’t matter and I hang up because I hate when people call me on my birthday. (49:03) But I do this with clients. It’s just a good way to stay relevant, stay in touch (49:08) because when we sign a deal with a client it’s a five or a ten-year deal.

There really isn’t (49:13) much for us to do. So what happens during that time frame is young pups like I was (49:20) they start calling on them and people retire. People go to different jobs.

So I want to stay (49:26) relevant. I want to stay in their face so that when that lease comes up for renewal it’s seamless. (49:32) At least that’s what I try to do.

You know somebody told me one of the best rules in life (49:42) and maybe life and in business you can take it in both is to provide value in excess of what the (49:48) person has paid you for. Now so you could use that as a customer and so that customer you know (49:53) you got a commission for that lease. You’re putting work into them in excess of the job (50:01) that you were paid for in some ways.

Now maybe that’s just through personal relationships or (50:06) whatnot but every relationship that I go into and every lunch or meeting whatever you want to say (50:12) I always go into it thinking who could I introduce this person to? Who would it be (50:17) valuable for that person to know? Because it’s always worked out in my in my world that (50:23) the Zig Ziglar right you can help enough. If you help enough people get what they want you’ll get (50:28) what you want or something along those lines. But if you provide value first and don’t expect (50:35) anything to come from it good things happen every single time.

Maybe not every single (50:41) time but in the law of averages good things always happen. That’s a powerful connection (50:47) where you can bring someone value or make an introduction. I try to do that.

I like connecting (50:53) people. I know you’re a connector. But it might be just sauce right? I mean sometimes it’s just (50:59) giving them sauce or saying happy birthday or whatever it is but what’s the value? And maybe (51:05) you have other stories of providing value in excess of what the person has paid you for.

Do (51:10) you have an example of that? I got all kinds of examples but you know it’s maybe I’m getting off (51:15) topic but you know our three uniques that really differentiate our company is we represent tenants (51:24) only and we’re conflict free. Okay great but there are other companies that do that. Second unique is (51:30) what you see is what you get.

You know we’re a small enough company. We’re not a CBRE or a JLL (51:36) where you’re gonna get hired on an account and then pass it off to a junior associate. We work (51:43) on the deals.

We’re involved and then our third unique is our compensation model which is really (51:49) different because we get hired by the tenant but we get paid by the landlord which is a conflict(51:57) and many of our clients don’t know what we’re getting paid. Now some of them don’t care because (52:02) if they get a terrific deal but we disclose you know in the spirit of being transparent (52:09) we disclose what our fee is to our client even though they’re not paying. They’re paying it (52:14) indirectly in the rental rate and if we weren’t providing value we would be out of business.

So (52:19) we disclose to our tenant what our fee is. This is something that Roger Staubach did. Remember Roger (52:24) Staubach the quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys? Yes.

He was the inventor. I’m not a big sports (52:29) guy so I don’t remember everything but I’m leaving. I know a couple of sports people.

So I’m sure you do. (52:34) So Roger Staubach who went to Navy, Heisman Trophy winner, Dallas Cowboy quarterback, (52:41) you know Hall of Famer, started the tenant rep model. So and this is a concept that we (52:50) have also implemented.

So we disclose to our client what our fee is. Okay. And 100% of that fee (53:00) is at their discretion.

So if we drop the ball, we underperform, we don’t do all the things that (53:07) we said we were going to do, if they’re chasing us, if we’re not communicating with them, (53:13) they can take up to 100% of our fee. Now they got to be reasonable. There’s some you know they can’t (53:20) say I don’t like the tie that you’re wearing and I have learned over so when I got pitched by (53:27) my CEO Craig Bram to leave where I was at and go run Advocate and he explained this (53:35) concept to us I thought he’s out of his mind.

You know my clients they don’t they don’t care. (53:41) I don’t want to disclose to them what our fee is and when you buy life insurance you know what the (53:45) fee is that the agent’s making? No not exactly. Well you should know.

So we disclose it and what (53:51) I have found out is two things. 98% of the time our clients really aren’t interested in our fee. (54:00) We have some mutual clients they don’t ask.

And those that drill upon what’s the fee you know (54:07) how’s this going to work they’re not a good fit for us. You know if they don’t want to provide (54:12) if they’re so worried about what the fee is then there’s usually a correlation that they don’t have (54:18) a good work environment for their you know. So when we’re being interviewed and vetted I’m also (54:24) vetting the client very carefully.

We got hired by a very large law firm recently. (54:32) I don’t want to disclose their name but they don’t have a good they don’t really care about (54:38) their office environment and if they don’t care about their employees then they’re not someone (54:44) that we want to do business with. And I also learned years ago from a very dear friend of mine (54:50) by the name of Tony Furlito.

I don’t know if you know Tony Furlito. The builder? The builder. (54:57) And like all of us we’ve had our ups and downs especially in that industry and he said Sam (55:03) I’m to the point in my career now that I only want to deal with people that have a heart.

(55:11) And if you don’t want to if you don’t have a heart and if you don’t care about others (55:14) I’m not doing business with you. And I said Tony well how do you know that? (55:19) He said Sam you can tell. If you have a heart you got a heart I got a heart you can tell.

(55:25) So I only want to work you know one of the reasons why I’m here today Matt is because you have a heart. (55:32) You didn’t have to come to my house and by the way you still got to come back. (55:36) I send more qualified people now.

No I’m joking you’ve done a terrific job. (55:43) It’s the little things the little details that are important. Another story we pitched a very (55:50) large architectural firm.

They’ve interviewed a number of companies I won’t mention who they (55:56) are but we’re it’s down to two. And the competition that we’re up against is a very formidable (56:04) competitor. I can usually you know if it’s CBRE or JLL I can I can conflict them out because they (56:10) represent landlords.

This other particular firm does very much the same kind of work that we do. (56:19) And so I met with the CFO he mentioned a local restaurant Italian restaurant that he likes to go (56:27) to in Sterling Heights. I happened and I asked if he’d like to dine there and so now he goes no (56:32) next week is out I’m traveling and by the way I’m going there tonight.

(56:36) Well it’s a restaurant called Da Francesco. I’ve been there and oh yeah so Dominic’s a(56:42) dear friend of ours and one of my brothers and I really thought long and hard about it.(56:47) I’m going to buy this guy dinner that could backfire.

Sure. So I called one of my partners (56:54) who’s part of it and I said what do you think? He says well I think two things Sam. Number one (56:57) you’re going to do it regardless of what I tell you to do.

And I think it would be I think it’ll (57:02) be a nice touch and and if we don’t get hired because you bought him dinner then he’s not a (57:08) good fit for us. Correct. So I did and the waitress was instructed if and when he asked who bought (57:15) dinner the you know she was to say and she did no comment.

So he texted me after or no her response (57:23) was none of your business. So he texted me after he says I went to Da Francesco I had dinner and (57:30) there was no bill. Do you know anything about that? And I replied no comment.

Yeah. And it (57:37) really took the relationship to the next level because you said you know the devil’s in the (57:42) details. It was I said we look out for our clients.

We really want to get hired by you and (57:46) work on this and if we don’t that’s okay too. So this is a guy that I’ve had a number of teams (57:55) calls with never met personally and I did ask I said you know I’m frustrated because I’m not good (58:02) on these calls. So we had lunch this past Monday and I think we got a very good chance of getting (58:10) hired and if we don’t then and you know I can sleep at night knowing that we’ve done everything (58:15) sure possible.

Now that’s backfired where I got automotive clients where I buy them a case of (58:20) and they’re like dude I can’t do this or send them concert tickets. Right. You can’t so you got to (58:26) know your audience but you got to differentiate yourself and sometimes you just got to take a (58:31) you just got to take a chance.

Okay Sam there’s one thing I wanted to talk to you about was (58:40) you know you do all this you do all this networking you do all this you’re out and about (58:45) right you’re in the community all the time that’s hard right that gets that gets tiring (58:51) you know I always have the commitment of I’m trying to be home for every game I’m trying to (58:57) be home for every you know putting the kids to bed every night if if at all possible so that’s (59:00) that’s my goal but I’m out there too and and I’ve learned that that I have to say yes to a lot of (59:08) things and you know but it’s a delicate balance so can you talk about you know saying yes to things (59:14) who do you listen to for that you know how do you decide because it’s almost infinite right like (59:20) you you invited me to an event up in up in Traverse City right I did that we went to and so we you (59:27) know we kind of took a little beeline we were in the region but it was a waste of time wasn’t it (59:31) it was a little I mean it wasn’t a waste of time because we got to hang out with you and (59:34) and your wife so and you met some you met uh Tom Agonillo yeah met Tom got to see Kurt got to see(59:39) people that I hadn’t seen in a while so no I mean none of it’s truly not not nothing is truly ever (59:45) a waste of time but it’s a balance right um you got any got any advice or stories on saying yes (59:54) or saying no uh going to things not going to things well as I get older I’m saying no more (1:00:01) often to not only events but um business opportunities because you know we’re we’re (1:00:10) laser focused on what we do I mentioned earlier we don’t represent landlords we don’t do retail (1:00:15) we don’t do any medical so many times I have to say no and not chase that shiny new fish (1:00:23) but saying yes I mean it can be exhausting going to so many different networking events and trade (1:00:30) shows and um it’s hard to say no to my wife I do have an example that that really did pan out for (1:00:38) us uh my daughter was graduating this is 2012 from Notre Dame Prep High School uh one of her (1:00:46) classmates lived down the street I really liked him uh but it was a Sunday and you know my wife (1:00:53) and I have like a 24-hour rule if she doesn’t you know so like literally 10 minutes before we have (1:00:59) to go to this graduate I’m not going it’s because she didn’t tell you 24 hours in advance part of (1:01:05) it okay I didn’t you know um the lions were on and what in 2012 who knows I mean it was probably a(1:01:13) good reason to get out of the house well you the point is you didn’t really want to go I had no (1:01:18) intention of going so I begrudgingly went she said just just go for 15 minutes and and I went (1:01:24) because I like the young man he used to play golf at uh I’d give him golf passes to play at (1:01:29) Devil’s Ridge out in Oxford so I went I said hi and uh since we walked there I was getting ready (1:01:37) to leave and my wife said you didn’t even meet the father I I didn’t she said at least go say hello (1:01:44) to him so I introduced myself hi I’m Sam I’m hi I’m Mike I said you got a very nice uh son very (1:01:51) respectful and um you know I try to teach my salespeople always ask the question what do you (1:01:59) do for a living and I did he said oh I work at this tier one automotive supplier uh by the name (1:02:05) of Cooper Standard oh what do you do there so I head up their mergers and acquisitions (1:02:13) so I literally turned my back on him and I knew we had had a couple meetings with the gentleman (1:02:20) there and I I came back I said do you know a guy by the name of David Hocker he says David (1:02:27) reports to me how do you know him I said well we’ve we met with him we made a presentation (1:02:33) how’s it going Sam I said I think we’re one of many you know I haven’t talked to him in a few (1:02:39) months he’s not you know you don’t want to say anything negative about someone I said but you (1:02:42) know it’s just I think we’re one of many and um it really hasn’t gotten to the next level (1:02:49) first thing Monday morning my phone rings hey Sam it’s David how you doing you know (1:02:54) uh fast forward we got hired and we wound up doing a build a suit with Showstack out in um (1:03:03) out in Northville and it was one of the largest transactions we ever worked on wow and uh it was(1:03:11) just asking the question being you know at an event that I didn’t want to go (1:03:19) and and do my homework I mean I I uh you know with my phone I I you know the contact wasn’t(1:03:25) readily available and a lot of it is just a bunch of dumb luck too yeah but you gotta show up right (1:03:32) I mean that wasn’t gonna happen on your couch watching the lions no no I think I had a two-leg (1:03:39) parlay on that game or something so in any event it was um so I have a lot of stories like that (1:03:46) and again I think what’s most important um a dear friend of mine uh has you know who’s in sales (1:03:54) he owns an insurance company has said you gotta fish where the fish are at so uh early in my (1:04:01) career I joined the Detroit Athletic Club that’s been a wonderful place to to meet people and (1:04:07) and you’re not supposed to go in there and solicit business and use the directory as your (1:04:13) cold call list but you know two of the bigger deals I ever met that I ever worked on were (1:04:19) gentlemen that I met in the steam room wow just striking up a conversation one of them said you (1:04:25) know I’m really intrigued with your business model and what you do for a living um why don’t you give (1:04:30) me a call on Monday and I said I’ve been calling on you for seven years never been able to get in (1:04:36) the door he said well call me on Monday wow so um it’s it’s been a fun run it’s it’s still you know (1:04:43) chasing and networking and connecting the dots and I did touch on LinkedIn earlier (1:04:50) uh I got some great clients great relationships but many of them are retiring now so now I got (1:04:56) to get that I got to get to the next generation of of who’s taking over and that’s why you know(1:05:03) it’s great to have so many younger people part of our team because they can connect with them now (1:05:09) sure at least that’s that’s the plan that’s great that’s well I know you always have the inside line (1:05:14) on on what’s going on what what can you what can you tell us here right as we’re wrapping up it’s (1:05:20) almost Miller time and uh there’s a lot going on in Detroit the Ren Sen is a big conversation piece (1:05:26) right now of what’s going to happen to it what what do you think you can what do you think you (1:05:32) can share without ending up in the uh in the concrete uh you know in the foundation of whatever (1:05:37) the next building is no comment uh so what can I tell you I I know what everybody else knows (1:05:46) there’s been a lot of articles a lot of speculation and I think in the next three to six months (1:05:55) um your question will be answered what’s going to happen to the Ren Sen I know the mayor is adamant (1:06:04) that he does not want to see these towers torn down they’re iconic even watching Sunday night(1:06:11) football the other day what do you see most of you see the skyline of the Renaissance Center (1:06:17) uh what I think might happen and what will happen could be two different things and I’m I’m in (1:06:24) the thick of things that that I’m not at liberty to discuss right now but what I think might happen (1:06:30) is um two of the towers might come down there’s there’s there’s been talk and it’s been in the (1:06:36) paper because General Motors for sure is vacating we know that and that’s 2.2 million square feet (1:06:44) that there’s only just a handful of tenants in there so I think two towers are going to come (1:06:50) down but a lot of it most of it is going to be predicated uh Cranes wrote an article a couple (1:06:55) days ago on about 300 300 million dollars that the state of Michigan has earmarked for something okay (1:07:02) but hasn’t identified what exactly that is I’m under the belief and contention that that’s for (1:07:08) the Renaissance Center if that happens then um then then things are in play that that I’m privy to (1:07:19) otherwise um and it’s interesting you know GM again this is all public record has signed a (1:07:25) lease to move uh Bedrock has an option to purchase and GM is responsible for the demolition costs if (1:07:34) and when that happens so uh I’m working with a potential user that may be interested in moving(1:07:41) over there and I’m trying to figure out who’s going to be on the other side of the table(1:07:44) uh is it going to be GM is it going to be Bedrock or both and I’m not sure I have an answer yet but (1:07:51) I I got to believe that Bedrock’s going to have some involvement and and what people don’t realize (1:07:57) as important as the Renaissance Center is and it is important it’s just part of a much bigger plan (1:08:03) that Dan Gilbert has um the Detroit Riverfront is an underutilized asset that he controls (1:08:12) or has options on just about all of that property so it involves more than the Renson and the Hart (1:08:18) Plaza and the um the Ford Auditorium and all the wonderful work that the Detroit Conservancy has (1:08:27) done that now connects us all the way to Stroh Riverplace so um it’s important to Dan and if (1:08:34) it’s important to him it’s going to get done and it’s going to get done properly but boy I sure (1:08:39) hate to see uh sure hate to see those towers go down yeah and and again I think I think two of (1:08:46) them may well time will tell here it sounds like in short order we’re going to know what’s going on (1:08:51) I’m not quite sure to your right you don’t tell another Italian about putting him in concrete (1:08:58) I just said you know if you if you talk if you talk too much I mean we learned in Goodfellas (1:09:03) what are the what are the two rules never say nothing and don’t write on your friends don’t (1:09:08) write on your friends yeah so um this is fun Matt I I enjoyed this and I hope it wasn’t a waste of(1:09:15) your time I think it was a good use of my time so thanks for being here do I get paid for this (1:09:19) you do not you do not but you get the notoriety of your friends and uh anybody else who watches (1:09:24) this maybe I’ll have someone come out to my house and help me with my wi-fi that could be it could (1:09:29) be a fringe benefit of this always a pleasure to see you all right well thank you Sam Monaco (1:09:34) BLTNT podcast thanks for being here good to be here so long