(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

(0:39) Here we are with our latest episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m very happy to have my guest, (0:45) John Lucci, here with me today. Thanks for being here, John.

(0:48) Well, thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it. (0:51) It’s our pleasure, for sure.

John is the president of a company called FTE Performance, (0:57) which is a management consulting company that specializes in operations consulting, (1:02) mostly for the manufacturing world? Yeah, primarily in the manufacturing (1:06) world. So anything inside the four walls of the assembly plant or any kind of plant (1:12) manufacturing operation, we specialize in that type of activity. I think I mentioned to you earlier, (1:19) we’re contemplating rebranding ourselves to factory advisors because it makes a lot more (1:25) sense and it’s straight up what we do.

What we do. You don’t even have to answer the question. (1:31) Well, you heard it here first on the BLTNT podcast, John Lucci, (1:37) future president of the factory advisors.

If we end up with that rebranding. (1:42) Great. We’ll have to check with the people we know in the copyright and trademark business (1:47) to make sure that’s available for you.

Exactly. (1:51) John and I have known each other for a bit here and getting to know each other(1:55) and have a lot of common friends. I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you over that time.

(2:02) Thank you. It’s interesting, you’ve been bringing a flavor to life that is new for you, (2:14) from what you’ve said. It was funny, it started, I was looking at your Facebook (2:20) and I saw a bunch of pictures of a fire and of a sunset.

I’m like, well, okay. I don’t know you (2:30) that well to judge you on it, to say, is this normal? Is this me or not? I brought it up to (2:35) you and you said, a lot of people don’t ask me about that. A lot of people ask me about that.

(2:39) I happen to be sitting up north and fortunate enough to have a place on a lake and we had this (2:45) beautiful sunrise. It was early, I’m drinking my coffee and I was watching the sunrise and (2:50) I’m playing around with my phone and playing around with the photo options on it. I took (2:55) a few pictures and I took a few more and I started looking at them.

I go, these are cool. (3:00) These are Facebook worthy. I posted them.

I don’t post a lot of stuff on Facebook. It’s (3:04) pretty rare. I posted them on Facebook and I just had this little caption that said, (3:09) good morning, sunshine.

Then I said, hope you have a great day. I thought, well, let’s see (3:13) who answers. I’m thinking about my friends and stuff.

Oddly enough, several people answered (3:20) back and were like, hey, good morning to you, my friend, and stuff like that, which was really (3:24) cool. Then what was really unique about it was later on, my wife started getting these phone (3:31) calls from family members and they’re like, hey, is everything okay with John? He posted these (3:37) photos on Facebook and it’s really not like him to post those. Usually it’s like we’re on a ski (3:44) trip or we’re somewhere with a dog or something like that.

This was a little unusual. People (3:51) kind of got a kick out of it. We talked about that.

You’re a striver. You’re always doing. (3:57) Always doing something.

When we saw you relax, it’s like, whoa. (4:02) Yeah. People were like, what’s going on? (4:04) The people that really knew me, they’re kind of like, what’s going on here? (4:09) It’s been funny.

We’ve been talking and that’s really turned into a great conversation that I’ve (4:15) really liked. You kind of brought up to me, you said, well, I am 60 and so life is changing a (4:22) little bit. Let’s share that.

Let’s share how that’s kind of been evolving for you here, (4:27) because it’s neat that we had that moment and that you’ve had that moment of (4:32) something that happened that all of a sudden made it obvious to others that you’re thinking (4:39) differently. Thinking differently. It’s interesting.

Turning 40, turning 50 didn’t (4:46) really affect me that much. Turning 60, for some reason, I didn’t think it would affect me, (4:50) but now telling people that and actually verbalizing it, it’s hit me a little bit (4:55) different. It’s an interesting time because you start thinking about retirement and what (5:01) you’re going to do with your life.

What’s the next chapter going to be? Are you going to keep (5:05) working or you’re not going to keep working? Are you going to work until you drop? Some people do (5:09) that. For me, I’m going through that period of time where I’m thinking about that and thinking (5:16) about what are the next steps? What’s the next chapter? What do I do with my business at this (5:22) point and my business partners? How do I support them? There’s a lot to that. Then we had our (5:30) first grandchild about 10 months ago and that changes your mind completely.

All of a sudden, (5:35) now you’re a grandparent and you’re in your 60s. All these things are changing at once (5:41) and it does make you contemplate things differently. You’re still maintaining your (5:47) cool though, still riding a bike very often, riding a motorcycle.

I’m still doing all the (5:52) things. I’m probably doing more of that now than I used to. I ride motorcycles.

I spend a lot (6:00) of time in Colorado lately, last few years skiing. I’ve gotten back into that. Things that (6:08) I have always enjoyed, but through that period when you’re raising kids and you’ve got, (6:12) as you know, soccer games to go to and all that kind of stuff and hockey games and you’re carting (6:18) your kids all over the place, you put a lot of those things on hold.

It’s been nice because (6:22) I’ve been starting to get back into that. Then I’ve been getting into bicycling or cycling quite (6:27) a bit more as well and really spending a lot of time on a bike. When I’m on a bike, (6:32) I’m listening to podcasts and listening to books and I’m burning through lots of books now.

I (6:38) probably go through two, three books a month where before I might get through two or three a year. (6:46) All of that is forming and shaping my thinking as I take this next step. (6:53) That’s great.

We started talking about the chapters in the book. Really, we started talking (7:00) about this book that you’ve been reading and how it has given you an optimistic view of what the (7:08) next 16 years could look like. The aging process and where you go with that.

The book is called (7:14) From Strength to Strength. The author is Arthur Brooks. It’s a really great book.

I was turned (7:21) on to it from a friend and colleague of mine that I worked with in our younger days. He recently (7:27) retired from his full-time career and started working with us with our consulting company (7:34) as a coach and advisor and leadership advisor. He and I were talking about this.

(7:43) He recommended I read this book. I picked it up and I read it. What I found fascinating about it (7:48) is that he talks about the science of how your mind works.

Early on when you’re younger, (7:57) you’ve got this fluid intelligence that really is quick, innovative. You’re able to do computational (8:05) tasks and things that as you get older, it gets harder and harder to do. What happens is then you (8:14) switch.

That kind of peaks in your 30s, according to science. It peaks in your 30s and it starts to (8:22) drop off pretty rapidly for everybody. It’s just a fact.

We all try to hold on to that because we (8:29) think we’re slipping. What’s actually happening is we’re building this crystallized intelligence. (8:34) That curve starts to climb and there’s not evidence.

Barring any catastrophic (8:40) thing with your mind that goes bad, there’s really no evidence that shows that ever drops (8:46) off or declines through your life. What we would commonly refer to that as is wisdom. When I think (8:52) about it and I read what he talks about crystallized intelligence, I think that’s wisdom (8:57) that we gained.

As we get older, we start to accumulate all this information. He used the (9:06) analogy of a librarian. When you’re young and you have this fluid intelligence, (9:10) your librarian is super fast, super fast recall.

I run into you in the grocery store. I say, (9:15) hey Matt, how are you doing? It’s very quick and nimble and agile. As we get older, I might run (9:22) into the grocery store and I’m like, oh boy, what was his name again? My librarian has gotten slow.

(9:30) It’s not that he’s losing his mind, but the librarian is now slow. The difference is he’ll (9:35) come back to me with your name, but it might be when I’m in my car driving home and I’m like,(9:39) damn, that was Matt. The difference is that that librarian now has thousands and thousands of (9:46) books to choose from.

He’s gained all this knowledge and stuff. As we get older, we get (9:54) really good at synthesizing large amounts of information and connecting the dots and putting (10:00) things together and coming up with better strategies and stuff. We can’t always say to (10:05) ourselves, this is exactly why I think we should go down this path or why we should do this.

We’re (10:11) trying to solve problems and stuff, but we know it’s the right thing to do. The reason is because (10:15) we’ve gained all this wisdom through the years. Yeah.

It’s kind of like the mileage is what (10:20) really adds the value. The mileage is what adds the value. The mileage and a lot of experience.

(10:25) Right. We always kind of joke about it in our world. We say we want people on our consulting (10:33) team that have 30 years of diverse experience, not one year experience 30 times.

It’s that diverse (10:41) experience that really gives people the wisdom and the ability to kind of see around corners, (10:48) as we might say. Yeah. We’ve been talking about kind of how AI really almost is in what your (10:56) mind is telling you is that AI kind of is filling that fluid.

What’s lacking in fluid now, AI’s (11:03) grabbing that and the wisdom piece is really helping you to leverage it and kind of put it (11:10) all together appropriately. You were telling me a story even about, was it your mother-in-law? (11:16) It was. Yeah.

My mother-in-law, how we used it. She’s 79 years old. About two or three months ago, (11:25) I got kind of, well, actually about two years ago, I got introduced to ChatGPT when it first came out(11:30) and my youngest son introduced me to it.

I started using it a little bit. I started playing around (11:37) with it and sort of seeing what it could do. I basically used it like a little search engine or (11:42) that type of thing.

I never really saw the power. I mean, I saw the power in it, but I never really (11:46) saw it as something, how could I leverage it and how could I leverage it, not only personally, (11:51) but in my business. Then a few months ago at one of our Visage events, we had a speaker come in(12:00) and he came in and started talking about how to do custom GPTs and write these assistants and (12:07) build these custom assistants.

That just like, boom, opened up Pandora’s box for me. I started (12:14) really playing around with that and diving into it and got some of my team members involved in it (12:19) and really started sort of pushing that envelope and seeing what we could do with AI assistants. (12:26) I started to think about it.

At the same time, I was reading this book and I started to think, (12:31) wow, this AI assistants that you can develop now and write these custom GPTs or develop (12:37) chatbots or AI assistants, personal assistants, can really take the place of that fluid intelligence (12:42) because it’s super fast. You can ask it questions and boom, you get them back almost immediately. (12:48) If you’ve used it at all, you know how it is.

It’s like milliseconds. It just starts pouring out. (12:53) I just can’t believe how it’s adapted and grown and started moving faster and being (12:59) even more accurate and especially as you train your own GPTs.

Even without it, I’ve even noticed (13:05) you can use less prompting now than ever before and get enormous answers. You used to have to (13:10) tell it, you’re a Bain level or McKinsey level consultant. Think like this or that or whatever.

(13:16) You barely have to write those types of pieces into the prompt anymore and you’re getting that (13:21) level of quality in the response. The more you use it, the more it learns from you.(13:26) Absolutely.

The more it just gets better and better. I’m thinking about that and I’m saying, (13:33) the strength thing where our fluid intelligence is dropping off. With AI now, it’s like a force (13:40) multiplier.

All of a sudden, now I have this fluid intelligence back because I have this (13:46) little assistant that can help me come up with things really fast. When I’m struggling to get (13:51) my words on paper, I might be having this great idea. That’s where my mother-in-law, (13:57) the example I was telling you with my mother-in-law.

My mother-in-law, 79 years old, (14:01) she’s on that crystallized intelligence curve and she’s running for an office in her township. (14:06) She wants to win this office in her local township and be part of that and keep contributing (14:14) to things she knows. She was at my place and my wife and I and my mother-in-law and father-in-law (14:22) were sitting around, we’re talking about this.

She says, yeah, I’ve got to write this letter for (14:26) my campaign and I’ve got to turn it into the township. They’ve got to distribute it to the (14:30) community and that type of thing. She says, I’m having trouble getting my thoughts on paper.

(14:35) I said, I got a tool, let’s give it a try. I said, have you heard of this AI thing? She says, (14:39) no, I haven’t heard of it. I hear it on the news all the time, AI this, AI that, but I don’t know (14:43) anything about it.

I said, let me get my computer. I popped open my computer and I started typing. (14:48) I said, okay, tell me a little bit about what is important to you and your community.

What is it (14:53) about the township you live in? What is it that you like about it? What are you trying to preserve? (14:57) What do you want to do? She just started telling me things and I typed it in (15:01) to ChatGPT. Now I said, help me write a letter that’s going to go out to the voters that can (15:10) help them understand how I feel about the community and why I want this job. It spit out (15:17) this letter and with maybe two tweaks, we had it down where she was like, this is the best letter (15:24) ever.

She goes, I could have never got my thoughts out on paper this way. She turned that (15:29) in and submitted it and she ended up winning her election. Here she is at 79 years old, (15:36) she wins this election and she’s saying, this is fantastic.

She’s getting notes from people (15:41) and comments from people about how great her letter was and how it resonated with them. (15:46) It’s just that kind of thing that from my perspective, that’s why I call it a game changer. (15:53) My brother works in my company and our company with us as well.

He called it a mini miracle. (16:02) When he first started using it and he was starting to use it to help with mundane tasks and that (16:09) whole getting your thoughts out on paper and stuff, he said, this is like a miracle. (16:13) I always feel like my brain, as I get older, I constantly am thinking in Venn diagrams of (16:18) circles that are overlapping other circles and then figuring out how to articulate that (16:23) into a concept that I can bring to someone maybe a little younger in my organization (16:29) who can then take action upon that.

I think what you’re doing for me here, it’s resonating a lot (16:38) to talk about even me, I’m a few years younger than you, but I’m still on that curve. I’m still (16:45) on the downside of the curve and that’s not leveraging it, but it’s that Venn diagram. (16:49) Without the mileage that I have, I don’t think I would know the topics, (16:55) the overlapping circles to really talk about, to pull those concepts together.

(17:01) Then I think I also would need the mileage and discernment to know, okay, whatever it spits out (17:07) from that, how to manipulate it and tweak it to something usable, to something that really makes (17:15) sense and put it in my own voice. That’s really the key, is because we can’t rely on this AI (17:23) assistant and whatever it spits out to just say, okay, I’m going to use this directly. (17:28) Because if you do, it won’t be authentic.

People will know that it was AI generated. (17:34) You can tell somebody does something that’s AI generated, but if you iterate and you use it as (17:41) a tool to iterate and you use it as a tool when you develop these assistants to actually interact (17:47) with it as an assistant to help you do things, whatever those things happen to be, then it (17:54) becomes much more authentic and you get your own voice in there and you get your own thing. (17:59) What we should do is we’ll have to include the link to Todd Brook.

He’s the gentleman (18:03) who put on that seminar. It was a two and a half day seminar that we went to that basically (18:09) taught a lot about that prompting, but it also taught about some of the legalities of it in terms (18:14) of how many characters you have to use of your own prompting.(18:18) And the ethics.

(18:20) But how much do you have to put in of your own use? How many iterations do you have to make (18:25) before it’s actually really your information? Where it can be considered your info.(18:32) You can’t just say what are the 10 best country clubs in the nation and then publish that as your (18:38) own documentation that you have to give almost full credit essentially to the AI and put enough (18:44) work of your own into it to say, hey, we’re making that an article. But that is of course (18:48) the danger, right? Is that there’s so much AI generated content out there that how much of (18:54) it’s junk.

And so that’s where I think these valuable conversations of face-to-face and (19:00) real experience of somebody who’s been there, done that. They have so much value versus we (19:05) can’t just rely on whatever we’re reading on the internet. (19:08) So we’re actually working with Todd in his company.

So his company is called… (19:13) We’ve commissioned him to do some work for us and it’s been great. I mean, (19:17) his company is called AI Unchained and he’s helping us. So what we did initially is we (19:24) converted our custom GPTs that were out there on ChatGPT or OpenAI in that environment.

And we (19:32) moved them into Todd’s environment, which makes them more secure and allows us to use more. (19:39) I was concerned about my company data and things of that nature that we’re putting in there to (19:43) use for internal work. And then eventually for external work, right? With our clients and stuff.

(19:49) And part of what you’re describing, we’re actually going through and we’ve now written(19:53) an AI policy for our team members and we’re developing a data disclosure statement so that (19:59) when we work with our clients and we use AI as part of that, we want to disclose that.(20:05) Which is a tricky thing because it’s sort of like saying to your client, (20:09) you wouldn’t have a data disclosure thing that says we’re going to use the internet. (20:14) But if you go back 25 years and you were using the internet, (20:18) people would have been very concerned about that.

And so now they’re concerned about (20:22) AI and yet it’s the same, conceptually, it’s the same thing. (20:27) Pulling from a lot of the same data. (20:28) It’s pulling from the same data and it’s doing a lot of the same things.

And it exposes you (20:33) from a risk perspective, very similar to the way you’re exposed on the internet, (20:38) if you’re searching the internet. (20:40) Sure. It’s kind of the internet on steroids, right? (20:43) It’s the internet on steroids, without a doubt.

(20:45) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, (20:48) business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. (20:51) Empowered by Juniper Networks, automate your network with Juniper Networks (20:55) and the Mist AI platform, the world’s first AI driven wired and wireless network. (21:00) Let’s kind of go back to the strength to strength piece a little bit as well here again.

(21:05) The fact that you’re kind of being purposeful and thoughtful of, (21:10) hey, what’s the next 60 years look like for John and your company and your family (21:17) and everything like that. And so what are the things that are challenging you? (21:23) What are the things that you’re thinking about in terms of, (21:26) I know we talked in preparation here of like your own relevance, right?(21:30) And so it sounds like, I mean, I don’t know what the stats are, (21:34) but I certainly know not every 79 year old is using AI. (21:39) Right.

(21:39) I also don’t know how many 60 year olds are really using it as heavily- (21:44) As I might be using it. (21:45) As you might be using it, right? (21:46) Yeah. I mean, I talk to a lot of my friends and stuff and people in my peer group, (21:50) and there are some exceptions that are doing what I’m doing and they’ve sort of gravitated to it.

(21:56) Others are sort of thinking of it as more of a novelty at this point in time. (22:01) And of course I got all excited about it and I’m kind of a tech geek anyways. (22:06) I actually started my career in robotics and stuff back when industry 4.0 wasn’t a thing, (22:12) but robotics and controls and all that.

(22:15) So automation to me has always been, I’ve always been fascinated with that. (22:19) And I started my career that way. (22:20) And I kind of look at the whole AI thing as just automation.

(22:23) It’s a way of automating tasks that we could never automate in the past, right? (22:29) So it’s very helpful from that perspective. (22:33) But I’m not sure that, I think that’s a really great question is, (22:37) I’m not sure how many people in sort of my age group are using it (22:42) and really leveraging it the way they could. (22:45) I know within our company, we are introducing it pretty broadly to folks and saying, (22:52) look, here’s some of the things that you could do.

(22:55) And the biggest one is the one we’ve hit on already was just like, (22:58) how do I get my thoughts out of my head and on paper? (23:00) And we’ve got, in our company, we really employ and our advisors, (23:06) our factory advisors are the ones that are, (23:09) they have 30 years of experience in most cases, 30 or more years of experience. (23:14) And they’re kind of on their second curve. (23:16) And what they want to do, they were in very prominent careers.

(23:20) Many of them were plant managers of large automotive plants. (23:24) They were executive VPs of operations. (23:28) They had all this great, wonderful experience.

(23:32) And now they want to give back and they want to, (23:34) but they want to do it in a way that keeps them relevant (23:38) and keeps them kind of in the game. (23:40) But at the same time, they don’t really have a desire to go sit in, (23:44) you know, eight hours of meetings a day in their previous career jobs and stuff. (23:49) And they’ve done that.

(23:50) They’ve been there. (23:51) They’ve reached, you know, great, done great things, had great accomplishments. (23:56) And now they, in a sense, they want to give back a little bit and have some service.

(24:01) And so they, as I think about my own career and, you know, (24:05) going from a corporate world to consulting, (24:10) to now my own consulting firm with some partners. (24:13) And I think about how that’s evolved. (24:16) And now where do I go from here? (24:17) Because I’ve got these really capable partners that are taking over (24:22) and they’re now running the company and they’re doing that.

(24:25) And I’m sort of in this no man’s land where I’m sort of feeling, (24:29) you know, at times what’s my relevance in all of this, right? (24:34) And how can I help? (24:35) And so you kind of go from being a player on the field (24:39) to now being a coach on the sidelines, right? (24:42) And you’ve got to like figure out how to get that value (24:46) from being that coach and not being on the field as much. (24:50) Yeah, I almost interrupted you. (24:51) What I was going to say was, you know, to me, (24:53) the keeping up on modern tools helps you maintain your relevance, right?(24:58) I always think of how do you make sure that what you’re, (25:02) how do you make sure that you’re relevant enough, right? (25:03) I mean, I would think it’s a little weird if you were,(25:06) you know, all over Snapchat, right? (25:08) I would think, okay, you’re trying a little too hard, (25:10) but the fact that you’re all over chat GPT makes me go, (25:14) okay, John is maintaining his relevance.

(25:16) So if I’m a younger person working with you, (25:18) I want to listen because I’m getting the crystallized piece, (25:21) but I’m also getting the, you’re taking a modern approach to it, right?(25:25) And so I think we were chatting. (25:27) I hope that’s how they feel. (25:28) Yeah, right.

(25:28) But I noticed your ear hair isn’t that long either. (25:31) So like what we talked about is like what you have to do (25:33) in terms of maintaining your relevance is you have to show that,(25:36) you know, you want to be the wiser elder, (25:39) not the long in the tooth, you know, and more ear hair than head hair. (25:45) That I’m distracting them from that.

(25:46) Exactly, right? (25:47) And so I think that what you’re doing is enormously beneficial.(25:54) And I mean, you stay fit, you, you know, you stay active and you’re doing this. (25:59) I mean, that, I think it doesn’t sound like you’re missing on, (26:04) on too much of the, what needs to be done to maintain relevance.

(26:07) Yeah. Yeah. (26:08) Well, I hope so.

(26:09) I mean, some of the things it’s that, you know, (26:14) part of his book, you hit on a little bit earlier, the, the, the striver thing, right? (26:19) He, in, in, in the book, Strength to Strength, (26:21) he talks about the striver’s curse, right? (26:24) And that, that many of us, we’ve just been strivers our whole life. (26:29) You know, we’re always working toward that next goal, that next goal, that next goal. (26:32) And I’ve been that way my whole life.

(26:34) You know, I’ve carried around like a little three by five card in my wallet forever. (26:37) Right. (26:37) That’s like, here’s my goals for the next five years.

(26:40) Here’s my goal for the next 10 years. (26:41) Right. (26:42) And they’re big lofty ones.

(26:43) And some of them I was able to achieve. (26:46) Some of them I wasn’t. (26:48) And that’s okay.

(26:49) But it’s really this, you get in this groove of like striving all the time, striving all the time.(26:54) And he calls it the striver’s curse because it’s really hard to then get off of that goal.(27:00) And, and maybe your next goals need to be more in service of others and in service of(27:06) something else.

(27:07) Right. (27:07) And so thinking about that and thinking about how I can do that and maintain some relevance that way, (27:15) I think is kind of where I am in a headspace. (27:19) Yeah.

(27:19) Well, we talked about that with that same person that you had mentioned about Paul.(27:24) I think it was you that mentioned Paul and the talk they did about the exit planning. (27:29) Might’ve been earlier that we were talking about this.

(27:31) Yeah. (27:32) At the last seminar that we were at. (27:33) Yeah, the last one with the private equity.

(27:34) Yeah, it was a private equity discussion. (27:36) And what we, what was, was interesting was, you know, what is everybody doing now, (27:42) now that they’re, now that they’re. (27:43) Oh, right.

(27:43) Right. (27:43) There’s a fella that we know, a common friend named Rich Booms who,(27:48) you didn’t know Rich during his exit planning stages. (27:51) No, I didn’t.

(27:52) But I did. (27:52) And he’s probably was the most intentional guy that I’ve ever seen go through kind of, (27:59) what did he want life to be like? (28:00) Because he had the striver’s curse.(28:02) Right.

(28:02) And he knew that if he didn’t fill the time up with the next level of appropriate things to do,(28:09) then he was going to, he was going to lose his mind. (28:11) Right. (28:11) Right.

(28:12) And so I’ve never seen anybody go, go at it so intentionally like he did. (28:17) And you brought up to me when we were, when we were chatting was, you know, (28:20) now what Rich is doing is he’s helping bring his crystallized knowledge to. (28:25) Yeah.

(28:25) To young people. (28:26) To young people. (28:26) Yeah.

(28:27) And he’s really helping a lot. (28:28) I mean, he’s in service of, of younger people now.(28:31) Yeah.

(28:31) It was amazing what he’s doing. (28:34) Yeah. (28:34) Yeah.

(28:34) And we talked about, you know, how his relevance is, is maintained though, (28:38) is, is almost like you have to always earn trust, right? (28:41) Yeah. (28:41) Trust is something that’s earned. (28:42) And so Rich has this uncanny ability to give intense focus, (28:49) patience, and listening to whomever he’s in front of, you know, (28:53) he definitely is one of those people you walk in front of and there’s (28:55) no one else in the room as far as you would know.

(28:57) Right. (28:58) You know, when you’re speaking with them for you, (29:00) what do you think that your superpower, or just even, (29:03) even if it’s not a superpower now, one that you want to hone in on as you’re, (29:07) you know, as you’re really grabbing onto this crystallized intelligence,(29:12) obviously backed with AI. (29:13) Yeah.

(29:14) You are John Lucci powered by. (29:15) Powered by AI. (29:17) Right.

(29:18) Yeah. (29:20) That’s a great question. (29:22) You know, I think I’ve been told that I’m pretty good at coming up with like (29:28) creative solutions to problems and stuff.

(29:31) And that’s great. (29:33) You, you know, you can be a good problem solver, right. (29:35) And that’s really important through life.

(29:37) And I, you know, I tell my kids this, I tell people that I work with this, (29:41) you know, be a good problem solver, right. (29:43) Come with, you know, it’s, it’s, you can be a great pointer out of problems, (29:48) you know, but if you don’t come with some solutions and some ideas, (29:52) even if your ideas are no good at least the fact that you’re coming with some (29:55) ideas is really important, right. (29:57) And then people can build on those ideas.

(30:00) So I’ve always felt like I’ve been pretty good at problem solving and kind of looking (30:03) at things and saying, okay, you know, get creative around them. (30:06) And how can we, how can we get beyond this or solve this problem or do that type of thing? (30:12) Maybe that’ll be the next thing is like, how can I help coach people on, and you know, (30:17) my team at, at FTE and others on how do you do that? (30:23) How do you solve problems? (30:25) And how do you maybe bring that wisdom to the problem solving world and stuff? (30:29) But I feel like we’re doing some good things too, in that we’re giving people (30:33) that want like a second career and that want a second act, if you will, (30:38) not really a career where they want to climb a ladder, but a career where they want to, (30:42) you know, provide some service back. (30:44) Yeah, truly contributing.

(30:45) Yeah, truly contributing. (30:47) And we’re doing it in an area in manufacturing that has a dire need for it. (30:52) I know we talked about this a little before, but the manufacturing environment, (30:59) you know, for the last 25, 30 years, they just, nobody tells their kids, (31:04) hey, you should go into manufacturing, right? (31:06) You’re not like college recruiters or high school guidance counselors aren’t saying, (31:11) hey, Matt, you should go into manufacturing, right? (31:15) That’s just not cool.

(31:16) Nobody says that. (31:17) They say, oh, you should be a knowledge worker and you should go into computers. (31:21) Well, you should go into IT, which is what you did, right? (31:23) I know that everybody wants to be a YouTuber.

(31:25) Everybody now wants to be a YouTuber. (31:27) I guess that’s the new thing. (31:30) So there’s this big gap, right? (31:32) There’s this knowledge gap.

(31:33) And if you pay any attention to what’s going on in the world today, (31:37) even if you wanted to go down the political route and you look at, (31:41) you know, nearshoring and how do we bring manufacturing back into this country? (31:46) It’s a big deal and it’s a big problem that we have. (31:49) And that skills gap is a big problem as well. (31:52) So I feel like if I can give back to that in some way, (31:55) I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately as well and thinking about(31:59) how could I contribute in a way that maybe I can bring some cool factor back to manufacturing, (32:09) back to skilled trades or that type of thing, because there is a dire need for it.

(32:15) And, you know, I had the good fortune of, in my previous life, (32:21) when I was with one of the bigger consulting firms and I traveled all over the world, (32:25) just about every continent.(32:27) And I always traveled because we were doing manufacturing, (32:31) you know, helping manufacturing companies and stuff get better from a productivity, (32:36) quality, that type of thing, cost perspective. (32:39) And it was always in these developing nations.

(32:42) And I would go there and I’d be like, this is crazy. (32:45) Here’s the, you know, I’m sitting here in the Czech Republic (32:48) and all they want to do is build a manufacturing base (32:52) because they know that they’re going to build this manufacturing base. (32:56) That’s going to help build the middle class.

(32:58) That’s going to help build good jobs. (33:00) And it’s going to have good paying jobs.(33:02) And it’s going to bring everybody up.

(33:04) And at the same time, back home, I’m saying all we’re doing is trying to get rid of our(33:09) manufacturing. (33:10) You know, we’re trying to push it out of here and we’re trying to say, oh, those are, (33:14) those are, you know, jobs. (33:16) Nobody should, you know, done cheaper.

(33:18) Also, we can get them done cheaper elsewhere. (33:19) Yeah. (33:20) And so I think we’re starting to realize that that wasn’t a good plan.

(33:26) And so, yeah, it’s interesting. (33:27) I mean, for the good that came out of the globalization (33:30) in manufacturing of, you know, we learned Kaizen. (33:32) We learned, right.

(33:33) You know, different techniques and manufacturing, whatever, you know, (33:38) we learned a lot from that. (33:41) But what we also then learned, you know, especially during COVID was we learned that, (33:46) oh, if that factory is too far away, we’ve given up supply chain, we’ve increased supply (33:52) chain concerns. (33:53) We’ve increased security concerns now.

(33:56) Right. (33:56) You know, that’s, that’s obviously the thing that’s front and center for all of us right (34:00) now is that, okay, well, we’ve got all of these materials that even if the material(34:05) starts here, it goes overseas. (34:07) Yeah.

(34:08) And we don’t even have control over it. (34:10) If we need that for defense or for other.(34:12) That’s right.

(34:13) You know, critical items. (34:14) I was just at an event the other night where I learned that we’ve. (34:18) We’ve imported.

(34:19) Imported more than we’ve exported. (34:20) I’m sorry. (34:21) We used to be a net exporter.

(34:22) Correct. (34:23) Yeah. (34:23) Yep.

(34:23) And so that means our reliance on food sources outside of our country is higher than ever.(34:30) So did you, did you think that you were starting to pick up? (34:33) I mean, I guess hindsight 2020, did, did you feel like you were picking up on those (34:37) trends while you were still in the heat of, of, you know, helping these other developing (34:44) nations? (34:44) Oh, for sure. (34:45) Get that you were going.

(34:46) Yeah. (34:46) Is this right? (34:47) For sure. (34:47) I was asking that question.

(34:48) Yeah. (34:49) A hundred percent was always asking that question was, was happy to help.(34:53) Was, you know, I was glad that I was able to help and we had teams that could help, but(34:58) it didn’t take very long to start to realize that.

(35:01) You start to say to yourself, you know, there is a reason why every developing nation wants(35:06) to start with manufacturing, right? (35:08) They want to build things. (35:10) They want to make things. (35:11) They want to be a producer of something.

(35:13) And then be self-sustaining. (35:14) And then they eventually want to be self-sustaining.(35:16) Exactly.

(35:17) And so that’s something that you can’t help but notice when you start traveling and you(35:23) start going to these other countries and you see what they’re doing and how they want to(35:27) compete. (35:28) Um, and I, and I’m telling you, it’s not just the poor nations or it’s not just the developing (35:33) ones either. (35:34) I spent time in, um, Saudi Arabia, um, and with the Saudis and they wanted to build a (35:40) manufacturing industrial base and they’re doing that now.

(35:43) They’re building this big industrial base. (35:45) I mean, they’re one of the richest countries on the planet, right? (35:48) They sit on all this oil and, um, and yet they wanted to build a manufacturing base. (35:53) And the main reason they wanted to do that was because they wanted to provide good paying (35:57) jobs for their citizens, right? (36:00) And now they wanted to do it in a more high tech way and they wanted to do it with things (36:06) that were, um, that where they could be competitive because they had all this cheap energy.

(36:11) And so they could do things like smelting aluminum, right? (36:14) As an example, which is really energy intensive. (36:18) Um, but they could do it there because, um, because they had all this energy, right? (36:22) Sure. (36:23) So it was interesting, but it’s, everybody wants to build an industrial base and we weren’t (36:28) doing that.

(36:29) And now we are, now we’re finally starting to wake up to that and we’re sort of reshoring.(36:33) Mexico right now is just booming more than it ever has because that’s either part, then(36:39) people are coming back. (36:40) They’re nearshoring, right? (36:41) Not necessarily building in the US, but they’re building as close as in North America, as close (36:48) as they can.

(36:48) Yeah. (36:49) Um, and when you get into the, you know, I mean, there’s a whole bunch that goes into (36:52) that right around labor costs and things of that nature. (36:55) But at the end of the day, um, those are some of the things that I think about.

(37:00) And I, I think about, um, how that relates to, you know, as I was saying earlier, this (37:04) gap in skills and skilled labor, you know, you and I are, are, are both kind of DIY-ers (37:10) when it comes to home projects and stuff. (37:13) And some of that is driven through from, you know, it’s just kind of fun to work on some (37:18) home projects at times. (37:19) A lot of that’s driven by, it’s just so hard to get somebody to come over and do electrical (37:23) work on your condo or something, you know, or on your house or, you know, you want to, (37:28) you want to do some remodeling and it’s just hard to find skilled labor.

(37:33) We used the word just a few minutes ago of, you know, of self-sustaining and it’s kind(37:38) of interesting. (37:39) Um, I, and, and you, you also brought up the, the fact of it, it fell out of vogue right (37:45) to, you know, to, to be in manufacturing. (37:47) Yeah.

(37:47) But it also, or the trades, yeah, you know, and it’s like, it also fell out of vogue to (37:52) be in farming. (37:53) And sure. (37:54) Now you see people, now you see people who have means who are saying, you know what, (37:59) I want to be a homestead.

(37:59) Oh, they’re doing hobby farms. (38:01) Yeah, absolutely. (38:02) Because it’s like, yeah, no, it’s a hobby, but it’s also, it’s a hobby asterisk, which (38:06) says if the shit hits the fan, I know I’ve sustained, I’ve got self-sustainability here (38:11) where my chickens are producing eggs.

(38:13) And you know, I’m, I’ve got something to live off of. (38:15) The power grid goes down for, right. (38:17) For a month while, uh, you know, while we’re in some sort of turmoil.

(38:21) Fortunately, I have friends that do that. (38:22) So I know where I’m going to get my eggs.(38:23) We’ll see how close the friends they are.

(38:27) If something were to go, if something were to go bad. (38:29) Yeah. (38:30) That’s how we’ll start to judge our friendships.

(38:31) Yeah. (38:32) Yeah. (38:33) But it is interesting because that skills gap, I mean, whether it’s, whether it’s an (38:36) agriculture farming or whether it’s in the trades and stuff, I mean, it’s a big, it’s (38:41) a big problem.

(38:42) And, um, you know, that guy, Mike Rowe, the dirty jobs guy. (38:45) Sure. (38:45) He’s a big advocate for that.

(38:47) Right. (38:47) And I’ve started reading some of the things he’s got a foundation. (38:49) I think, I can’t remember.

(38:50) It’s like Mike works or something. (38:52) It helps people get into the trades. (38:53) Right.

(38:53) Yeah. (38:54) And, and he kind of highlighted that, started seeing that happening as well and said, you (38:59) know, we got to make it, we got to make it appealing again. (39:02) And I was doing a little bit of research around that, um, recently.

(39:06) And I was looking at like, you know, what a welders make and what a electricians and,(39:11) and, you know, electricians, plumbers, um, HVAC people, welders. (39:17) I mean, these people are making 80, $90,000 a year. (39:21) Sometimes even more.

(39:21) And I think, you know, I was going to say, I think that’s like a, like an average, a (39:25) baseline. (39:25) Yeah. (39:26) Because I know in some of the areas here in Michigan, for sure.

(39:29) Um, it’s a lot more expensive than that. (39:32) Well into six figures. (39:32) Yeah.

(39:32) Well into six figures. (39:34) And so, you know, maybe that becomes the catalyst where all of a sudden people are (39:39) saying to their, to their young kids, they’re saying, Hey, look, you can go work in a (39:43) cubicle somewhere, or you could go being an electrician and, and be out working with your (39:49) hands, working on the job, you know, doing that type of thing. (39:52) Yeah.

(39:52) I mean, in some of those jobs, I mean, most, most of the ones that you just mentioned,(39:56) they’re not going to be automated away. (39:58) Well, very difficult. (39:59) Even if they are eventually automated away.

(40:02) Right. (40:02) I mean, I know we’ve, we’ve seen, you know, 3d printed houses that, uh, you know, the (40:06) electrical has already included it in and whatever, but, but that’s, that’s, that’s a(40:10) ways off. (40:11) Right.

(40:11) I mean, you could actually say to this current, you know, upcoming working generation, like(40:16) you can be pretty assured that you’ll have a career as an electrician from, you know, (40:20) if you’re 20 years old today, uh, 60 or 70, you could, you could probably almost guarantee (40:26) that electrician jobs will be, will be there. (40:29) Yeah. (40:29) Not the same for, if you’re talking about some of the, some of the, uh, some of the jobs (40:34) in manufacturing, right.

(40:36) Especially that are not skilled. (40:38) Right. (40:38) Um, or, or, um, uh, things like truck driving.

(40:41) Right. (40:41) That would be one that I would be concerned for. (40:44) Yeah.

(40:44) Someone with autonomous vehicles. (40:46) Yeah. (40:46) Right.

(40:46) At some point there’ll be, yeah. (40:48) Well, even coding, right. (40:50) So, so software and coding, I mean, coding is another one that with AI, right.

(40:55) You know, it’s a big deal for those folks right now. (40:59) You sort of look at AI coder.(41:01) Yeah.

(41:01) You need to be an AI coder. (41:02) You know, you need to know how to do that. (41:03) Right.

(41:04) Um, but it’s interesting because, you know, I think about those careers as well and, you(41:09) know, tying that back to the AI and like you said, it’s pretty hard to, you know, if it’s (41:14) a hands-on career where you actually physically have to be there and do something, it’s pretty(41:18) hard to automate that away. (41:20) Um, but you know, if you’re going into accounting, if you’re going into legal, if you’re going (41:25) into coding, software coding, those are all places I’d be really concerned about. (41:29) You bet.

(41:30) If I was a, I mean, I hate to say it, but if I was a kid in college right now and I (41:34) was halfway through an accounting degree, I’d be a little, I’d be a little concerned. (41:39) Sure. (41:39) You know, given what’s going on with AI.

(41:41) Sure. (41:42) So, and I know all the big firms are investing millions in, you know, in developing their (41:47) own AI and stuff. (41:48) Right.

(41:48) And where are they going to take all that? (41:50) I’m not sure, but even like the legal field, I mean, I wrote a custom GPT to be my legal (41:57) assistant, right. (41:58) And I’ve run some, some contracts through there that, um, that people have sent to me. (42:05) Well, I mentioned to you that I’m developing my AI policy and my data processing.

(42:09) So Todd Brooke from AI Unchained, he gave me a copy of his data processing and I, and(42:15) I stuck it right back into the AI. (42:17) And I said, Hey, here’s what my company does.(42:19) Help me rewrite this thing.

(42:21) And it rewrote it. (42:22) Now I’ve since sent that to our legal folks and I’ve said, can you guys give this a once (42:27) over? (42:28) Um, and you know, it’s been a week now and they can’t, they haven’t gotten to it yet. (42:34) Right.

(42:34) And I’m thinking to myself, boy, I, you know, I, I can put this into my GPT and it’s done(42:40) in 30 milliseconds. (42:41) And we know that someone out there is putting, is, is training the AI some way along the (42:46) way about all the law so that it’ll be able to interpret it. (42:49) Right.

(42:50) Right. (42:50) Think about tax and tax laws and all those things. (42:53) Right.

(42:54) It’s the kind of, yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s an interesting (42:57) time. (42:58) That’s for sure.(42:59) That’s wild.

(43:00) So, um, one thing we didn’t really talk about yet is, um, family life. (43:04) So, um, we know that you live in Southeast Michigan, you have a vacation home in Northern (43:09) Michigan.(43:10) Yeah.

(43:10) Talk about your family. (43:11) Talk about how many kids. (43:12) I know you have one, one, one grandchild, one grandchild.

(43:14) Yep. (43:15) Yep. (43:15) So three kids, um, uh, two boys and a girl.

(43:18) Who’s your favorite? (43:19) Who’s my favorite? (43:20) Don’t answer that. (43:22) Yeah, no, they’re all my favorite. (43:24) They all have, you know, really unique, um, qualities and stuff.

(43:27) And, and, and we enjoy spending time with all of them, you know? (43:31) So, um, my oldest son, we’ll start with him. (43:34) He lives in the Chicago, uh, area and, and he and his wife just had their first baby. (43:40) And so now my grandson is 10 months old and he’s developing that personality and stuff.

(43:44) And it’s great. (43:45) You know, we wish they lived closer, but, um, but you know, Chicago’s not that far away, (43:49) right? (43:49) It’s, you know, five hours we can be there or they’re here. (43:53) Having the place in, in Northern Michigan really is a good draw because it’s a place that, (43:58) and when we bought the place, that’s what we thought about.

(44:00) We thought, you know, we need a place that our kids are going to want to come to. (44:04) Um, they’re not necessarily going to want to spend time at our home here and, and, you (44:08) know, spend their vacations here, but they do like to spend their vacations up there. (44:12) So we get a lot of time during the summer.

(44:14) We get to see them a lot and that’s really great. (44:16) That’s great. (44:16) Um, and then my daughter and her husband, they live in Denver.

(44:20) And so that’s, you know, that’s a long ways away, but they come home quite a bit as well.(44:26) And, you know, for weekend long weekends and they do their vacation up North at our place (44:30) as well. (44:31) Um, and then we spend time out there in the winter and I mentioned, I like to ski and (44:35) stuff.

(44:35) So yeah, it’s, it’s nice. (44:37) We get to go out there. (44:38) We get to see them quite a bit.

(44:39) I ski with them. (44:41) Um, you know, where do you guys normally ski? (44:43) What’s the favorite? (44:45) Um, you know, they, they use the, what’s called the icon pass. (44:49) The kids like, um, they like Copper Mountain, Arapahoe Basin.

(44:54) Um, those are kind of their favorite, um, up in the area. (44:57) So we stay up in Summit County. (44:59) Um, I like Vale and Beaver Creek are probably my two favorites.

(45:04) Um, um, and then I like Keystone and I like Copper and I like A-Basin. (45:10) So A-Basin I’m not super familiar with because every time I’ve been there in the last two (45:15) years, it’s been like a whiteout snowstorm. (45:17) So I really, yeah, I really don’t know where the hell I’m skiing.

(45:21) You know, it makes me a little nervous. (45:23) So I stick to the runs. (45:24) I know.

(45:25) And, and, and I don’t really adventure around and my daughter keeps telling me, you got(45:28) to come on a, on a bluebird day. (45:30) You got to, you’ll love it there, but you know, it’s just, it’s always a whiteout when (45:34) I go there. (45:34) So, um, it speaks to the snow conditions, the snow conditions are always great, but it’s (45:38) always, it’s always coming down hard.

(45:40) But, and then my youngest son lives a mile from us and bought a house and just recently(45:45) got engaged and, um, yeah. (45:48) And so, so that’s exciting as well. (45:50) So we’ll have another wedding coming up and then they’ll all be married off and stuff.

(45:54) And, um, fantastic. (45:55) And that’s great. (45:56) My wife and I have been married now for 37 years.

(46:00) So that’s been great. (46:01) Um, she has a lot of patience. (46:04) I don’t, it’s good that she has a lot of patience.

(46:06) She puts up with me. (46:08) Um, and our kids, I mean, I feel like we were, I was talking about this with a buddy of mine (46:13) that, um, old college roommate that I had dinner with my wife and I had dinner with (46:17) him and his wife last night. (46:18) We’ve known him for almost 40 years now.

(46:20) And, uh, since we were all dating, um, and we talked about our kids and stuff and, you(46:26) know, how do you clarify that you were all dating? (46:28) No individual, other people.(46:29) Yeah. (46:30) Yeah.

(46:31) Sherry and I were dating and Len and Marisa were dating. (46:34) Okay. (46:34) Okay.

(46:34) So, um, just to clarify, good job. (46:37) Um, so, uh, we were talking about kids and how, how, you know, how do you know if you (46:42) did well with your kids and what advice do you give them about their kids now and all (46:47) of that. (46:48) And we kind of look at it and I said, I said, you know, I look at it and they’re all out (46:53) there.

(46:53) They’re doing their thing. (46:54) They’re contributing to society. (46:56) They, they’re, they’re active and they’re doing good things.

(47:00) And I said, so I, I think I won, you know, I think at that point we did a great job. (47:04) I just contribute a lot of that to my wife. (47:06) Um, I think she gives them a lot of their, uh, their empathy and their, their softer (47:12) side.

(47:12) Although, as I mentioned earlier, I’m clearly, I’m getting softer and sentimental, turning(47:16) more sentimental. (47:17) Um, and I probably give them more of the business acumen and more of that drive and that (47:22) energy. (47:23) I probably have, I probably have bestowed them with the striver’s curse.

(47:28) So, but now you have tools to help them. (47:30) But now I have tools eventually when they’re, when it’s reached the level of the curve. (47:33) Yeah, exactly.

(47:34) The curve. (47:34) Yeah, exactly. (47:35) So great.

(47:36) Yeah. (47:37) So that’s been great. (47:38) What else, what else would you want to talk about? (47:40) What else would you want people to know about you or, or what questions would you have for (47:42) me? (47:43) What would you like to go with us? (47:45) I think at the end of the day, it’s a, it’s a, uh, it’s thinking about that next chapter.

(47:51) It’s thinking about for me, like, like we said, I’m, I’m a bit older. (47:54) I’m a, I’m a little further ahead on the, on the 13 years, the curve is that what it (47:59) is? (47:59) 13 years on you.(48:00) Yeah.

(48:01) So, um, so it’s, it’s transitioning time, right? (48:06) It’s a, it’s a time to transition. (48:07) It’s, I can’t see myself as a retiree that, um, that, you know, goes off and plays golf (48:15) all the time or rides my motorcycle all the time, or, cause I like like too many different (48:19) things and I’m always kind of jumping around doing different things. (48:22) And I like that, but a pure life of leisure doesn’t really appeal to me.

(48:27) It just, um. (48:28) Contributing is a number, a word that you’ve brought up a number of times and I think that, (48:31) that seems to be really meaningful you to, to make sure that you are contributing. (48:35) Yeah.

(48:36) In, in some way, shape or form. (48:38) Right. (48:38) And that’s sort of evolving right now.

(48:40) And that type of thinking is evolving. (48:42) And so, um, so we’ll see where it goes. (48:45) You know, I don’t, I don’t have a clear picture.

(48:48) Um, I don’t, I don’t have a clear plan of what the next five, 10, 15 years are going (48:54) to look like. (48:55) Um, but, but it’s evolving and it’s kind of coalescing around these ideas of this.(49:01) Like I said, my buddy Brian turned me on to this book, strength of strength and this (49:06) crystallized intelligence.

(49:07) And how do you use that? (49:08) And, you know, impart that wisdom on people and help them, um, sort of see around corners (49:15) and not make the same mistakes. (49:16) Right.(49:16) Yeah.

(49:17) Yeah. (49:18) Well, I think it’s, um, I think that it’s great that you’ve started it this early on,(49:22) you know, thinking like this and, and, uh, putting a focus to it. (49:26) Right.

(49:26) So that you’re not, you don’t get to, you know, 70 years old and you’re, and you say,(49:30) you know, I think I need to retire now. (49:32) And then there’s nothing, nothing, nothing left. (49:34) Right.

(49:34) And there’s no, and there’s no been no preparation for what’s next. (49:38) And so, um, you know, I commend you for how you’re doing it. (49:41) You’re an inspiration to me on how you’re doing it.

(49:43) So it makes me want to think about it as a show. (49:45) So I’ll, I’ll try to get it started even earlier based on what I learned from you. (49:49) But, um, but thanks for doing this.

(49:50) Thanks for being here. (49:51) Yeah. (49:52) You’re an interesting guy.

(49:53) I think you’re a great person and, uh, I’m glad you’ve been a part of this. (49:56) Oh, thanks, man. (49:57) I, I appreciate it as well.

(49:58) Thanks for having me. (50:00) And, um, you know, we’ll see where the next chapters take us both. (50:03) Great.

(50:04) Great. (50:04) All right. (50:04) Thanks.

(50:05) Thank you.