(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen. 

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in. 

Welcome to this episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt (0:44) Loria, and I’m here with Dr. Joel Kahn, inter-preventional cardiologist, author, speaker, (0:51) world-known vegan, and also recent guest of the Joe Rogan podcast show. How are you doing, Dr. Kahn? (0:59) I’m great, thank you. 

(1:02) Always nice to see you. (1:04) It’s good to be here and be seen. There’s apparently a fire alarm going off in my (1:10) building as a test, so if you hear any noise in the background, it’s not my bionic heart (1:15) alerting me to- I was going to say, as long as it’s not a heart alert, I think we’re doing okay. 

(1:19) Anytime I have a session with you, I get a bit of a pitter-patter, but I don’t think that’s what’s-(1:23) I appreciate that. (1:24) No problem. (1:27) So Dr. Kahn and I have known each other for quite some time. 

I actually got introduced through (1:32) another physician friend of ours, common friend of ours, when my wife had a little bit of a scare, (1:39) which seemed pretty sudden and kind of a big surprise because she’s thin, she’s a runner, (1:46) in good shape, and as Dr. Kahn can probably tell you, that doesn’t always tell us if someone has (1:53) any sort of heart disease or not. (1:55) Well, the classic example, just to pick up on that, is- it’s a slide I use all the time. (2:01) Some people are old enough to remember a book in the 1970s with a red cover called The Book (2:06) of Running, a big, strong leg, and Jim Fix, one of the really early advocates of long distance (2:13) running, and he dropped dead at age 53 of heart disease, very sadly, and the other part of the (2:20) slide I use is Winston Churchill at age 91 with a big stogie and, you know, 280 pounds, and how (2:27) did he make it that far without a heart attack and without dementia? And you just can’t look on (2:33) the outside and tell what’s on the inside, true. 

So, yeah, so ever since knowing Dr. Kahn, (2:39) our family’s been extensively tested repeatedly to make sure that we know what’s going on on the (2:46) inside, so we definitely have a great, long relationship with them and appreciate all of (2:51) your test not guess theories. Thank you, and that is a hashtag, a meme, (3:00) test not guess, and something that we can delve into. So, as you know, you know, we’re going to (3:08) cover a whole lot about each other here, business life, technology, and transformations, and (3:13) you’re full of all of those, full of a few other things, but full of those as well. 

(3:21) The business side is really what first got us chatting was, you know, you essentially left the,(3:30) whatever we want to call this, the mainstay, the standard medical practice, and have been(3:36) off on your own as a concierge doctor for quite some time now. Can you talk about that a bit, (3:41) please? Yeah, well, there’s two comments. You know, one is I’ve been through five,(3:46) five maybe different practice models. 

Three of them at least were group practice where, you know, (3:54) there’s eight to 15 doctors, usually a practice administrator, and I just like seeing patients, (4:01) so I didn’t get very involved in practice administration, but, you know, there were (4:05) meetings and board, you know, papers and the rest. I did have a three-year stint as an employee of (4:12) Detroit Medical Center, you know, probably 20,000 physician employees. My boss is the current mayor (4:20) of the city of Detroit, well-known guy, and that was an interesting experience. 

Just ignore the (4:27) background, as I said, and then finally, you know, it’s very different to own your own practice, (4:33) and I don’t know how long the noise will go on, but everybody just take with me here. (4:37) So, for about nine… Unless it says this is not a test, then we’ll be fine. Yeah, actually, (4:50) I think it’s fine, and there’s no fire trucks outside, so I don’t know. 

We’ll just keep going, (4:56) but, you know, owning your own practice, renting your own printing machine, getting your own (5:00) business insurance, having, you know, a payroll system for your own employees, all that is (5:07) something that increasingly in medicine is rare. The vast majority of physicians that work for (5:12) hospital systems are big entities, and we’ve lost that small entrepreneurial (5:18) approach, which is also kind of controlling your destiny approach. I mean, my wife can fire me. 

(5:23) That’s my biggest risk, but so far, she’s been a good administrator to me, and that’s about it, (5:30) and, you know, it’s joyful. The other thing is I walked away, very scary day in 2015 when I(5:37) walked away from Medicare and Blue Cross and said, you know, I have value to people. You know, (5:42) people don’t pay an attorney usually with legal insurance. 

They pay an attorney for their value (5:48) and the rest, and I believe that I have educated myself, gone to conferences, and done advanced (5:54) work, so, you know, that was a scary moment, but the end result now nine years later is it’s a very (6:00) entrepreneurial feeling. You own your business. Many of the people listening to us own their (6:04) business. 

We know that there’s a lot of responsibility to being a business owner. (6:10) There’s a lot of risk. There’s a lot of nights that you wonder, and anyways, I’ve enjoyed all (6:15) that. 

I grew up in a family business, retail business. I saw the difficulties and times my (6:21) father had making decisions about where to spend the blue chips, and same thing happens here, but (6:27) it’s if you can create it in medicine, as rare as it is, it’s still a wonderful model. (6:33) You know, and, you know, I’m rolling the dice that I can convince you that I’m worth your, (6:39) you know, your time and your money, so I have to do value-added. 

I have to do very personal. I have (6:45) to do a lot of follow-up, and, you know, I don’t mind that. I don’t mind being on vacation and (6:50) answering patient emails because, you know, they’re like family to me. 

Well, you know, I mean, (6:55) we grew up, my family, my dad’s parents, my dad, when he was younger, grew up next to Dr. Hefka, (7:03) and Dr. Hefka was always our family physician, and actually that, through that lineage of Dr. (7:09) Hefka’s office is actually how we became to know the doctor that introduced you and I. (7:16) Right. (7:16) Because his brother actually was ultimately the guy who purchased the practice, but we always had (7:23) this, you know, the old-fashioned like you’d see on TV, the guy with the bag that came to your (7:27) house, or you could go to his house, or, you know, you had his home phone number, you had his work (7:33) phone number, and almost it felt like unlimited time with them and certainly knew the entire (7:38) family, knew the entire story all the way through, and so the level of care that we always experienced(7:45) in our life was amazing, and then, you know, after Dr. Hefka retired and then since passed,(7:51) you know, we were then kind of part of the medical system, and so until we were turned on to, (7:56) you know, the model that you have, you know, we really didn’t experience that again, so I even (8:01) see, I see you as a, as a, as a, as a cardiac guy concierge, and then they have another doctor (8:08) concierge on the, on the, what do they call the, the primary care physician, PCP, and so, you know, (8:19) that’s about the only way these days to get the, to get the type of attention that what, (8:24) what you can provide. Yeah, there’s really good doctors in a really tough medical system, (8:28) you know, I hear patients tell me, patients this morning told me, you know, waiting in the waiting (8:34) room for 45 minutes or an hour and seeing a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant, (8:39) which are wonderful people, but they came to see their doctor and they didn’t know the appointment (8:44) was not going to be with their doctor. 

I mean, these are the trends that are out there, and I (8:48) at some point, AI, you may be giving your history to a robotic interviewer, that actually may be (8:55) reasonable, that actually may help quality diagnosis, actually, but, you know, people still (9:00) like personal touch, and, you know, my patient at two o’clock is in my office at two o’clock, and (9:07) I value their time, they’re very often like you are, you know, important executives and (9:13) teachers and health professionals, and, you know, I want to get them in and out and (9:19) honor their, their life too. So yeah, I know a lot about my patients, I usually know the dog’s (9:24) names, and I always know where they eat, what they eat, who cooks their food, and all the details (9:30) that kind of make a difference. Well, I think that the thing that people maybe don’t understand too, (9:35) is that it’s not that expensive of an investment to actually see a doctor like you. 

So, (9:41) I think sometimes it’s just that people don’t know that it’s an option. (9:45) Yeah, it’s true. There’s a couple of extreme examples in this country of (9:49) 40, $50,000 a year to have a, you know, high profile concierge physician. 

I mean, (9:58) you know, I’d have to see 200 patients to generate for, you know, $40,000, $50,000. It’s much more (10:05) reasonable. And I could raise it, but I really like the diversity of what I do. 

I do see school (10:10) teachers, retirees, I see people in the clergy, and I see people that run $100 billion businesses. (10:19) And you know, honestly, their blood pressure and their blood work and their heart testing (10:23) and their issues are all the same, of course. Absolutely. 

And it sounds like, I mean, it always (10:30) feels like to me, I mean, you’re very filled up in your, in your job. I mean, it, it, it fills (10:35) your heart, what you’re doing. Am I correct? Right. 

You know, I don’t know if it’s pathologic. (10:41) I golfed in the past. I’ve been a fisherman in the past. 

I’m very dedicated to my family (10:47) and my elderly mother. And I’m very dedicated to my career by reading and keeping up to date. (10:53) But largely, you know, one of the best things you can do, and this doesn’t relate to everybody, (10:58) but you know, if you’re in the service industry, it’s wonderful. 

And I love talking to my patients (11:04) and I love working with them. So, you know, I don’t really call it work. It’s a passion. 

It’s a (11:10) profession and it’s been a wonderful, wonderful thing. I recently turned 65 years old and some (11:17) of my peers have retired, but I hope to repeat this interview in 10 years and I’ll bring you (11:22) all the updates and maybe more than that. And you opened a location in Florida as well, (11:30) so that you can see patients in both Michigan and Florida. 

(11:34) Yeah. You know, one of the ways I’ve been able to succeed in this practice is (11:40) I developed a podcast. I’m pretty proficient on social media. 

I do my own. I write blogs, (11:46) I write newsletters. But I learned that it was not hard to get licensed in other states and (11:51) Florida and New York, California, Texas are obviously the big ones, but I have about 20 (11:57) licenses. 

And I grew up visiting Florida all the time. My mother spends the winter in Florida (12:02) and it just became possible to create a real hybrid practice. So I could have just done (12:08) telemedicine in Florida, but I have so many patients down there and some of them come up (12:14) to Michigan. 

So I opened an office in Boca Raton in Miami and bounced back and forth for a few (12:20) months this year. I’ll do it again next year. It’s really pretty, you know, it’s an interesting (12:24) model. 

I’m just creating as I go, but it worked very well. I didn’t advertise. I’m enough out (12:30) there on social media that, you know, it created its own volume easily. 

And it doesn’t feel like (12:37) your patients here are missing a beat. I mean, because they’re, no pun intended, by the way, (12:42) because you’re always available through the telehealth model, through Zoom or whatever (12:48) teams or whatever you use. Yeah. 

I continue to take care of, you know, Midwest patients, (12:52) just like I continue to take care of out-of-state patients currently. (12:57) It works very well for what I do. I can’t put a stethoscope to the computer and I can’t check (13:03) a blood pressure, but if nothing else comes to this interview, everybody listening ought to own (13:09) a home blood pressure cuff. 

Put on your arm, hit the button. If you want a brand, Omron Platinum. (13:16) That’s just a good brand. 

I don’t own it. And use it regularly. And anyways, when I do (13:21) telemedicine, that’s just a requirement that you have a home blood pressure cuff. 

(13:26) Sure. Sure. So the transitions that you made, is there any kind of, any thoughts you might share (13:34) with other physicians or other business owners or, you know, people that you can relate with (13:39) going through those transitions from the traditional model to the model that you’re under (13:43) now to this kind of ever evolving model that you’re continuing to explore as you, you know, (13:50) as you continue to serve your patient base. 

Yeah. You know, some of it’s, you know, (13:54) specific to medicine, some isn’t. I mean, I did a lot of groundwork and I learned social media. 

I (14:02) mean, I knew I needed to get my name out there and every day, I mean, if you follow me, I have (14:07) 15,000 friends on LinkedIn. I mean, I post medical articles and videos and interviews and the rest. (14:16) And, you know, I have way more than 15,000 on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. 

And, you know, (14:23) I just learned that. I haven’t been to courses and I know I could do it better, but to reach (14:28) three, 400,000 people a day, social media is a great tool. And to me, it’s a free tool at this (14:33) point. 

I don’t pay anybody. I rarely have a consultant in that area. Number two, you need (14:40) a website, obviously. 

And I’ve been through a few generations, but I have a pretty good SEO (14:45) enhanced website. And I add new content to it because I’m told that does upgrade your search (14:51) potential. Number three, I did hire at a low cost, a firm that offers patients when they leave the (14:59) office, the opportunity to leave a Google review right away on their phone. 

And I have 1,600 (15:05) five-star Google reviews. And, you know, I think people use things like that. Some have glowing (15:11) comments and some are just five gold stars. 

And, you know, that was something I started long ago. (15:19) Nobody told me to, it just seemed to make sense. Worked well. 

One of the biggest things I did is (15:24) what you’re doing is I started a podcast eight years ago. You know, I knew there were podcasts (15:30) out there. I could have paid four or $5,000 a month to a consultant. 

I didn’t think that was (15:35) worth it. I didn’t think it mattered if I was a top 10 podcast in the world. So pretty raw weekly (15:42) 30-minute podcast called Heart Doc VIP on iTunes and Spotify. 

And it’s grown and grown and grown. (15:49) And of course, people listen to it in Australia and the Ukraine and, you know, across the United (15:55) States. And that’s actually been a great lead generator. 

I remember you and I did some, (16:00) we and I did some speaking together and you would always say, you know, your goal was to (16:07) prevent a million heart attacks. And one of the only ways you can do that is by getting the message (16:12) that you, you know, the good messages that you have in front of the right amount of people to (16:17) get to those numbers. That’s true. 

But then the next thing really was, and I’m not going to go (16:21) real long here, was, I mean, how do I get a message across? Well, it’s constant self-education. (16:28) And it actually, before there was self-education, before I opened my own clinic, (16:34) I went back to many courses, paid courses, continuing medical education courses. (16:41) Some were in the standard world, but many were in the integrative holistic, (16:46) you know, natural health world, usually through university connections. 

So there was some (16:52) credibility to it all. And I did a lot of that and that’s where I developed my voice. And, (16:57) you know, that was about 2011, 2012. 

So I quickly got a book contract with Reader’s Digest and (17:03) published a book and wrote in their magazine. And, you know, it just gave me some instant (17:09) appearance of credibility. Now, I know you know me well enough to know that that’s, (17:13) you know, largely smoke and dagger. 

No, I mean, I have credibility. I have authority. (17:18) I think your credibility really, I mean, a lot of your credibility comes from the fact that you, (17:22) you have the traditional medicine side and you have the holistic medical side. 

So I do know (17:27) you know, when we talk about vitamins or we talk about supplementation,(17:31) you know, that you’re actually looking at the regular pharmaceuticals that someone takes as (17:37) well and saying, okay, do we have any data? Does this interact? Does this not interact?(17:43) And then one of the other things that I’ve noticed about you too, that I think brings (17:48) a balanced approach is that you are constantly updating yourself on the data. And so you will,(17:57) you will change your opinion based on the data, right? And I think also there’s… (18:02) Dr. Kahneman When new things come up, you have to, (18:05) I have brought in new technologies, new testing. And yeah, you know, even just like everybody’s (18:12) heard of Wagovi and Ozempic and, you know, those drugs have come on like a hurricane. 

But, you (18:18) know, two years ago, very few cardiologists were putting them, you know, in their knowledge base. (18:24) They were diabetic drugs. And, you know, I slowly had to learn the science, but you know, just (18:30) every step is, you know, another tool in the toolbox. 

And not that I use those a lot. (18:36) I’ll just share. (18:37) Dr. Kahneman Well, I guess what I’m, I guess what I’m (18:38) talking about, though, too, is, is like, you’re, you’re a vegan, you have been for over 40 years, (18:43) correct? And, you know, but, and you treat people with a vegan diet as part of as for some. 

But you (18:52) also when you’re doing your research, I mean, like, I’ve seen you write and heard on your (18:56) podcast, you talking about, you know, the Mediterranean diet and things of that nature. (19:00) So it’s, so it’s not like you’re fixed minded, I think, is that is the piece. And I think that, (19:05) to me, is what speaks to entrepreneurs or people who might be listening to this,(19:08) you know, is that that’s where they can find that commonality with you. 

(19:12) Dr. Kahneman Well, you know, I had a heart patient (19:14) this morning before we started to talk. And I could sense, you know, she has heart disease, (19:19) she’s 83, that she was not going to get much of my vegan message. My vegan message is because the (19:26) science is so strongly in favor of it for heart patients. 

So I’m not going to make her feel bad or, (19:34) you know, preach to her. But she did leave here with one of the books I’ve written on that topic, (19:38) which is all science based, it’s all heavily referenced. And, you know, I’ll give her some (19:42) time. 

We’ll see. I’m happy if she’ll eat a big salad every day and, you know, a little less (19:50) animal product, a little more plant product. We’ll see. 

I just want to share because it is (19:54) interesting. At the very beginning, I was introduced to some high level marketing meetings, (20:00) very much like, you know, you’re involved with. And I’ll say there was a gentleman in Tempe, (20:06) Arizona, Joe Polish. 

Many people know Joe Polish. He’s very good friends with Tony Robbins. (20:13) They do many events together. 

And he had a group called 25K because it costs 25K to spend a year (20:20) in his group. And he had to fly out there. So it costs more than 25K. 

And I wasn’t the only (20:25) physician there, but there weren’t a lot. And usually there was something they had to sell, (20:31) a vitamin line, some equipment because, you know, and I just had my time to sell. But I learned so (20:37) much during that year. 

I didn’t continue on because I didn’t have the kind of volume to (20:44) justify it. And it’s kind of a dirty word to talk about learning about marketing and reading (20:50) marketing books. And I did and I didn’t get great at it. 

But, you know, I learned enough about, (20:55) you know, newsletters and, you know, he was big on yellow pages. I never did that. But I will say (21:01) the big deal was you had a chance to do like a TED talk. 

It was a 10 minute TED talk and somebody (21:08) canceled and I was given like one day. Would you like the spot? And I’m bold. Yeah. 

And I had to (21:15) create a 10 minute PowerPoint. That’s a lot easier than an hour long PowerPoint. And the topic I (21:21) talked about became a book and the book kind of became my platform for what we’re talking about. 

(21:26) I’ll be promotional that the talk I gave was called Dead Execs Don’t Get Bonuses, which is a(21:32) book. It’s inexpensive. And it sort of laid out, you know, I told my wife what I was going to call (21:37) the book. 

She said, you’re nuts. People will be offended. Dead exec spouses will be offended and (21:42) they might be. 

But, you know, when the CEO of McDonald’s, John Cantalupo, Jim Cantalupo, (21:48) drops dead at age 60 in a hotel in Miami. I mean, there’s a story there. And that impacted his (21:53) family and impacted the business and impacted the board. 

And so anyways, this is a plan. And much of (22:00) what I do in my practice is, you know, you’re buying life insurance. I want to teach you about (22:04) health insurance in terms of, you know, testing and disease identification, disease prevention. 

(22:12) And I’ll work with your brain, too. I’ll work with your cancer risk. So it’s very much a corporate (22:18) philosophy, but it’s much more aggressive even than patients of mine that go to the Mayo Clinic, (22:24) Great Place or Cleveland Clinic for executive physicals. 

I mean, this is even more in-depth (22:29) than that. Sure. And what do you do from an annual standpoint for folks? I know Cleveland Clinic (22:36) offers their executive physicals for 3,500 bucks or something like that. 

What sort of annual (22:47) regimen would you be recommending to people? Yeah, real quickly, lots of questions. By the (22:53) time somebody leaves my office, it’s an hour. You know, I know, you know, from their dentist, (22:58) to their diet, to their sexual health, to their stress, to their sleep and, you know, (23:03) obviously medical history, as many records as they can give me as possible. 

We’re going to do (23:07) extensive lab work, usually more than I see done at a Mayo Clinic kind of situation. And that’s (23:14) through insurance. I don’t have people self-pay for labs. 

Although there are several companies (23:19) now that if you’re willing to pay four or $500, you can get an unbelievable panel of blood work (23:25) that you self-pay for. And sometimes we use that. You have to have heart testing. 

The minimum is (23:31) called a heart calcium CT scan. It costs about a hundred bucks, whether you live in San Francisco (23:37) or New York or Miami or Detroit. That’s a minimum. 

There’s a more advanced CT scan of the heart now (23:43) called a CT angiogram with artificial intelligence interpretation that has come on like a storm (23:50) because of the accuracy and the advanced knowledge. So I’ve ordered hundreds and hundreds of those. (23:56) You don’t see those built into the high-level executive physicals very often. 

It’s a pure (24:01) cardiology tool. We’ll usually check the blood flow to your brain. Those are called carotid (24:06) arteries. 

It seems obvious. You might want to know that. More and more, we’re talking about an MRI (24:12) scan. 

You’re self-paying for this from your head down to your thigh that screens for unknown cancers(24:19) and aneurysms. Not as much medical science for that as the heart screening, but it’s available. (24:25) And for people that are motivated, there’s also a blood test for undetected early cancer. 

(24:31) That’s also in the cash world, but people know about it and many grab onto that. You know,(24:37) if you’re going to win the battle against heart disease, you better focus on the next battle,(24:41) which is cancer health. And we’re going to talk a lot about brain health. 

I mean, (24:45) what you do for your heart, you’re doing for your brain and cancer risk. They’re all pretty similar. (24:50) And, you know, people are worried about memory and Alzheimer’s. 

And we actually (24:54) do a lot of work on that. Even just today, the famous lifestyle doctor in San Francisco, (25:00) Dr. Dean Ornish, many people know his name, published a major research study that people (25:06) with early dementia that adopt a whole food plant-based diet, exercise, stress management, (25:14) breath work, group support can actually start to reverse their early dementia about half the time. (25:20) Major breakthrough. 

It’s in the headlines everywhere. So we’ve been teaching that for (25:24) a long time here, you know, for more than heart disease, for prostate health, breast health. (25:29) Great. 

Great. This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Oxium, business IT and cybersecurity(25:35) designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, automate your network with Juniper (25:40) Networks and the Mist AI platform, the world’s first AI-driven wired and wireless network. 

(25:48) And what does family life look like for you? (25:52) When I get home. I do put a big focus on it, but I do a lot of work from home. Although I’m in my (25:59) office, you know, five days a week, but I’ll do the follow-up and the emails at my kitchen table (26:04) so I can be around. 

A wonderful wife of 43 years, amazing woman, a nurse, but she basically runs (26:11) everything in the background. I couldn’t cash a check if I needed to. I assume she’s putting the (26:18) dollars in the right place. 

And if she hasn’t helped, she has fun with it. I have three wonderful (26:24) kids, all married, one grandchild and one on the way, two in town, one in New York. And, you know, (26:30) probably talk to them all six days a week at least. 

You know, quick conversation sometimes, (26:39) dog walks sometimes. I’m proud of them. None are in the medical field, but they’re doing great. 

(26:45) You know, I think I set the example of hard work and, you know, perseverance, and they’re doing (26:50) very well what they do. My mother’s still alive. I spend a lot of time, you know, watching her, (26:58) monitoring her health in 91. 

Very, very cognitively sharp woman. Not a lot of hobbies. (27:05) I mean, I’m a little involved in some charities. 

This week, I went to one two days ago at Ford (27:11) Field in Detroit. And last night I was at the big train station grand opening in downtown Detroit, (27:17) which wasn’t really a charity event, but it was one of Detroit’s best nights in the history of (27:22) Detroit. And what can you tell us about that? What was that like? Well, you know, for anybody (27:26) listening that’s not, we have a section of Detroit called Corktown, probably because a (27:31) lot of people came from Cork, Ireland, I think. 

And it was a very vibrant area with a big train (27:37) station. We call it Detroit’s Ellis Island. You know, the auto industry was booming in the 20s, (27:43) 30s, 40s. 

Many people arrived through that train station and got great paying jobs and benefits. (27:49) But the train station closed in the 80s and it became just an eyesore of drug addicts and graffiti(27:55) and rats and terrible. And it was major efforts to tear it down, a 16 story, originally gorgeous (28:04) building. 

I think at one point it was the largest train station in the United States, (28:09) 1916, I think. I wouldn’t have known this. But anyways, Ford Motor bought the train station (28:16) in 2018 or 19 for $90 million and put in 900 billion, no, 900 million, of course, sorry, (28:27) to restore it to its pristine, you know, marble and sculptured appearance. 

And last night was (28:35) the grand opening with Diana Ross singing and Jack White, Eminem and choirs. And I got invited (28:44) to the VIP group, very honored to be there. It was amazing night. 

And that whole area is so (28:50) rejuvenated now. The old Tiger Stadium corner is hotels and restaurants and coffee shops. (28:58) Detroit is a strong contender for a wonderful city to be in. 

And, you know, we’ve got our (29:04) first big skyscraper almost finished in, you know, 50 years. The, I don’t know what they’re (29:11) calling it, the Hudson Tower, I think it’s called, but it’s quite amazing in the skyline to see that (29:16) going on. We brought some people in from out of town, some clients of ours at our IT company, (29:23) and we hosted them down in Detroit. 

And the one comment was that they said, it reminds me of how (29:29) Nashville used to be. We were standing on top of a rooftop and kind of looking over the building, (29:34) and they just said it was so beautiful. They had no idea that Detroit was this beautiful. 

(29:39) Yeah, we don’t have a lot of new buildings, but they sure have done, at least downtown,(29:43) and then the second section midtown to take these old, beautiful buildings and restore them, (29:49) turn them into condos and office space. So yeah, it’s, I grew up in this town as you did, and (29:54) I saw it when it was good, and I saw it when it was bad, and it’s a lot gooder.(29:59) It sure is. 

It sure is. It’s very nice right now. I do know that in your recreation time, (30:06) you spend time with some canines and some paddle sports. 

So talk about that a little bit. (30:13) They’re often combined. Yeah, I did not grow up with dogs. 

I grew up with allergies and a (30:17) concerned mother. My wife grew up with dogs, but I don’t know if I can tell you. 17 years ago, (30:24) we adopted a dog. 

My daughter was home alone because her older brothers were in college, (30:29) and that’s a whole story of its own, but I fell in love, you know, with canines and rescues. It (30:37) was a 25-pound terrier mix, and we enjoyed Jake for quite a while, and then we got a second one (30:47) right after, a little rescue called Eva, and the irony was my grandparents on my father’s side,(30:53) their names were Jake and Eva, and we didn’t pick the names. The dog canes were the names. 

(30:57) Some of our family members were offended. My two dogs had the same name as my grandparents. (31:03) We’ve done the same thing at our house. 

They had very similar personalities (31:08) to the grandparents’ name. It was very, very interesting. One was aggressive. 

One was passive. (31:14) One was loud. One was quiet, but we still got Eva at almost age 16 and two more rescues, (31:20) so we got three dogs at home, although my hardworking attorney’s son took a weekend up north (31:27) starting today, so we have a fourth dog. 

I doodle at home, and my wife, God bless her, I love the (31:34) dogs around. None of them are real big, so, you know, they’re everywhere all the time. We must (31:39) take five dog walks a day, and it’s good for your health, and it’s good for your spirit, so. 

(31:45) When I see you taking them on the paddleboard. (31:47) On my kayak, a paddleboard. That first dog, a blessed memory was, I used to call it Michael (31:54) Feltz. 

He could swim the lake for hours. Wow. These latest generation are not big swimmers, (32:01) so they sit in the kayak, and they sit on a paddleboard, and they enjoy sometimes with a (32:07) life jacket on. 

Sometimes they don’t need that. So, you know, you’ve also taken some risks, too. (32:14) You opened a couple of restaurants. 

Your son was running at least one of them for you. (32:20) What are some of the lessons learned from the restaurant business, and how do you compare (32:26) them to the doctor world? Yeah, you know, I had been traveling a lot to New York and LA (32:32) and Miami, and I had been in this plant-based movement, and we just didn’t have a restaurant (32:38) like there were many of in those cities. Of course, they’re much bigger cities, (32:43) and my son, who’s a good businessman and has an MBA, and I, you know, we came up with a plan, (32:49) and we got a team, and we have no restaurant experience and no chef experience. 

That’s (32:53) a problem, and I had many people tell me, you’re crazy, people in the restaurant world, (33:00) and, you know, you don’t know what you’re getting into, and so we had an amazing three, (33:05) three-and-a-half-year run. We were truly the volume of sales and people and business. We had (33:11) a very large restaurant with a full liquor license and a small secondary carryout one. 

(33:16) We actually bought a food truck and did it up royally, and then chefs left and employee issues, (33:25) and we were getting fatigued, to be honest, because, you know, for my son, it was full-time. (33:30) For my wife, I gave her a 25-hour-a-week job that she didn’t completely ask for. She did it great, (33:36) but she’s very personable with all our, you know, guests, and I was there 25 hours a week after work, (33:43) and anyways, right before COVID, we got a lease renewal that was huge, and we decided we’re (33:48) going to shut it down, and it turns out, had we renewed and tried to run it during COVID, (33:53) because in Michigan, restaurants were shut down, and then, you know, nobody could find (33:59) employees. 

You know, it’s still a tough business in 2024. Lessons learned. Stick to what you know (34:06) best. 

Maybe don’t go in the restaurant business if you’re not chef trained, because that actually (34:11) would have helped one of us to be chef trained. You know, I don’t regret it, you know, taking(34:16) risks. It was a wonderful time. 

I lost money, I mean, but, you know, if you’ve never stepped out (34:23) of your mold, you’re never, you know, you know you’re at risk for losing money, but it never was, (34:29) you know, going to risk my, you know, my primary passion and vocation, and I’ve done a few things (34:37) along the way, but I’ve had a very straight through line of cardiology practice being my (34:42) primary thing I do, and, you know, I didn’t lose my mind to close my practice and go in the (34:47) restaurant business. You know, we picked about the toughest industry you can pick, so we know, (34:54) you know, you know the statistics at five years, the percentage of restaurants are no longer open, so(34:59) we proudly say we did it, and frankly, there’s people come up all the time, I wish you were(35:04) open last night. People are asking, I wish you were open, I wish you were open, because there’s (35:07) no substitute in Detroit, unfortunately. 

No, in fact, I mean, a lot of the people that were in (35:12) that circle that, you know, that you’ve introduced me to, I mean, had places, had to close them, (35:18) and it’s, it seems like a big challenge. I mean, there’s a few healthier options out there now (35:24) that are chain related, you know, there’s a clean eats, I’ve seen clean, you know, clean eats, (35:29) things like that, but no vegan, you know, no vegan options like that. (35:34) Yeah, the trend in the industry, actually, is some of the large vegan restaurants on the coast (35:41) are now adding organic meats, a little more like the chain called True Foods that Andrew (35:47) Weil’s involved with. 

You know, it’s a more obvious business model, you can, you know, (35:53) with only one to two percent of the population apparently being vegan, and the number hasn’t (35:58) grown much, to be honest, we’re all surprised, hasn’t really grown much, you know, if you can (36:03) now capture the other 97% with a pleasing location and meal, we struggle with it. I just couldn’t do (36:12) that. I mean, having been so dedicated to what we did, I don’t know that it would, you know, (36:17) it would have been a different outcome if we had some chicken and fish dishes. 

We would have lost, (36:23) for sure, our core, you know, audience. Yeah, I mean, it was great. I mean, we loved all the (36:29) places that you had. 

They were amazing. So, you couldn’t tell from the outside that you didn’t (36:35) have experience in the restaurant business. Somehow, we pulled it off, you know, 500 (36:41) covers a night on a Saturday for, you know, a couple of years, which is a huge number, and we (36:46) had good ratings and reviews. 

If anybody ever is in Austin, Texas, my food truck’s still there, (36:52) I don’t own it anymore. It’s called ATX Food Co. It’s amazing on Lamar Avenue. 

So, (36:59) I’ll give a shout out to two Detroiters that moved to Austin to do that project, and they’ve done it (37:05) amazing. Well, we’ll make sure that we put the links out here for anybody who’s, anybody who’s (37:09) watching. So, we’ve covered business, we’ve covered life, we’ve covered a lot of the (37:14) transformations that you’ve done and the risks that you’ve taken. 

You know, the technology, (37:19) we’ve touched on it a little bit. You know, we talked about the full-body MRI. We’ve talked about (37:25) the CT angio with the AI. 

We’ve talked about, you know, different things that you’ve always been (37:31) at the, you know, at the forefront of that research. If you had a crystal ball and could (37:36) look out the next three to five years, what do you think is going to happen in the medical world (37:42) that’s going to affect most people, technology-wise? How’s technology going? (37:47) Technology-wise, you know, you’d have to come back to AI. You know, in my, a lot of it’s about (37:52) imaging, AI electrocardiograms, AI cardiac catheterizations, AI echo tests, AI stress (38:00) tests. 

Right now, CT for sure. It’s easy with CT. But I think AI is going to show up, you know, (38:07) in interactions. 

You know, you’re going to give your history to an AI-generated robotic (38:15) system. And I think, you know, in some sense that’s kind of available. I mean, I know a lot, (38:21) but can I, when I come across an unusual patient, which I’ve had this week, you know, can I know (38:28) the entire world’s literature and generate all the possibilities for dizziness and lightheadedness (38:35) and blackouts and, you know, when things don’t fit the easy puzzle, that’s where AI comes in. 

(38:42) I think it’s going to be helpful. So I think there’s going to be a strong and increasing (38:48) infiltration in a good way. And I don’t think there’s any other technology (38:55) that’s going to rival it to be kind of transformative. 

I mean, is there going to (39:00) be something new in imaging? You know, we have ultrasound and MRI and CT. (39:06) I don’t, PET scanning to some degree, but I don’t see any real breakthrough. Lab work (39:12) always gets better and better, but I don’t see the breakthrough thing. 

More and more genetic (39:17) testing at a lower cost. Okay. What do you think about the at-home, you know, you’re seeing (39:25) somebody with telemedicine and you have all the meters and everything at home, you put it on (39:30) yourself and then the doctor can see it. 

Is that going to be part of the? Yeah, that’s actually, (39:34) I had experienced 25 years ago with a company called MyBuddy. Probably nobody remembers that (39:42) and it doesn’t exist anymore, but it was an old fashioned Mac box, you know, early Mac box. I had (39:49) one of those. 

So we’ve got to be talking late 1980s and you would, you know, you could monitor (39:55) your heart status by various apparatus and, you know, it was a real slow version. So this is not (40:00) brand new, but yeah, I think wearables that information gets dumped in for sleep and fitness(40:09) and body temperature and probably ultimately blood sugar. The one we really need is a good (40:14) blood pressure wearable. 

I’ll show you, this is pretty cool. I have it sitting right here. (40:21) This is a device made in Israel called BioBeat and it’s a patch for 24 hours, not forever, (40:29) that every 15 minutes through your skin measures your blood pressure. 

And at the end of 24 hours, (40:34) you throw it away and you get a report. Transformative. They just changed their (40:39) platform and I have to work with it a bit to figure out how to use it again. 

We did a bunch (40:44) of them. So that’s an example of. Is there an easy way where you can explain how that works? (40:50) How is it using the skin versus using the actual pressure? (40:54) Read the book. 

A professor of mine at University of Michigan Medical School used to say that with (41:01) a German accent, read the book. I think it’s called photoplethysmography, just like how does (41:07) your aura ring if you wear one of those or your whoop band or your Apple watch. How does it(41:12) measure your oxygen and your heart rate and your EKG? I think the technology is called(41:18) photoplethysmography. 

Wow. But it’s all been validated and FDA approved, so (41:22) things like that will be transformative. What about on the stinting side? I mean, (41:29) I know that used to be a big part of your practice when you were doing surgeries, obviously. 

(41:35) Are we seeing a lot of technological advancements in the, not just the preventative, but now the (41:41) diseases here and we have to treat it and we have to, you know, thwart it off from here? (41:46) Yeah. Stents in the heart, stents in the legs, stents in the brain. I’d say there’s going to (41:52) be advances, but not transformative. 

The big area has been valves. Until 10, 15 years ago, (42:01) if you had a clogged valve or a leaky heart valve, it was surgery. Now there’s a procedure. 

It’s a (42:10) crack in your chest. And if you have a badly blocked aortic valve, it can be replaced. If(42:15) you have a leaky mitral valve, it can be clipped. 

Now there’s a leaky tricuspid valve, it can be (42:21) clipped. Give a shout out to good Dr. Mehmet Oz. Dr. Oz actually has the patent on how you clip (42:30) mitral valves to avoid surgery, probably making a fortune on it because it’s a very good and (42:36) popular technique nowadays called mitra-clip. 

And you can patent the process? Is that how that (42:42) works? Yeah. It was when he submitted the patent 20 years ago, it was radical. It was space age (42:47) Buck Norton kind of stuff. 

Buck Rogers, maybe it is. Now, one of them’s a country star and one of (42:53) them’s space age. So you guys go figure it out. 

But there’s a lot of Bucks in Buck Rogers and (42:59) the other Buck. But yeah, that’s really been a radical breakthrough. (43:04) Wow. 

Wow. Okay. I know you’ve got some things to do here today and we’re short on time. 

So (43:13) if there’s one piece of parting advice to maybe let’s do it to the executives because you have (43:21) the book. What would be your one piece of advice? Well, I’ll go back to a hashtag test not guess. (43:27) If you’re 45 to 50, and if you’re over that double speed, you need an evaluation. 

I don’t (43:35) care if you run five miles a day, if you play pickleball two hours a day on the weekend, (43:40) you need to know your coronary artery calcium score. You need to know if your arteries are (43:45) aging or not. If your heart arteries are aging, your body’s aging. 

It’s well done science. You (43:50) risk a dementia, kidney disease, lung disease, cancer goes up. And all you got to do is focus (43:55) on the heart and that’s easy and inexpensive. 

Great lab work, great hard testing and get serious (44:01) about your lifestyle. Maybe it’s 70% of the equation genetics is the rest, but it does (44:07) matter. You don’t want to retire from a great executive career and get involved in the American (44:15) medical system with disease. 

And as almost any disease you mentioned, your diet, your sleep, (44:22) your fitness, your stress management, your social connections, your alcohol intake, (44:29) moderate or less, but not excessive. Now these are major players on how you’re going to enjoy (44:36) the retirement year. So, you know, dead execs don’t get bonuses and they don’t have much fun (44:40) either. 

And, you know, heart disease, cancer, brain disease, and what we call metabolic disease, (44:47) the diabetic spectrum. We’re really good at testing. You may pay out of pocket, but we’re (44:53) really good. 

Good, good. And what about, what about smiling? Ah, you did bring one. Smiling is (45:00) key. 

Smiling, you know, you know, I would say smiling and gratitude. I wake up every morning. (45:07) There’s an ancient Hebrew prayer that takes 30 seconds. 

I actually say it every morning, just (45:13) acknowledging that there are people that didn’t wake up and there are people that woke up with (45:18) a health issue. So can you say it, can you say it for us in Hebrew? And, you know, I grew up in a (45:29) conservative family. I didn’t say that as a kid, but it sort of resonated with me that, you know, (45:35) in many ways, gratitude and resilience and self-care. 

I mean, these are just core principles. (45:43) Well, thanks. I think that’s a, that’s a perfect wrap up to a great conversation. 

So thanks for (45:49) being here and all these links and information to how anyone could reach Dr. Kahn. If you want (45:55) to get evaluated or buy his book or just get to know him and follow him on social media as well. (46:01) Thank you. 

(46:03) Thank you.