Transcript 

(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen. 

(0:14) It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in. 

(0:39) Hi, I’m Matt Loria with the BLTNT podcast. In this episode, we are featuring Dana Schmidt,(0:45) the president of the United Shore Professional Baseball League. I always say it by its acronym, (0:51) so I had to actually glance at the notes here. 

That’s right. Yeah, thanks for having me, Matt. (0:54) Thanks for being here. 

So, is United Shore a sponsor? Is that how they got their name there? (1:01) Right, and it started as United Shore at that time and changed to UWM, so now we are USPBL (1:12) powered by UWM. Got it, got it. Okay, so if we want the Auxium name on there, we have to (1:17) really pony up. 

We would have to talk about that after. Okay, just put a little AU at the end of (1:22) that. We’ll be okay. 

So, Dana, recently you had changed roles or positions from the COO (1:32) of the organization to the president. How long ago was that? About two years ago. Two years? Okay, (1:37) and what drove that change? What sort of responsibilities changed for you in that (1:44) transition? Not a lot. 

It basically was I was already doing the functions of my current jobs, (1:52) the president, but just something that Andy, my RCEO and owner, wanted to do for me. Great. (2:01) Just to, I guess, make it clear that I was his right-hand person, but it didn’t really change (2:07) what I’m doing, and I also do all the legal work for the league, and I don’t have the general (2:12) counsel title on my, that was my choice to not have that title. 

Sometimes that scares people, (2:19) and they don’t, they aren’t as open with you if they think you’re the lawyer. Sure. And while (2:23) that is part of what I do, it’s not my main focus of what I do, even though some days it’s all I do. 

(2:30) So, but yeah, it was just something that he felt like he wanted to give me that title, so (2:38) really more from the outside world. People knew that he trusted me, I guess, but it didn’t really,(2:46) didn’t really change my responsibilities or sort of how I thought about myself and my role with (2:51) the organization. Sure. 

I think those of us who have known you for a while have always thought (2:55) you were the president, so it was a natural, natural thing for all of us from the outside (3:01) looking in, so that’s great. We really had some nice time to chat before we got started here on (3:09) the show, and I got to learn a lot of the different layers of the onion that is Dana and Andy and the (3:15) league, and really your whole venture that you, that you, that you guys run. So, can we talk (3:24) about some of that and share some of this, this timeline? Let’s, we’ll start with the business, (3:28) because, you know, we’re the BLTNT, so Business Life Technology and Transformation, so we’ll start (3:33) with business here. 

Yeah. You joined their firm, and you, Andy, Andy found you, convinced you. Yeah, so (3:41) basically, I met Andy in 97. 

Okay. And he was planning at that point to leave. He was with (3:53) Pistons and Palace Sports and Entertainment, and kind of had gone as far as he could go there. 

(3:59) The next seat was Tom Wilson’s, and Tom was still a young guy, and Andy was 36, and, but he felt like (4:08) he had accomplished what he could accomplish there, so he left of his own accord to start his (4:13) own business, and he started our parent company for the baseball league called General Sports (4:18) and Entertainment, and I met Andy at that time. I was practicing law in Chicago and had grown up here, (4:27) but moved there after law school and went to a certain point of my career at two and a half years (4:35) into practicing law, decided, and knew I wanted to work in sports, decided it was time to start (4:40) looking to make that move. I just knew the longer you stay working at a law firm, you’re going to get (4:46) the golden handcuffs, you’re not, it’s going to be really hard to leave and make a change like that (4:50) in your career, and hard to break into sports. 

Everybody wants to work in sports. As Andy likes (4:56) to say, we work in the toy department, so I happened to meet him while I was looking in other avenues (5:03) to get into sports, and met him through a family connection, and he happened to be leaving at that (5:10) time to start General Sports and Entertainment, so we ended up talking for two years. He brought (5:16) he started with another guy who was his general counsel, and that guy ended up moving to Indianapolis (5:23) to focus on motorsports after a couple of years, and at that point, Andy and I agreed that I would(5:30) move back to Michigan, and I started off as his general counsel, and so at this point, I’m a lawyer (5:36) for four years, certainly not in a position where I should be anybody’s general counsel, but he didn’t (5:41) know that, and he didn’t really know what I was going to do for him, but I knew I could write, (5:47) I knew I could help him, and so I ended up having to do a lot of legal things that I hadn’t done (5:53) before, but I just relied on my relationships, people that had mentored me along the way in (6:03) in the law, and would call them for advice, or do you have a template of something I can use for (6:09) this or that, and that’s how I started, and when I came to General Sports and Entertainment, the first (6:15) thing Andy had done was he bought a minor league baseball team in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and at the (6:21) time, it was called the Fort Wayne Wizards. 

It’s now the Tin Caps, and that team was the Class A (6:28) affiliate for the San Diego Padres, so we spent a lot of time in Fort Wayne, basically every (6:35) all the summers when we had homestands, we were in Fort Wayne. We had a group of investors that had (6:42) been put together to help do the, by the team, and then we were the operating, Andy was the managing(6:50) member, we were the operating entity for the team, and of course, we had people in Fort Wayne that (6:56) were doing day-to-day operations, and then in addition to that, Andy had a consulting arm. (7:02) He was representing companies like Pepsi and Comerica and Blue Cross and handling their sports (7:08) marketing and sports sponsorship deals in Metro Detroit and the region, regionally for Pepsi. 

(7:16) We also had an executive search arm that we were placing executives in the sports industry,(7:23) and then at a certain point, Andy had wanted to do meetings and events and sports-related events, (7:30) and nobody could sort of get it off the ground, so he came to me, and it didn’t make sense for (7:34) the lawyer to do that, but I said, okay, I’ll do it, and we ended up starting an event business, (7:40) and that became pretty successful. We did a lot of big meetings and corporate events (7:47) and started doing things all over the country for, you know, big conferences and employee (7:52) incentive programs and sales meetings, and then one day, a guy came to him and said he wanted to, (8:01) he had an idea for Andy to, because Andy was always very entrepreneurial, to do a synthetic… (8:07) I can tell from all of these different… (8:08) Yeah, to do a synthetic turf business, and so we started that, not realizing we actually were (8:15) going to be in a construction business, and so, you know, one of those things that you learn (8:20) as you go is that the majority of that was installing the fields, not just selling the turf, (8:28) and after that was growing, and we ended up licensing, getting the licensing rights to the (8:38) AstroTurf brand, so the AstroTurf brand and all of the intellectual property was actually… (8:46) AstroTurf had gone through a bankruptcy, and a big manufacturer of carpet and synthetic turf (8:55) purchased those assets out of bankruptcy, and then we ended up partnering with them (9:00) to basically take what we were manufacturing, melded it together with what the intellectual (9:08) property for AstroTurf was, and started using the AstroTurf brand to market across the country, (9:15) so that partnership evolved and developed, and eventually, the company grew to a certain point (9:24) where we were doing fields all across the country, and with that, you need a lot of capital, (9:31) because you have to cash flow large, basically, construction projects. (9:37) And then you’re not paid for, what, 180 days or longer? (9:39) Yeah, while you’re dealing with municipal, like, schools, right, so public schools and (9:47) universities, and then 2008 came, and with the financial crisis, and the bank basically (10:00) not just our bank, a lot of people’s banks… (10:03) Calling notes and… (10:04) Right, we’re like, you know, our credit line was coming up, and basically, we weren’t going to be(10:10) able to renew that credit line, because the bank didn’t have the capital to do it, basically. 

(10:16) Wow. (10:16) And so we started looking around for another source, and that took a while, and we were able to (10:25) keep piecing it along and cash flowing it along, but in the meantime, the manufacturing partner (10:31) came forward and said, you know, we’d kind of like to continue to grow this, and so we ended (10:37) up selling the business to the manufacturing partner, and really, it worked out the best (10:43) for all of us. That was growing so much, and it was taking a lot of my time, because there was (10:50) a lot of legal work involved with that. 

(10:52) I’m sure. Is that still continuing on this day? (10:55) The parent company, it’s new names and all of that, the company that bought it, so obviously… (11:01) The product still stands? (11:02) Products are out there, yes, but it’s evolved over the last, you know, that was 2009… (11:11) Yeah.(11:11) …when we made that, when we sold that business. 

(11:15) In the meantime, we were continuing, we had started at a certain point because of how much (11:22) we loved the magic of minor league baseball in Fort Wayne, and that was really the thing (11:26) that we saw when we had the team in Fort Wayne, is just, it was magic. It was the greatest (11:32) family entertainment experience, and we wanted to do something closer to home.(11:42) So originally, we were trying to see if we could move that team, the team in Fort Wayne,(11:46) here to the Metro Detroit area or someplace close, and there’s just rules for that. 

(11:52) When you have an affiliated team, the major league team, that’s, each major league team has (11:58) a radius from their home plate that, you know, they have the say-so on whether an affiliated (12:04) team can be in that market, and so that wasn’t working out to bring that team here. (12:09) So we ended up selling the team in Fort Wayne and working on doing something in what is called (12:19) independent baseball, which would allow us to do something in Metro Detroit where there’s never (12:23) been minor league baseball before, and a lot of people weren’t sure if that was going to work out, (12:30) and we were pretty confident that it would, based on what we knew about the business that (12:35) had in Fort Wayne. So we worked on that for a long time, but in the meantime, we did a bunch (12:41) of other things. 

We had something called the Sports Executive Leadership Conference, which was (12:47) a conference that we put on at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs every July. We brought all the(12:52) top executives in sports together for a thought leaders conference and, you know, huge name (13:00) speakers that would come in, and then it was a great, obviously, networking event for everybody (13:07) in sports to get to know each other, and, you know, it was like sort of the one time of the year where (13:13) it was relatively quiet for most of the sports. It was right before the NFL starts their (13:22) training camps. 

So you were able to get the crowd that you needed. Yeah, so we were able to do that, (13:26) and of course, in Colorado Springs, we had the USOC for the Olympic, you know, United States (13:32) Olympic Committee out there. So we had a base of some folks that would be there in a great venue. 

(13:39) So that was a lot of fun, and we met so many people. It was great, and then we continued(13:49) to try to get a stadium built, and thought we had something. The stadium here? Yeah, the stadium here (13:57) for a minor league baseball team. 

That I couldn’t believe how long that was in the works. So yeah, it took us (14:02) about 15 years. Andy likes to say it was a 15-year overnight success story. 

So from the time we first (14:09) thought about it, there was a summer where Andy, and myself, and his wife Chris, and a woman that we had (14:19) sent to Fort Wayne to help us run the team at one point, who is now the, I think she’s the President (14:26) or the Executive Director of the US Figure Skating, but she was with for many years with the (14:34) Cavs, with the Cleveland Cavaliers as their Chief Marketing Officer. But at that time, was in Fort (14:40) Wayne. Well, we took a road trip all around the Midwest, and we visited all of these ballparks (14:45) just to get, take notes on everything we liked. 

And were these minor league parks, or were these (14:50) actually independent parks? Has anybody ever done independent? Yes. Okay. It was, some were (14:56) affiliated, and some were independent, and so we just, we did, you know, a road trip for several days, and (15:04) visited all these ballparks, and took pictures of everything we liked, and took notes of the things (15:09) we did and didn’t like, and then we almost had something done at one point, then, you know, (15:18) it didn’t go through, and then publicly, and that one was confidential, and publicly we went (15:24) to the City of Troy after that, and we almost got that done, and we had the votes, and then it flip-flopped (15:29) in the last vote, so it was frustrating because we knew it was going to be a great success. 

Sure. And (15:36) so after that, we kind of said, you know, we’re gonna, maybe we’re gonna focus on a major league team, (15:43) so then we started chasing a major league team, and we pursued an NHL team, almost got that done, (15:52) didn’t get it done, then we went to the UK, and we ended up buying a Premier League English football (15:58) club. That year that we bought it, the club was in the Premier League, was relegated, but we knew that (16:05) was going to happen when we purchased it, so we paid a price that was, but you know, 33,000 seat (16:12) stadium, and the only game in town, you know, a team from the 1800s that is, you know, Derby, in (16:21) Derby, England, it’s, it is the thing that everybody loves, right, so Andy was the chairman of that, (16:29) you know, we were playing our first, I don’t think it was our first match, but maybe two or three(16:36) weeks after we closed on the club, we went over there, and we played Manchester United at home, (16:42) and just really, really cool, wonderful experiences, and we learned a lot, you know, about (16:50) a lot about English football that we didn’t know, a lot about operating sports, and then in the (16:59) got done with the City of Utica to build the stadium in Utica, so these things were all (17:04) happening simultaneously, and so once we got the deal done to build the stadium in Utica, (17:13) I sort of transitioned into, I’m just going to run the Baseball League, because one of the things (17:18) that I knew is that in and of itself was going to be a full-time job, and so we came to an (17:27) agreement with the City of Utica in 2014 on the site, and broke ground in like June of 2015, (17:36) and we, opening day was May 30th, 2016, and we started with three teams, originally, see when (17:45) we first were going to build the stadium here, we were going to have one team in a different (17:48) independent league, and then over time it evolved into, why don’t we have our own league, because (17:55) if we’re going to spend our own money to build a ballpark, we want to have, (17:59) we don’t want to have road trips, we don’t have have weekends in the summer when we don’t have (18:03) home games, and when we were, just have your facility sitting empty, and correct, underutilized, (18:09) and so, you know, when we had the team in Fort Wayne, we were in the Midwest League, which was (18:14) the Lugnuts and West Michigan Whitecaps, and so we were playing those teams, and you’d get five, (18:21) six weekends that were home in the summer, and everyone’s fighting it out over the schedule (18:27) every year to try to get certain weekends in the summer, so we decided that we were going to have, (18:35) like, basically create a bubble where we had multiple teams playing out of the same ballpark, (18:41) and where it would be advantageous to do that from a development standpoint. 

We (18:47) knew that there were a lot of great players who were not getting drafted anymore. Over time, (18:54) the rounds of the draft had shrunk, and so players that used to get drafted weren’t getting drafted (18:59) anymore, so we were very confident that the baseball, that we would be able to find high (19:04) quality players. Sure. 

And the idea was to create a place where guys that weren’t getting drafted (19:12) anymore could go to continue to develop and bring scouts in, and we knew the quality of the (19:19) baseball would be good. We knew the entertainment experience would be great, but what we didn’t know(19:27) is how many players would actually get signed out of our league. We were thinking, you know, (19:31) we would be happy with one or two, and sitting here today, since 2016, and of course we went (19:41) through a COVID summer where nobody got signed because the affiliated teams weren’t even playing, (19:46) to 52 players have been signed out of our league. 

And a couple of them have actually gone to the (19:52) majors, correct? Five. Five have made it all the way to playing in the majors, so (19:59) it’s pretty cool, and I think more than anything, the first couple people that were signed, (20:05) our first year, we had 15 players get signed. So the whole, a lot of people thought these were (20:12) going to be weekend warriors, and what is that, didn’t understand, didn’t understand minor league (20:18) baseball very well because we didn’t have it here. 

And so that first year, before we had the ballpark (20:24) built, our sales team, it was a 15 minute lead into trying to sell anything, trying to explain (20:30) what this was. Explain what your product is. Right. 

And so after we got, after that first year, (20:37) the sales process became a lot easier for our sales team because the legitimacy was created (20:42) that yes, this is an independent league, like there are numerous other independent leagues, (20:47) not exactly like ours, not a bubble where there’s four teams playing. But, you know, this is where (20:54) scouts are going to find those players that, quite frankly, they wanted to draft, but they couldn’t (20:59) because they only had so many draft picks. Right. 

So a lot of times scouts are still following those (21:04) players. And so we put together the first year, three teams. And what we had to do that was (21:13) different than Fort Wayne is see when you own an affiliated minor league team, you don’t have to (21:18) do the baseball part because the major league team handles all of the baseball part. 

All the players (21:23) come from the major league team, the coaches. You basically, you feed the players, you get their (21:30) buses scheduled for their road trips, things like that. But you don’t do the baseball part. 

You don’t (21:36) manage the ballpark. Right. Right. 

You do sales and marketing, basically. (21:42) And so what happened was now we have to put together a baseball operations department (21:47) because now we’ve got to find, put together coaching staff and find players and recruit (21:52) players and sign players and put together a player contract and have trainers and team doctors and all (21:58) sorts of things that we never had to do before. And of course, the dog. 

You had to get the dog. (22:02) Well, that dog came later. But it was part of the plan. 

It evolved, right? So basically we start (22:09) with three teams. We come out of the gate. We have a great 2016 season. 

And then based on fan (22:17) feedback, we add a fourth team in 2017. And our plan always has been to add another ballpark or (22:26) ballparks. And then we would add more teams and possibly move one of these teams to another (22:32) ballpark, depending on the location. 

The teams would then play, your bubble would just get a (22:37) little bit bigger then. Is that correct? Yeah. I mean, it would be, we would try to limit the (22:42) travel as much as possible, but they would still be playing each other. 

And also depending on the (22:47) location, because we started off just primarily thinking about sites in Michigan, but now we’re (22:53) looking at sites all over the country. Okay. So, you know, I don’t know. 

And we’ve had… (22:57) Logistics will play into that, however. Right. We’ve had some situations where we could have (23:01) done something and it just, the location has to be right for us too. 

You know, there are places (23:06) around the country where they’re building ballparks and they’re looking for teams to come. (23:10) And there’ve been scenarios where we’re just not sure that that’s the right fit, that there’s going (23:16) to be enough population there, businesses there to support our model. Right. 

So, (23:24) we’re still actively working on that and it is a huge goal of ours to get the next ballpark done. (23:32) And I think we’ll do it because it took us 15 years to do the last one. Based on the accomplishments (23:37) you’ve had thus far, I think if you’re setting your mind to it, you’re going to do it. 

I don’t (23:40) think there’s any issue there. Am I correct? You two are a force to be reckoned with. When you (23:46) want to have something done, you’re going to get it done. 

Yeah. So, we’re working hard on it. So, (23:49) that’s a big goal. 

And then, yes, the bat dog came later. There was a guy that used to travel (23:58) minor… He still travels minor league baseball with his act called Jake the Diamond Dog. And we (24:02) would have him in Fort Wayne every year. 

And he brings his dog and he’s had several Jakes (24:09) throughout the 30 years he’s been doing that. And he came the first year with his act to the (24:17) ballpark in Utica to Jimmy John’s Field. And Andy asked him, what do you think about helping us find (24:24) our own dog? You train it, we’ll pay to find it, train it, and then we’ll have our own dog. 

(24:30) And so, he agrees to do that. Meanwhile, I’m saying to Andy, okay, who’s the dog going to(24:36) live with? We can’t just get a dog. You know, I mean, you did ask to live with somebody. 

(24:40) So, we are having this ongoing discussion back and forth about this. And eventually,(24:46) the dog lived with me. So, in 2018, yeah, right before the start of the season, we got JJ. 

The (24:54) of course. And he has been picking up the bats and taking water of the umpire since 2018. (25:03) And so, he’s seven now. 

And he knows his routine very well now. But I will tell you, the first (25:09) season, there were many games where he got the bat, but he didn’t bring it back. He ran around (25:15) the field with it. 

And the fans still, to this day, they loved it when JJ was being a little (25:22) naughty and not bringing the bat back. But he’s… You’re officially his mom, correct? (25:27) I’m his mom. Yeah. 

He’s the star of the show at the games. And I know you’ve been there. You’ve (25:31) seen him. 

So, he’s definitely… I’ve seen him not just in doing his thing on the field, but also (25:37) work in the office as well. Yes. He goes to work every day. 

So, I actually just had to take him (25:43) home right when I came here because, you know, I guess I could have brought him. You totally (25:46) could have. So, let me back up a little bit. 

Some questions that are popping up for me are, (25:53) you know, when Andy started this whole thing and then got you to come on board, (25:59) you know, there was a vision there, right? But that vision has… The vision was what? It was (26:04) the vision, I want to be in sports. I don’t know what it is. And then maybe you can answer that (26:10) question. 

And then secondly, how have you stayed on track there to kind of be there on every one (26:18) of these endeavors? You know, how has that suited you to go, okay, this open-ended vision, but(26:27) there’s some consistency to it. There’s obviously some consistency. This is not willy-nilly(26:32) sort of behavior that we’re seeing here. 

Well, I think one of the things that… First, (26:38) I thought I wanted to work in sports, but what I really kind of fell in love with was (26:42) the entrepreneurial nature of what we’re doing. We’ve done a lot of things that haven’t worked (26:49) either. You know, I mean, you do things and sometimes it doesn’t work or sometimes you (26:54) realize you’re in a construction business and you didn’t really want to be in that, right? And so, (26:58) but you got to keep going. 

And then eventually something worked out where we were able to (27:04) transition out of that and go back to what we were really good at and what we wanted to be doing, (27:09) which was more on the team sport side. Andy also still has, he has an agency separate from the (27:16) league that he kind of took a lot of what we were doing under the general sports and entertainment (27:21) umbrella that I was involved with him originally. And that’s being run through something called (27:27) General Sports Worldwide now because the league takes up all of my time. 

And I basically, (27:34) you know, that was what I wanted was I need to focus on this league because I thought it was (27:39) the best idea he ever had and that we ever had. And I knew it would be, I knew it would be (27:45) successful and it has been. So, but you know, the entrepreneurial aspect of what we did was (27:53) the fun part is taking something, creating something from nothing and watching it become (28:00) something, you know, four teams created out of thin air that now you see people walking around (28:06) wearing the jerseys and the hats. 

That’s pretty cool. Yeah, you’ve created something. Now, do you (28:10) enjoy this operator or EOS, right? We’d call this the integrator role versus the visionary role at (28:17) this point, you know, where you’re running this organization. 

Are you missing the entrepreneurial (28:22) pieces of it or are you still able to exercise enough of that internally? I don’t miss it (28:28) because we literally, we have 70 games and we have 70 different promotions. So we basically (28:34) are creating a mini, you know, little business in each one. And we also, we’re going to be (28:42) building a new headquarters building right now. 

We’re working, we should be breaking ground later (28:47) this year and we’re going to have a couple new businesses that are part of that. Great. A couple (28:51) of retail. 

Can you share where that, where that location is? Right across the river from the ballpark in(28:56) Utica. Oh great. So yeah, so it’ll be, you know, now we’re, right now we’re in Rochester and we drive (29:02) back and forth to the ballpark. 

We don’t have offices there. So we’ll be right there next to (29:08) the ballpark. We’ll have a corporate meeting and event space. 

So that’s something where kind of (29:13) going back to what we used to do, we’ll be able to have meeting space for people to do corporate (29:19) meetings as well as some retail space. We’re going to have a restaurant called JJ’s Dog House, (29:25) which is going to be kind of like La Puma’s in Rochester. But you know, we’ve got a really cool (29:31) logo that’s JJ’s face. 

And we’re going to have a retail store there that we don’t have right now, (29:37) as well as our offices. And we’re going to have some office space for a third party tenant as well. (29:45) And so that’s something new. 

Plus, we’re trying to get this next ballpark built. So those things (29:51) are always going on. So I don’t really miss the entrepreneurial aspect. 

I think the biggest (29:58) thing that goes through your mind is a couple times we’ve been close to getting the next (30:03) ballpark done, is okay, when that happens, how do you then get your organization, grow your (30:10) organization to where I can oversee all of it. This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by (30:16) Auxion, business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, (30:22) automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform, the world’s first AI-driven (30:27) wired and wireless network. 

Have you had, have you had any business coaching or peer to peer (30:33) sort of influence on your staying with all of this and staying on top of it? I mean, (30:41) I know you mentioned that you’ve conversed back with your lawyer friends for certain advice, (30:46) but where do you seek out advice from, you know, either peers or coaching or anything like that? (30:52) Or do you? Just, no, not really just Andy and I talking to each other, (30:58) you know, and talking to, and other members of our team that we have with us. You know, we have, (31:07) we have a consultant that is now working with us to get the next ballpark built, (31:11) but it’s still ultimately going to be our decision about even if we have the, somebody that, (31:18) a scenario that where they want us, like we’ve had in certain situations, is it (31:23) good for us? Is it the right location for us that we can be successful? We don’t want to (31:29) go into something that we can’t be successful. Sure. 

Right. Sure. So yeah, I mean, I think, (31:35) you know, you, you, you get people’s opinions that are experts in the specific industries, (31:41) like if you’re not an expert in it. 

And so yes, there are people here and there, (31:46) there are real estate people that we’ll work with that are experts or outside counsel on (31:52) certain legal aspects, things like that. The baseball piece of it and the sports piece of it, (31:59) probably we are the experts, right? So we, I feel like, you know, from that perspective, (32:06) not that we know everything, because we’ve certainly made probably every mistake 10 times (32:11) over. Right. 

That’s what makes you so qualified, but hopefully we’ve learned from them. Right. (32:16) Let me ask you this, the, the culture around the organization. 

So obviously you have a variety of (32:23) different staff, right? You have a restaurant, restaurant and bar food facilities. You have the (32:29) baseball operations, you have the people working and selling concessions. I mean, all of these (32:35) different roles, plus your own office staff, what would you say are the overarching culture (32:40) of the organization is? So, well, from our, so we have about 25 to 30 year round full-time (32:49) front office staff. 

Okay. And somebody said this to me from our staff one time that, you know, (32:57) you know how many unicorns you have here and we do. It’s people that love sports and wanted to (33:06) work in sports. 

And I think what you find is they’re all super hard workers and it’s not, (33:15) I don’t have to push them to work hard. They just get it. They just, you know, they understand what (33:22) it’s like to work in sports. 

This is what they’ve always wanted to do. And they’re used to working (33:28) long hours and working hard and just working until the job gets done. So it’s very rare with, (33:34) especially with the team I have right now, that I am having to chase anybody or follow up with (33:42) anybody to say, you know, why didn’t this get done or that get done? I mean, if there are times where (33:48) that doesn’t happen, it’s mainly just because there’s so much work, but not because somebody(33:53) wasn’t working hard, right? Sure. 

Would you say you have the eight players of the unicorn team? (33:58) I would say so. I mean, and, and believe me, there’s been plenty of people where it didn’t (34:06) work out because, and it wasn’t that they weren’t great people or they weren’t smart or talented, (34:11) but it’s not for everybody, right? It’s very high pressure. I mean, (34:15) you’re putting on a show every time you’re, you’ve got the ballpark open, (34:19) you’re putting on a show that needs to run pretty much flawlessly, right? (34:23) Well, and it’s long hours and we, you know, our staff, we were in the office at 9am, (34:30) we’re on conference calls at nine and then on game days we’re working until 11 and then wake up the (34:38) next day and do that again and wake up the next day and do that again and wake up the next day and (34:42) do that again. 

Right. So it’s, so part of the thing with our schedule, not having those road trips (34:48) is we don’t have that break. And so we did realize that after we got started is that this is a bit (34:54) harder than the structure that we had when we had the team in Fort Wayne, because you might have a (35:00) 10 game homestand, but then have 10 days where the team’s on the road. 

And we don’t, you know, (35:06) we have Thursday to Sunday, Thursday to Sunday, Thursday to Sunday. So, and when our staff usually (35:14) is off on Mondays because we work all weekend, but, but nobody’s really off because on Monday is (35:20) when everybody else that still wants to come is calling us. Right. 

So the first year we tried to, (35:27) to have everybody, we tried to not have everybody come in until like one o’clock on a Tuesday. And (35:34) it was, nobody could catch up. You couldn’t catch up to the sales, you know, because you had, now (35:39) you had like 50 voicemails that were piled up that you didn’t get to. 

Is this because people (35:45) are driving by and they see the activity and then that makes them want to call or what? (35:49) No, it’s just Monday for them is the start of the week. They’re back to work. And so it’s time to (35:53) follow up. 

Right. Yeah. So it’s, so it’s one of those things where in, once our season starts and (36:01) really are, we start getting really, really, really busy in April because we’re, we’re in (36:10) addition to those 25 to 30 full-time year round, now we’re bringing in like around 400 seasonal (36:15) staff. 

So four teams of players and coaches and all your concession staff, your, you know, (36:22) your grounds crew, your warehouse, your food and beverage staff that we all, we perform all of this(36:27) in house. You’re parking a lot of tenants, your ushers, your ticket takers, all of that, (36:33) your box office staff. You know, so you’re bringing, you’re hiring all those people and (36:39) you’ll get, we get, maybe I would say 50% from year to year that will be returners. 

(36:44) But then you’re always going to have people that either they age, they get older and they can’t (36:49) do it anymore. You know, it’s a lot for even for like our ushers in the summer or their high school (36:55) kids. And now they’ve aged out because they’re off to college and they’re not coming back in (36:59) the summers or they were college students and now they graduated. 

So you get that kind of turnover (37:06) from year to year, but you still have, you’ll always have like a group from the prior year (37:10) that is coming back. And of course we have some people that have been with us since we opened in (37:14) 2016. So, you know, and, and we train that staff on we follow Disney’s training for our guest (37:23) service training. 

And that’s a huge part of what we do is we want to have the cleanest, safest, (37:30) friendliest ballpark in America. And with our, we say no napkin on the ground for more than five (37:36) seconds. And I remember hearing that from your, we had seen you recently at a women empowered (37:44) event that you were, that you were speaking on and you had said that no napkin on the ground for (37:49) more than five seconds and lead by example, meaning you pick up those napkins all the time. 

(37:54) Absolutely. I’m picking up everything around the ballpark. So, I mean, Andy and I see everything, (37:59) you know, and, and you just, sometimes when you’re there and especially with young staff, (38:05) you don’t notice everything around you, but I think he and I are looking at it from how is the (38:12) public going to see this and we see everything. 

Of course. And so we just, we do our very best. (38:18) It’s outside. 

So that’s another part of this is that no matter what we do there, (38:23) it’s going to be dirty again the next day, right? Because it’s almost all outside. (38:27) And so the dirt from the field and, you know, everything has to be wiped before every game (38:32) and every event, just because it’s going to get dusty. And it’s, you know, that’s just what, (38:37) what it is. 

So you just get used to the fact that, that everything here has to be cleaned (38:42) every single time we open up this ballpark. So, but it’s, I think it’s a fun place to work for (38:48) people though. And it’s a happy place. 

It seems like it, you know, I mean, (38:52) from outside looking in, you know, I mean, I’ve been a guest on a, on a kind of a variety of (38:57) levels, right. From just going to games, but also we’ve hosted some events with you with, (39:04) with one of the schools that I’m affiliated with. And you’ve even converted the baseball field into (39:11) a football field for, for some of those. 

So it’s very apparent the work that you guys are putting (39:17) into this. Yeah. It’s, you know, we’re going to have a concert, but it’s one of these fever (39:25) concerts in the fall. 

I think it’s going to be with, you know, the, they play the strings with (39:30) all the candles around it. And that’ll be the first time we do something like that. So that’s (39:33) cool. 

We’re always trying to do new things. Some things are, you know, more difficult than others(39:40) to make happen. The football game was really fun. 

We had, we did a football game that you’re (39:47) talking about last fall. We’re doing it again this fall. We had done one other, our very first year, (39:53) Oakland’s club football team played Ohio State’s club football team on the same day as our craft (39:59) beer festival. 

And so we knew we could do it, but we hadn’t done one since then. And so, yeah, (40:07) it’s fun to do new things. And I think our team is always up for it of, of trying to do something (40:13) unique and cool. 

And I think that that live event experience is something that everybody on our (40:18) team enjoys. The other thing I really like is we get to work from our seasonal staff perspective. (40:25) We have 15 year olds up to people in their eighties, and it’s a mixture and people (40:34) today, I think things, these, these groups don’t mix. 

But I see it. I see them mix all the time. (40:41) And I think both sides can learn something from each other for sure. 

And we have a lot of kids, (40:48) this is their first job and we have to teach them how to, how to work, how to show up for work on (40:56) time and take responsibility for it because we’re talking to you, not your mom and dad. (41:03) And, um, you know, so I think from that perspective, it’s really fun to watch (41:08) those. So many of these kids are such good kids and they grow their confidence level from the (41:14) time they start to if they’re once we’re a month into the season, like right now, (41:18) the people that just, that started, they’re just different humans by the end of the season, (41:24) even a month in, but yes, for sure. 

By the end of the season. And they usually want to come back (41:29) because it’s someplace that they feel good. Do you have any stories of someone starting off as (41:34) an intern and staying on and being part of your permanent staff or starting off in, (41:39) you know, one role and then kind of moving around and climbing around the organization? (41:43) Lots. 

Um, I would say at least half of our staff interned with us. That’s the first place we’ll go (41:52) to, to hire people is from people that interned with us when we’re looking to hire new staff, (41:59) who were the interns that were good in the past. Um, my former assistant, both of my assistants,(42:05) my one that I, I had one, uh, before the current one were interns for me in the past. 

Uh, most of (42:12) our sales team all had done internships with us. Um, you know, the, one of the guys that heads up (42:20) corporate marketing or corporate partnerships with our sponsors. So we have a lot of people (42:25) that have interned for us, some of our operations staff. 

So that’s the best place to find people (42:32) because they’ve been through a summer of baseball. And I tell our interns, we have about a hundred (42:37) interns every summer and every department is in charge of their own interns, but I’ll have a (42:42) meeting with all of them at the start of the season, even the ones that aren’t assigned to me. (42:47) And I’ll tell them, you’re going to find out whether you want to work in sports or live (42:51) events or entertainment, because it’s not for everybody. 

It’s different hours. And sometimes (42:57) you have to work holidays. You have to work weekends in baseball. 

You give up your summer (43:01) and some of you are going to say, this isn’t for me. And that’s okay. That’s part of the learning (43:07) process here is to learn whether this is something that you really enjoy doing and want to have for a (43:16) exactly what I want to do. 

And we can tell who those people are and it’s a grind, (43:23) but we can see the people that stay with positive energy throughout the summer, even when they’re (43:28) tired. And those are the people that we go back to when we’re trying to hire people to join our (43:34) staff. It’s interesting how everyone’s wired differently and different things energize them. 

(43:38) Obviously we can tell from you and you’re completely lit up whenever you’re talking (43:43) about what you do. So you may be tired, but you are always energized by what it is that (43:49) you’re doing, would you say? Absolutely. Absolutely. 

And even if you are tired, (43:55) once you get over there and there’s a game going on, you’re not, you’re not during that time. (43:59) So there are so many fun parts about what we do and I get to make people happy for a living. (44:07) And so that’s why I say who gets to do that? Not a lot of people. 

So even on your worst day, (44:14) where you’re tired or maybe things didn’t go right, you’re going to have probably 10 things (44:19) that were really fun and cool that happened during your day that are exciting, or you made somebody (44:23) happy, or you, we get thousands of unsolicited emails of about from people about what a great (44:29) time they had and the memories they made with their families. And so that makes it all worth it. (44:34) And it’s why we do what we do. 

That’s great. Not to mention when the players get signed and how (44:40) exciting that is. It’s got to feel great. 

Yeah. It’s really cool. And we follow all of those guys (44:45) when they’re, you know, as they’re making their progress through the affiliated system and when (44:51) they get their call-ups, you know, we’ll put it on the big board or we’ll put it on in the, (44:56) on the TVs in the ballpark. 

So everybody can watch their first inning in the majors and, (45:02) and nobody’s more excited than us. Sure. Sure. 

Yeah. You’re a part of that. Yeah. 

(45:07) So on the technology front, I mean, the, the baseball business is a lot more technologically(45:13) rich than probably what most people realize, whether that’s from tickets to cameras, to boards, (45:20) to whatever. Can you give us a little under the cover look of, of some of the cool technology (45:27) that you guys are using? And then also, can you talk about anything that, that is maybe kind of (45:31) future oriented in your, in your world and the technology front? Yep. So obviously just operating (45:39) the ballpark in and of itself, we have lots of different technologies that we’re using from (45:44) ticketing technologies to, you know, how we’re transacting sales and business. 

But some of the (45:52) things on the baseball side, so we use a technology called TrackMan, and that allows us to capture (46:01) all sorts of data on our players. Things that you’re probably used to seeing from watching (46:07) major league games, like the spin rates and very accurate velocity. So the VLO, and we now, (46:14) that’s going to our scoreboard, you know, carry distance and exit velocities. 

And so basically we (46:23) have a camera system that’s set up at the ballpark, but this is all just feeding to an iPad. (46:27) And we’re capturing all of that data because we, the baseball operations interns that we have, (46:35) part of their job is to put together basically analytics on all of the players. And then we use (46:41) that to market the players to the MLB team. 

So there’s a lot of teams that aren’t sending (46:46) in-person scouts anymore. There are teams that, that do. We had a Yankee scout there (46:52) all weekend last weekend. 

But those marketing, like sometimes a team will call you, (46:59) they have an opening or an injury happened in their affiliated minor league system, (47:04) and they need to fill a spot. And they’re looking for an arm. They’re looking for something to fill (47:09) a spot. 

And so we’ll put together a package of, here’s something on four players that have been (47:16) performing well, and we’ll send their data out. And then sometimes a player will get signed just(47:21) off that. And then another thing that’s brand new is something called DVS x-ray. 

So we use a (47:32) proprietary throwing system called delivery value system that was developed by a guy that used to (47:39) head up our baseball operations named Justin Orndorff. And Justin was a Dodgers number one (47:46) draft pick the same year that Justin Verlander was picked by the Tigers. He was the Dodgers (47:50) number one pick. 

And he ended up blowing his arm out and tried to come back and he never could. And (47:57) at that time, I think the surgeries weren’t as successful as they are with repair. And so he (48:04) was really, he went through a lot of going from here to here and trying to figure out why did (48:10) this happen to me? Sure. 

So he ended up developing over time, this system called delivery value (48:15) system. And one of the things that it does is it does predict injury risk, but it really (48:24) does an assessment of how the pitcher is using their body, their throwing motion and their (48:31) mechanics, their core, their legs, everything and where the stress is happening to certain parts of (48:39) their arm, their elbow, their shoulder. And so we’re actually changing the mechanics of all the (48:45) pitchers that pitch in our league follow this delivery value system. 

So we’re working with (48:50) them to change their mechanics to make them less injury prone. And also using different parts of (48:56) their body. Most of them, their velocity goes up. 

So you know, anywhere from two to four miles an (49:04) hour is what we usually will see over time. And so we’ve had a lot of success with it. And the new (49:12) thing with DVS is now there’s a technology that’s called DVS X-ray. 

And the X-ray system is, (49:21) we used to do this by using a camera and we would have our team that was experienced with DVS has (49:28) to score it manually by looking at the video. Well, now with DVS X-ray, it’s all captured by the (49:35) cameras and the score happens automatically. So you get a score that tells you, you know, how your (49:41) mechanics are and where we need to make improvements. 

So that’s really cutting edge technology. (49:49) Literally, we just got the cameras calibrated to it was working on pitchers that were not throwing as (49:54) hard as our pitchers. So going through spring training this year, we had to upgrade everything (50:00) to be able to go from any, from little league kids all the way up to somebody throwing 95 miles an (50:06) hour. 

So that’s a really cool technology. We actually invested in delivery value system, the (50:13) league did. So we have an ownership stake in this technology. 

And so I think that’s probably one of (50:20) the most cutting edge things we’re doing and we’re known. We’ve had position players and pitchers (50:27) signed, but the vast majority have been pitchers. So we’re really known around baseball as a league (50:34) to maybe look for arms because we’ve had lots of success with pitchers. 

Great. And investing in (50:42) that technology on top of it all is, I mean, what a great other value stream for you and also for the (50:48) players. I mean, a player who has the choice to come to another independent league or to come to (50:52) your league, if they’ve got the technology behind it with you guys, obviously it makes it more (50:58) compelling to come your way. 

Well, that’s our argument, you know, is two players is that we, (51:05) unlike other leagues where you’ve got, you know, 12 teams and 12 different owners and everybody (51:10) has their own philosophy, our coaching staff, even though they’re coaching, like you might be (51:16) managing a different team, you know, there’s four different managers and four different coaching (51:21) staffs. They’re all under contract to the league and we follow one philosophy. So all of the pitchers(51:28) follow DVS with throwing. 

All of the hitters follow the same hitting instruction. So there’s (51:34) consistency throughout the league and what we’re trying to do, which you don’t get with other (51:40) independent leagues. So I do think it’s a big advantage and I do think there’s a huge value to (51:45) it. 

Now there’s still sometimes a disconnect from guys are doing sometimes really well with the USPBL (51:55) following DVS and they get signed and then they might go to an affiliated team where the pitching (52:00) coach doesn’t believe in that and tries to change their mechanics. And you battle, you’re going to (52:06) battle that all the time. The more we can get DVS and the DVS x-ray system to become more and more (52:14) mainstream, we’re hoping that happens less because one of the big things is, you know, all of the (52:19) Tommy John surgeries and the injury risk, we really believe that this dramatically helps to reduce that (52:26) injury risk by changing the mechanics and having less stress put on the shoulder and the elbow. 

(52:32) That’s fantastic. Well, I mean, I think we have covered pretty much all of the BLTNT here.(52:37) The transformation piece obviously has been an undercurrent from your whole career,(52:43) from changing from where you live to what you did for a living to coming here and all the(52:49) different things that you’ve done with Andy have been just phenomenal. 

And then all of the (52:54) different risks that you’ve attempted together in different business ventures and feasts and (52:59) failures and whatnot really just ring true here. So what questions might you have for me or (53:06) what else might you like to share? Well, one thing that I did want to share, we didn’t talk about (53:12) this, but I did talk about it at the event that you saw me speak at was the risk of somebody in (53:19) the crowd asked me, you know, about risks. And when I left Chicago, I, you know, I took a huge pay cut, (53:30) you know, to come and work in sports. 

And one of the things that I talked about is try to find (53:36) something that you love to do. And that, you know, I knew that just becoming a partner in a (53:42) law firm and making that money was not going to make me happy. It wasn’t, I didn’t love doing it. 

(53:48) And so I was willing to make less money to do something that I was happy doing, and that I(53:55) really wanted to spend my life doing. And so I think that, you know, then that doesn’t make the (54:01) risk such, I mean, was I really taking that bigger risk? If it didn’t work out, I could always go (54:05) back to fall back. I already spent my time, paid my penance, going to law school and going through (54:12) that to be able to take this chance. 

Sure. And I knew I could go back to a law firm if I really (54:19) wanted to, but I didn’t want to do it. And so the risk was, if this doesn’t work out, I’m going to (54:23) be really disappointed because I know I want to work in sports. 

Sure. Right. So I think you’d have (54:28) been more disappointed had you not taken the risk and not, not tried what it was that you felt your (54:33) passion was. 

Right. I mean, I guess, you know, from, from your perspective, you know, what kind of risks (54:41) do you feel like you’ve taken with your business? Every day waking up feels like I’m taking some(54:47) sort of risk. I mean, we’re managing the cybersecurity for 150 different sites. 

So (54:53) right there, just waking up in the morning, we’re already accepting quite a, quite a level of risk. (54:59) Also just, you know, how we’ve decided to purposefully build the business and make it so (55:04) that the, the, the vision of our business is to build something that, that outlives the founders. (55:09) Okay. 

And so it’s a destination company for both employees and for clients. And so my job’s not (55:16) done until, until that’s done, until we really are firmly sitting there. So I know that I have to (55:21) build something bigger than myself and I can’t do that by myself. 

I have to do it with the team. (55:24) And you know, so there’s some inherent risk there, but I don’t think I would feel like I was (55:31) doing the right thing in the world if I wasn’t out there taking some risks. Well, I think it’s clear (55:37) that you’ve built a great business here and I think it’s fantastic that you do the podcast and, (55:43) you know, try to share experiences from other industries and what are, how are people using (55:50) technology in their businesses? Because it has transformed our business and there’s a lot of (55:57) things we didn’t even talk about from like what we started doing marketing wise to like, you know, (56:04) you know, we used to not, text messaging marketing was not a thing when we started this league, (56:09) you know, things that we’re doing today that we, to try to reach people because everything’s so (56:14) segmented now. 

Sure. But maybe for another day. Maybe for another day. 

But yeah, I mean, I hope (56:20) that this is valuable to you that we’ve, that we’ve done this together and I hope it’s valuable (56:24) to everyone watching who’s getting a chance to know you, you know, at the level that I get to (56:29) know you at. Oh, it’s been my pleasure. Okay. 

Likewise. Thanks, Dana.