(0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen. 

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in. 

Hello and welcome to our latest edition of the BLTNT (0:43) podcast. I’m really excited to be here with Fred Sievert, who is an author, speaker, father, (0:52) all-around great guy with an amazing history of transitions and a life well lived fully with (1:02) just great inspiration for the people that have worked for him and for his family. And so (1:10) can’t wait to dig in with you here, Fred, and thank you for being here. 

(1:14) Thank you. It’s my pleasure to be there. I’ll have to play this back. 

So my wife, (1:18) here’s what you just said. Yes, and a stud on top of it all. Just a great (1:24) looking guy that she should be very happy to have. 

(1:29) Thank you. So, Fred, I mentioned you’re full of transitions. You and I met recently at what’s(1:41) called a CBRT meeting. 

You were a speaker at one of the main events, and then you came to one of (1:47) our smaller group events. And you’ve gone from a teacher to an actuary to the president of New (1:57) York Life Insurance Company to author, speaker, et cetera. I mean, you’ve just done some amazing(2:05) stuff. 

Yeah, it’s been a very, I call it an uncommon and unusual spiritual and career journey. (2:15) Lots of transitions along the way, often guided by guidance from the Holy Spirit and feeling called (2:25) to do something different, even though everything you mentioned and I’ve done, I enjoyed immensely. (2:31) But the time to change came and I made the changes. 

That’s great. That’s great. You know, (2:37) when we were talking and kind of preparing to get together to do this, I said, Fred, you know, (2:42) the thing that I admire most about you is, is that you worked in an environment, (2:50) you know, a Fortune 100 company headquartered in Manhattan, where you were able to figure out how (2:59) to dance the line, let’s say, between your faith and your integrity, along with being a leader (3:09) that was available to all the people that work for you. 

And so that’s always not, (3:16) that’s never an easy thing, right? Because you’re going to have and come across people who are, (3:22) who are different than you, whether it’s in your faith, or whether it’s just in your (3:26) overall beliefs and integrity. And somehow you did it, right? Can you help us understand (3:35) a little bit about what what made that possible? (3:41) Yes. It was particularly challenging because New York Life, which had offices in 12 countries, (3:53) many of them Asian countries, but also had a huge presence in New York, had employees and agents(4:01) of all faiths. 

I mean, there were atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians of (4:11) all denominations. And that made it challenging, because, you know, I couldn’t really express my (4:19) faith without people knowing, certainly, that I’m a Christian. So a couple of things that enabled (4:27) that. 

One is, I prayed very often at work. In my books, I say, sometimes 10 to 15 times a day, (4:38) where I felt, you know, I’m not smart enough to make these decisions. I’m not sure exactly (4:45) how to express myself. 

I’m not sure how far to go with my faith and expressing it. (4:53) So I was relying on the Holy Spirit to guide me in that way. What should I say? How should I proceed? (5:03) Even in the case of very, very difficult business decisions, you know, I would often say a short (5:12) prayer. 

And I will also add that I wasn’t praying out loud in front of my staff. You know, I felt (5:20) that was going a little too far, even though every one of them knew I was a Christian. (5:26) I mean, there would be luncheon events and other things where somebody would ask me (5:30) to pray at the beginning, you know, say grace over the meal, and I was happy to do that. 

But I wasn’t (5:38) that overt. However, everyone knew I was a strong Christian. A couple of surprising things about that (5:47) is, one, the Jews at New York Life, and there were a lot of Jewish folks at New York Life, (5:58) they would actually come up to me when I’d speak to a big audience. 

And oftentimes that was an (6:05) audience of 5,000 agents and employees, where I would express my faith. I would tell a story (6:13) about something that happened to me, and I felt it was providential, not just coincidental. (6:21) And often the Jews would come up to me and say, we really appreciate someone who’s willing at a (6:29) high corporate level, who’s willing to express his faith. 

So that encouraged me. That made me (6:37) feel like, you know, I can continue to do this. Another thing, one time I did an interview with a (6:43) guy who was a Catholic priest in Michigan, actually. 

I think his headquarters is in (6:53) Michigan. He’s a Catholic priest, and he was in charge of (7:03) spiritual ministry to people who were in trouble, or who had serious issues, addiction, whatever,(7:13) or just family problems. And he said he often, he’d be on the phone with somebody who might even (7:20) be suicidal, and he’d say a short prayer, really short. 

He’d say, Lord, I can’t, you can, please do. (7:33) So I found myself often saying that little prayer to God, but silently, (7:41) you know, I can’t, you can, please do. And I really had this confidence(7:45) that the guiding, the Holy Spirit was going to guide me on how to deal with difficult situations (7:52) or difficult business decisions. 

So, you know, I would express these things. I mean, you have to (7:59) have a certain level of courage. And it wasn’t just when I was president of the company where, (8:05) you know, I had a higher level of authority, and it sort of enhanced my testimony. 

It was kind of (8:11) all the way up through the organization. I mean, people knew they could trust me that, (8:16) you know, I had a strong value system and a strong faith. And I never really had a serious (8:26) issue with that. 

I never even had an atheist or an agnostic challenge me over what I was doing. (8:32) Well, I think you just, you nailed the word, right, which is trust. And so what I was, (8:37) what’s been going through my head as you’ve been speaking is that there must have been something (8:42) that kept the trust of the people, because if you were exhibiting these, you know, your thoughts and (8:50) faith and whatnot throughout your career, as you climbed through the ranks at New York Life,(8:56) that obviously people still respected you, which means they trusted you, which means you were (9:02) somehow keeping things safe in terms of the judgment, you were not casting a judgment on (9:08) these folks that were, you know, if somebody was different than you, or anything like that. 

(9:13) And so I think that’s the, I think that had to be an undercurrent of, you know, what you were(9:18) all about. So can you talk about trust for a second? I know that there’s, I can’t remember(9:23) who the, Rachel something does, there’s a video out there about that she speaks about trust, (9:31) and how it is the number one aspect of every relationship, you know, business and personal, (9:39) you know, how you leverage trust through your career? (9:45) Yeah. Well, there’s a lot of ways to do that. 

And my latest book, Fast Starting a Career (9:53) Consequence, has some, several of the chapters deal with this issue directly or indirectly. (10:01) And I think it’s, you know, demonstrating a commitment to the company, (10:07) you know, doing, getting to work early, staying late, meeting all the objectives that all the (10:15) projects you’re expected to do on time and under budget, being respectful of other people. (10:22) One of the chapters I talk a lot about avoiding arrogance, because I think arrogance, (10:30) or even just perceived arrogance is one of the biggest career blockers. 

And I have actually (10:37) coached three or four executives on how to avoid arrogance. And it’s actually in one of my chapters (10:46) in the book. And I just set up, by the way, a new website. 

It’s just an enhancement to my old (10:54) website. And it’s really, it’s at fredsievert.com. And I’m putting up a blog every week. And it just (11:03) started like two weeks ago. 

So one of those blogs is avoiding arrogance, how to avoid arrogance. (11:10) So if someone went on my website, fredsievert.com, and go to the blog page, there’s a blog on avoiding (11:16) arrogance. And I think that’s really critical, because I think your ability to advance in a (11:22) company is much damaged by perception, even just perception. 

And I say perception, because some (11:31) people, just the way they carry their body, just the way they talk, and their demeanor can communicate (11:38) arrogance. And one of the ways, one of the key ways is just simply treating people with respect (11:47) at all levels in the organization. I really made a conscious effort to treat the cleaning people (11:58) and the other low-level workers doing various menial tasks in a big company, (12:07) treat them like they’re human beings, and they need to be treated like everybody else. 

(12:12) And I’d often ask questions of people about their families and their kids. (12:20) And that kind of thing really engenders a level of trust. But in terms of the business, (12:30) getting things done, getting it done under budget, on time, helping other people, that’s another one (12:36) of my chapters. 

And it was in my first book, where I said to my, no, it was actually in the third book, (12:45) which the genesis of the third book was a bunch of, my daughter had come to me who was out of (12:50) college, and she was in a low-level job. And she said, Dad, how can I get noticed at this company(12:56) and build a career? And she says, I’m really tired of this, you know, fulfilling marketing orders and (13:04) not getting noticed. And so I thought long and hard about what kinds of things I would notice (13:12) as president of New York Life with 65,000 agents and employees, how I might notice someone (13:20) deep down in the organization. 

And so I gave her five tips. And those five tips, (13:28) she implemented them very well. She actually got several promotions in the next four or five years, (13:36) and this was a big global cosmetic company. 

Fred, do you mind if Jackie, when we produce this up, (13:46) that she puts those five tips up on the screen here for us? Yeah, I can send you that, yeah. (13:53) Great. All right. 

So let’s go through what those five tips are. (13:58) Okay. Sure. 

(13:59) And then I’ve got some comments for you, definitely on the perceived arrogance piece,(14:03) which I think is just invaluable for people to learn. (14:07) Yeah. Well, the first tip, and some of them are much more difficult to implement than others, (14:15) and I’ll go through them all. 

The first one was demonstrate commitment to the company, (14:21) which I started to talk about earlier. And one of the key points I made to her was, (14:26) get to work a little early and leave a little late, because what I was seeing at New York Life (14:32) was people coming in the door right at the beginning of work or later, and people leaving, (14:39) sort of packing up their desk with a half hour left to go and bolting out of the company as soon (14:46) as the workday was over. And I said to her, I noticed the people who were hanging around later, (14:54) and your bosses will notice people who are hanging around a little later, because they’re the type (15:00) people who are working hard and staying long. 

And even if they don’t know who you are, you’re (15:05) going to get noticed. It’s a simple thing to do. I mean, you don’t want to hurt your balance with (15:10) your family and your faith, but it’s well worth the investment to do that. 

(15:17) Well, there’s just not that many ways to, I mean, there’s not that many ways to stand out rather (15:21) other than small actions, right? Yeah. And so the second one was, I’m trying to remember the (15:31) order of them, but they’re in the book. Is this chapter 6, 8, 9, 11? Yeah, 6, 8, 9, 11. 

(15:37) I actually have, I have these up. So develop cultural and organizational awareness. (15:43) Yeah. 

That one I said to her, you know, my success at New York Life was largely dependent on the(15:50) fact that I came from a medium-sized company where I had functional responsibility for almost (15:56) everything. And I get to New York Life and they were very siloed. You know, almost every person (16:05) had worked in their department their entire career and never interacted with anyone else. 

(16:13) So I said to her, you know, get to know people in other departments, because she was also in (16:20) a big company, but it’s true even of a small company. Get to know people in other departments. (16:25) When you have lunch with them or dinner, or you even go out for drinks after work, (16:31) you know, don’t talk about the latest TV reality show or series. 

You know, ask them what they do (16:38) for the company, what their role is, and even volunteer to help them. And she was a French (16:46) major in college and was very fluent in several languages. And I said, you know, your company’s (16:55) in countries all over the world. 

Volunteer to do some translation for them so they don’t have to (17:03) pay an outside firm to do it. And she did that. So in culture, by the way, I’m glad you mentioned (17:10) that because one of the blogs, I think we just put it up this week. 

If it’s not this week, (17:16) it will be next week on my website, is about culture, understanding corporate culture. (17:22) And I list a number of ways in that article on how one might understand corporate culture. (17:30) You know, we talk about culture a lot, you know, as from the executive,(17:35) the boardroom, basically, of, you know, how are we going to instill a certain culture? But what (17:40) you’re actually explaining is, from an employee’s perspective, how can you understand what that (17:47) culture is, demonstrate to other people that you understand that culture, and demonstrate that you (17:53) understand the various roles of people in that organization? And so I think that’s a really (17:58) unique way to look at this, because we normally look at it from the executive level down. 

How are we going (18:05) to make this a culture of a family experience? Or how are we going to make this a culture of (18:09) kindness or whatever? But really going from the employee standpoint and saying, Hey, I’m going to put that (18:14) on myself to learn this culture and embrace it and then add to it. (18:19) Yes, exactly. You hit the nail on the head. 

Did you read my blog? (18:23) I read your book. (18:26) Yeah, you nailed it. Because, you know, culture can be this amorphous thing that nobody really (18:34) understands. 

So you got to kind of, you know, do it in a granular fashion. What does it really (18:41) mean? It’s kind of the vibe of the organization. It’s often driven from the top. 

It’s the value (18:46) system that’s expressed not only by the company, by the company’s leaders. I mean, that’s what it’s (18:52) all about. And it’s about, you know, what’s forbidden here? What’s accepted here? What’s (18:59) recognized here as good behavior? I mean, it’s all those things. 

And I even tell people, people have (19:06) come to me about, in fact, I’m just working with a young guy now, who’s interviewing for new jobs. (19:13) He’s already an executive. But he’s thinking about leaving his company. 

I’ve been mentoring him for (19:20) several years. And he and I’ve had this discussion about culture. And I said, Look, when you interview, (19:27) you’ve got to try to get some understanding of the corporate culture. 

And you might be able to get (19:32) that from their published articles, from what you read about the company, or even (19:38) potentially from their annual report, seeing what they’re emphasizing in their annual report. (19:44) But you could also, if you know some people who work there, talk to them about it. So culture, (19:49) I think, is very important. 

And the third piece, is that they take charge of your own development? (20:00) Which chapter was that? That was 11. Yeah, that wasn’t in the original five. That wasn’t? Okay. 

(20:08) No, but let me get that in the bonus round, then. Yeah, there you go. But I’ll give you,(20:14) I’ll give you the original five. 

And if you want me to be more brief, just tell me. (20:19) No, no, no. So we’re on three here. 

So yeah, let’s let’s hear four and five. (20:22) And mission, the mission statement. And again, this, this also is one of my articles, (20:30) I felt these were so important that that’s one of the articles on my, on my website, (20:36) the blog article. 

And what I said to my daughter is I said, Look, here’s something you can do very (20:42) simply, is get an understanding of the corporate mission, and actually memorize it. And she said (20:51) to me, Dad, you really want me walking around, quoting the corporate mission. And I said, (20:57) absolutely not. 

I said, it’ll be perceived as arrogant if you’re doing that. But the reason (21:02) I want you to memorize it is I want to be embedded in your brain. Because then you can test decisions (21:10) that are made by the company decisions that are made by your superiors, even decisions that you(21:15) will be called to make at some point against the corporate mission, because I think it’s critically (21:21) important for companies to take actions that are well aligned with their mission. 

So she did that. (21:32) The next one, and I’m not this might not be the right order, but the next one was about (21:36) developing strategic thinking capability. And I consider that one of the best chapters in my book. 

(21:47) Because at New York Life, even as president of the company, I had people reporting to me(21:53) who really did not understand at very high level, the difference between strategy and tactics. (22:02) And so I said to my daughter, you know, I gave her a little history lesson that strategy, (22:07) the term strategy was historically a war term. It was about how to defeat the enemy. 

(22:14) And I said in business, it’s really about beating the competition and (22:22) creating sustainable competitive advantage. So strategy is the ways in which you can do that, (22:30) what you’re intending to do to achieve sustainable competitive advantage. It’s not the details of how(22:38) you’re going to do it. 

That’s tactical. But strategically, and she said, you know, (22:45) when I first talked to her about strategy, she said, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. (22:49) I mean, she was a French major, she had no business courses. 

And I said, well, look, (22:55) there’s ways you can understand your company’s strategy by just going to their strategic plan. (23:02) That should outline it well. And even if they don’t publish their strategic plan, (23:07) it might be in some of the published documents alluded to, especially if they’re a publicly (23:13) traded company. 

And hers was. I said, you can look at the analyst reports on the company, (23:19) and you’ll be able to garner what some most of the key strategic initiatives are. (23:26) But then I said, here’s the tough part. 

I want you to identify four or five of your company’s (23:33) top competitors. And then do your research on them. And understand, try to understand (23:41) what their strategies are and where they may be failing relative to your company and where they (23:48) may be, you know, succeeding in capturing market share from your company because of their strategic (23:55) approach. 

So she did that. And she actually went a step farther. I might have mentioned this in the (24:01) book. 

She started buying the products of the competitors and becoming a customer of the (24:08) competitors. So she could understand their products, what was unique about them, and also(24:17) become someone who’s getting their emails and is able, because she’s a customer, to talk to them. (24:24) The client journey as it was experienced from the competitor’s client. 

(24:32) Absolutely. So she did a very good job with that. And I think that might be one of the ways she got (24:37) recognized quickly, is having an understanding of the competition. 

Because even if you’re a (24:45) big company, but it was in a marketplace that had 2,000 insurance companies. So when I first (24:53) got to the company, I started talking a lot about competition. And everybody would say, (24:58) we don’t have any competition. 

We’re New York Life. We’re everybody’s AAA company. I said, (25:03) are you kidding me? We definitely have competitors. 

We could be losing market share to some of them. (25:11) So there’s a page in my book, I think it’s like page 104 or 105, that gives a list of questions (25:19) you can ask yourself. And this is also in the blog article about your company, that will (25:26) immediately develop strategic thinking capability as you try to answer those questions, or you go (25:33) to other people in the company to get answers to those questions. 

The final point of the first five, (25:41) and I added five more in the book, but the first five I gave to my daughter was probably the hardest (25:46) one for her. And I said, this will be the hardest one for you, but I’m going to make it easy. (25:52) Because she never had a math class in college. 

She never had an economics class. She never had (25:57) a business class, never had an accounting class. And I said, I want you to get a fundamental (26:03) understanding of the financial underpinnings of the business. 

And she nearly panicked. I could (26:11) see it in their face. And I said, now wait a minute, I’m going to make this simple. 

You don’t (26:17) have to understand every line item in the income statement and the balance sheet. Forget about it. (26:24) You’re never going to, you’re never, it’s not worth your time. 

But what I want you to do is (26:28) understand how the income statement, which produces a profit or a loss, feeds into the balance sheet, (26:35) which is, you know, assets minus liabilities equals net worth. I just want you to understand, (26:42) find somebody in the accounting department who can kind of explain this to you and answer (26:46) questions. Then I said, I want you to set up a spreadsheet of six entries. 

And she knew how to (26:54) do an Excel sheet. So you’re going to put in six entries and you’re going to fill it in every (27:01) quarter. It’s going to be easy. 

It’s going to take you two minutes. You get the financial (27:05) statements of the company and you list the following six items from the income statement, (27:13) total revenues, total expenses, net bottom line, profit or loss. And then from the balance sheet, (27:22) three items, total assets, total liabilities, and net equity. 

That’s it. You list those three, (27:32) six numbers and then track it every quarter. And she was a publicly traded company, so it was easy (27:38) to get every quarter. 

And I said, you’re going to be the only person, you probably be less than (27:45) 2% of the people in the company will have ever looked at this. And I said to her, (27:52) I’m president of the company and I’ve got 12 people reporting to me. If I went to a staff (27:58) meeting and I said, somebody tell me what our revenues were last quarter, they wouldn’t have (28:04) a clue. 

And they wouldn’t even probably want to guess because they’d be so far off. People get (28:13) buried in their, immersed in their own function and they’re not looking at these things. (28:19) So I said, you’re going to be way ahead of everybody else because you’re going to understand. 

(28:23) Now I said, again, you don’t want to be perceived as arrogant, so be careful how you use that. (28:29) But when you go back to your accounting department friend, you can say, hey, I noticed that revenues (28:35) were going way up at the bottom line was going down. What’s up? Or I noticed we had a big (28:42) increase in assets this last quarter. 

Can you explain that to me? Or why is net equity changing (28:50) the way it’s changing? Is that a problem or no? So she did that and she started having meetings (28:56) with the accounting department to talk about that. And then I finally said to her, now that you’ve (29:03) understood that and you’ve been tracking it, go to the guy in accounting and I want you to ask, (29:10) I called it the killer question. In fact, I wrote an article about that was published (29:18) and it was about all five tips and the market watch blog, which was the Wall Street Journal (29:30) called me and said, we want you to write an article for our posting on the online posting (29:37) of a blog. 

And I said, sure, I can expand on these five tips. They said, no, we want you to (29:45) expand on tip number five. And often when you do this, I’ve done it a few times, they will change (29:52) the title of the article. 

And that was fine. They didn’t change the article, but they changed the (30:00) title. And they called it the killer question. 

And they have something like 20 million viewers (30:08) a month of that blog. So I got a lot of attention. What was the exact killer question? (30:17) Oh yeah, I didn’t tell you the question. 

The question was go to your accountant and say, (30:21) very simply. And I said, say it exactly the way I’m saying it to you. What drives the profitability (30:30) of this business? And I said to her, you know, the accountant may even pause and say, you know, (30:39) I have to get back to you on that. 

Even the accountant might have to say that. And I said, (30:45) well, be persistent. You know, what really drives the profitability of the business? (30:50) And I said, I also said to her, the CEO of your company, big company. 

I said, the CEO of your (30:57) company is probably going to hear that this girl in the marketing department is asking questions (31:03) like this. And I said, there’s no better way to distinguish yourself and at least create the (31:12) possibility of significant advancement within the company. So those are the five. 

I don’t want to (31:18) get into all 10, but you know, there’s five more tips in the book. And you know, I think it’s had a (31:26) big impact on a lot of people. Well, I just like that. 

I mean, when I think about your (31:35) piece of advice about the develop a strategic thinking capability, right? What you’ve really (31:43) done here in your tips is you’ve said, let’s take all the elements that make up a company (31:49) and let’s look at them, which is the best way to understand strategy, right? Because (31:54) otherwise everything looks like a tactic. If you’re, if you’re only looking at it through the (31:58) one small lens of I’m this, and this is what I do. I’m a marketing person and I make this blog or I (32:04) make this post or whatever. 

But what you’re saying is you’re saying, let’s go through, understand (32:09) the finances of the business. Let’s understand the people and the roles of the business. Let’s (32:14) understand the culture of the business, the mission of the business. 

And then let’s understand (32:19) ourself better and show that ourself, you know, is the, is the, is the person who’s demonstrating (32:26) commitment. And so right there, you take all those elements and you can’t help but become a strategic (32:32) thinker. Yeah, exactly. 

You know, it’s really, there’s a whole scope of what the company is trying (32:39) to do. Yeah. Did you ever read the book? It’s an old book, but a new, nice new title, the new, (32:46) the new strategic selling. 

I don’t know. I don’t know if you remember that book. I should. 

Yeah, (32:52) I’ve heard of it. The long story short is it’s it, the moral of the story is, is it’s a major(32:58) reminder that no decision is what it appears to be on the surface. And no one makes an individual (33:05) decision in companies rarely ever. 

There’s always a hidden decision maker, whether it’s the person’s (33:11) or the board or the president or whomever. And there’s always a multitude of people who are, (33:18) who are influencing this, this purchasing decision in some way, shape or form. And so it’s the (33:26) reminder that you have to look at things strategically and not just, Oh, Fred wants to buy (33:32) this. 

And he’s the president of New York life. Well, Fred’s going to go to his, his VPs and his (33:37) VPs are probably going to go to their directors. And then, you know what? Fred’s going to sit at (33:40) the dinner table at night and say, honey, what do you think about this? I’m dealing with this (33:45) big thing at work. 

Right. And before you know it, all of those influences are playing into your, (33:50) into your purchasing decision. And I think that’s a, that’s a great, great observation, (33:54) because as you’re talking, I realized how many times I had to do that. 

And also, (34:00) also how many times I became kind of the mediator between two conflicting departments. (34:07) Typically the finance department and the marketing and sales area, you know, where they don’t (34:14) understand the importance of the bottom line and marketing. And they feel that the finance guys (34:21) don’t realize I’m never going to sell anything if we do what you want us to do. 

So, you know, (34:26) you have to balance that. You definitely have to balance that and try and accomplish growth in both (34:32) areas. Growth on the top line, you know, of revenues and growth in the bottom line. 

To me, (34:39) that’s, that’s, I wasn’t planning on bringing this up in a meeting, but I think it’s in my book (34:44) somewhere. I was on the board of a big company, Express Scripts. We, we, they do pharmaceutical (34:51) benefit management. 

And I was on their board because New York Life bought them and we bought (34:57) them for $3 million, all in, everything, the, the company, the buildings, you know, the liabilities (35:05) as well. But for three or $4 million, we bought the company in 1992. And I was on their board for (35:12) about 10 years. 

And I learned so much from their CEO. It was unbelievable because he had, if you (35:22) ask him for his elevator speech on what his plans were, and he knew the details, the cold, (35:28) but his elevator speech was, I want to achieve 30% top line growth and 30% bottom line growth (35:35) every year. Now that’s very aggressive, but when you set that as an objective, and by the way,(35:43) he actually did it. 

And when you set that as an objective and, and that’s really your standard (35:51) and the whole company knows it, people are thinking outside the nine, nine dots on how (35:57) we’re going to possibly do this at the same time, get strong growth and strong, strong profits. (36:05) And that company, by the way, this, this is an unbelievable statistic. That company from 1992 (36:11) to when I retired, like 15 years later, what became the number, the 22nd (36:20) company on the fortune $500. 

It grew to a net worth, net capital of $58 billion. (36:31) And it started at $3 million. And it really was because he simultaneously achieved this remarkable (36:41) history of top line and bottom line growth. 

So I tell people probably the most important thing (36:48) I’m going to say at this presentation is success in business, especially if you’re an entrepreneur, (36:55) can come from that kind of a strategy. It may be difficult to implement, but that kind of an (37:02) attitude that we’re going to find a way to grow top line and bottom line. And the way you do that (37:08) is you allow, you price your company and your products in a way that, (37:15) you know, the, the competitive advantage over your competition will enable you to do that. 

(37:22) Even if you’re priced higher than that, you know, you provide other ancillary benefits and features (37:28) and service that they don’t provide. And that’s what he did with Express Scripts. I’m guessing, (37:35) Matt, you’ve had some successes like that. 

I mean, that’s pretty extreme, but, you know, (37:40) I’m guessing that, you know, running your company, you’re implementing a lot of the things I’m talking (37:45) about. We’re, we’re, we’re doing our best there, right? I mean, we’re trying to grow top line and (37:51) bottom line at the same time, not as aggressively as the gentleman from Express Scripts, but (37:59) we, you know, we, we, we do have a vision, mission and values that we follow. And, you know, (38:06) you’re certainly making me think about how do I tighten up that vision to make sure that everybody(38:11) understands, you know, what we need to do with those numbers. 

You know, our mission is to help (38:19) other people accomplish their mission through technology. So that reminder of if you’re a (38:26) service desk technician on the phone with, with Fred, who needs help with his computer is, (38:33) needs to be front of mind, right? How do I help Fred get back to work as fast as possible? (38:38) You know, secondly, if we’re selling you something new, you know, as an upgrade, how are we making (38:45) sure that we’re following the discipline to say, how is this helping this person accomplish their (38:49) mission through technology? And then all the while doing it under, under the golden rule, (38:56) right? Treating others how they want to be treated. And we modify that with, with the (39:01) treating others in a way better than they ever expected to be treated is, is the, is the awesome. 

(39:06) Exceeding expectations. Absolutely. I know you talked a little about this when I, when I spoke (39:11) to the, the group, the CBRT group. 

Yeah. So I’m not surprised to hear you repeat that. That’s (39:17) an important element of your own strategy, corporate strategy. 

Yeah. Well, you know, some (39:23) things that have come up for me, you know, and I think almost in every episode, I think I quote (39:27) Patrick Lencioni and the ideal team player as humble, hungry, and smart, right? That’s, that’s, (39:33) that is another way to encapsulate very simply all of the elements and, and fast start tips that (39:40) you gave to your, to your daughter. So some things kind of. 

I’m glad you, I’m glad you (39:46) mentioned humility because I, I, I focused on that a lot. Well, your, your piece about perceived (39:55) arrogance is really what is really where I want to kind of hone in on, because I think that humility (40:00) piece is the piece that a lot of us miss when we’re moving fast in the day-to-day business, (40:06) whether you’re an executive or an employee or, you know, wherever you play in. There’s a statement (40:13) that’s, you know, we judge, we judge ourselves by our intentions and we judge others by their (40:18) actions. 

And that’s a dangerous thing, right? Because we, if we’re not taking in that 360 (40:25) view or getting feedback and then actually processing the feedback of, Hey, you know what, (40:31) Matt, you came off as pretty arrogant when you said this, or Matt, you know, every time you do (40:36) this, if, if we don’t listen to the other person who’s giving us that feedback we’re never going(40:43) to get better. And I think that the perceived arrogance piece, no matter what level of the(40:49) organization you’re in, it has to be a, has to be something that you’re reminding yourself of(40:53) on a daily basis. How am I coming off to this person? Yeah, absolutely. 

And you know, (41:00) you’re, you’re triggering more thoughts in my mind, some of which are in(41:05) my earlier books, but I had an encounter with President Clinton and I won’t go through all the (41:12) reasons I met him, but it was, it was after his scandal. And so I, I wasn’t all that exciting,(41:21) excited about meeting him, but I learned some things from him in that meeting. And I think it (41:27) was in my first book, lessons from President Clinton or something like that. 

The book was (41:34) called God Revealed. But one of the things he said to me when we first got introduced and it was at (41:41) the White House and we chatted for a minute and I told him, you know, I’m president of New York (41:48) life. And he said to me, you hired away one of my best advisors. 

And I said, what? He said, (41:59) yeah, you hired away my foreign advisor, name was Sandy Kristoff. And you know, I’m still not over (42:09) that. And I said something like, well, what do you mean? And he said, I loved her because she (42:15) always told me what I needed to know instead of what I wanted to hear. 

I thought that was a great, (42:24) great statement. And I can’t tell you how many times I told people on my staff about that. (42:31) Tell me what I need to know, not what I want to hear, because you know, people don’t want to (42:37) give you bad news, but I’d rather get the bad news and deal with it than not know about it (42:43) and have it get worse. 

And so I never really punished people for something bad that had (42:50) happened, even if it was their mistake. I mean, unless it’s something that was really egregious, (42:54) but I always felt like they’re comfortable coming and talking to me. Again, Matt, it’s the trust (43:00) issue. 

They trusted that I really wanted to hear it. And they came to me when there was an emerging(43:06) problem. So I just thought of that when you talked about humility and that’s great trust. 

(43:12) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Auxium, (43:16) business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos. Empowered by Juniper Networks, (43:21) automate your network with Juniper Networks and the Mist AI platform, (43:25) the world’s first AI driven wired and wireless network. (43:29) Let’s go through a little quick, you know, we’ve talked a lot about business, but we haven’t (43:34) really talked about kind of life for you in terms of let’s talk some kind of your career path, (43:40) your family path. 

You’ve got some kind of interesting things that I’ve gone through (43:47) some similar things as well. But, you know, you’ve changed careers, started off as a teacher, (43:55) became an actuary, became president of New York Life Insurance. Can you kind of just hit me with (44:02) and anybody who’s viewing this with your kind of major touch points and kind of walk through (44:07) what family was like during those transitions? Yeah, sure. 

That’s something I love to talk (44:13) about. I think I spent time with Andrea on that one. Yeah, I was asked at my church to give an (44:22) elevator speech about my spiritual journey. 

And so I’m going to give you that like really rapid (44:27) fire. Maybe we need another session to cover a little bit, but I was raised in a non-worshipping (44:36) family as a kid in Detroit, lower income family. But both parents worked two jobs (44:45) and I have one brother. 

And I had this mystical adolescent experience at age 12 where I really (44:53) felt I was in the presence of God and that God was speaking to me. I was asking a whole lot (44:59) of questions because I’m a baby boomer and had a whole lot of kids in my neighborhood of different (45:05) faiths. And we’d talk and I was confused. 

So I’m asking all these questions. I’m in my bed (45:13) contemplating all this on a summer day and I’m home alone. And I’m going through all these (45:18) questions in my mind. 

I’m not asleep. I’m not hypnotized. And I feel myself lifted and not a (45:24) body experience where I felt I was being lifted and in God’s hands. 

And God was saying to me, (45:31) not audibly, but I felt he was saying to me, you have a lot of questions. Answers will come (45:39) in time. And yes, I will always be with you. 

That gave me kind of a lifelong faith, a very strong (45:46) faith and a burning desire to learn more. Then, you know, I go to college and of course I do a (45:52) lot of crazy things that kids do in college, but I was still believing in God and not really very (45:58) involved in church at that point. But I got married to a Christian woman and we went to church. 

I (46:05) loved her grandmother who was a big influence on me. And we were trying to have children. We were (46:12) told by a couple of different fertility doctors that neither one of us would ever have children. 

(46:20) So we adopted three girls. And lo and behold, after 16 years of marriage, along came the miracle (46:29) of Zachary, my first son, first natural born son. And then 18 months later, along came the miracle (46:37) of Corey, my second natural born son. 

And these really were miracles. I mean, we were told this (46:44) would never happen. Were the children, your adopted children, were they babies when you got (46:50) them? Yeah, two of them were. 

One was five months old. There’s two Korean orphans and one special (46:57) needs child. The two Korean orphans, one was five months old and one was nine months old. 

They (47:03) weren’t siblings, but we adopted them at different times. And then the natural, the special needs (47:10) girl was two and a half when we adopted her. And we knew she had some special needs. 

Not real (47:17) serious, but serious enough. And how’s everybody doing today? How old is everyone today? (47:24) Outstanding. It’s a wonderful family situation. 

And I’ll get to that in a minute because there’s (47:33) interesting, unusual about that as well. But then, so we had the five kids, three adopted, (47:44) two natural born. And somewhere in that, after we had the kids, I was working in Michigan at (47:53) a medium-sized company. 

And I really felt a calling to leave the company. And for some (48:02) things, not because they were rejecting me, but because things weren’t going quite right. (48:08) And I won’t explain all that. 

But so I felt called to move. So here we are, a young family (48:14) with five kids. And I decide to move to the East and get a job in Manhattan, New York life, (48:24) with five young kids. 

And this is an enormous transition, but I really felt that God was (48:32) pulling me in that direction. And that New York life was not only going to be a place where I (48:38) could thrive, but also could express my faith. And there were reasons that I felt that way. 

(48:46) Then after that happened, when we ended up at New York life, when I was at New York life, (48:51) you know, by the grace of God, we ended up with five grandkids. Strangely enough,(48:58) three who were adopted and two were natural born. And talk about an unusual decision. 

I’m (49:07) president of New York life, 59 years old. And I decide I’m going to retire early (49:16) and go to divinity school. Now, there was no reason for me to retire. 

No one was forcing me (49:24) out. But I will say this, because of my communication of my faith, no one was surprised (49:31) by it, really. When the CEO, because we were in 12 countries, I probably had 12 retirement parties, (49:38) you know, one in each country. 

And the CEO or whoever was there with me to recognize the event (49:47) always said no one was surprised that Fred’s retiring to go to divinity school. So I did that (49:55) at age 59. And there were a couple of other events that led up to that, that really convinced me to (50:02) do this. 

And they were definitely faith based kind of epiphanies. (50:08) And it was Yale Divinity School that you went to? (50:12) Yale Divinity School. The reason I chose Yale, and it really, in many ways, is much more liberal, (50:23) both theologically and politically than I am. 

But it was close to home. And I knew a professor at (50:30) Yale Divinity School, and my own senior minister had gone to Yale Divinity School. So I was being (50:37) coached by those guys. 

And I went, maybe a little reluctant, I probably would have preferred to go (50:44) elsewhere. But it was convenient. I mean, I lived like 20 minutes away. 

And it was a great experience. (50:50) I mean, really a great experience. I felt I could express myself in any way I wanted to, (50:57) and I could express my more conservative views without getting attacked. 

I mean, it was very (51:04) civil discourse. And I learned a lot. I mean, I really learned a lot. 

I mean, I was there for four (51:10) years. It was a two-year program. It took me four years to complete, because I was on several boards (51:18) at the time. 

But then, you know, I get through that, and I decide to write some books. And I (51:25) always felt I wrote pretty well, but I wanted to tell my story. And it was all faith-based. 

The (51:32) first book God Revealed was 31 encounters I felt I had with God over the course of my life. (51:39) And the subtitle of the book was Revisit Your Past to Enrich Your Future, because I wanted people, (51:45) I didn’t want it to appear like memoirs. I wanted it to trigger in other people memories of their (51:53) own potential encounters with God that they may have even missed, but in hindsight realized God was (51:59) intervening in their life. 

Then, as a result of that, I did quite a few TV and radio interviews (52:09) in some small group, a lot of small group, Bible studies, men’s breakfast, women’s breakfast. (52:15) And I talked to them and tell my story, and then asked them to break into small groups and tell (52:21) their story, Grace Revealed. And the subtitle was Trust in God’s Strength in Any Crisis, because (52:29) that book was about people who were in severe crisis that I discovered. 

Half of them I knew (52:35) already. The other half I learned about when I was doing these speaking engagements. (52:41) So that was book number two. 

And by the way, the 700 Club called me and said, (52:47) we’d like to talk to some of the people who you write about in your book. And do we have your (52:55) permission to do that? I said, yeah, you have my permission, but you got to talk to them. (52:59) So they interviewed seven people, I think it was five people in the book, and chose two of them (53:06) to do feature videos. 

And they sent me a note after these two videos aired on the 700 Club (53:14) and said at the end of each of these videos, we had 8,000 prayer requests come in on the (53:22) topic that was discussed. One of them was about sexual abuse as someone who had been (53:26) abused sexually as a child. And the other one was severe addiction and suicidal tendencies. 

(53:35) So my passion has always been to impact people’s lives in a positive way by speaking and writing (53:42) about my own faith. And this was kind of a reassurance of that and reinforcement of that. (53:49) And then as I said earlier, the genesis of the final book, at least, well, I won’t call it the (53:55) final book, my most recent book. 

There might be another one in the works, but it was My Daughter (54:02) and the questions my daughter posed to me. And what was interesting about that book is the (54:08) market, when you write a book, because now I’ve written three, the publisher wants you to zero in (54:14) on a pretty tight market. And so that book, Fast Starting a Career of Consequence, was designed (54:21) for, written for Christian students about to graduate from college. 

That’s who I originally (54:29) wrote it for. Then the pandemic hit, and the subtitle was originally Christ-centered advice (54:35) for entering the workforce. Yeah, entering the workforce. 

And when COVID hit, it hadn’t been (54:43) published yet. It was in a final manuscript. And after COVID hit, I went back through and revised (54:50) the manuscript because I realized it no longer was just going to be for Christian college students. 

(54:58) And in fact, the market expanded dramatically because so many people were either out of work (55:04) looking for new jobs, coming back from military service, coming back from child rearing years. (55:10) So I changed the subtitle to Christ-centered advice for people entering or re-entering (55:16) the workforce. So I really felt it was providential that the market had expanded dramatically from (55:23) college students about to graduate. 

I would even argue though that that book (55:32) really speaks to anybody who’s an employee or a leader in a company. I mean, I think it’s so broad, (55:40) and I don’t even think that it has to be somebody who’s looking for a Christ-centered approach per (55:44) say either. I think it’s a very broad book that would be valuable for anyone who’s in business, (55:55) period, to read. 

It’s a great reminder of strategic thinking, holistic thinking, (56:01) 360 thinking, and blind spots that most people have in regards to how to get noticed, (56:13) how to make a difference, and other positive influences that you can have inside of an (56:21) organization. I’m glad you brought that up because I should have mentioned that (56:26) if you went on amazon.com, there’s probably, I don’t know, 150, 160 reviews on Amazon. I would (56:33) say almost half of them, maybe even more than half, people say what you just said, (56:39) that this book is not just for Christians because of the value of the business advice. 

(56:46) So, yeah, it just goes to show you how fast that market expanded, given the environment.(56:54) Sure, sure. So, there was a story that you gave that I want to just kind of talk about doing the (57:03) right thing, you know, doing the right thing or doing things right. 

Saving a family from ruin (57:09) at age 50. Can you, would you tell that story, you know, and obviously put whatever purviews you (57:17) can put on it from the perspective of, you know, your own internal team, to you, to the family (57:22) that it affected, and explain, you know, why you did the right thing, how you did the right thing, (57:29) kind of all of that. Yeah, well, yeah, I, at that point, I don’t think I was yet president (57:37) of the company. 

I was an executive VP running the biggest business unit. I remember it was in the (57:44) clip that I had read this, and it was, you’re around 50 years old, when it happened. Yeah, (57:49) right, right. 

So, I was running all of marketing, sales, finances, (57:58) service, I was running all the functions. And I got invited to the Million Dollar Roundtable (58:05) meeting, which is a big, huge industry meeting, recognizing agents every year who sold a certain (58:13) amount of business. And it was attended by 7,000 attendees from around the world. 

And New York Life, (58:23) you know, there were 200 companies represented. So, this was not a New York Life event. (58:28) So, I go to the meeting, and I’m sitting near the front of the stage, 7,000 people. 

(58:35) And they had an award that was given every year. And it was a competition. It was called the Real (58:43) Life Stories Competition. 

And agents and clients would submit their stories. And it was usually (58:52) about the value of life insurance. So, I’m sitting there, and I knew the guy who presented the award, (58:59) David Woods. 

And he gets up and presents the award. And then they show a video (59:05) of this particular case, one winner, you know, out of all the submissions. And the video starts, (59:12) and it’s about a family, young family, probably in their 30s, a couple of kids, young kids. 

(59:23) And the husband had applied for life insurance on a Friday, was killed in an automobile accident (59:32) two days later on Sunday. And they were interviewing the wife who was talking about (59:39) the great value of insurance and how it covered their mortgage. She could pay off their mortgage. 

(59:46) She had money to put aside for the kids’ education. They even interviewed the kids,(59:53) the two young kids playing on a swing in the backyard, who, you know, were talking about(1:00:00) their dad. And there was not a dry eye in the house. 

I mean, it was very emotional. (1:00:07) Now, the tears were running down my cheeks for a different reason. It was an emotional story, (1:00:17) but it started to sound familiar to me. 

It sounded like a case that had come across my desk (1:00:24) about three or four months before, with a note from the legal department (1:00:31) asking only the only case I had ever received as an executive at New York Life, where they asked me (1:00:41) to decide on the claim payment, give it approval or deny it. And the law department was recommending (1:00:49) I deny it. However, and by the way, as I’m watching this video, at the end, they interview (1:00:59) the agent. 

And I realize this is actually the same case. Okay. Because they’re interviewing (1:01:09) the agent from New York Life. 

And I nearly fell to my knees. I mean, this was like a message (1:01:15) from God to me, because what I decided when I got that material from the law department, (1:01:22) I started reading through it. I didn’t know about the kids and, you know, about mortgage. 

(1:01:27) I didn’t know anything. I knew how big the policy was, and I knew it was going to hit the bottom (1:01:32) line and be a loss for New York Life. And the lawyers were saying, because there was no premium (1:01:39) with the application, the coverage was not bound, legally bound. 

So we do not have to pay this claim. (1:01:49) But there was an extenuating circumstance that on the desk of the deceased was a check written (1:01:56) out to New York Life for the premium payment. And I looked at it and I thought, you know, (1:02:04) what’s the right thing to do here? I mean, this guy was ready to pay the premium. 

He wrote the check. (1:02:11) I think they even looked in the investigation at a handwriting expert, and he wrote the check (1:02:17) and signed it. So literally, I looked at this map for maybe one minute and said, it’s approved. 

(1:02:25) Wow. And, you know, when I tell that story to agents and employees, which I told many,(1:02:34) many times, I said, you know, Fred Seaver was not the hero of that story. It was the agent. 

(1:02:42) It was the agent who persisted in making the sale. It was the agent who, you know,(1:02:48) probably persisted in the claim payment and probably insisted you go to a higher level(1:02:53) to get a decision. It was the agent that was the hero. 

I said, any of you would have done the same (1:03:00) thing I did. But to me, that encouraged me, even though I was doing good work at New York Life, (1:03:10) it was to me, it was God intervening. And, you know, that encouraged me to go to divinity school. 

(1:03:17) Now, I went several years later, but still, it was a big deal and a big impetus for me.(1:03:25) The other one, I won’t tell you the whole story, was my viewing a quadruple bypass surgery (1:03:32) in India, and not from an amphitheater way above the operating table, but the chief of staff asked (1:03:42) the anesthesiologist to step aside. And I was at the head of the table,(1:03:47) watching a quadruple bypass surgery that was happening 18 inches from my face. 

(1:03:55) And I’m seeing this chest opened up with a beating heart. And it was a profound spiritual(1:04:02) moment for me. Because how often do you think about your heart beating like that? And it beats, (1:04:08) it can beat for 70, 80, 90, 100 years. 

This had to be God’s creation. I mean, I was crying. (1:04:16) They put me in booties and a mask and all that. 

And I was crying and thinking, I hope my tears (1:04:23) aren’t falling on the patient’s head. But the truth is, the mask was capturing my tears. (1:04:30) But it was just so profound. 

I couldn’t imagine how any doctor couldn’t realize the wonder of God’s (1:04:40) miraculous creation. So those were kind of the elevator points in my elevator speech. (1:04:50) Took a little longer than that to tell, but that’s how the whole unusual situation. 

One more point. (1:04:59) Yeah. Talk about uncommon decisions. 

I’m retired. I’ve written three books. My wife and I are (1:05:08) living on Cape Cod and loving it. 

You know, we’re at a great church and we’re living at Cape Cod. (1:05:17) And I really felt called as I’m aging to potentially move together with some of my other (1:05:26) kids. We have five kids, five grandkids. 

So my daughter lived in New Hampshire. She was close. (1:05:37) My special needs daughter was living in Massachusetts. 

She was close. The other kids (1:05:43) were either in Michigan or Utah. And we started looking for a house in New Hampshire that we (1:05:56) two daughters, a son-in-law, three grandkids, and my wife and I. We made the decision (1:06:04) and put an offer on a house even before I, you know, or actually after I realized New Hampshire’s (1:06:13) the least church state in the union. 

And we cut a deal to buy this house. And I did it on faith, (1:06:25) felt I was being called to do this, recognizing that it was going to be really hard to find a (1:06:31) church. And my wife and I, you know, live streamed services from 20 churches in the area. 

Couldn’t (1:06:40) find anything we liked, but we made the move. And the house we’re living in is a former ski lodge (1:06:49) that’s at the top of the mountain. So I’m getting right now, 45 mile views out my office window, (1:06:58) the spectacular sunrises and sunsets. 

Now, Jackie told me that you shared some pictures (1:07:04) that we’re going to be able to share on here as well. Yeah, I did. I did. 

Yeah. (1:07:11) So here’s the miraculous thing. We have live streamed all these churches and we didn’t like (1:07:17) them. 

And I didn’t want to drive 30 miles in the snow, you know, to get to in the winter, (1:07:22) to get to a church. And so we end up staying in this country inn in town. New London’s the name (1:07:29) of the town. 

And we live three miles from New London. We stay in this country inn and to make (1:07:36) a long story short, there’s a family there that’s there only because their daughter’s getting married(1:07:41) in town. But the mother, father and the grandfather and grandmother, I met while (1:07:48) we’re staying there. 

And the father and the grandfather were both ministers, but from North (1:07:53) Carolina. So I explained to the grandmother at breakfast one morning, what I’m looking for in (1:08:02) the church and how, you know, I’m trusting God to put me in the right place. And we made this move(1:08:09) on faith. 

And I’m hoping we find what we want. She says, what do you want? I said, well, I want a (1:08:15) Bible based Christ centered church with a great preacher and a warm and welcoming congregation. (1:08:22) She says, I’m going to get on my phone because I’ve got a friend who lives about 20 miles from (1:08:26) here and see what she says. 

So this is like 730 in the morning. She calls her. The woman answers (1:08:33) the phone. 

She explains what we want in church. And she says, the woman on the phone says, (1:08:41) he’s got what he wants right there in New London. And I said, what? She says, yes, (1:08:49) the first Baptist church of New London is exactly what you want. 

(1:08:55) And what the problem was when we live streamed that church, they had a visiting minister (1:09:00) and the church looked empty. And I thought, yeah, I don’t know if that’s right. We didn’t like the (1:09:07) minister. 

I didn’t know he was a visiting minister. I thought he was their full-time minister. (1:09:12) And I didn’t really get too excited about his sermon. 

Turns out the guy who’s the real (1:09:20) senior minister is phenomenal. And the church has got plenty of people in it every Sunday. (1:09:28) So we now live closer in proximity to our church than we’ve ever lived our entire life. 

(1:09:36) So it’s been marvelous. My wife’s a deacon. I’m a trustee. 

I’m running the capital campaign for (1:09:45) the organization. We’re about to exceed our goal in about two weeks. And it’s been marvelous. 

(1:09:52) Do you have all the proper insurance coverages for that church? (1:09:56) Oh, yeah. We do. It’s one of the first thing I checked. 

(1:10:01) Good. (1:10:04) Are you covered? Especially for liability insurance. (1:10:07) Great. 

(1:10:08) But yeah, I checked that. (1:10:10) So while we’ve been talking, I’ve been working on a title for your next book. (1:10:16) I don’t think I have it perfect here, but I think it’s a… (1:10:23) So your most recent book is… Tell us the title. 

(1:10:30) Best Starting Career Accounts Book. (1:10:32) Okay. So I think your next book, let’s not call it your final book, (1:10:37) is Leveraging a Career of Confidence into a Retirement of Relevance. 

(1:10:43) Whoa. (1:10:44) I think that’s you. I think… (1:10:46) Bob Buford. 

It’s a Bob Buford book. Yeah. I like that. 

Thank you. (1:10:53) I’m going to ponder that. (1:10:55) I think, well, I mean, you don’t have to take it. 

It’s okay. I mean, (1:10:57) there’s licensing fees involved if you want to use it. (1:11:00) I don’t know if you’ll want to pay the fees on it or anything like that, but we can work… (1:11:07) Well, by the way, we’ve hit on almost all the four blog articles I put on my website. 

(1:11:13) One of them is called Happier, Healthier, and Younger in Retirement. (1:11:18) It’s an article I wrote that was asked by… The Wealth Channel Magazine asked me to write an (1:11:24) article about retirement. And I think they thought I was going to write about investing and preparing(1:11:30) for retirement. 

And it was much more about identifying your spiritual gifts and following (1:11:39) your calling and that kind of thing. So it’s in the… It doesn’t talk as much about faith because (1:11:46) it was for the Wealth Channel Magazine, but a lot of people have told me that article (1:11:52) has helped them tremendously. Interesting. 

(1:11:55) So you got four blog articles you can read that we’ve already talked about. (1:12:00) There we go. Well, if we do get together again to do this again, (1:12:06) I would love to hear more about kind of the multi-generational living situation (1:12:10) and how that’s working out for you guys and how you’ve made that work for you. 

(1:12:16) You know, and because I did not hear about anyone strangling each other (1:12:21) yet or anything like that. So somehow you’re all… (1:12:23) Nothing like that. (1:12:24) You’re all getting along. 

(1:12:25) I’d be happy to talk about that, but I’m going to have to sign off here pretty quick. (1:12:28) Yep, we do too. So I think in our next segment, I think we would want to talk about that with you. 

(1:12:33) But I really appreciate you being here with us. You have been chocked full of… The only thing (1:12:39) we missed was technology. We can get that next time. 

But the transformations we’ve… I mean, (1:12:44) you are a man of transformations and no moss is growing on this rolling stone. That’s for sure. (1:12:52) I’ve heard that. 

Okay. Thanks so much. (1:12:56) Thanks for being here. 

(1:12:57) Appreciate the time. Hope to see you when I’m in Michigan again. (1:12:59) That would be great. 

(1:13:00) Yep. Take care. (1:13:01) So long.