Episode 08

0:00) Welcome to the BLTNT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, (0:05) life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes (0:09) from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

(0:14) It’s about sharing those lightbulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys (0:19) that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, (0:23) stories that resonate, or just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTNT move, (0:27) you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

(0:39) Welcome to our latest episode of the BLTNT podcast. I’m Matt Loria, and I’m happy to be(0:44) sitting here with Joscelyn Davis. My pleasure.

(0:47) Glad you’re here. Thank you. (0:49) So Joscelyn is a number of things.

She is the president and CEO of Jade Strategies. (0:55) She’s a speaker. She’s the chairman of the board for the Auburn Hills Chamber of Commerce, (1:00) which is in Auburn Hills, Michigan.

She is a mother, a wife. What else are you? (1:05) Oh, a lot of things. A lot of things.

(1:09) Yeah, a lot of things. A person of many different layers. (1:12) I think so.

That’s what we like here. (1:16) So Joscelyn, we met because we were on a number of committees together through that Auburn Hills (1:22) Chamber of Commerce organization that we both belong to. And I’ve always respected the time (1:29) that we’ve had together and what we’ve gotten to see, your contributions in those different (1:35) arenas.

And so I would love for everyone here to be able to get to know you. So let’s start off (1:41) and tell me a little bit about Jade Strategies. Let’s start off on the business front.

(1:45) Sure. Thanks, Matt. So 14 years ago, I founded the company, Jade Strategies, and the specialty (1:51) for the company is leadership development, team building, and strategic planning.

(1:56) That’s what we do. We’re really into developing high competent leaders and collaborative teams (2:03) and also organizational development, specifically strategic planning. (2:07) And it’s been 14 years.

It’s been a joy ride for 14 years. (2:10) Great. Great.

And you have done some pretty neat things there in terms of making that (2:18) organization scalable. We talked about that while you are the sole employee of the organization, (2:25) you leverage contractors that you’ve had longstanding relationships with. So they’re (2:29) really an extension of your team.

And you’ve developed a tool. (2:33) I have. I want to hear about this.

(2:35) Would love to tell you about it. So about 13 years ago, I actually created this assessment tool (2:42) for leaders, for emerging and existing leaders. And I had it on a piece of paper, (2:46) and I would have these coaching clients and I’d say, okay, I need you to fill this out.

(2:50) And they always loved it because the tool itself is a self-assessment. It started, (2:55) I should say, as a self-assessment to look at different levels of competency for a leader. (3:00) So your high level competencies are more about, do you create an environment that is (3:06) about accountability and about commitment for the organization or for your team? (3:11) Are you adaptable? Do you do things with a sense of urgency? That sort of thing.

(3:16) The second level to that would be the core competencies. And that’s more where we’re(3:20) talking about performance management. How are you handling your team? Are you creating(3:24) ways for them to feel empowered and for them to grow? Are you a good communicator?(3:29) It’s those kinds of questions.

And the third level is functional competencies, (3:33) which is really about whether or not you’re good at facilitating and convening, (3:38) those sorts of things. And it was really very well accepted by the clientele. (3:45) But then we hit a period there in the early 2000s where people said, is this online? Can I do this (3:51) virtually? I said, I better do something about that.

And I actually did use one of the tools, (3:56) like a SurveyMonkey or SurveyPlanet. And you could do the tool that way. (4:01) Now, I have hired a tech company to actually put it on my website.

And it is now downloadable. (4:07) Anyone can do it. They don’t have to be a client of mine.

It’s actually searchable, (4:11) Yahoo and Google. And it’s called the JSI Opportunity Surveys. And there are now four (4:17) different ones.

So before, there was just the one for the executive. Now there is one for an (4:22) associate level, let’s say someone who doesn’t have direct reports. The executive one is for (4:26) someone who does have direct reports.

But what we’re really excited about, Matt, is the fact (4:31) that we have these two others now that are very unique in that a supervisor and their employee (4:37) now do it. So let’s say it’s a CEO and their vice president. And actually, they will separately do (4:44) the assessment for the one employee, for the vice president.

Let’s just use that as an example. (4:49) And then they will get one report with side-by-side results. (4:54) And is that more of a what do you think about yourself versus what does the other person (4:58) seeing show up? That’s exactly right, (5:00) which is great if you’re looking at a development plan for that person.

So if we use the CEO and (5:06) vice president kind of scenario here, you look at that and perhaps the vice president says, (5:11) in terms of adaptability, I’m not doing that great. I’m going to give myself a two. (5:15) But then the CEO side says, you’ve got a five.

So now the vice president says, (5:19) oh, I don’t have to worry about that anymore. As a quality for a leader, (5:22) I can concentrate on something else. I didn’t know I was actually meeting expectations or (5:26) exceeding them with my boss.

But the opposite can also be true. (5:30) Sure, which I think is what people probably are more predisposed to think is what is going to (5:35) show up. So kind of ironic when you show the opposite where someone thinks that.

How often (5:40) does that show up where somebody thinks lower of themselves on a particular measurement and (5:45) they’re coming in higher? So far, about 50 percent of the time. (5:49) It’s interesting. Usually there’s well in a in a high functioning organization, right? (5:54) And a high functioning team, you’re probably going to see the same almost.

They’re almost (5:59) the same. You might see some variations in some places, but if they’re really on the same page (6:03) and collaborate well, you’re probably not going to see too much of a difference, which is great (6:07) confirmation that you have the right people in the right seats on the bus. Right.

But at the same (6:12) time, I also see that there are those big disparities sometimes. Yeah. And that causes (6:18) it’s a great conversation starter.

And it also helps with the development plan. It helps to (6:24) look at what the expectations really are and just clarity all the way around. It’s a good tool.

(6:29) How does it know how does that stack up to tools that we know that we’ve all seen, (6:34) like the disk profiling tools? So the way this one is different is that actually the questions (6:40) are very different from what you would see with disk or we actually we just did a great. Yeah, (6:45) we did the Acumax profile. Yes, and I’ve never done that before.

So I’d love to talk about that a little (6:49) bit. But it’s different because the questions are different. They’re very specific.

They are around (6:55) and they would give you maybe five different questions that will lead up to an assessment (7:01) around your adaptability or around the fact that you are good at inclusion and diversity or (7:06) whatever it is. The questions are different. Of course, in my research, I had to look at all of (7:11) those various assessments to make sure I was offering something that was unique.

And I find (7:15) that I am great. Yes. Great.

What what kind of drove you into the business of wanting to help (7:22) leaders? I mean, you are so passionate about every time we have sat down together. You are definitely (7:27) in the right seat. Thank you.

You’re doing you’re doing what you were we were called to do. I (7:32) appreciate that. I think it was my early experience working.

I have been in leadership role since I (7:39) was about 24. I really have. And it was an accident.

So when I was in grad school, I went to (7:46) University of New Haven and earned my MBA there. I was in Connecticut. I took a job with a supplier.

(7:52) They were called Ty Communications. They are no longer in business anymore, but they did main (7:58) frames and technical stuff. Right.

And I thought, oh, what a great job. You know, I’m going to have (8:03) this manager of corporate communications and investor relations. What a job.

Right. I’m also (8:09) at the same time going to school full time at that time. So I was working during the day, (8:13) going to school in the evening and on the weekend.

I was really putting it in. And that job shocked (8:19) me because when I walked into it all excited about this big title mat, what was really going (8:24) on is there had been 13000 employees there. And two months before I started, they whittled that (8:30) down to 1300.

And the reason is because they had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection (8:37) and they had been bought by a company in Chicago that is very famous for buying companies that (8:44) are in bankruptcy and then selling off, selling them off in pieces. I had to manage the communications(8:49) around that internally and externally and deal with angry investors. Congratulations.

Yes. Right. (8:56) Well, the good news is that that cut my teeth.

Basically, I am a leader. Yes, it was trial by (9:02) baptism, by fire, trial by fire, leadership development, team building, strategic planning. (9:07) It was everything.

OK, so that was very early in my career. And since that time, when I have worked (9:12) for others before I started this company 14 years ago, I’ve always had to work to use those skills (9:19) that I sort of I want to say forged in that fire so many years ago. Wow.

And so then you were also (9:29) we kind of talked about this a little bit before we got together here on the on the podcast was, (9:36) you know, your experiences in other corporate environments, specifically (9:41) the nonprofit world. Yes. You were very involved at the United Way.

Absolutely. Can you talk about (9:48) that whole because that’s a that’s got some transition in there, too. Yeah, that’s one of (9:53) our T’s here.

Yes, for sure. So and then let’s let’s also in talking about that, let’s let’s (10:01) understand the how that’s kind of helped to shape you. Right.

So you’ve had this trial by fire from (10:07) the you know, from your corporate communications job where you’re thrown right into the deep end. (10:12) And then it really your United Way experience had some of those same attributes there, too. (10:18) It really did.

That was an interesting, interesting role. So I was hired right out of I actually was (10:25) serving as director of communications for Pontiac School District. OK.

And I met the the CEO of (10:30) United Way, Oakland County, in that role. And we served on some committees together. And he came to (10:36) me one day and he said, we are looking for someone to help us with a really big strategic planning (10:41) project.

And I think you’d be great. I want you to go down and meet the CEO of United Way Community(10:47) Services, which was actually United Way for Detroit. Right.

Went down to meet with them and (10:52) they actually created this role for me on the spot. So it was not anything that was part of their (10:57) hierarchy or their their org chart. It was director of strategy.

And the role really (11:03) was to facilitate the merger between United Way Community Services, which was Detroit, (11:08) and United Way, Oakland County. And I did that. It was about a year and that happened.

And (11:17) it was a lot of work, a lot of work, simply because at the time United Way Community Services (11:23) in Detroit had 100 board members and Oakland County had 50. 150 people I had to convince (11:31) to vote themselves out of existence and create what you now know as United Way for Southeastern (11:36) Michigan. Wow.

So we did that in a year. And once the new organization was formed, it now had (11:43) responsibility to Oakland County, Wayne County and Macomb County. And in the structuring of that, (11:49) one of the things that our those board members wanted to make sure happened is that we would (11:54) actually still serve Oakland County and Macomb County with there being great need in Wayne (11:59) County.

Right. So we created these kind of out posts. And I said to them when they said, well, (12:05) we want you to stick on, stick on since you actually finished your role.

I said, I’ll go (12:10) run Oakland County’s operations because I’m from Oakland County originally. And they may feel like (12:15) this was a hostile takeover. And I think I can help with that.

1. So, yeah, that’s how I where (12:19) where was the headquarters then? Was the headquarters moved to Detroit? The headquarters was in Detroit (12:23) because that’s where United Way Community Services was anyway. OK, so that’s why they had that feeling (12:28) of perhaps they’d feel isolated or something like that.

Yes. You really got the chance. This is (12:35) we’re going to mix in some technology here, too.

You got to see the technology change in how that (12:42) affected the United Way. Yes. And how they what they were actually used for.

I mean, the way (12:49) you explained it was that or the way I understood that you explained it was that the United Way was (12:54) more of an aggregator of funds and would would find the appropriate charities to. And I still (12:59) think it still does this right. But where people would normally be predisposed to give the money (13:05) to the United Way, knowing that it would get to the right places as the Internet came came to be, (13:11) people were able to find those charities more directly.

Yes. And almost whatever you want to (13:17) say, bypass the middleman, I guess you could say. Were you around for that? I was right in the (13:22) middle of it, Matt.

Right in the thick of it. So when I started there, I think the revenue coming (13:28) in was about 80 million for United Way. And then by the time I left, it was 40 million.

So it was (13:34) 50 percent of their revenue was cut. So here’s the deal. That’s exactly right.

When we were kids, (13:42) you remember that, you know, we’d have these things where it would come time for United Way (13:45) and we’d all put our little pennies together and they were, you know, a little I think they were (13:49) little boxes or something. Yeah. And that’s because United Way had always been very trusted (13:55) to be the, you know, the distributor of funds.

When you if, say, for instance, your interest (14:01) is early childhood, that’s your interest. Who would know where that’s happening? Where are the (14:06) boots on the ground that need the funds, that need the support? United Way existed to do that, (14:12) right, to identify that. Now, with the emergence of the Internet, where people could say, (14:17) early childhood is my interest.

I think I’ll just, what we say, Google now, but look it up, (14:22) you know, and then they could find the local early childhood organization. All of a sudden, (14:26) people were giving directly to those smaller non-profits, to the people who were in the weeds, (14:32) right? Did we see, and maybe you don’t know this data point, but did we see a growth in the (14:38) number of independent small non-profits pop up at that time too because of that? That I don’t know, (14:45) but I can tell you this. I noticed, and this is my observation, United Way is all over the country, (14:51) then became experts at things that they had not been experts in before.

They were expert (14:59) fundraisers, right? But now, all of a sudden, it was, I think we’re experts in early childhood. (15:03) I think we’re experts in basic needs. I think we’re experts in education, and they had to build (15:09) an infrastructure around that, okay, so that then people would say, yes, I think I will still, (15:15) you know, use United Way or give to United Way so they can give to others.

Because they’re still here (15:19) and doing strong or running strong, so they’ve obviously evolved to what they are today in order (15:25) to overcome that major change. I think so, yeah. So let’s talk about your personal life here.

(15:36) I mentioned that you’re a wife and a mom, and you’ve got some neat interests, and you like to (15:43) travel a bit. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Tell us about your husband and about your (15:48) kids. Yes, I would love to.

So the love of my life, we’ve been together for 17 years now, my husband (15:54) Tony, and we both had practiced marriages before we met each other, okay, and so he has two daughters(16:01) and I have a daughter, so we have three together. They’re stair steps. They’re 30, 28, and 26.

Okay, (16:07) meant to be. Meant to be. It’s just, it was perfect, and we’re a happy little blended family there.

(16:12) We’ve got our, you know, our three daughters, and they’re grown and out of the house, which has (16:17) been kind of fun, but, you know, I miss them. We all got together during COVID. Everybody came home (16:23) during COVID, and the five of us were in the house, and I had the best time of my life.

I (16:27) swear to goodness, it was so much fun to be together. That’s great. That’s great, and you are the, (16:35) well, I’m going to let you give the whole introduction of this.

This is something I (16:39) just learned just a couple of minutes ago, and I’m really excited to have you talk about it. (16:43) Yes, okay. Tell me about, tell me about your history.

Okay, this is, this is good, man. I’m (16:48) glad you’re asking about this. So, one of the things that really has motivated me my entire (16:53) life and in my career has been my family story, which is that my daughter Jordan, (17:01) the youngest of our daughters, my daughter Jordan is, has just finished her first year of law school (17:06) at Yale.

She just finished Yale Law. She’s a full scholar there, and she is the fifth consecutive (17:12) generation of women in my family to be college educated. Wow.

Yeah, yeah. I didn’t even know that (17:18) this was unique because this is just my, my family story. How you grew up.

Yeah, it’s how, you know, (17:24) when I was in high school and people were talking about what they would do after high school, I was (17:28) like, well, aren’t you going to college? You know, because that’s what we, you know, it’s what we do, (17:32) but I will tell you, I was explaining to you earlier, the way I found out it wasn’t really (17:36) unique is I used to teach at University of Phoenix some years ago, and I used to tell the students, (17:41) once you’ve given your introduction, give us something unique about you. (17:44) And once they’d all finished, I would come in with my unique thing is I’m African American (17:49) and fourth generation college educated. And I had one of my white students, a white female (17:55) student come up to me and say, you don’t have to preface that by saying you’re African American (17:59) because that’s unique for anyone.

And I had not realized that until she said that. I just thought (18:04) it was so normal for you and your family. Yeah, I thought it was normal.

But yes, we, we go back. So (18:09) my great grandmother Pearl went to Prairie View A&M in Texas. Pearl McGuire went to Prairie View (18:16) A&M in Texas normal, and she became a teacher.

Her daughter, who was my grandmother, June, (18:22) June Eisen was a nurse. She went to nursing school, got her degree there. My mother has (18:27) her master’s degree in special education from Wayne State.

I have my MBA from University, (18:31) not University of Michigan, University of New Haven, my undergrad is University of Michigan, (18:35) and my daughter is now at Yale. And she went to University of Pennsylvania undergrad. So she’s (18:40) our first Ivy Leaguer, and she’s a double Ivy Leaguer because she went to Penn and now she’s (18:43) at Yale.

And she’s amazing. And I’m in love with her. That’s fantastic.

It is but five generations. (18:50) And Matt, I mean, it, the stories behind all of that are not easy stories. I mean, but yeah, (18:57) five generations.

You were telling me that when when you struggle, you think back to your (19:01) was it your grandmother? Great grandmother. Yeah. And what she had to deal with it.

Was it in Texas? (19:05) Yeah, Texas. Yeah. And that that came at a read that story came to me at a really good time.

I (19:09) always knew about the generations of college educated folks, right. But I was in grad school, (19:15) Matt, at University of New Haven. So I’m in West Haven in my apartment.

And I’m down that day, (19:20) because I’m thinking to myself, I’ve never left home before. I mean, undergrad was at Michigan (19:25) in Ann Arbor. So I mean that my mother could get there in 20 minutes if I had a fever, you know, (19:29) so I didn’t go far.

But University of New Haven now this is far. And I didn’t have family there (19:33) didn’t know anyone. And I called my mom one day.

And I said, Mom, I don’t know if I can hang out (19:38) here. I don’t know if I can stay because I’m, you know, I’m not feeling I’m feeling lonely. (19:42) And she said, Did I ever tell you the story of your great grandmother Pearl? And I was like, (19:45) Yeah, she says, No, no.

Did I tell you the story of what she had to endure? The story. I was like, (19:50) you didn’t. And she told me and she said that, that where she was in school, in Prairie View, (19:58) there was a town next door that was all white.

And some of the folks there did not believe (20:03) that African American women should be getting an education. And she said that very often on (20:10) weekends, the men, some of the men in that town would get drunk. And they would come to the school (20:15) where she was.

And she lived in like a large dorm, like a building. And they would just stand (20:20) outside and drink and shoot at the windows to shoot. And that my grandmother Pearl would have (20:26) to lay on the floor for the weekend.

She said, and then on Monday morning, she would wash her (20:32) face and go to class. And then she said, Joscelyn, can you stay in New Haven and finish this degree? (20:38) What have you done lately? I was like, I think I can. So that story has been a motivator for me, (20:44) even when things are hard, even when they’re scary.

And I’ve shared that story with every (20:48) young person in our family. Now my daughter, my cousins, to give them motivation, and they all (20:54) claim that it really did help them feel brave. What a great pedigree.

And I mean, just what a (20:59) great inspiration story there. It’s good. Yeah.

And what a great thing you can use against your (21:04) kids if they’re ever complaining. That’s fantastic. So you’re also kind of a closeted geek, right? (21:17) I am a huge geek, actually.

Trekkie and Marvel. I judged you by completely different, I thought for sure it was (21:29) Star Wars and something else. I didn’t think you were a Star Trek and Marvel fan.

(21:34) I’m a Trekkie from way back. Okay. Tell us something that proves it.

Okay. Oh, what can I tell? (21:40) Oh, man. I don’t know if I can answer any trivia question that you give me.

I know nothing about it. (21:45) I couldn’t ask you a valid question. Well, I’ll say this.

Better than trying to go and find (21:51) some kind of trivia that people don’t know, I’ll tell you this about why Star Trek is so important (21:55) to me. Okay. Or how it’s important.

All right. I’d like to hear that. I’m actually incredibly introverted.

(22:01) And I teach this when I coach teams or even if I do individuals about the difference (22:07) between being introverted and shy or extroverted and obnoxious. Neither one of them mean those (22:13) things. Introversion just means where you get your energy.

(22:19) But as an extrovert, I could still be obnoxious. You can be. Yes.

And I could still be shy. (22:23) Okay. Yeah.

But we’re not. Sorry. I did interrupt.

That’s okay. But you’re not obnoxious and I’m not shy. (22:29) Yet.

Okay. I’m not going to ever be shy. That’s not going to happen.

(22:34) But I am introverted, right? So I can speak to anyone. I’ve done a thousand people, you know, (22:41) spoken to them. I can do anything I need to do and I’m not shy about it.

But after it’s over, (22:47) I have to go home, pull the shades down and put on any version of Star Trek and I’m good to go. (22:52) I’m re-energized. You’re like an electric vehicle.

I am. Take you home. Recharge me.

Plug you in overnight. (22:57) Yep. Get the recharge going.

I’m recharging. I’m ready to go. And your juice is Star Trek.

(23:03) It’s Star Trek. Any version. I’ll do, you know, the old to the new.

Oh, great. Love it. (23:08) This episode of the BLTNT podcast is sponsored by Auxium, business IT and cybersecurity designed (23:13) to outsmart chaos.

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(23:25) So what else would you like to talk about? What else is going on in your world that (23:32) that you’d love for people to know about? Well, I have been recently talking with people about(23:38) one particular workshop, which is personality dimensions. Can I talk about that? We’ve talked (23:43) about that. Yeah, we’ve talked about that.

You and I, Matt. Personality dimensions is this wonderful (23:49) workshop tool that looks at personality temperament, personality traits, but right, (23:54) it’s about temperament and temperament. I like to say instead of personality, because temperament (23:58) means preferences, your choices.

What is it that you would like to, you know, what do you, how do (24:04) you choose to live your life? And this is a workshop that’s a lot of fun, right? It’s a lot (24:10) of fun, can be anywhere from 15 people to 100 people. I’ve done all different types of crowds, (24:15) but it is the trait disposition tool that uses colors, right? To sort of map out your, what your (24:22) personality is at the time, but it actually is a combination of Myers-Briggs and Carl Young’s, (24:29) the study of Carl, Carl Young’s studies on personality and introversion and extroversion, (24:33) and it has a lot of different flavors all in one spot, right? There’s some other personality (24:40) trait tools out there, but I’ve never seen one that is as complete, as comprehensive as this one. (24:45) I actually had to become certified out of a company in Canada to be able to do this, so I’m (24:50) certified to, as a facilitator level one, to do several different workshops, but that one is a (24:56) fun one.

It’s such a great workshop that the Auburn Hills Chamber asked me five years ago if I would(25:02) do this for their I-LEAD program, which is their leadership development program, companies who are (25:07) members or not members will send their employees to this leadership development program. It’s over (25:11) a five-month period, and mine is one of the workshops out of five. There’s a workshop every (25:16) month, and I did it five years ago, and they keep bringing me back, so I believe this is either my (25:20) fifth or sixth year that I will be doing this for the I-LEAD program at Auburn Hills Chamber, (25:25) and it is an amazing half-day program.

I think you should do it for your team. I may just take (25:30) you up on that. You had also mentioned that you work with, you had, I had asked you, (25:37) what is a story of maybe one of your customers that you work with or clients that you work with (25:43) that you’ve, that you really have some success with? Because my questions to you, because I (25:49) see a lot of different folks that are in strategic coaching, in the testing and assessment world, (25:56) and some of them have really long-standing relationships, others that take this test and (26:01) kind of move on, and you said, boy, my relationships tend to be pretty long-lasting, (26:06) and obviously you have that with your contractors that you use, with the Chamber of Commerce that (26:10) you’re involved with, but talk about this, it’s Covenant Community Care, right? And that started (26:18) off with just literally working with the person who was a new CEO at the time, and then it really(26:25) blossomed.

It did. So can you tell that story? Absolutely. The CEO at Covenant Community Care (26:30) is an awesome leader.

She’s just amazing. When she first came into the role, she’d been there for (26:35) years as the Chief Operating Officer, but CEO was brand new to her, and she hired me to coach with (26:42) her, and we did our coaching sessions. I have a format that I follow that I customize it for the(26:49) person, but I actually have some modules that I use for coaching on influence and negotiations (26:53) and emotional intelligence and personal strategy, and then one on helping them build the high (26:59) performing team, and we did so well together.

She did another contract and another one and another (27:05) one. Then it turns out that she said, I’d like you to come in and talk to the whole organization (27:09) during one of their conferences. I did that and did a workshop for them, personality dimensions, (27:14) is actually what I did, and then I actually looked at her structure because we did some strategic (27:21) planning obviously, and her structure, she actually had a lot of direct reports when we (27:26) first met, a lot of direct reports, and Covenant Community Care is actually a healthcare organization.

(27:32) A lot of direct reports, and we talked about that, about how efficient it could be, and she made the (27:37) decision, yes, let’s restructure. Now she has six chiefs who report to her as opposed to 20 some (27:42) odd people who were reporting to her before, and I also coached them. So I coached her chiefs because (27:47) they all had teams, and I’ve done a couple of other workshops for the whole group.

So it’s been (27:52) now a few years that I’ve been working with Covenant and their great team over there, (27:57) but there are others, and she went to a conference out of state at one time, and she spoke, (28:03) and people came up to her and asked her, where did all this come from? She said, I got this great (28:07) coach. You need to meet her, which was great. I mean, that’s fantastic.

It’s what you want when (28:12) you’re a consultant. Sure. And from that, I have other clients.

So my client in Chicago, who is (28:17) Family Christian Health Centers, they called me up, and I’ve been coaching her now, that CEO, (28:24) and her team, and her folks for years now as well. So most of my clients come from referrals. (28:30) That’s how that works.

Probably a good 90 percent of them come from referrals, and that was one of (28:36) those great stories, but I actually have had long-term contracts with others too. A municipality, (28:41) City of Oak Park, I had many years I worked with them. They didn’t have a communications department(28:45) at all, and I came and I created one for them from scratch.

My MBA actually is in public relations (28:51) and marketing, right? It’s just that I have more experience. You’re a very good communicator, so (28:55) I think we can see that there was some formal education there somewhere along the way. I (28:59) appreciate that.

Or some just innate talent, I’m not sure. A little combination. I appreciate it.

(29:04) Yes, I do. I have clients that I’ve had for years at a time. We just, we keep rolling.

It’ll be, (29:08) and it’s not that they didn’t get what they needed the first time they met with me.(29:12) They like what they’re getting so much that they continue to come back, and time and time again. (29:18) That’s great.

What is your favorite tool that you’ve, because let me rephrase. Let me start (29:26) over and rephrase a little bit here. I’m sensing that you are an aggregator of a number of tools, (29:34) and processes, and philosophies that you’ve encountered through your career, (29:39) and you’ve distilled them down into something that is your brand.

Yes. Can you talk about some (29:45) of those things that you’ve pulled in, and where the value is? Because I can tell you as a business (29:50) leader, we’re on overwhelm of the number of disparate tools that are brought to our attention. (29:56) You know, whether it’s through the business groups that we’re involved in, or just people (30:00) cold calling us or whatever, is I’m constantly bombarded with, you need this, you need to know (30:05) this about yourself.

What are the tools that you’ve taken, and then how have you distilled (30:13) them to really find the value for the leader and for the organization? That’s a great question. (30:19) My favorite tool that I have worked with, and actually I have blended this into my own work, (30:28) is Patrick Lencioni’s work. So, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team was a book that most (30:33) people are familiar with, also did The Advantage, and many other books.

I really, really respect (30:39) Lencioni’s work, and yeah, good stuff. And so, I have my most popular workshop is actually called (30:47) High-Performing Teams, and it takes some of Lencioni’s work, and I’ve actually turned it (30:53) around because, of course, his book was The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. My training is really (30:58) about how do we find what works, right? And now let’s create some sustainability around (31:04) what works for you as an organization.

But it still is looking at those five areas that Lencioni (31:10) talks about, which are about building trust and sustaining trust, healthy conflict, which is not (31:15) destructive tearing down, but, you know, constructive. And let me just say something about that (31:21) before I move on, Matt. Healthy conflict is the one that is most important, and the one that (31:25) actually causes the most conversation when I have these workshops, because people are not (31:33) understanding what that means.

That word conflict, right, throws people off. Sure. But I feel like (31:39) this.

If you don’t have the trust where you can actually give an idea. Let’s say, for instance, you (31:45) and I were in conversation, and we were trying to make a decision. You had an idea, and I had an idea.

(31:49) You give yours first, and I don’t give mine because I say to myself, if I say something different from (31:54) what Matt has said, he might take that as an attack on his idea. And so I don’t open my mouth. (32:00) That’s unhealthy.

For fear of what might happen. You know, it’s funny when people talk about, (32:04) oh, you two fight like husband and wife. It’s like, well, why do husband and wives, (32:10) why can they argue? Well, because they have the foundation of the marriage that says, (32:14) this is here.

Right. Right. And so if they accept that as the constant, then they have the trust and (32:21) the ability to say, hey, you know, I didn’t really like when you did this.

Right. Right. And without (32:26) it being just because you’ve made a comment about something negative doesn’t mean we’re getting (32:30) divorced.

Right. Exactly. Right.

And so in the workplace, we have so many times where we perceive, (32:36) we as leaders especially, are perceiving that conflict didn’t even happen. Right. And the (32:42) employee or someone else is really feeling like, oh my gosh, that was such a terrible interaction.

(32:48) And the other person doesn’t feel like that. Right. And so with the Acumax, the tool that we(32:52) use, that would be the A drive, the high A or the low A drive.

And what do they see? And in disc, (32:57) I think that’s D. Right. And so it is such an interesting thing whenever I talk to others and (33:05) find out what’s the dysfunction? Oh, well, this person thinks we’re in conflict. This other person (33:10) thinks we’re just getting work done.

Right. Exactly. They’re in different places in terms of (33:14) their understanding of what that kind of conflict can look like.

Sure. And what you just (33:18) described too is about accountability too. It’s about holding each other accountable.

Right. That (33:22) healthy conflict is so important because if there is not trust and healthy conflict doesn’t exist, (33:27) the best ideas will never make the table. Correct.

They’ll never make the table. It’ll only be the (33:31) boss. Whoever’s got the strongest personalities is the only one that’s going to make it to the (33:36) table.

Exactly right. So I actually help the team create tools and sustain those tools that help (33:41) them understand the dynamic of this is how we have to communicate and that this is a safe space for (33:47) us to do that. And it’s just wonderful.

So that’s my most popular workshop is actually high (33:51) performing teams. That’s great. I think I use the Lencioni line almost once a day.

Yeah. And that’s (33:56) from the ideal team player. Yes, that’s a good one.

Humble, hungry, and smart. Right. And so I can’t (34:01) remember everything, but I can remember those three words.

Yes. And especially when I’m talking (34:06) to someone that we’re hiring. I mean that’s what we’re looking for all the time.

Yes. Have you had (34:12) experience with the ideal team player? I have. So yes, I have actually used that.

That’s a really (34:19) good assessment tool at the back of the book. Yeah, they give you a bunch of questions and (34:23) everything you ask. It’s really inexpensive for the value that you can get out of it.

I have to (34:30) agree. Now I did do just recently for a client, I did an intervention for conflict. So there was (34:36) a conflict management.

This was unusual. Usually I’m coming in and there has probably been some (34:43) conflict of some kind, but we’re really looking at culture, you know, organizational culture and (34:47) how are we going to shift the culture and what are we going to do. This was there were two employees(34:50) and they were not getting along and they weren’t getting their work done and their boss had had it.

(34:54) Right. So their boss was a director, had had it and said, come in here and help us. Now that’s (34:58) another long-term client.

It was a municipality and I’ve actually done work for them for years, (35:03) but I hadn’t had a contract with them since I think 2021 and he thought of me and said, (35:08) you’re the person we need. We said we wanted to have some outside person come in and (35:12) sort of moderate this whole thing and would you do that. And so ideal team player, we had some (35:18) conversation around that.

I gave them both the book, you know, and we talked about it, but that (35:23) was an interesting one. I actually ended up having one-on-one coaching with both of them and then (35:28) one-on-one coaching with their boss because there’s something to that too, right, to the (35:33) leadership and how that dynamic keeps going and then all of us together. And we actually did(35:40) rules of engagement and, you know, had some good conversation.

How far out are you from that (35:45) engagement being complete? That engagement was completed about a month and a half ago. Okay. (35:52) And so I just sent an email to the boss.

You know where I’m going with this, right? (35:57) How’s it going? Where are we at today? So I’m waiting to hear back to see how it’s going from (36:01) here, but good feedback right away from all three of them separately and together to say this was (36:06) very helpful. Here’s what I learned and they were saying back to me what I was hoping I would hear (36:10) about the progress they think had been made from that. But yes, I would like to know, (36:17) 45 days out, where are we? And I’ll ask again in another three months and see where we are.

(36:21) Great, great. What else would you like to talk about or what questions might you have for me? (36:26) Oh, I have questions for you, man. Oh, no.

I do. (36:31) So Auxium, and I know your folks can’t see it, but Vision made a perfectly clear award,(36:36) the Silver and Gold Awards by the Auburn Hills Chamber. This happens every year in December (36:41) and companies who are members of the chamber are asked to nominate or others are nominating you (36:48) for these awards.

And you actually took this award home, right? This is 2019. Vision made (36:55) perfectly clear. What was it? What vision did you make perfectly clear for everyone? (37:00) Well, so our vision is to create a company that outlives, that’s a legacy company that outlives (37:06) its founders, that’s a destination company for employees and for clients.

And so what that means (37:12) to us is that we’re essentially trying to make what we would consider like a mini General Motors, (37:16) the type of place you could come and work an entire career. But we’ll really know that we’ve (37:24) made it when we have that lineup of people. Like back in the day, remember General Motors, (37:29) somebody would get a job on the line and they’d say, well, can you get me in? Can you get me in? (37:35) Or if they’re an engineer, they’re, can you get me in? When we feel that happening, and we’ve got (37:41) a little bit of it happening today, where we’ve had a few of our employees have brought in others (37:46) from their friend groups and colleague groups.

But when we see that that’s the overarching (37:53) proliferation, then we’ll know we’ve fully made it. But it also started off with the name, (37:58) which my partner who had founded the company came up with the name AU and axiom. So AU is the (38:07) chemical symbol for gold, axiom is rule or something known to be true.

Smooch it together, (38:11) make it make axiom. So the golden rule, treating others how you’d want to be treated. And so (38:16) a combination of the two of those things in terms of what is the vision of the company is to (38:19) treat people properly, but to also create this environment that’s really the playground for (38:28) clients to get what they need and the playground for the employees to get what they need (38:31) for an entire career.

I have to tell you something, Matt, this is as a communications (38:36) person, right? This is my favorite. I mean, just the name, your values, we talked about your values, (38:45) and how there’s three different levels of values. It’s just perfect.

I just love it. So I have to (38:50) tell you that I’ve just been impressed with that ever since I joined the chamber and learned about (38:54) Oxium’s existence. But do your listeners know about your three levels of values? Because I love (38:59) them.

Yeah. So it’s really one core value that we say, right? And I’ll build up to it. So if we (39:06) have the golden rule, which is treat others how you’d want to be treated, and the platinum rule (39:11) is treat others how they’d want to be treated, the Oxium rule is treat others in a way better (39:16) than they expected to be treated.

And so that’s what we kind of come back to is we come back to (39:21) that plus the humble, hungry, and smart. And it’s like, if we have those two things together, then (39:27) we’re rolling in the right direction. We’re rolling in the right direction.

We don’t get (39:29) it right every time, but we try our best. I love it. I absolutely love it.

(39:35) Anything else I can answer for you there? Putting me on the hot seat like that? Yeah,(39:38) I love it. I’m going to put you in the hot seat for sure. I just, I’m very humbled that you even(39:44) asked me to do this.

So thank you for that. It’s my pleasure. I appreciate those words.

(39:48) I really am. No, every interaction I’ve had with you, I say there’s this poise that you have,(39:53) which we talked about your posture being much better than mine. And this articulation of(39:58) really showing deep empathy and that you’ve put the time in or at least the heart into(40:08) any of the different things that we’ve dealt with together, right? Where you’ve, like on these (40:14) different committees, the thought that you put into the questions that you ask or the thought (40:18) that you put into the opinions that you have are not shooting from the hip.

They’re well thought (40:25) out and they’re empathetic is the main overarching piece that I would always have. You’re always (40:30) thinking the other person. I really love that because that is the number one quality of elite (40:36) when I’m doing coaching.

Empathy is number one. That’s great. Yeah.

And sometimes you have to (40:40) look at balancing that. You’ve got it. So great job in what you’re doing.

Appreciate you. Well, (40:44) thanks for being with us. This has been fantastic.

We’re going to have a bunch of links, I’m sure, (40:49) to a lot of the different items here that we’ve discussed. And so people can get in touch with (40:54) you for any of your services and to just even pick your brain a little bit, hopefully. Thank you.

(40:59) That’s fantastic. All right. Well, thank you.

Thank you.