Episode 01

Matt Loria (0:00 – 0:46)

Welcome to the BLTnT podcast. I’m your host, Matt Loria, serving up real stories of business, life, technology, and transformations. You’ll hear from interesting people about big changes from career shifts to life-altering decisions and the innovations that help make it all happen.

It’s about sharing those light bulb moments, pivot points, challenges overcome, and the journeys that inspire us to think differently. If you’re on the lookout for insights to propel you forward, stories that resonate for just a bit of inspiration on your next BLTnT move, you’re in the right place. Let’s dig in.

I’m here with Ingmar Korstanje, President, Marlo Beauty Supply. So, thanks for being with us.

Ingmar Korstanje (0:46 – 0:47)

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Matt Loria (0:48 – 0:54)

This is our inaugural video podcast for the BLTnT podcast. So, thanks for being our first victim.

Ingmar Korstanje (0:54 – 0:54)

No pressure.

Matt Loria (0:55 – 1:01)

None. None at all. You look great on camera.

You know, guys without hair always do, I’ve been told.

Ingmar Korstanje (1:02 – 1:04)

Yeah, I’d say themselves coming from a guy in the beauty supply industry.

Matt Loria (1:04 – 1:08)

That’s always an interesting thing. What do you always tell me about it?

Ingmar Korstanje (1:08 – 1:12)

The first ingredient is water. The second ingredient is marketing.

Matt Loria (1:13 – 1:16)

No, I meant your comment about no hair is safe.

Ingmar Korstanje (1:17 – 1:19)

Oh, right. That’s true.

Matt Loria (1:20 – 1:22)

So, hey, can you tell us a little bit about what Marlo Beauty Supply does?

Ingmar Korstanje (1:23 – 1:34)

Yeah, I always tell people we’re kind of like the hardware store to the trade. And as a distributor brand, we’re very similar to, I’d say, Costco slash Ace Hardware.

Matt Loria (1:35 – 1:35)

Okay.

Ingmar Korstanje (1:35 – 1:49)

Where, you know, when you walk into Costco, you know what you’re going in for and then you walk out with an extra pal, something you didn’t see coming. And then when you go to Ace Hardware, there’s always, right, they have what you need. They’ve got helpful people there.

And it’s a nice antithesis, maybe, against Home Depot or Lowe’s.

Matt Loria (1:49 – 1:55)

Gotcha. So, you serve people that own salons, right? Chains of salons as well?

Yep.

Ingmar Korstanje (1:56 – 2:17)

The one related to biggest differentiator with us as a compared to some others that are in the industry is that we do only sell to the license trade. So, that’s going to be a licensed cosmetologist, which can mean hair, nail, skin, and spa. And we do require registration with the active cosmetology license number in order to be able to access our corporate website.

Matt Loria (2:18 – 2:22)

And that’s anywhere in the United States or globally? Where do you ship to?

Ingmar Korstanje (2:22 – 2:32)

We do ship to all 48 states. We have a couple of customers in Alaska and Hawaii, and then we do have some export accounts, but it’s primarily the business is focused in the US, mainly for a logistics reason.

Matt Loria (2:32 – 2:50)

Okay. And when you and I first met, you had kind of a campus over in Ferndale, Michigan, with a couple of different buildings. And now you have built a much larger distribution center.

Can you talk about kind of your footprint, the why behind all that?

Ingmar Korstanje (2:50 – 4:08)

Yeah, we were in a position back in 2007, where we actually divested a good portion of our business. So we were in one location at the time in Ferndale, which we had been in since 1994. And then we added a second location next door about 2014 due to growth.

And then around 2021, we added another location around the corner, which is a content creation studio. So that was kind of the makeup of our campus. And served our service really well during the time of 2007 to 2020, but then we were really fortunate to be e-com ready.

When COVID hit, and so our business grew pretty significantly in the span of about 12 months. So we are completely whacked out of space. But being in Metro Detroit, as we all know, when things are decent to better or good with automotive, automotive tends to take everything.

So from space to good talent to transportation, et cetera. So it was a really arduous process to find new space. But we were fortunate as interest rates started to trickle up a little bit, local and national developers got a lot more accommodating to support smaller footprint distribution centers.

Matt Loria (4:08 – 4:11)

Okay, great. And what is this distribution center in square footage?

Ingmar Korstanje (4:12 – 4:16)

60,000. Okay. Okay.

Which is great for a lot of small products. Awesome.

Matt Loria (4:16 – 4:37)

Awesome. And you went ahead and I mean ever since I’ve known you, you’ve always been a tech forward sort of guy. So you’ve early on invested in ERP warehouse management systems, higher end infrastructure.

Did you did the same at the new facility as well?

Ingmar Korstanje (4:37 – 5:14)

Yeah, we, you know, I tell everybody, especially at our company, that everything with regards to the move from the space to the hardware investments to the racking. And it, everything was done in the spirit of the run to 2030 and 2035. So I would say our IT footprint in Warren, our new facility in Warren was probably the largest investment out of anything that we made.

But it’s in the same spirit of the fact that at the end of the day, even though we’re a distributor, we’re truly an e-commerce company that happens to distribute beauty supplies. Yeah. So you’ve got to have that tech backbone in order to support that.

Matt Loria (5:14 – 5:28)

When we first met, I mean, I remember, I don’t even think you explained your company as a beauty supply company. You said, I mean, e-commerce when we met, because we met through some common friends. And that first introduction was, you know, I’m Ingmar and I’m in, I’m in e-commerce.

Ingmar Korstanje (5:29 – 5:52)

Right. Well, what we’ve really tried to strive to do is build out a platform for distribution. Whether that’s in beauty supplies or could eventually be in other verticals as well.

And so that it’s kind of going back to the design of the facility in Warren. We needed the space, we needed the room to grow. And so along with that, we needed the IT backbone to support us.

Matt Loria (5:53 – 6:13)

Okay. On the system side of things, though, so, so I recall that a few years back, you were, you were running on a platform. A platform was working decent for you, but then you decided to go out and have a whole custom-made software system application to run the, run the organization.

Ingmar Korstanje (6:14 – 7:13)

Yeah, it’s, I think so many other folks running small, medium-sized businesses, I’m sure yourself and other friends that we know that we’ve got to know through, through our network is you’ve got to be constantly inquisitive when it comes to IT and you’re planning for it. And so the system that runs Marlob.com now, for all intents and purposes, is a custom-built e-com platform, of which the code we sourced from a large kitchen or restaurant distributor out of California. And it was interesting as we were going through the kind of the homework to figure out if this was going to work.

And speaking to that company and their CIO and head of e-commerce, selling to a restaurant manager, chef, or restaurant owner, it’s not a whole lot different than selling to a salon owner or stylist. They’re nail tech in terms of how they order. And so it was really interesting going through that conversation with, with RW Smith that kind of the light bulb went off.

And so we purchased a copy of their code with exclusive distribution rights for the beauty supply industry.

Matt Loria (7:14 – 7:14)

Interesting.

Ingmar Korstanje (7:15 – 7:18)

Interesting. So restaurant salons close enough.

Matt Loria (7:18 – 7:24)

Yeah, right. I would have never thought that. But most people have here and everybody eats.

Ingmar Korstanje (7:24 – 7:27)

Right. We got that going for us.

Matt Loria (7:28 – 7:51)

Let’s back up. You got into this business after meeting your, what would be your future wife, correct? Correct.

Okay. Can you tell us this story? Because this is a kind of an interesting family business, divestiture, M&A sort of story.

You’ve got a really cool story.

Ingmar Korstanje (7:51 – 9:37)

It’s a pretty long marathon, but it all started in 1990s. Marlo and I met at Michigan State University as undergrads. And then we both went to Chicago and then coincidentally both worked in logistics and transportation there for a number of years.

And then we were in business school and it was right at the, really at the advent of e-commerce starting. And obviously we’ve been together for a number of years by that time and got married in 1998. And speaking a lot of times as my in-laws would come out to visit us out in Arizona quite a bit.

You know, e-commerce and distribution were getting closer and closer to reality from a business standpoint. And I grew up next to two entrepreneurs and I was always taken aback by their hard work, but also a lot of the freedom that they had in terms of their decision making. So I came grew up in a Fortune 500 family and I think maybe in the late 90s that wasn’t quite what it was all cracked up to be.

I’m not sure that it is today either, but and I was probably a little bright-eyed and bushy-tailed at the same time. But I didn’t see that my father-in-law really had much of a secession plan because none of the kids were truly in the business at the time. And so him and I had the initial conversation about, you know, potentially coming to work with them.

And when we came back in 2000, we immediately took Marlo Beauty to Marlo Beauty dot com. And within about 12 months, we were the fastest polar product out of his distribution center. So, you know, today Mike can find the power button on his desktop, but back in 2000, I’m not so sure.

But if there’s one thing that he understood was the power of sales and throughput. So by 2001, he got pretty curious as to what we were up to.

Matt Loria (9:37 – 9:44)

Sure, sure. So at that time, he had retail storefronts as well, correct?

Ingmar Korstanje (9:44 – 10:12)

Yeah, so Mike started his career in the health and beauty business with Johnson & Johnson. And somewhere along the way, Kate saw the niche of being in the salon and beauty supply business. And started off right out of the gate with three stores and over time grew that to 14 locations.

And so he was really the value based beauty supply distributor for the salons in the metro Detroit area from 1981 into the early 2000s.

Matt Loria (10:12 – 10:17)

Okay. And then what was the impetus to divest of the stores?

Ingmar Korstanje (10:18 – 11:54)

There was a big roll up of family-owned distributors that was happening in the industry, which happened with so many distribution businesses regardless of category starting in the 2000s. And we were competing against publicly traded, Sally beauty supply. And they were making it pretty evident that we were the last loan hold out during that roll up.

And they were making it a little uncomfortable. And so from a strategic perspective, I was looking at it saying, hey, we were growing quickly on the national e-commerce side of things, but we were in a bit of a foxhole here in Detroit. And to Sally’s credit, they were always very fair when they bought distributors in a specific market.

They didn’t overpay, but they didn’t underpay. And we’d always had a very good relationship with the leadership of Sally’s. And so I would say I probably brokered the sale between the CEO of Sally’s and my father-in-law because they were pretty friendly.

So I think that hard time negotiating with each other. Okay. So I got them within a range.

And then over a couple of conference calls and a Turkey sandwich, we came to an agreement that, and they really did want Detroit to themselves. And we really wanted to go 100% e-comm. And so the closing, which we did over the phone, their head counsel actually said, he’s like, you know, we’ve probably purchased 50 or 60 companies in our time as Sally’s.

And they said, this has by far been the most pleasant acquisition we’ve ever done.

Matt Loria (11:54 – 11:55)

Interesting.

Ingmar Korstanje (11:55 – 12:02)

Yeah, it was super cool because everybody wanted, got what they wanted to a large extent. And so after that, it was just good smart business.

Matt Loria (12:02 – 12:18)

Interesting. And when, when did you feel like you had to nudge Mike along? I mean, that had to be pretty uncomfortable for him to have a model that he had been used to for all those years.

And then to just say, okay, here’s my, here’s my son-in-law who’s got this idea.

Ingmar Korstanje (12:18 – 13:23)

Yeah, it definitely took some guts, but I think he believed in our collective vision. And it wasn’t like we were starting from scratch. We had a bit of an engine going.

And so I think at the same time, you know, going back to what he noticed in 2001 was that he understood sales, which as a distributor, that’s pretty much your day job. And the writing was on the wall with the distributor roll up that was happening. It was going to be hard to sustain, you know, to be a good local supplier up against a national distributor with, you know, immense immense buying power.

But at the same time, I give him a lot of credit because the stores really were his, were his baby, if you will. But in our, one of our lines that we just would not cross was what was going to happen with all our team members at our store locations. Every single one of them had the opportunity to continue their career with Sally’s.

Even if they were going to close locations, they were given opportunities to remain with Sally’s in other store locations, which was super important to us.

Matt Loria (13:23 – 14:43)

Interesting. I, you know, it’s fine. I was actually just going to jump into kind of family life and talking about working with your wife and father-in-law, you know, kind of a little bit deeper.

But let’s push off on that and kind of keep going with what you’re talking about, which is your commitment to employees. Mind if I tell a little story about the introduction that I made for you. So it must have been a few months ago or maybe six months ago at this point in time.

I had come across a young man who, who needed employment, kind of restarting life, if you will, had a criminal record. So I called a few people, Ingmar being one of them, and I said, you know, do you hire people with, with criminal backgrounds? And Ingmar said, yeah, you know, we’re a second chance organization.

So you ended up hiring the guy. It ultimately didn’t end up working out from my understanding, but the, but the chance that you gave him and the chance and what you told me about some of your other employees that you’ve given these opportunities to really stood out to me in a number of ways. So can you talk about, you know, why you do that, talk about some of the ways that you manage that?

You know, and what’s the why behind it for you?

Ingmar Korstanje (14:43 – 16:22)

Yeah, I think I have to give Mike a lot of credit to my father-in-law because I always, when I got into the business in 2000, I noticed that he had an immense amount of empathy for his employees and the team members that came in. And I always noticed that for the most part, he worked for them. You know, he would do his rounds to all the store locations and he would come back to the, to the distribution center just exhausted because he’d just gotten, you know, gotten scolded for everything.

He needed to go back to headquarters and fix. But I always, you know, left a big effect on me in terms of, you know, the way that he built the company with the team that he had. And along the way, you know, it’s people that had come into the business, you know, maybe that had a few missteps earlier in life that, you know, they needed a second chance for an employment perspective and that left a big effect on me.

And so, you know, all those people that were in that situation when I joined the company are still with us today. So 23, 24 years later, had you closed the door on those people, you know, from a hiring perspective, there’s some of our most valuable operational team members at this point. So, you know, when you called, I don’t, I didn’t even flinch, like, yeah, heck yeah, right?

We’ve got to give people an opportunity and obviously there are different levels of backgrounds. You know, if you took one misstep and that’s one thing, you know, went off a cliff, that’s another. So there’s limits to it, but obviously, especially with a lot of younger people, I think in today’s world, you’ve got to be open-minded.

And that’s just from what I’ve seen from, you know, the experience that we’ve had from some of our long-term team members.

Matt Loria (16:22 – 17:08)

Sure. You’ve carried that torch too. I mean, essentially, I feel like what you’re saying is, you know, servant leadership is really in the DNA of Marlo having started with Mike and then being carried on through you.

But the other interesting thing about you is that you’re dressed quite nice today in comparison to some of the ways that I sometimes see you, because you have no problem going from the boardroom to the warehouse. You know, there’s days I see you with a dew rag on and, you know, up at four in the morning, kind of no-nonsense sort of person. I think your people that have a huge respect for you because you are out there sweating alongside of them.

Ingmar Korstanje (17:08 – 18:13)

Yeah, for sure. I think probably the outside of my neighbors I grew up next to because I could remember getting up in the morning and seeing their cars already leaving and it was before sex. So they always left a big impact on me.

And then the gentleman who owned the first company I worked for out of Michigan State was a freight brokerage company in Chicago that’s become world famous from a workplace perspective. And you could not be Paul Loeb into the office. Just couldn’t.

And he lived an hour away. So, and we tried. We started at seven.

And so sometimes we would try to get there at six. He was there. You’d get there at five thirty.

He was there. He was there. And so, and it’s still with all of us alumni from that company.

Whenever we see each other, we always talk about that and the work ethic that he imparted on us. And so I think it kind of sets the tone if you’re an operations heavy industry or business. You know, if you’re expecting your team to hustle and grind an eight-to-ten-hour shift, it’s just my own personal philosophy.

You better be the first one in the door.

Matt Loria (18:13 – 18:16)

Good stuff. You also go to bed early.

Ingmar Korstanje (18:17 – 20:07)

To make sure you get up early. Yep. That was really came out of when COVID hit.

You know, it came at us so fast at, you know, according to the state laws of Michigan, we shut down our business. And I shot back the warehouse about three times. Then I kind of got mad.

I was like, you know, everything that we’ve done since 2008 to today, right, we’ve broken our back building this business. And we were very, very in tune with our customer base. We know that our customer is short on inventory for good reason, right, because inventory is money.

And we know that there’s an immense, immense amount of independent beauty professionals out there that do services at home or in a salon suite. What have you? And at the time, the main competitors, the large national distributors were very brick and mortar based.

And so we knew that the salon and spa professionals were going to have a troubling time getting access to inventory. So we turned the business back on after, of course, getting the green light from our attorneys that we weren’t necessary. We service a couple parts of the industry that were deemed as necessary.

So we went back to work. And as soon as we did, we really quickly picked up on the fact that there was a tidal wave coming at us. And so for April, 2020 to about August, 2020, we were going seven days a week up at four, going to bed at nine p.m. And just went, I think we had two 28 day stints where we worked every day. Wow. And so, yeah, when you’re, when you’re going at that pace, you, you know, you have no choice, but you have to go to bed early.

Matt Loria (20:07 – 20:08)

Sure.

Ingmar Korstanje (20:08 – 20:11)

And ever since then, it’s kind of stuck with me.

Matt Loria (20:11 – 20:17)

That’s great. And so, no, just like it was a Paul. Nobody’s beaten you to the office.

Ingmar Korstanje (20:17 – 20:29)

Yeah, no, for the most part. And, you know, now there’s a, there’s a bit of a morning crew. We call it the Breakfast Club.

I’m usually the first one there to the point where if I’m not, usually I’ll get a text from one of the fellows.

Matt Loria (20:30 – 20:30)

All right.

Ingmar Korstanje (20:32 – 20:41)

And then Charlie Tracell and Steve show up at six. Monique shows up about 6:20. So breakfast is around 6:30.

Matt Loria (20:41 – 20:41)

Great.

Ingmar Korstanje (20:42 – 20:52)

And it’s fun. We always chat a little bit about shop and chat, chat what’s coming at us for the day or what’s happening in sports and family. And then, you know, once the shift starts to seven, everybody’s, it’s the ground running.

Matt Loria (20:52 – 21:43)

Sure. That’s great. This episode of the BLTnT podcast is sponsored by Auxiom, business IT and cybersecurity designed to outsmart chaos.

And powered by Juniper Networks, automate your network with Juniper Networks and the missed AI platform. The world’s first AI driven wired and wireless network. You kind of touched on the subject of really knowing your customer.

You know, in your business, you do get to focus on kind of one customer type, essentially, right? And for the most part, that customer, what you had just said was that customer doesn’t have a lot of money to keep a lot of inventory typically. And that makes a lot of sense of why more of a just in time or close to just in time sort of readiness from your perspective is essential to serve them.

Ingmar Korstanje (21:43 – 22:52)

Yeah, for sure. I think that’s a lot of people who are working on it. I think it’s a lot of people who are working on it.

I think it’s a lot of people who are working on it. I think it’s a lot of people who are working on it. I think it’s a lot of people who are working on it.

I think it’s secondary to what’s going in the box that’s getting shipped out. You know, I say we nerd out over corrugated and tape labels and strength of tape and the strength of boxes because we’ve got one chance every time that our customer orders to re impress her. And I say her because 95% of our customers are women, which I also think is fantastic.

And they’re a business for themselves. So if they’re trusting us to help them run their business, it doesn’t get any more personal than that. At least not to me.

Matt Loria (22:52 – 22:53)

Sure.

Ingmar Korstanje (22:53 – 23:29)

And I strive to communicate that to our entire team. And I think it goes back to, you know, the kind of the culture at Marlo’s is every team member is in business for themselves. Whether you’re an order picker, whether you’re on the digital team, whether you’re in our professional customer care team.

We’re trying to set it up in such a way where every group within the business and every individual in the business has a very special part and making sure that that customer is going to get that order after she places it because she’s got 10, 12, 15 services coming up this week or this weekend. She’s going to use those supplies. So everything’s got to go perfect.

Wow.

Matt Loria (23:30 – 24:15)

You know, I’ve got a little bit of experience. I’m not myself going to need salons, but my wife goes to our niece who owns her own salon. And it’s a it’s a two person salon set inside of a larger building with with many suites with many many suites.

What be so that that’s one little view I have into the, you know, into that world of beauty. Is that has that been a big change for you to see these smaller facilities pop up or, well, large, large footprint, multiple business owners within side of them. Has that changed your business at all?

Ingmar Korstanje (24:15 – 25:45)

Yeah, I actually think it’s been a huge asset to us as well because they’re they’re all independents. And there’s about four or five leading national salon and spa suite brands that are out there. We do quite a bit of business with customers that are in all those brands.

And so for us as well, it’s also great for customer acquisition simply because in a typical suite, there’s 20 to 25 individual suites with either an individual operator or in the case of your your niece where there’s two people in a suite. And so anytime that one of our boxes, which has the model logo and blazing down the side shows up in that in that foyer or in the inventory control room. It’s just another opportunity that another 20 tenants are going to see our box and being inquisitive as to who we might be.

But yeah, the suites really came on about a decade ago and it’s become a very important part of the business. And it’s great. It’s great for an option for a stylist or a professional who has a great book of business that wants to be a little bit more self-employed and standing on their own two feet.

And that being said, there’s still, you know, you go all around anywhere in Metro Detroit. You see, you know, thousands and thousands of salons. So it’s just nice that if you want to be in the salon for the camaraderie and the continued training that a salon can offer, that’s great.

But if you’re also in a position to open up your own shop and go into a suite that’s now that that business model is there, it’s also available for that customer.

Matt Loria (25:45 – 26:01)

Great. So we’ve so you kind of just told me, you know, that’s been the last 10 years that that model has been kind of out there. What do you see in for the next five to 10 years or as you talked about, you know, 2030 to 2035.

What where’s your industry going?

Ingmar Korstanje (26:01 – 27:26)

Well, it’s, you know, like we were talking about before we got started when when we look at categories like restaurants and salons right there. They’re necessities at this point in the United States. And so they’re going to exist.

And I think that because of the massive roll up of family-owned distributors that occurred from, I’d say, around 2005 to 2015. It’s created three large national mega distributors and and they’re good competitors run by good people, but they’re big. Right.

And so, and typically in any time you have a roll up of distribution in any industry that creates a vacuum for service. You know, if, and that’s really what we’ve picked up on is focusing on every customer that places an order as a small business owner. And if we continue just to service her needs, whether it’s with a credit on an order, if it’s a return because something got damaged.

It’s filing a claim with UPS on her behalf. Doing all the little things that will support her regardless of she’s in a sweet and a salon, you know, has a chair and her basement or garage. It’s making sure that we stay focused on that trades person’s needs from a service perspective and irrespective of what location it is that they choose to work in.

And I don’t, I think for the most part over the next, you know, five to 10 years, that’s going to hold true.

Matt Loria (27:28 – 27:51)

Great. So let’s go back to the whole family recipe here. So, you know, very interesting that that son-in-law comes along and ends up essentially running the business of your father-in-law Mike.

Ingmar Korstanje (27:51 – 27:52)

Yeah, from time to time.

Matt Loria (27:52 – 27:54)

It doesn’t have to. It’s right on the building.

Ingmar Korstanje (27:54 – 27:55)

Right.

Matt Loria (27:55 – 27:59)

And then you have a son. Right. How old is your son?

Ingmar Korstanje (27:59 – 28:00)

He’s 19.

Matt Loria (28:00 – 28:02)

Okay. And what’s he doing right now?

Ingmar Korstanje (28:02 – 28:04)

He’s a freshman at McGill University in Montreal.

Matt Loria (28:05 – 28:10)

Okay. And any interest on his part right now that he’s showing towards family business?

Ingmar Korstanje (28:11 – 28:53)

I don’t, I don’t know to be honest. We’ve never had that conversation. I think you’ve got to give any generation their own path and their own timeline.

I think it could be a conversation at some point. She does that as our son gets into his, gets out of college and goes, starts his career somewhere else. But I think that’s super important for any family business is to go out and earn your paycheck first on your own and, you know, see what the world is like.

But he’s, he’s got a lot of interests and he’s majoring in geography and geographic systems. He’s fascinated with transit systems. So I don’t know.

I don’t know that beauty supplies is in his future, but you know, you never know. Okay.

Matt Loria (28:53 – 29:06)

So let’s talk about those. So how is that, how has being in a family business weighed on in the positives and negatives with, with you, with your relationship with Mike, especially with your relationship with Marlo and the fact that you guys work together?

Ingmar Korstanje (29:06 – 31:51)

Yeah. I think the key is you, you absolutely have to keep nepotism at bay. And that can be in many different forms.

But for the most part, I think we’ve handled it extremely well. Well, working with Marlo’s is as easy as it comes because she’s a lot brighter than I am. You know, graduated at the top of her class at Michigan State in the supply chain program.

So it, you know, in transportation and distribution and the focus of supply chains. So us running a distributorship together isn’t too much of a stretch. So I do think that we really are a two person leadership team in that aspect.

And it’s, I would say it’s, it’s very conducive for our relationship. You know, there’s times where we both know when it’s time not to talk work, you know, if we’re going on a Sunday walk or if we’re traveling and it’s not for work, you know, we kind of find that ebb and flow. So it’s two separate businesses within Marlo beauty supply.

I focus primarily on sales operation and finance and Marlo runs our digital team and being 85% e-commerce. You know, her and her team just do an amazing job at finding us new customers. And so it’s really two separate businesses where I’m for all intents purposes running almost a third party logistics operation and she’s running a quasi-digital agency.

And so we really need each other just for both of us to succeed. And we see that in supporting each other and supporting each other’s teams. And then, you know, I think is what I’ve seen with so many family operations and most of my friends are entrepreneurs are in family businesses.

I think just because you have so much more in common with some of the challenges you face on a daily weekly basis. And there’s different schools of thought in terms of generational handover in terms of the business. And I think there was a prevailing thought for a long time that, you know, the next generation should force out the older generation.

And myself and my close friends that are all in family businesses, we think completely counter to that. I had lunch with Mike out in the conference table in the distribution center on Friday. And, you know, I mean, he’s been in business for 50 years for himself.

Like, that’s invaluable to someone in our position to have that as available as council. Absolutely. And so I actually had an idea that I wanted to pitch him on.

And, you know, I don’t know what my father realized. I think he’s 83 or 84. And it’s completely sharp.

And had some love to love to where I was headed, but had some asterisk that he said, well, make sure you think about these things. You finish your sandwich and hit the road. So that’s a pretty good gig.

Matt Loria (31:51 – 31:58)

That’s great. Right. So he’s actively in the building.

How would you say his involvement is with the business overall?

Ingmar Korstanje (31:59 – 33:03)

Well, when we moved the business last year, I think he was kind of a man without a home for a little bit because we were so focused and stressed on getting the move out of the way. But we’re redoing the offices in our former building. And so which where Marlo, the digital team will be based out of, along with the content creation studio.

I think he enjoys being in Ferndale more than coming into South Warren. Sure. And so Mike, when we had the before of the move, you know, he loved coming to work.

We loved having him there. Right. You could always go pick his brain.

And he always said, like, if I’m in the way, you let me know. We said, well, we will. But it’s, you also have to keep an open mind.

I think with this generation of business owners, I’d be curious to get your take on it too, not only with yourself, but with other clients from Auxiom. People don’t necessarily want to retire and don’t really need to. Right.

Mike put in his time. Right. So if he wants to work five hours a week, great.

If he wants to come in and hang out for 18 hours a week, perfect.

Matt Loria (33:03 – 33:03)

Sure.

Ingmar Korstanje (33:04 – 33:13)

Because again, he’s got so much experience that you’re going to pick up on a nugget or two anytime you hang out with him or not and just go have a good sandwich and enjoy each other’s company.

Matt Loria (33:13 – 33:13)

Sure.

Ingmar Korstanje (33:14 – 33:22)

So, you know, when you’ve been with, I mean, I’ve been, Marlo, I’ve been together since 1990. So I think the quasi adopted me at some point in the 90s.

Matt Loria (33:22 – 33:24)

So when you have that, you’re not just the son-in-law anymore.

Ingmar Korstanje (33:25 – 34:13)

Yeah, at that point, you’ve got such a close relationship where, you know, and it works because the relationship’s so amazing. Well, with our whole family, right, with Mike and Joyce, with Marlo and I, with her aunt, uncle, cousins, right, it’s a pretty tight-knit family that they all grew up across the street from each other. So it’s kind of like a pretty classic story.

So when you, when you walk into that, first thing that you notice is that it’s pretty special. Sure. And you have to keep that at the forefront of anything that comes in business.

And that’s not to say that we didn’t have our disagreements over the 25 years, 23 years. You know, we had a few epic battles, but nothing that you couldn’t still go to each other’s house and have dinner for. So you just have to keep it all in perspective.

Yeah, that’s great.

Matt Loria (34:13 – 34:38)

Yeah, it’s, well, so, I mean, it sounds like mutual respect has been the name of the game all the way through. I mean, obviously, Mike respects your and Marlo’s opinion, respects your work ethic, respects, you know, your accomplishments and even any risks you’ve taken that maybe didn’t, didn’t pan out. But you, you’re offering the same right back.

So very balanced relationship there.

Ingmar Korstanje (34:38 – 35:01)

Yeah, you just got to be super humble. And then it’s also, it’s fun too to watch, you know, my laws, like so many folks in the winter, they go down to Florida for a few weeks here and there. They’ve been doing that for a long time and, you know, still to this day, he’ll come back after being down there for a week and he’ll have gone and canvassed some competition stores and give me a couple of things to think about.

God bless marketing tell. Yeah, so that’s great.

Matt Loria (35:02 – 35:29)

So you talked about, you talked about, you know, surrounding yourself with entrepreneurs. You had asked me the question of, you know, what do I see in terms of succession planning from people that are that are in business since we serve so many different types of businesses in the company that I run. It’s very interesting to see, you know, some people don’t want to, don’t want to even have the conversation about a succession plan because I don’t think they want to question their own mortality.

Ingmar Korstanje (35:30 – 35:30)

Sure.

Matt Loria (35:30 – 36:22)

And then others are just so exceptionally purposeful and whether that be that they’re building their organization to sell to private equity or to a larger firm or that they have succession planning in place. And so it, you know, I can’t say that I see one or the other, but where I, the ones I do feel the most for are the ones that, that have no, have no plan or no, you know, no real end goal. And they’re just going through with horsepower and kind of ignoring the fact that at some point they will, you know, something will, will force them to not be able to, to work, right.

And so I think that when you find that right balance, you know, you find someone like Mike who says, okay, look, it’s in great hands. I’m going to kind of come and go as I please. It doesn’t require me any longer.

I mean, he’s really built the best of all the worlds, right?

Ingmar Korstanje (36:22 – 38:34)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. When I look at our, you know, 10-to-15-year run, and that’s obviously taking in a huge grain of salt that the team that we’ve got, right continues to want to be there.

But it seems like we’re on the right path with the folks that we’ve got in specific positions. And we’re really, really fortunate that when you take Marlo and I out of that group, the average age of the people in important positions, whether it’s in purchasing, whether it’s in operations and digital, I think the average age is around 34. So they’ve got a really nice runway ahead of them.

And so we want to be considerate of that as we continue to build the company and, you know, give them an opportunity, whether it’s, you know, from a profit sharing perspective. You know, I’ve seen also seen some distributors go down the ESOP mindset or, you know, Phantom equity kind of set up. And I think, you know, in distribution, it’s, at least from my perspective, that’s the category I’m in, you know, our business is 24/7.

Kind of going back to the logistics background. And so, you know, there’s rarely an hour, even in the middle of the night that goes through where we aren’t getting orders in. And so, you know, we’ve built a bit of a machine.

And so I think if we, if we set it upright for that generation that I just mentioned, you know, they were extremely accommodating as well when it comes to things with time out of the office or remote work flex work. That, you know, one of my favorite things over the last couple of years that happened, we have a younger team member that’s just had her second-year anniversary in the fall. So Marlo and I were doing her two year review together.

And at the end of it, I asked her, I said, Hey, you know, what else, what else is it that we should be doing, you know, for your generation of team members and the set and the other, just trying to pick her brain as to, you know, how I’m doing in my day job. And she said, Inge, she’s like, what are you talking about? And I’m like, why, what?

She’s like, most of my friends hate their jobs. She’s like, this isn’t even like coming to work.

Matt Loria (38:34 – 38:34)

Wow.

Ingmar Korstanje (38:35 – 38:38)

And I was like, Oh, so we’re good? She’s like, yeah, we’re fine.

Matt Loria (38:38 – 38:38)

Wow.

Ingmar Korstanje (38:39 – 38:39)

See you next week.

Matt Loria (38:40 – 38:42)

That had to be the best thing you could have heard.

Ingmar Korstanje (38:42 – 38:42)

It was good.

Matt Loria (38:43 – 38:43)

That’s awesome.

Ingmar Korstanje (38:43 – 39:29)

Because you know, even as much as you do with, you know, the up-and-coming generation, you’re right there. And we’ve also been extremely, I don’t know if the right word is proud, but impressed with our young hires, right, with their knowledge base and their interest level in terms of learning about the, about the company. Maybe there’s something to that with being in Detroit and not being automotive.

And then our category is actually, you know, it’s pretty fun. Sure. So like we just attended the Michigan State marketing communications career fair and, you know, we had over 200 applications filled out that day.

It was super impressive and Marlo Katie that we’re at the event. We’re beyond blown away by the talented young people that are graduated from from Michigan State this year.

Matt Loria (39:29 – 39:46)

Yeah, I mean, certainly being in the Detroit area, you stand out as a, as something different, right? You don’t have an auto, you’re not relying upon the automotive. You’re not relying on defense, you know, any of the other kind of typical distribution organizations that we have around here.

Ingmar Korstanje (39:46 – 39:46)

Right.

Matt Loria (39:46 – 39:48)

So yeah, you stand out quite a bit.

Ingmar Korstanje (39:48 – 39:49)

Yeah, for sure.

Matt Loria (39:50 – 40:10)

You also, I noticed and I have Jackie here with us pulled up on the, on, on line, saw your, that you’ve created Marlo Beauty Studios. Is that a recent creation? And can you, can you talk about that?

I know you’ve been highlighting it lately, but can you tell everybody a little bit about that?

Ingmar Korstanje (40:10 – 42:54)

Sure. So like with many B2B trades, continued education is a big deal in our industry. And so I think going back to like 2017, one of our larger supply partners, the Wella company, which is a big couple.

We have a number of big brands from them, including Wella, Sebastian, OPI. They’ve got an entire production studio in their Calabasas headquarters in California. And so we, because we’re so ahead of the game with it as it related to e-commerce, we wanted to do the same as it came to digital education or continued education from a digital footprint.

And so we partnered with Wella out at their studio to start creating a lot of educational content that we’re streaming through Facebook lives and different, different mediums. And then that mushroomed into doing some more of that locally here in Detroit. Well, we were renting out salons that were closed on a Sunday or a Monday.

Those salon owners are smart. They knew that we needed the space. So they would charge a fair sum.

And we were just fortunate that right around the corner from our two locations in Ferndale, a perfect-sized location became available. It’s about 4000 square feet. And so we looked at what we were spending on an annual basis, running out salons in the area.

And this was a little bit more of an investment, but at the same time we would have access to a 24-7. And so we created Marlo Beauty Studios, not only to continue doing what we’ve been doing the last couple of years, but really, really to build on it. And it’s been an absolute wonderful opportunity to engage with local stylists, local spa professionals.

We’ve hosted a handful of events there, so it’s just a nice meeting space. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier with regards to the suites. I’ve noticed the conversation that I’ve had with a number of professionals when we’ve hosted events there that a lot of them are in suites.

So it can also be a little solitary. Right, so when you’re in the salon, it can be a little overkill in terms of the amount of discussion you’re having, whether it’s professional or not. But then once professionals transition into the suites world, that’s one thing maybe that they are missing a little bit, is that camaraderie and ability to- They’re a little closed off in each of their separate suites so they don’t get that camaraderie in community.

Yeah, and then also when we take on a new brand, perfect example, we launched a new brand here in March. It’s pretty well known in the Midwest, but it was new to us. And so we had two of their educator stylists come into the studio last week, Sunday and Monday, and created all kinds of really good content, both for social media and for Marlobeauty.com.

Matt Loria (42:54 – 43:00)

Are the local folks getting to come in and actually try out some new product as well?

Ingmar Korstanje (43:01 – 43:23)

They can. It depends on what we’re doing for the event that day. Okay.

This was primarily for content creation, but we’ve hosted a number of different groups over the last year since we got the studio up and running. And they like to come in and play with the products. It’s literally, it’s a full-blown working salon with a lot of technology in there as well.

Matt Loria (43:24 – 43:32)

Sure, sure. Do you actually help salons to learn how to market their businesses as well?

Ingmar Korstanje (43:32 – 44:25)

Yeah, but it’s been interesting. I think we’re constantly learning from them. Right.

I think that I’m not sure that there’s another trade out there that is voraciously using social media as the beauty industry is. And so, you know, we work with a number of, I don’t even know that I would call them influencers. They’re just really good technologists that happen to also be salon or spa professionals.

And so, a lot of times when we have host people at the studio, as much as we’re learning from them, they’re learning from us. And so, it’s a great way to pick up on little tidbits of, you know, because there’s 250,000 salons in the United States and several million licensed professionals. And so, and they’re great at using technology for, you know, attaining new clients and scheduling and things of that nature.

So, it’s been a great win-win for both sides.

Matt Loria (44:25 – 45:04)

Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Let’s talk a little bit about your kind of work-life balance because, obviously, you’re up early.

You go to bed early, you know, very dedicated to your business. And I know you’re very dedicated to your son as well, you know, traveling with him and with Marlo. Talk about your travels.

Talk about, you know, I think if somebody was to look at you from the outside looking in, they’d say, oh my gosh, all that guy does is works. But I know that you enjoy a good glass of wine, you enjoy a nice trip and getaways. How do you balance things and can you talk about that a little bit?

Ingmar Korstanje (45:04 – 46:58)

Yeah, I think, first and foremost, it all comes down to the technology, which works out well that we work together. So, that was not a motivational plug. And because the business does run 24-7, you have to take a step back and come up with a system, not only for yourself, but also for your team.

That allows that to work, you know, in tandem with the way that the business is going to flow. And so we’ve done that. Our director of operations, I’m there super early.

He ends up typically on an average day closing up the facility. So, and the same thing with the different people on the operations team. And the nice thing is because the business is so digital, you can be accessible and the business can be accessible to you from anywhere on the planet.

You know, I just did a trip through the Netherlands and my son in March, which was fantastic. It was kind of like a tour of the homeland. And I contacted support to make sure that my access in, you know, from IP addresses within the Netherlands, we’re going to be able to get onto the network.

And so they made that change for me for the time I was there. And so, just the way that my son and I travel together, we take a little bit of a mid-day siesta, which was great because I was six hours ahead, which typically would be relatively close to when we were getting up and running here. And, you know, I would say maybe once or twice a year, I’ll put the laptop and phone away.

But we’ve also been blessed with an amazing young team, like I mentioned, that, you know, again, it, I don’t, if I feel the need to de-stress, I’ll go figure that out. And for the most part, you know, my ability to leave the office and go travel or, you know, be away is possible because of the team that’s available to, that works with us. And also with the technology backbone that we’ve set up to accommodate that.

Matt Loria (46:58 – 46:58)

Great.

Ingmar Korstanje (46:59 – 46:59)

Great.

Matt Loria (47:00 – 47:04)

What are some of your favorite places to travel? I know you mentioned you were in the Netherlands and that was, that was great.

Ingmar Korstanje (47:05 – 47:43)

Well, Casey and I like to go just about anywhere we’ve never been. So we like to pick off different places. Now I was, I’m, my whole family is from the Netherlands.

So I’ve been there plenty of times. So, but there was plenty of places in the Netherlands that I’d never been. Simply because growing up as a kid, we would always land at Schiphol Airport and go to my grandpa grandparent’s house every time.

And so, you know, we like to, we’ve got a good program. I’m in charge of logistics and finance. He’s in charge of strategy.

So we come up with a game plan and then I figure out the logistics and I literally, I’ll walk out of the, you know, Airbnb or the hotel door and he just takes me out of tour.

Matt Loria (47:44 – 47:44)

Wow.

Ingmar Korstanje (47:44 – 47:49)

Yeah, it’s fantastic. Wow, that’s cool. And Marlo likes to join us now and again, but she says we move a little too quick sometimes.

Matt Loria (47:51 – 48:03)

That’s great. You mentioned to me very often, you remind me that you’re Dutch. And so that background being of Dutch origin, what does that typically mean to you?

Ingmar Korstanje (48:05 – 48:05)

Pragmatic.

Matt Loria (48:05 – 48:06)

Okay.

Ingmar Korstanje (48:07 – 49:09)

I think it’s interesting because when I moved to this country, when I was four, and I was born in France, and so I spoke a little French and I spoke a little Dutch, but I didn’t speak any English. And lo and behold, my, both such my grandparents got the biggest kick out of the fact that out of all the places in the world, their kids, which are my parents could have ended up as in West Michigan with hundreds of thousands of other Dutch people. So, which was actually, you know, probably looking back on it was kind of comforting just the fact that we got to know a lot of people that had the same background as us.

And so I think that pragmatism, and I think it really was interesting in this trip, for a case, I had to go see some of the things that are very, very, very typical Dutch in terms of building out the dyke systems and you look at the history of the way that the Netherlands has developed over centuries, it’s absolutely fascinating. And so you can just see that that shines through with, you know, with that nationality of just being extremely pragmatic. Interesting.

Matt Loria (49:10 – 49:53)

You also mentioned, you know, kind of who you surround yourself with. Obviously, we hear people tell us, you know, we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with. I came to meet you through a friend, a common friend, Jason Napolitano, was introduced also to Bill Grisynia, another friend of yours.

Heath, some other folks, Ryan Fogelberg, all of these guys, really solid people, all very successful. Can you talk to me about, you know, how you think you gravitated towards that group at Michigan State is where we met most of these guys, I believe?

Ingmar Korstanje (49:53 – 50:44)

Yeah, and I think also, I’d say about half of more from undergrad and then the other half were just by getting to know other very smart, capable people, just being here in Metro Detroit. And because I was, you know, European, grew up in West Michigan, I didn’t really have any hard strings attached to Detroit. You know, so when Detroit was going through a little bit of the challenges, let’s say from the 2000 to 2010, you know, you travel nationally and people are like, oh, you’re from Detroit, you know, it’s too bad.

I’m like, no, you should visit it sometime. You’d be surprised. And I was always surprised, like, the level of talent and the brain trust that’s in Metro Detroit.

So, you know, when you’re at an event or you’re at a dinner party and you meet somebody of a specific skill setter, that’s a CEO of a multi-hundred dollar million dollar company. You should pay attention. Sure.

That person could probably teach you something.

Matt Loria (50:44 – 50:44)

Absolutely.

Ingmar Korstanje (50:45 – 51:07)

And I think because we’re in such a different business at Marlo Beauty than exists in Metro Detroit, you know, I always took it as an opportunity to learn from others. You know, what Bill was focusing his time in energy on, you know, the challenges that Heath maybe is having because he’s another family owned businessperson fourth generation.

Matt Loria (51:07 – 51:08)

Right.

Ingmar Korstanje (51:08 – 51:31)

So, and vice versa. Right. I think that as much as I gained from them, you know, they’ve come in to visit our business as well.

And so, you know, I think that’s the one thing is small to medium-sized business owners and managers. You know, you don’t have typically have corporate development programs. So you got to build one yourself and a lot of times that’s done through, you know, just good networking.

Matt Loria (51:31 – 51:42)

Sure. Are there any other networks that you’re involved in? Entrepreneurs’ organization or VISTAGE or anywhere else that you’ve kind of sought out for those.

Ingmar Korstanje (51:42 – 52:50)

I think at my, you know, we had kind of interesting chapters during the last 15 years, probably starting really with divesting the store division. And then, you know, we had a pretty good run up until, you know, prepping the business to be come before COVID. And there’s, of course, there’s never a great time right to take that time out and join one of those organizations.

But I think for myself, maybe sometimes the windows of opportunity just kind of miss based on where we were at with our business and family life. Which is probably one thing that I would look forward to if, or I would, you know, for younger people on our team would highly suggest that the business continues to scale. Just because I’ve had so many friends, including yourself, that have been involved in some of these organizations, and it’s just such a nice opportunity to learn even more.

So, but, you know, I’m fortunate whether it’s VISTAGE, whether it’s YPO, EO, if you’ve got friends that are in all those organizations. And so, you know, on occasion, if I do feel like I need to pick somebody’s brain about something, you know, there’s a pretty good network to choose from.

Matt Loria (52:50 – 53:12)

Sure, sure. Have you leveraged any of the other, I mean, let me back up and say this a slightly different way. Is there a book or a coach of sorts?

You know, even if somebody you’ve never met, maybe you’ve just read their book that you really say, wow, that person has influenced me or that system has influenced me that you make a remark of?

Ingmar Korstanje (53:12 – 53:48)

Yeah, I mean, I think my wife and son crack up that as much as I watch sports, but I really watch sports more from the coaching perspective. I was fascinated how, you know, one person can take over a team and completely, you know, change the culture. And I think that to a large degree, as we are going through the changes that we are going through with changing the nature of our company, you know, I’ve depended on a lot of examples like that in order to be able to take a company that was, you know, done business one way for 25 years and I was going to go completely get turned on its head.

Matt Loria (53:48 – 53:48)

Yeah.

Ingmar Korstanje (53:50 – 54:18)

So, you know, I look at a lot of like the coaches that have come from different sports. And then obviously, right, there’s no shortage of unbelievable entrepreneurs that have come around the last 15, 20 years, you know, primarily from the tech sector, you know, whether it’s folks from PayPal or folks from Stripe. You know, Amazon, I mean, the list is just endless.

So there’s just a treasure trove of great articles to read about people running different parts of those amazing businesses to learn from.

Matt Loria (54:18 – 54:19)

And you read a lot?

Ingmar Korstanje (54:19 – 54:25)

I read a lot of articles. I don’t know if I don’t have the attention span for a book. I’m working on that.

Matt Loria (54:26 – 54:35)

Yeah, me too. I’m big into summaries, book summaries and articles. That’s where I get most of mine.

My ADHD doesn’t allow me to finish too many books.

Ingmar Korstanje (54:35 – 54:39)

And I love a good long drive so I can flip on a handful of podcasts.

Matt Loria (54:39 – 54:39)

Same.

Ingmar Korstanje (54:39 – 54:47)

Same. How we built this or, you know, those different business background podcasts are, I think, are fantastic.

Matt Loria (54:47 – 55:01)

Yeah. Yeah, they’re great. Hopefully we’ll build this as well.

So, well, thanks for your time here. We appreciate you being here. I mean, I appreciate you being the first guest of the podcast.

Ingmar Korstanje (55:02 – 55:23)

No, it’s been great. I think it’s, I think you guys are onto something here. And I think, you know, when I look at what you guys have built at Auxiom and they’re such an important partner of ours, again, because IT and e-commerce are hand in hand together.

You know, I think you guys are going to have a nice runway with the podcast. And I know just based on your diverse client base should be, make for some great episodes.

Matt Loria (55:23 – 55:38)

Great. Thank you. Yeah, we actually, so this episode is sponsored.

All episodes will be sponsored by Auxiom. But this episode also is actually being sponsored by Juniper Networks as well. So, that was really nice of them to join the mix.

Ingmar Korstanje (55:38 – 55:40)

Excellent. So, thanks for having me.

Matt Loria (55:40 – 55:45)

All right. Thank you. Ingmar Korstanje from Marlo Beauty Supply.

Thanks for being here.